stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet

Originally Posted by SeanGAR

Emphasis placed by me.

So once a B&M starts selling online, they start getting the second rate cigars? Come on ... your thesis is ridiculous. The cost alone of keeping 2 separate inventories (the good cigars and the bad cigars) would preclude this. Six months makes a huge difference in taste of many cigars and is most likely the source of your preference. This is simpler and more logical than two inventories from what ... all vendors? All of them are conspiring and having two versions of all their cigars? Now that just doesn't pass the laugh test, does it?

You are looking at it much harsher than I intended. I would say that once a guy gets big enough to demand lower prices the makers then will then know when they are making these large batches for them and may not always use the best. Let QA drop a little. Definately not 2nd rate. Just noticeable.

Is aging a possible explination as well? Sure. I'll concede that. Is it the only explination and does it explain everything? No!

To you it seems ridiculous because you're looking at it as a much more severe difference than I mean. And much more sinister. I'm thinking simple business decisions that are easy. No separate stock. These big guys order direct from the factory and the factory knows who their product is being made for.

[SeanGAR]

Originally Posted by Legend

I'm thinking simple business decisions that are easy. No separate stock. These big guys order direct from the factory and the factory knows who their product is being made for.

Well if the best product went to the best clients (assuming these are B&M), how would they handle that at the factory? By rollers? By changing the cigar formulation?

Too much work and cost to segregate that way.

It just doesn't make sense that a manufacturer would put out anything that would be considered at all inferior in their regular line. That is why seconds abound. I've had seconds that smoked and looked very good. And if CI or any of the big guys found that they were getting inferior cigars because of who they are or their negotiated prices, how long do you think that would last?

DPG gets a huge order from CI for blue labels. You think they change the formulation or rolling to fulfill the order? You think DPG or any other retailer would risk the reputation of their cigars to save a few bucks? I just don't see it, not even a maybe.

Originally Posted by SeanGAR

Well if the best product went to the best clients (assuming these are B&M), how would they handle that at the factory? By rollers? By changing the cigar formulation?

Too much work and cost to segregate that way.

It just doesn't make sense that a manufacturer would put out anything that would be considered at all inferior in their regular line. That is why seconds abound. I've had seconds that smoked and looked very good. And if CI or any of the big guys found that they were getting inferior cigars because of who they are or their negotiated prices, how long do you think that would last?

DPG gets a huge order from CI for blue labels. You think they change the formulation or rolling to fulfill the order? You think DPG or any other retailer would risk the reputation of their cigars to save a few bucks? I just don't see it, not even a maybe.

I could go through how simple it seems to me. But ice already explained parts of it and you don't even see a maybe. So I'll leave it at that and not try to convince you. I mean you're not even willing to entertain the possibility. I'm wasting my time. It becomes an arguement and not a discussion. Not here to argue.

[Kreth]

Originally Posted by SeanGAR

Based on your thesis, you are suggesting that J&R sells different CAO Brazilias online than they do in their NC shop.

*sigh* I hang out here too much. My first thought after reading this was, "JR has a CC shop?"

[mithrilG60]

Originally Posted by SeanGAR

Normally I'm all for cigar testing on boards, but this, to me, is like designing an experiment to show that the earth is round.

The experiment would actually be pretty simple, just a basic double-blind study. Take for example 5 testers testing one vitola. A person independent from the testers would buy 2 boxes with roughly the same date stamps, 1 from a B&M and 1 from an online vendor, label them box A and B and give them to a second independent person (the distributor) without letting them know which is which. That second person would then remove the bands and replace them with blanks labeled to match the boxes they've come out and age them for a predetermined length of time in a known constant environment. Each of the testers would receive 10 cigars, 5 from each box, which they would have to smoke (preferably alternating equally between the 2 stocks) and record their impressions of both the smoke and their mood at the time. Once all 10 cigars have been smoked the tester reports their results back to the distributor. Only once all 5 testers have reported back and the distributor has tabulated which, if either, box was preferred does the first person reveal which was the internet box and which was the B&M.

At the end of all that production you'll almost guaranteed to find that the results are the same for each and the perception of a "better" cigar from a B&M/lounge is purely due to the bias induced by the environment and the fact that we are programed to think a more expensive product = better product.