Should Penn State get the Death Penalty?

[E.J.]

Originally Posted by Stephen

No, we live in the internet age. If what happened at Colorado came to light in the manner it did at Penn State, you bet your ass people would be up in arms. And frankly, I'm not about to say that one man comitting heinous acts being covered up by a few is worse than several men comitting heinous acts being covered up by a few, but that's just me.

Seriously, how crass. So MULTIPLE college athletes who rape women (including their own freaking teammate) simply, "make a mistake.." I'm sure the ten women (at least; only ten came forward) don't share your sentiment.

So done with this conversation.

Please show me 10 rapes, kid still playing, cover up... I'll wait....

[E.J.]

I'm not sure I ever seen a convicted rapist(happen at a school, play again at that school) play college football again...

[E.J.]

But again, I'll wait for your information....

Two years would satisfy me!

[ASU Maduro]

I don’t think PSU deserves the Death Penalty, but the sanctions need to be a hair below that. If it is not more severe than recent NCAA sanctions, it would be a slap in the victim’s faces. Ponder this: college football is a business, and if this happened in a true business environment, not only would the persons responsible would be punished; the company would feel the pain, MONEY. And how can the NCAA indirectly limit the schools ability to make MONEY, sanctions through bowl appearances, and stripping of scholarships.

[jcruse64]

Originally Posted by jonumberone

I'm not in favor of any punishment for Penn State!
While it was a heinous crime, and the cover-up is reprehensible, those involved are no longer involved with the program.
Punishing Penn State football will only hurt the students and slow the rebuilding of a program, that is desperate to heal.

I've heard that argument a LOT in the last week or so, and am pretty tired of it. I heard one guy on Sirius radio use this reasoning, saying that it's not right to further hurt the school, hurt the students who love the school, hurt the fans who love the school and program and would have to miss out on games lost, hurt the people who make a living from the program in some way (think vendors who sell at games, etc). Yeah, that would hurt them SO much more than Sandusky was allowed to hurt those poor kids Give me a break!!!

Using that line of reasoning, almost NO programs should ever receive NCAA punishment then. I'm a UK Wildcat B'Ball fan from way back. When Eddie Sutton's program got in big trouble in the late '80's, the program lost big time. Eddie and his son Sean (who was the one who was supposedly taking tests for Erik Manuel), in the meantime got to move on to OK State to continue coaching/playing with no such punishment. I believe Manuel finished college at a NAIA school, while UK lost scholarships and tournament opportunities. This punished the athletes, fans, students, and all those connected with the UK program that made money from it (vendors, etc). And it SHOULD have been punished. The program was doing wrong, got caught, and had to be punished. Those who ran the program, coach included, were part of a culture that felt it was above it all. Harsh punishment was needed, as much as I hated to feel the repercussions as a fan.

The issue at Penn State may not have been one where improper activity was knowingly conducted by those in the program and/or running the program to directly and improperly help student athletes/staff personally or give the program a competitive advantage. But the way those at the top (including Paterno) handled things with Sandusky allowed him continued access to all things Penn State Football, which he used to continue his evil, and the covering up of his activities by the CULTURE of Penn State leadership (if the Freeh report is correct) kept the Penn State Way untarnished to the public view, which kept the recruits coming in, along with student, alumni, and corporate support. This IS a program issue on this side of it, and would be one area where the NCAA should be looking to level sanctions to the football program because of the way Sandusky was handled by Penn State. Because Penn State leadership covered this issue up, they received improper benefits in recruiting and support of the program. Think that's a weak argument? I'd say they had much more benefit from covering this up (while it stayed covered up) than those OSU kids got from trading for tattoos. Did the NCAA let THAT coverup go unpunished???

I realize that the student athletes were nowhere involved in this, and it sucks for them. But this became all about the program leadership doing anything they could to cover the evil up to protect The Penn State Way. There was more concern shown for Sandusky than for any of his victims. The program has to be punished for this, whether those responsible are still there or not. The culture HAS to change, especially in light of what that culture did in the face of such horrible evil. Given what I'm still hearing and reading since the Freeh report broke, the culture is still fully in place.

[King James]

Originally Posted by jcruse64

I've heard that argument a LOT in the last week or so, and am pretty tired of it. I heard one guy on Sirius radio use this reasoning, saying that it's not right to further hurt the school, hurt the students who love the school, hurt the fans who love the school and program and would have to miss out on games lost, hurt the people who make a living from the program in some way (think vendors who sell at games, etc). Yeah, that would hurt them SO much more than Sandusky was allowed to hurt those poor kids Give me a break!!!

Using that line of reasoning, almost NO programs should ever receive NCAA punishment then. I'm a UK Wildcat B'Ball fan from way back. When Eddie Sutton's program got in big trouble in the late '80's, the program lost big time. Eddie and his son Sean (who was the one who was supposedly taking tests for Erik Manuel), in the meantime got to move on to OK State to continue coaching/playing with no such punishment. I believe Manuel finished college at a NAIA school, while UK lost scholarships and tournament opportunities. This punished the athletes, fans, students, and all those connected with the UK program that made money from it (vendors, etc). And it SHOULD have been punished. The program was doing wrong, got caught, and had to be punished. Those who ran the program, coach included, were part of a culture that felt it was above it all. Harsh punishment was needed, as much as I hated to feel the repercussions as a fan.

The issue at Penn State may not have been one where improper activity was knowingly conducted by those in the program and/or running the program to directly and improperly help student athletes/staff personally or give the program a competitive advantage. But the way those at the top (including Paterno) handled things with Sandusky allowed him continued access to all things Penn State Football, which he used to continue his evil, and the covering up of his activities by the CULTURE of Penn State leadership (if the Freeh report is correct) kept the Penn State Way untarnished to the public view, which kept the recruits coming in, along with student, alumni, and corporate support. This IS a program issue on this side of it, and would be one area where the NCAA should be looking to level sanctions to the football program because of the way Sandusky was handled by Penn State. Because Penn State leadership covered this issue up, they received improper benefits in recruiting and support of the program. Think that's a weak argument? I'd say they had much more benefit from covering this up (while it stayed covered up) than those OSU kids got from trading for tattoos. Did the NCAA let THAT coverup go unpunished???

I realize that the student athletes were nowhere involved in this, and it sucks for them. But this became all about the program leadership doing anything they could to cover the evil up to protect The Penn State Way. There was more concern shown for Sandusky than for any of his victims. The program has to be punished for this, whether those responsible are still there or not. The culture HAS to change, especially in light of what that culture did in the face of such horrible evil. Given what I'm still hearing and reading since the Freeh report broke, the culture is still fully in place.

You, and others in this thread, have perfectly valid points that make a lot of sense. We will just have to agree to disagree. While I agree Penn State should face great penalties, I still don't think the NCAA is the proper enforcer in this case.

[jcruse64]

For criminal acts perpetrated, no, NCAA has ZERO jurisdiction, and thus, no teeth to bare. But WRT the program's leadership covering up to save the face of the Penn State Way and protect the football program and Paterno's rep at all cost, yeah, the NCAA should be involved; that IS within its jurisdiction, IMO.

Give you another scenario: gambling is illegal in many states. If a program in a non-gambling state is caught up in a point-shaving scheme, or some other gambling scheme, and students and staff are involved, there are going to be legal repercussions involved. But given the consequences from the athletics and competition standpoint, would not the NCAA also have to get involved here as well and level punishment???

You're probably right; we will agree to disagree on this one, and I respect your right to your viewpoint, as well as any others on here. I will say this; even though I love the UK Cats, it will not surprise me if something gets flagged in Coach Cal's tenure that will bring down the pain on the B'Ball program. If they get caught and the facts show they cheated in some way, even if it means vacating wins and a title, as much as I dislike the NCAA powers-that-be, I would stand behind sanctions we get hit with. But I don't want to hear ONE WORD about UK getting what it deserves from ANYONE who stands against Penn State NCAA penalties on this issue. Just my ; your mileage may vary.

[E.J.]

Joe Schad is reporting that the NCAA will announce tomorrow(Monday) they will penalize, but not with the "death penalty.". Penalty will most likely be Bowl appearance &/or scholarships.

[kelmac07]

I personally believe that if the NCAA decides to impose punishment...they should allow the football players (as they were not involved in this heinous crime) the ability to transfer, while losing no eligilbility. They should allow them to transfer and start playing for their new school right away. While I agree the school needs to be punished in some form or fashion...I don't believe the NCAA should be the one imposing punishment, but if they do...the student athletes shouldn't be the ones who suffer.

[E.J.]

Originally Posted by kelmac07

I personally believe that if the NCAA decides to impose punishment...they should allow the football players (as they were not involved in this heinous crime) the ability to transfer, while losing no eligilbility. They should allow them to transfer and start playing for their new school right away. While I agree the school needs to be punished in some form or fashion...I don't believe the NCAA should be the one imposing punishment, but if they do...the student athletes shouldn't be the ones who suffer.

Though we disagree on the NCAA's responsibility to step in here with sanctions, I am 100% in agreement that the Student Athletes should have the ability to get an outright release from their commitment to the school and be allowed to play at whatever NCAA institution they choose w/ financials(assuming they were offered elsewhere).

I'll go a step further, even without NCAA sanctions, these Students Athletes should be allowed immediate transfer to another institution without penalty due to the perceived stain of PSU. If they didn't want to play under that cloud, they shouldn't have to.

[jcruse64]

Originally Posted by E.J.

Though we disagree on the NCAA's responsibility to step in here with sanctions, I am 100% in agreement that the Student Athletes should have the ability to get an outright release from their commitment to the school and be allowed to play at whatever NCAA institution they choose w/ financials(assuming they were offered elsewhere).

I'll go a step further, even without NCAA sanctions, these Students Athletes should be allowed immediate transfer to another institution without penalty due to the perceived stain of PSU. If they didn't want to play under that cloud, they shouldn't have to.

+2; right with you on that one. This was all a leadership failure, nothing on the student-athlete at all, and they should be given every chance to continue their opportunities unabated at another school. They did nothing to deserve a cloud over their heads; Penn State leadership, in effect, hurt them also, though nowhere near what happened with those poor boys.

[bobarian]

As was the case with SMU, reports are that the athletes will be allowed to transfer without penalty or sanction.

[smitty81]

I think the sanctions were pretty fair. I do believe it's going to basically kill the team for a few years.

No post season games/bowl games for 4 years.
Scholarships went from 25-15 for 4 years.
Students may transfer immediatly and still play.
School must give up 60 million dollars.
A vacation of all wins dating to 1998 & The career record of former head football coach Joe Paterno will reflect these vacated records.

[BigAsh]

An example was definitely made...

[Taki]

Originally Posted by BigAsh

An example was definitely made...

Couldn't agree more...

[King James]

It'll be interesting to read what part of the NCAA Manual they used to to impose the penalties (if they said it in the press conference, I missed it)

[smitty81]

Originally Posted by King James

It'll be interesting to read what part of the NCAA Manual they used to to impose the penalties (if they said it in the press conference, I missed it)

Read this. Not exactly what your looking for, in fact, seems they are kind of beating around the bush about giving a direct reason.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/...ns-dating-1998


Here are some other things I missed.

With the wins from 1998-2011 vacated, Paterno drops from 409 wins to 298, dropping him from first to 12th on the winningest NCAA football coach list. Penn State will also have six bowl wins and two conference championships erased.


The Big Ten will also sanction Penn State. The conference has called an 11 a.m. ET news conference to announce to league-related penalties

[King James]

Found this article, too.

‎"NCAA president Mark Emmert gained approval from the board of directors for the penalties. The board is made up of 22 college presidents and chancellors" ... "Emmert said Penn State has signed a consent decree in regard to the penalties"

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaaf--...ild-abuse.html

[Blueface]

Tremendous spanking to send a clear message.