Selig Won't Reverse Call - Page 2

galaga · 06-03-2010, 03:41 PM

It's baseball. Played by people and refereed by people. The ump blew it. The game is over. The ump can't change the call. It is in the books, but by damn, the commissioner should be able to change the error. I'm all for all for not changing baseball from the way it has been played all these years. But Selig should protect the integrity of the game.

From Wikipedia:
Integrity in modern ethics
In a formal study of the term "integrity" and its meaning in modern ethics, law professor Stephen L. Carter sees integrity not only as a refusal to engage in behavior that evades responsibility[citation needed], but also as an understanding of different modes or styles in which discourse attempts to uncover a particular truth.[citation needed]
Carter writes that integrity requires three steps: "discerning what is right and what is wrong; acting on what you have discerned, even at personal cost; and saying openly that you are acting on your understanding of right from wrong." He regards integrity as being distinct from honesty.[5]

# [5] Carter, Stephen L (1996). Integrity. New York: BasicBooks/HarperCollins. pp. 7, 10. ISBN 0-06-092807-7. On page 242 Carter credits influence "to some extent by the fine discussion of integrity in Martin Benjamin's book Splitting the Difference: Compromise and Integrity in Ethics and Politics (Lawrence University Press of Kansas, 1990).

Do the right thing, Bud, you're the commissioner.

The Poet · 06-03-2010, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by galaga

But Selig should protect the integrity of the game.

And I would argue that he DID maintain the integrity of the game, by NOT changing the call. It all depends on how one chooses to parse it.

shilala · 06-03-2010, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Poet

And I would argue that he DID maintain the integrity of the game, by NOT changing the call.

Agreed.

He just upheld the trust of his position. It's not even arguable. Bud simply did what he's supposed to do.
It still made me hold my breath when I read the story this morning. It's tough to do the right thing when everyone is staring at you to make the decision that will make everyone happy.
More baseball life-ism in Bud's actions, too.

galaga · 06-03-2010, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Poet

And I would argue that he DID maintain the integrity of the game, by NOT changing the call. It all depends on how one chooses to parse it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shilala

Agreed.

He just upheld the trust of his position. It's not even arguable. Bud simply did what he's supposed to do.
It still made me hold my breath when I read the story this morning. It's tough to do the right thing when everyone is staring at you to make the decision that will make everyone happy.
More baseball life-ism in Bud's actions, too.

Making the arguments that you have made about baseball being like life and "life like baseball ain't fair", tells me you are avid fans of the game. I've made the same argument, no I've told my players many times "That's baseball. Man up..." However I'm LOL at the image of baseball fans who obviously love the game, the history of the game and defend the integrity of the game, defending Bud Selig. When has Bud ever had the integrity of the game as his prime or any semblance of his auxiliary motivation? Well, I will grant you the fact that Pete Rose still isn't in the HOF can be used as an example, but I'll claim that was Fay Vincent's doing and Bud didn't have the cojones to change it....

if this seems directed at yens, but as you might be able to tell, I'm not to fond of B.Selig......

(so, how 'bout that DH crap? When are they going to get rid of that sh!t???

)

shilala · 06-03-2010, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by galaga

Making the arguments that you have made about baseball being like life and "life like baseball ain't fair", tells me you are avid fans of the game. I've made the same argument, no I've told my players many times "That's baseball. Man up..." However I'm LOL at the image of baseball fans who obviously love the game, the history of the game and defend the integrity of the game, defending Bud Selig. When has Bud ever had the integrity of the game as his prime or any semblance of his auxiliary motivation? Well, I will grant you the fact that Pete Rose still isn't in the HOF can be used as an example, but I'll claim that was Fay Vincent's doing and Bud didn't have the cojones to change it....

if this seems directed at yens, but as you might be able to tell, I'm not to fond of B.Selig......

(so, how 'bout that DH crap? When are they going to get rid of that sh!t???

)

Don't start!!!

Yes, Bud's a dick. Pete's a dick, too. Pete is why Pete isn't in the HOF. Charlie Hustle is quite possibly my favorite ballplayer of all-time, and I would LOVE to see him inducted. Quite frankly, I think he lied about not betting AND lied about betting to get his way. I don't think they had anything concrete except hearsay, but Pete did it and knew. He didn't want spanked, so he went with a lie and his hidden betting didn't get outed.
Then he said "Yeah, I did it", but still didn't come clean. I don't think he ever will come clean. Poor bugger is half nuts, anyways. Another reason I love him.

I'd love to see the whole DH thing gone, too. Or put to both leagues.

wolfandwhisky · 06-03-2010, 03:49 PM

When is Pete Rose going to get inducted? This call isn't getting reversed.

The Poet · 06-03-2010, 04:45 PM

And bring back the spitball!!

blugill · 06-03-2010, 05:02 PM

Are we talking about the same Bud Selig who looked the other way during the steroid era?
That's some prime protection of the game right there! Loads of integrity! Let players juice up while ratings tanked and the bleachers were empty after the strike.

The fact of the matter is that the runner was out, a perfect game was pitched, the ump apologized for a bad call, the right thing is to overturn the call but since that is the right thing, MLB won't do it.

floydpink · 06-03-2010, 07:14 PM

I kinda agree that you can't overturn a bad call by instant replay to save a perfect game on one hand, but also think Joyce obviously knew it was the last out for a perfect game and coulda been a little more favorable on a close call on another hand.

The game was won, history about to be made and the call had to be real favorable to give it to the runner.

I'm also wondering if Gallaraga might get more notice by the no-call as he would have with the perfect game he really pitched. Not that it matters.

I also find it a bit curious how leisurely Cabrera made the throw to first on a fairly routine groundball considering what was at stake.

The image that sticks with me the most from all this is how classy Gallaraga remained in an era of so many crybabies in professional sports.

Salvelinus · 06-03-2010, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by floydpink

The image that sticks with me the most from all this is how classy Gallaraga remained in an era of so many crybabies in professional sports.

This is why there is no reason to overturn the call. Both parties involved acted like adults and professionals. The umpire admitted his mistake and took it upon himself to apologize, and Gallaraga has acted with nothing but class. Not to often in sports you see good role models for young atheletes.

kelmac07 · 06-03-2010, 08:16 PM

While Gallaraga pitched a "perfect game". It is sad that he won't get the credit and while I may not agree with Bud, I understand why. If he reversed the call, the umpires "authority" would mean jack sh@t. He is only trying to preserve the integrity of the game.

Starscream · 06-04-2010, 02:06 PM

Good points from both sides of the table. I agree that the decision shouldn't be overturned now, as the game continued from that point. If they had stopped the game there and argued for days about it, then the call could have been overturned, but it's too late now. Gallaraga will be better remembered now than he would have if he had an "official" perfect game. So many have already forgotten the name of Dallas Braden. He's remembered more this season b/c of his beef with A-Rod than his perfect game.

06-03-2010, 03:41 PM	#1
galaga Just call me Slappy. Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 1,832 Trading: (3)	Re: Selig Won't Reverse Call It's baseball. Played by people and refereed by people. The ump blew it. The game is over. The ump can't change the call. It is in the books, but by damn, the commissioner should be able to change the error. I'm all for all for not changing baseball from the way it has been played all these years. But Selig should protect the integrity of the game. From Wikipedia: Integrity in modern ethics In a formal study of the term "integrity" and its meaning in modern ethics, law professor Stephen L. Carter sees integrity not only as a refusal to engage in behavior that evades responsibility[citation needed], but also as an understanding of different modes or styles in which discourse attempts to uncover a particular truth.[citation needed] Carter writes that integrity requires three steps: "discerning what is right and what is wrong; acting on what you have discerned, even at personal cost; and saying openly that you are acting on your understanding of right from wrong." He regards integrity as being distinct from honesty.[5] # [5] Carter, Stephen L (1996). Integrity. New York: BasicBooks/HarperCollins. pp. 7, 10. ISBN 0-06-092807-7. On page 242 Carter credits influence "to some extent by the fine discussion of integrity in Martin Benjamin's book Splitting the Difference: Compromise and Integrity in Ethics and Politics (Lawrence University Press of Kansas, 1990). Do the right thing, Bud, you're the commissioner. __________________ I may be easy, but I'm sure as hell ain't cheap....

06-03-2010, 03:49 PM	#6
wolfandwhisky Resident Whisky Addict Join Date: Mar 2010 First Name: Matt Location: Arizona Posts: 521 Trading: (4)	Re: Selig Won't Reverse Call When is Pete Rose going to get inducted? This call isn't getting reversed.

06-03-2010, 04:45 PM	#7
The Poet Il megglior fabbro Join Date: Jun 2009 First Name: Thomas Location: Hickory, NC Posts: 8,420 Trading: (2)	Re: Selig Won't Reverse Call And bring back the spitball!!

06-03-2010, 05:02 PM	#8
blugill Feeling at Home Join Date: Dec 2008 First Name: Andy Location: Enid, Oklahoma Posts: 867 Trading: (10)	Re: Selig Won't Reverse Call Are we talking about the same Bud Selig who looked the other way during the steroid era? That's some prime protection of the game right there! Loads of integrity! Let players juice up while ratings tanked and the bleachers were empty after the strike. The fact of the matter is that the runner was out, a perfect game was pitched, the ump apologized for a bad call, the right thing is to overturn the call but since that is the right thing, MLB won't do it. __________________ My Blog

06-03-2010, 07:14 PM	#9
floydpink crazy diamond Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Pete Location: Orlando Posts: 1,955 Trading: (17)	Re: Selig Won't Reverse Call I kinda agree that you can't overturn a bad call by instant replay to save a perfect game on one hand, but also think Joyce obviously knew it was the last out for a perfect game and coulda been a little more favorable on a close call on another hand. The game was won, history about to be made and the call had to be real favorable to give it to the runner. I'm also wondering if Gallaraga might get more notice by the no-call as he would have with the perfect game he really pitched. Not that it matters. I also find it a bit curious how leisurely Cabrera made the throw to first on a fairly routine groundball considering what was at stake. The image that sticks with me the most from all this is how classy Gallaraga remained in an era of so many crybabies in professional sports. __________________ "If we weren't all crazy we would go insane" Last edited by floydpink; 06-03-2010 at 07:21 PM.

06-03-2010, 08:16 PM	#11
kelmac07 Resident Maduro Whore!! Join Date: Apr 2009 First Name: Mac Location: Newport News, VA Posts: 27,322 Trading: (218)	Re: Selig Won't Reverse Call While Gallaraga pitched a "perfect game". It is sad that he won't get the credit and while I may not agree with Bud, I understand why. If he reversed the call, the umpires "authority" would mean jack sh@t. He is only trying to preserve the integrity of the game. __________________ Dom in the MLB thread "I could probably get you to wear a Yankee hat for a Maduro!"

06-04-2010, 02:06 PM	#12
Starscream Knowhutimean, Vern? Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Andy Location: In a little town somewhere in the USA Posts: 10,237 Trading: (4)	Re: Selig Won't Reverse Call Good points from both sides of the table. I agree that the decision shouldn't be overturned now, as the game continued from that point. If they had stopped the game there and argued for days about it, then the call could have been overturned, but it's too late now. Gallaraga will be better remembered now than he would have if he had an "official" perfect game. So many have already forgotten the name of Dallas Braden. He's remembered more this season b/c of his beef with A-Rod than his perfect game. __________________ Insert quote here.