Third Annual Fantasy Football for Stakes and the Troops

[chaase321]

Originally Posted by JenksAnejo

YTD Troop Bets

Chaase321 owe's 5 troop sticks. (Chaase321 vs. JenksAnejo 9/2/12)

Week 1

Coach Deg owe's 5 troop sticks. (Coach Deg vs. Mattso3000)
Stephen owe's 5 troop sticks. (Coach Deg vs. Stephen)
Sofa man owe's 5 troop sticks. (Coach Deg vs. Sofaman)
Mkarnold owe's 5 troop sticks. (Coach Deg vs. MKArnold1)

Originally Posted by JenksAnejo

Anyone want to go against me on any of these spreads for a troop 5er?

9/13 8:10 ET At Green Bay -5.5 Chicago
9/16 1:00 ET At NY Giants -7.5 Tampa Bay
9/16 1:00 ET At New England -13.5 Arizona

I'll take New England to score more than 13.5 more than Arizona.

Originally Posted by chaase321

Don't forget this one too jarrod

Mkarnold down another 5er for the troops

Also, sorry to bring this us again, but did you make sure to get Mark's 5'er he owes on the list? He played me in the first week for a troop 5er

[Stephen]

Just an observation, but with the contents of the pass leaning considerably ISOM, it'll be difficult for some of us simpletons (this guy) to fully enjoy and participate if a strict nc for nc and cc for cc is adhered to. If maybe the pass was initially more balanced or the restrictions lessened (while leeway is assumed it is also currently restricted) it wouldn't be an issue. Ultimately this is Scott's pass and he's generous enough to seed it with his personal stock, so he can decide how he sees fit.

In short, I just don't want to ruffle any feathers.

[shilala]

Originally Posted by chaase321

Looks like a hell of a list Scott!

The rules look well thought out as well. The list of CC's if fantastic

Do you know the order of shipping yet?

I'm working on that now, Cole. It's going to Stephen today because he's ready.
I need some more input on the rules. I was texting Stephen and he mentioned the lopsided cc to nc ratio in the box, and that we'll probably need to relax the "cc for cc, nc for nc" rule. I agree with him, it's just a very difficult thing to do. We need ideas on how to implement that fairly.
I also need to know "how many smokes can a guy put/take?" We have nothing in there about that.

Mainly, you guys need to know this is OUR pass. I'm just looking over it to get it started. Yeah, I have some smokes invested, but that really means nothing. Shortly this will be everyone's smokes and I won't have any more in it than anyone else, and someone else will likely take care of the pass and need to adjust the rules to suit. Someone else will also have to be the final word on puts and takes and what goes on with the pass.

I just wanted to add another component to make this the most awesome FF League ever, ya know?
So I NEED you guys to speak up on the rules.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by chaase321

Looks like a hell of a list Scott!

Hell, that's just what he keeps in his sock drawer.

[shilala]

Originally Posted by Stephen

Just an observation, but with the contents of the pass leaning considerably ISOM, it'll be difficult for some of us simpletons (this guy) to fully enjoy and participate if a strict nc for nc and cc for cc is adhered to. If maybe the pass was initially more balanced or the restrictions lessened (while leeway is assumed it is also currently restricted) it wouldn't be an issue. Ultimately this is Scott's pass and he's generous enough to seed it with his personal stock, so he can decide how he sees fit.

In short, I just don't want to ruffle any feathers.

I was writing while you were.
I agree with you completely. We just need a way to institute your idea and put it in rule form.
It's not my pass, as I mentioned. It's OUR pass. I need you all to speak up as such.
If it helps, look at the cigar pass subforum for rules. I was looking there, but it was all kinda greek to me. I'm changing some meds again and my head is like soup. I'm real pleased I've done as well as I have.

[Stephen]

Question...

Are we getting off the merry-go-round after one trip, or are we going to continuously cycle it throughout the season (or until it makes it through everyone X amount of times)?

[shilala]

Originally Posted by Stephen

Question...

Are we getting off the merry-go-round after one trip, or are we going to continuously cycle it throughout the season (or until it makes it through everyone X amount of times)?

I'd like to move it as fast as possible and get it through as many hands as possible until the season is over.
If guys would like to continue until Spring, I see no problem with that, either. We should definately take a break Start back up August something.
We can kick it back in during pre-season, or as soon as we all come together and get the league going for next year?

It's easy enough to track who had it last (from year to year), it'll all be on the flash drive I put in the box.

[shilala]

FF Pass Box went out to Stephen today. The mail lady should grab it any moment now.
DC#9406203699300022068627
Enjoy, my brother!!!

[chaase321]

That's a large box!

Give me some time to think about your proposed questions Scott and I'll get back with you all

[jkim05]

Originally Posted by shilala

I'm working on that now, Cole. It's going to Stephen today because he's ready.
I need some more input on the rules. I was texting Stephen and he mentioned the lopsided cc to nc ratio in the box, and that we'll probably need to relax the "cc for cc, nc for nc" rule. I agree with him, it's just a very difficult thing to do. We need ideas on how to implement that fairly.
I also need to know "how many smokes can a guy put/take?" We have nothing in there about that.

Mainly, you guys need to know this is OUR pass. I'm just looking over it to get it started. Yeah, I have some smokes invested, but that really means nothing. Shortly this will be everyone's smokes and I won't have any more in it than anyone else, and someone else will likely take care of the pass and need to adjust the rules to suit. Someone else will also have to be the final word on puts and takes and what goes on with the pass.

I just wanted to add another component to make this the most awesome FF League ever, ya know?
So I NEED you guys to speak up on the rules.

I'm not opposed to relaxing the CC/NC rule, but in my experience, what I've seen happen is that eventually the pass gets stripped of CC's and left with only NC's because people aren't taking NC's and leaving CC's. Personally I vote for keeping the rule because I don't really have any NC's, and I'm not really interested in picking any up. Not trying to exclude anyone, but I wouldn't be able to play on the NC side, so it kinda works both ways.

As for the number of cigars that can be swapped, I don't care if there's no limit.

[Mattso3000]

After it gets through MN there should be plenty of NC love in there. I think we'll be okay

[shilala]

Originally Posted by jkim05

I'm not opposed to relaxing the CC/NC rule, but in my experience, what I've seen happen is that eventually the pass gets stripped of CC's and left with only NC's because people aren't taking NC's and leaving CC's. Personally I vote for keeping the rule because I don't really have any NC's, and I'm not really interested in picking any up. Not trying to exclude anyone, but I wouldn't be able to play on the NC side, so it kinda works both ways.

As for the number of cigars that can be swapped, I don't care if there's no limit.

I'm in the same boat as you, Jeremy. I'm going to post a new version of the pass rules, and I'll add something to protect the ratio of cc's to nc's. I'm also going to send a quick pm to everyone, as there's an obvious way to solve the "some folks don't have cc's" issue.

[shilala]

Oh, Jeremy, I forgot something in my last post...
I put the "how many smokes can you take" at five for now until we get a good sense of how things are working, then we can raise the limit, okay?

Okay, guys. Here's the latest draft. It's a bit lawyerish, and it's been pretty tough for me to get ironed out.
Please continue to make suggestions and I will continue to iron this out to a point where it seems sensible and usable.

I know it's a lot, and at first glance may seem long-winded and ridiculous. This set of rules is going to serve us for a lot of years, and is next to nothing compared to what you'll see in many long-standing FF Leagues. These rules will protect our pass and see to it that it lasts safely for years to come.

We'll also need to iron out FF League rules as time allows. You'd be surprised how much a little rule book helps.
I may use one I have here from my wife's FF league and amend it to our purposes. Then maybe we can schedule a couple virtual herfs and have some smokes and work on it all together.

Anyways, that's what my thoughts are. Please add your own, and please do not be shy. Once again, this is OUR pass and OUR league. We need to work together to keep it as simple as possible, but cover as much as we can to keep it rolling.

[shilala]

Pass Rules

1.) This is probably the biggest and most important, hence the #1 position. You MUST purchase insurance when shipping the pass box. The box is to go between recipients via Priority Mail, Insured for $399. At whatever point the value of the cigars goes over that, please let everyone know and we'll raise it to $499 and so on.
It costs roughly $18.00-$20.00 to ship the box, insured. If anything ever happens that causes someone to find themselves short shipping fees on their week, please let me or one of the group know. I'll be more than happy to cover you.

2.)So far as Puts and Takes go...
a.) If you take a cc, put a cc. If you take an nc, put an nc.
b.)If a pass participant wishes to forego the nc/nc, cc/cc rule, they may do so, in either direction, but it will require of them a premium. Their replacement stick in a cc for nc or nc for cc trade must be a cigar valued significantly higher than that which he is taking. Another option is that the replacement cigar be a Rare/HTF stick, widely considered more valuable than the take. The only instance where a participant may forego the nc/nc, cc/cc rule is if/when there exist more cc's than nc's. A participant may forgo the nc/nc rule at any time, replacing cc's with nc's.
c.)The goal here is for us to create and carry on an absolutely top-notch pass. Please respect that, and replace cigars with premium cigars. That's not to say there's not a place in our lives for lower notch cigars, just please, not in this pass. It's special, and when it arrives on your weekend, it should completely blow your mind.
d.)In the spirit of part c, it will be considered perfectly acceptable for someone to take more than one cigar to make up the value of their put.
e.)As with all passes, the value of your puts should always be greater than that of your takes.
f.)Every time a member receives the pass box, he agrees to add a couple extra premium cigars to seed this pass for years to come.
g.)Please post your puts and takes in the Fantasy Football thread so a couple guys can okay them before you ship to the next participant. If you aren't sure about your puts and takes and want to speak to someone privately before posting in the thread, just drop someone a pm. If you have time for pics, that'd be great. Being as time is of the essence and our schedule is so aggressive, pics are NOT mandated. You can always take them and add them later if you like.
h.) You can take up to six cigars. If you have a situation where a take equals 2 cigars, you may take more, but your puts should not exceed 5 cigars. That does not include the extra cigars you've agreed to add to the pass in part h.

3.) If at any point you have a question concerning this pass or its rules and cannot reach me, Please contact and consider Stephen or Scott's (Sofaman) word as good (if not better) than my own. Either one has my blessing to act in my place in these matters at any time.

4.) Once the package is received, you MUST get it on it's way the same or next day. This is a very tight schedule pass being it's running weekend to weekend. We will not hunt you down and torture you for non-compliance, but know you're letting down a good brother who's really excited.

5.) If your schedule isn't going to work and you're afraid you won't be able to get the pass out immediately when you receive it, just let the guy ahead of you know and he can pass you up. Then let me know and we'll fit you back in when it works and I'll get a new schedule to all the guys. Doing this is not a problem at all, it's my pleasure. If we have to change your spot 20 times, still not a problem. Letting down your brothers is.

6.) Once mailed, please post the shipped date (if it's different from your posting date) & delivery confirmation or tracking number. Let us know what courier you used if not USPS, and DO NOT FORGET INSURANCE!!!

7.) If at some point this pass overfills the box, let me know and we'll figure out what to do.

8.) At season's end, I'll retrieve my cigars that I used to seed the pass and I'll leave what's left. Next season I will use those extras we gain to seed the new pass, and if necessary I will add more to make it more interesting.

9.) In the box will be single finger bags. Please make sure all cigars are placed in finger bags and marked. There are also other supplies in there, please use them as necessary.

10.) There will be a flash drive in the supplies bag. It will have notepad files on it containing the participant's addresses, pass rules, and list of cigars. Please update the cigar list with your puts and takes as we go. If you'd like to update the "what's in the box list", that'd be great. If not, please just list your puts and takes, add the date, and say who you are. It's of HUGE importance to track the puts, takes and cigars that are in the box. Please do everything you can to keep excellent records. Please DO NOT erase any information on the list. Just add to the bottom of the list. If you'f like to alphabetize, upgrade, update, or otherwise better the lists, please feel free to do so.
I chose Notepad format because everyone has it. If someone would like to change our record keeping to some other open source format, feel free, but please add the program to the flash drive. Once again, DO NOT erase any of the prior information. Simply add your new format.

11.) The pass will run until March 31, or whatever time makes itself obvious as suitable. It will begin as soon as pre-season starts, or as soon as we can get the guys together and get next year's league formed.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by jkim05

I'm not opposed to relaxing the CC/NC rule, but in my experience, what I've seen happen is that eventually the pass gets stripped of CC's and left with only NC's because people aren't taking NC's and leaving CC's. Personally I vote for keeping the rule because I don't really have any NC's, and I'm not really interested in picking any up. Not trying to exclude anyone, but I wouldn't be able to play on the NC side, so it kinda works both ways.

Which was a concern of mine as well, and something I didn't wish to see happen (and shared as much with Scott). As Matt alluded to and I suspected would happen, NC's would make it into the pass in spades as it made its way around to everyone a time or two, making the imbalance a virtual non-factor.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by shilala

2.)So far as Puts and Takes go...
c.)The goal here is for us to create and carry on an absolutely top-notch pass. Please respect that, and replace cigars with premium cigars. That's not to say there's not a place in our lives for lower notch cigars, just please, not in this pass. It's special, and when it arrives on your weekend, it should completely blow your mind.

For sake of clarification, what are we setting the basement at? $7.00-8.00? That's about what I'm gauging from your initial launch. If not, feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken.

Also, at some point are you going to allow a 2 for 1 exchange as long as the minimum dollar amount is met? Say (rough example) that there's a stick in the pass which the group agrees is worth $25.00. Are you going to allow that stick to be bought with two $15.00 sticks?

[JenksAnejo]

YTD Troop Bets

Chaase321 owe's 5 troop sticks. (Chaase321 vs. JenksAnejo 9/2/12)

Week 1

Coach Deg owe's 5 troop sticks. (Coach Deg vs. Mattso3000)
Stephen owe's 5 troop sticks. (Coach Deg vs. Stephen)
Sofa man owe's 5 troop sticks. (Coach Deg vs. Sofaman)
Mkarnold owe's 5 troop sticks. (Coach Deg vs. MKArnold1)
MKarnold owe's 5 troop sticks. (MKArnold1 vs. Chaase321)

Week 2

JenksAnejo owe's 5 troop sticks. (JenksAnejo vs. Mattso3000)


Chase I actually had NE picked to cover the spread against Arizona

[shilala]

Originally Posted by Stephen

For sake of clarification, what are we setting the basement at? $7.00-8.00? That's about what I'm gauging from your initial launch. If not, feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken.

Also, at some point are you going to allow a 2 for 1 exchange as long as the minimum dollar amount is met? Say (rough example) that there's a stick in the pass which the group agrees is worth $25.00. Are you going to allow that stick to be bought with two $15.00 sticks?

I thought I had the answer to that in the rules, but I somehow managed to edit it out. In all passes, a put needs to equal the value of a take. If a stick is valued at 25 bucks, a guy needs to replace it with one of equal or reasonably close value. So if you took a couple $25 sticks, replacing with a $20 and $30 would be reasonable, but replacing with a $10 and $15 would not. That's only because it'd leave the pass short a very premium stick, ya know? That's why puts and takes generally need to be of equal value, once again, within reason, and only to protect the integrity of the pass.

That question is covered in 2d, in the opposite direction. A guy is welcome to take a $10 and $15 stick and replace it with a $25 stick, as that brings nicer and less common premiums to the pass, and that just makes it all that much gooder.

How bout you amend the rules and get that in there somewhere, will ya please?

Also, if anyone would like to work on the flow, order, and wording of the mess I've made into a more readable and compact set of rules, that'd be simply awesome.
Not that anyone has read this far into my post, but once again, please, please, please speak freely on this. I really need everyone's help on this, and I need it bad. It's been a royal pain to get these rules together, I haven't had time to steal ideas from other passes, it's been way too busy here and it's not likely to let up the rest of the week.
Thank you IMMENSELY to those of you who have thrown your ideas out there. I hope I've covered them satisfactorally, every one has been excellent!!!

[chaase321]

Scott, everything looks good to me, or at least nothing looks too out of the ordinary for the rules. I'm gonna need to find some more good sticks!

So, now that you have changed the rules more have any different sticks been added/replaced, or still the same setup?

Jarrod, sorry, misread the bet. I'm out on NE NOT covering the spread.

Is anyone else making bets this weekend?

[JenksAnejo]

Scott, I think everything looks fantastic man. I've always wanted to be in a super premium pass! This is going to be awesome.