Pledge of Allegiance

[kaisersozei]

I went to my daughter's freshmen class academic awards ceremony today (she received an academic letter for a full year's worth of A's & B's, as well as a certificate of excellence for her performance at the French Congrès. ) Anyway, there were a couple hundred students & parents in the auditorium and to start the ceremony, we all recited the Pledge of Allegiance.

It's been a while since I've said the Pledge in a group that large, and I couldn't help but reflect that the cadence of the Pledge is exactly the same, everywhere you go, regardless of what group is saying it. It's been exactly the same for the past 40 years since I learned it.

I pledge allegiance
to the flag
of the United States of America,
and to the Republic
for which it stands,
one Nation
under God
indivisible
with liberty
and justice for all.


Everybody knows exactly how long to pause between the words and phrases. Nobody ever said that it has to be recited that way, it just is.

I found it kind of comforting how some things--thankfully sometimes the small, seemingly unimportant things--don't change. Just thought I'd share.

Thanks for sharing.

I'm glad people still do, I've heard some schools do not recite the pledge of allegiance and that pisses me off.

[G G]

thanks.

[Bruzee]

Great story!

[MadAl]

Though the phrase "under G-d" wasn't in the original pledge (it was officially added in 1954 by Eisenhower supposedly in reaction to Communism).

[taltos]

Originally Posted by MadAl

Though the phrase "under G-d" wasn't in the original pledge (it was officially added in 1954 by Eisenhower supposedly in reaction to Communism).

It was added by President Eisenhower at the request of the Knights of Columbus.

[akakirby]

Thanks for sharing!

[MadAl]

Originally Posted by taltos

It was added by President Eisenhower at the request of the Knights of Columbus.

Saw that on Wikipedia, also found this explanation at answers.com: The change is usually ascribed to a cold-war attempt at differentiating the United States from officially atheistic Communist countries.

[taltos]

Believe what you want. Answers.com is incorrect. Don't want to get into a pissing contest over this though.

[The Professor]

Actually ... you're both right. There was, indeed, an extended campaign by the KofC to add "under god"; but it was largely unsuccessful. Furthermore, it was articulated in a context of anti-communism and a resistance to atheism, which was seen as linked to communism.

It wasn't until Eisenhower was persuaded *by someone else* (i.e., not the KofC) that a Republican senator introduced legislation to alter the pledge. It was (a) knowledge of Eisenhower's support of such legislation and (b) the general anti-communist political context that enabled the legislation. The KofC played a role; but they aren't directly responsible.

Trust me. I'm a doctor.

PS, I hope I don't regret posting in this thread....

[Starscream]

My kids say it every morning at their school, but we no longer do at the high school level.

[TanithT]

Originally Posted by Darrell

I'm glad people still do, I've heard some schools do not recite the pledge of allegiance and that pisses me off.

I would support saying the Pledge in schools only if all religious references in it were removed, or taught as being optional or flexible. Our nation was founded as a reaction against religious intolerance, and for religious freedom, and that is a principle that deserves upholding.

It just ain't right to force somebody else's kids to say words that are against their family's basic beliefs, no matter what those beliefs are. There really needs to be a way to respectfully salute the flag without doing this. It is right to teach kids to salute the flag, but not right to force them to do it in the name of a particular religion. Despite the fact that "God" refers more or less accurately to the single deity in all of the various flavors of Judeo-Christianity, it does NOT cover religions entirely outside of this umbrella, nor does it respect those families that are atheist or agnostic.

Fundamentally, respect and allegiance for our nation are independent of any symbols or words we mouthed as kids, probably while we were mostly thinking about how to hit the kid in the next row with a spitball. Either we teach our kids those concepts in meaningful ways or we don't. Just repeating simple words over and over again can otherwise turn meaningless and empty, especially for children who are not going to understand the concepts in the Pledge unless they are taught them well. The issue is not whether we're getting kids to say the words, but whether we're doing a good enough job teaching them the meaning.

I really like the OP's intent and will leave this thread with that memory.

Originally Posted by ahc4353

I really like the OP's intent and will leave this thread with that memory.

I get myself in trouble enough around here, I'm outta this thread before it gets ugly.

[Bruzee]

I can't believe this turned ugly. Wow.

[The Professor]

Originally Posted by Bruzee

I can't believe this turned ugly. Wow.

With all due respect, I don't think it turned ugly at all. It *could* still; but it hasn't yet. Hopefully it wont....

[MadAl]

I don't think it turned ugly at all, either. Did I misinterpret something? Did I post something unintentionally ugly?

Sorry

[csbrewfisher]

Originally Posted by TanithT

I would support saying the Pledge in schools only if all religious references in it were removed, or taught as being optional or flexible.
It just ain't right to force somebody else's kids to say words that are against their family's basic beliefs, no matter what those beliefs are.

Wow, I guess you wouldn't teach the Declaration of Independence either, or even let them see it. Yikes!

Under God is simply meant as a higher power than ourselves and that we should be guided to be better people throughtout our daily existence.

But the real point is in TanithT's last paragraph. Do we still teach the meaning of those words or are we producing people that take but never give back. Your God is your God by whatever name you call him/her/it. This was based on simpler times when religion was a "good" thing.

Have we, are we becoming a nation of sheeple or are we creating educated citizens......Sometimes you have to wonder.

My girls while still in Grade school understand that no matter where you came from, what background, what religion, you are an American first and all things else second. And that is something we have started to and maybe have even lost as a nation.

I am agnostic. I would like the the pledge to read differently but it is an institution in this country that should be upheld. I signed my name on the blank check written the government via the U.S. Army. I don't have to believe in the politics, or religions invovled.
I had to believe in something greater than myself in order to protect people's right to disagree, be heard, and vote for their elected officials. So all are entitled to their opinions, but if I'm wrong here the intent was take pride in your country and that in a time where everything is up to interpretation, somethings remain solid and part of tradition. I'll rifle up again if they asked me to, let's just hope the coming generations are willing to do the same when the time comes.

Lest we forget the small white headstones that fill the hillsides of our great nation no matter what our personal beliefs.

Okay I'm off my soapbox. Just struck a nerve if you know what I mean.