Mistakes? Counterfits? Knock-Offs? - Page 2

shilala · 08-30-2011, 03:19 PM

Get the Padron ALT's. They're not bad, even though they don't taste like Padrons.
Better yet, for a decent cigar at a nice price, get some Tampa Sweethearts. They're premium tobacco rolled by apprentices. At a time they used the same blend as the Hemingway line. Good thing about these is that you can smoke them too.

Zanaspus · 08-31-2011, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shilala

Get the Padron ALT's. They're not bad, even though they don't taste like Padrons.
Better yet, for a decent cigar at a nice price, get some Tampa Sweethearts. They're premium tobacco rolled by apprentices. At a time they used the same blend as the Hemingway line. Good thing about these is that you can smoke them too.

Not to hijack, but I've seen lots of lovers of Tampa Sweethearts. Can I get some vitola recommendations?

The Poet · 08-30-2011, 03:38 PM

Your question, like its title, is really three-part:

Mistakes = Sometimes these mistakes are the exact same cigar as their premium cousin, except that (for instance) the wrapper may have some blemishes or flaws which prevent them from being sold as firsts. The Consuegras used to be this, though it's questionable if they still are. Regardless, they can taste and burn the same as the high-price spread.

Counterfeits = This is harder, as there are counterfeits and counterfeits. A counterfeit CC can be great, or can be garbage. A counterfeit NC may not even exist, at least in the USA, for what is the point? But there are "counterfeit by name" smokes which are quite decent. Again, e.g., Lew Rothman came out with his Genuine Counterfeit Cubans some years back, both as a marketing tool and as a joke about all the "truly fake" CCs available . . . he guaranteed that these were fake Cubans. They aren't CCs, but they aren't bad either.

Knock-offs = As others have stated, these can be decent yard 'gars at worst, and acceptable everyday smokes for those on a budget. The JR Alts fall within this range. Keep in mind that, ever since the end of the Cigar Boom, makers have had more capacity than the market requires, so by producing these lower-priced smokes they can at least keep the farmers planting and the rollers working. And even if they are not the best thing available, they are handrolled cigars which are superior to all machine-made and homogonous garbage that are priced not much lower than these knock-offs.

What should you do? Try some, then let US know what YOU think.

wayner123 · 08-31-2011, 08:35 AM

The Poet points out some great observations with his post. So I will not cover that again.

However, if you are talking about what is commonly referred to as "seconds" then I can help. For a good number of years I smoked mostly seconds. There are some really bad ones out there, but more often than not you get a great cigar at a fraction of the name brand price.

Below is a link to great online retailer for the seconds market. You can find pretty much every maker on that list.

http://www.lynncigars.com/subpage4ne...l#newbrandlist

Tampa Sweethearts and the brands which only cigarsinternational sell (such as man o war seconds, etc) are not on the list, but can be found elsewhere on the interwebs.

CigarSquid · 08-31-2011, 08:53 AM

The Poet, Great, Thanks! Soon as I get my coolidor up and going..( i need to find one this weekend) I will prolly get some of those, KO, Counterfeit or mistakes.

I will post back in here once i have tried them and let you know what i think.

My question was asking if anyone had tried them, Some of the vets on here. As I am still new and can't compare them to the real deals.

I guess I will be on the quest for the real ones, 5 paks or so to compare with.

The Poet · 08-31-2011, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garryyjr

My question was asking if anyone had tried them, Some of the vets on here. As I am still new and can't compare them to the real deals.

I have tried every one mentioned specifically in my post, and have been more often satisfied rather than disappointed, and occasionally thrilled. But keep in mind:

A) I always went into these with lower expectations than I would have with the high-price spreads.

B) As with even the "best" cigars, your satisfaction will depend not only upon your own particular tastes, but also on the "luck of the draw". More than once Lew Rothman has observed that the best cigar you ever smoked may lay right next to the worst one you ever smoked, in the very same box. Ya pays yer money, and ya takes yer chances.

dave · 11-15-2011, 01:33 PM

I like these a lot:
http://www.famous-smoke.com/rp+facto...ars/item+31154
Get 'em on sale or from their auctioneer for 40-45; put them down to nap for a couple months, then enjoy.

ktblunden · 11-15-2011, 02:17 PM

I've found these locally for really cheap per bundle and they're fantastic cigars:
http://www.bonitasmokeshop.com/no_59...ts_bundled.htm

I've had the 59 and the 99 and both were great. Stay away from the "sweet" version though.

alexa071 · 11-16-2011, 02:00 AM

Quote:

The RP vintage seconds are very good as well.

+1...

applevalleyjoe · 11-19-2011, 07:09 PM

Some years ago I bought a bundle of El Credito Churchill's. Not too bad but lots of problem with draw and burn. Later tried some Padron alternatives from TNT. Also not bad but certainly no Padron. More like a mid-grade Nicaraguan puro.

08-30-2011, 03:19 PM	#1
shilala Dear Lord, Thank You. Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Scott Posts: 13,721 Trading: (252)	Re: Mistakes? Counterfits? Knock-Offs? Get the Padron ALT's. They're not bad, even though they don't taste like Padrons. Better yet, for a decent cigar at a nice price, get some Tampa Sweethearts. They're premium tobacco rolled by apprentices. At a time they used the same blend as the Hemingway line. Good thing about these is that you can smoke them too. __________________

08-30-2011, 03:38 PM	#3
The Poet Il megglior fabbro Join Date: Jun 2009 First Name: Thomas Location: Hickory, NC Posts: 8,420 Trading: (2)	Re: Mistakes? Counterfits? Knock-Offs? Your question, like its title, is really three-part: Mistakes = Sometimes these mistakes are the exact same cigar as their premium cousin, except that (for instance) the wrapper may have some blemishes or flaws which prevent them from being sold as firsts. The Consuegras used to be this, though it's questionable if they still are. Regardless, they can taste and burn the same as the high-price spread. Counterfeits = This is harder, as there are counterfeits and counterfeits. A counterfeit CC can be great, or can be garbage. A counterfeit NC may not even exist, at least in the USA, for what is the point? But there are "counterfeit by name" smokes which are quite decent. Again, e.g., Lew Rothman came out with his Genuine Counterfeit Cubans some years back, both as a marketing tool and as a joke about all the "truly fake" CCs available . . . he guaranteed that these were fake Cubans. They aren't CCs, but they aren't bad either. Knock-offs = As others have stated, these can be decent yard 'gars at worst, and acceptable everyday smokes for those on a budget. The JR Alts fall within this range. Keep in mind that, ever since the end of the Cigar Boom, makers have had more capacity than the market requires, so by producing these lower-priced smokes they can at least keep the farmers planting and the rollers working. And even if they are not the best thing available, they are handrolled cigars which are superior to all machine-made and homogonous garbage that are priced not much lower than these knock-offs. What should you do? Try some, then let US know what YOU think. __________________ Ninety percent of everything is crap - Theodore Sturgeon.

08-31-2011, 08:35 AM	#4
wayner123 Country Gentleman Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Deltona, FL Posts: 2,351 Trading: (159)	Re: Mistakes? Counterfits? Knock-Offs? The Poet points out some great observations with his post. So I will not cover that again. However, if you are talking about what is commonly referred to as "seconds" then I can help. For a good number of years I smoked mostly seconds. There are some really bad ones out there, but more often than not you get a great cigar at a fraction of the name brand price. Below is a link to great online retailer for the seconds market. You can find pretty much every maker on that list. http://www.lynncigars.com/subpage4ne...l#newbrandlist Tampa Sweethearts and the brands which only cigarsinternational sell (such as man o war seconds, etc) are not on the list, but can be found elsewhere on the interwebs. __________________ 'It is an honor for a man to keep aloof from strife; But every fool will be quarrelling.'

08-31-2011, 08:53 AM	#5
CigarSquid AKA Garryyjr Join Date: Apr 2011 First Name: Garry Location: Medford, OR - Cigar Zombie Posts: 3,213 Trading: (39)	Re: Mistakes? Counterfits? Knock-Offs? The Poet, Great, Thanks! Soon as I get my coolidor up and going..( i need to find one this weekend) I will prolly get some of those, KO, Counterfeit or mistakes. I will post back in here once i have tried them and let you know what i think. My question was asking if anyone had tried them, Some of the vets on here. As I am still new and can't compare them to the real deals. I guess I will be on the quest for the real ones, 5 paks or so to compare with.

11-15-2011, 01:33 PM	#7
dave Have My Own Room Join Date: May 2011 First Name: Dave Location: Northern VA Posts: 1,180 Trading: (15)	Re: Mistakes? Counterfits? Knock-Offs? I like these a lot: http://www.famous-smoke.com/rp+facto...ars/item+31154 Get 'em on sale or from their auctioneer for 40-45; put them down to nap for a couple months, then enjoy.

11-15-2011, 02:17 PM	#8
ktblunden Adjusting to the Life Join Date: Sep 2011 First Name: Kevin Location: Lancaster, CA Posts: 350 Trading: (6)	Re: Mistakes? Counterfits? Knock-Offs? I've found these locally for really cheap per bundle and they're fantastic cigars: http://www.bonitasmokeshop.com/no_59...ts_bundled.htm I've had the 59 and the 99 and both were great. Stay away from the "sweet" version though.

11-19-2011, 07:09 PM	#10
applevalleyjoe Just in from the Storm Join Date: Nov 2011 First Name: Joe Location: Mohave Desert, CA Posts: 4 Trading: (0)	Re: Mistakes? Counterfits? Knock-Offs? Some years ago I bought a bundle of El Credito Churchill's. Not too bad but lots of problem with draw and burn. Later tried some Padron alternatives from TNT. Also not bad but certainly no Padron. More like a mid-grade Nicaraguan puro.