Tom Brady

[AdamJoshua]

BOSTON -- Isaiah Thomas had 27 points and seven assists, and the Boston Celtics beat the Philadelphia 76ers 112-95 on Wednesday night in the season opener for each team.

So wait, did he settle the sexual harassment suit in NY, amazing that he flopped at running a team and now in his twilight years he's back in the league and putting up 27/7. Very nice

[The Poet]

You're thinking of Isiah Thomas, not Isaish Thomas. How can you possibly confuse them?

When Dallas drafted Bob Hayes in 1964, the game of football began to change from a "horizontal" to a "vertical" contest. Thus comparing QBs like Johnny U and Bart Starr to later ones is tricky, as the skill sets differ.

[icehog3]

That, and the earlier ones were badass m***********s.

[Bruins Fan]

Not to disparage any of the great players..but it was a different game before unrestricted free agency that started in 1992.

Teams could be built and players had no movement, QB's might throw the ball 20 times a game?

Just look at the old steeler teams, great defense big back to ground and pound, and a couple great receivers same with the 49'ers and cowboys.

Today you have a salary cap, so teams have to do their homework building a team. The Pats got that covered

[shilala]

Originally Posted by Bruins Fan

Today you have a salary cap, so teams have to do their homework building a team. The Pats got that covered

That's all Bill Belichick. He's got full autonomy and he has for years and years.
He's presided over Tom Brady's entire reign as QB, made the choice to jettison Bledsoe, "suffered" a 9-7 reason because of it, etc.

Don't think for a minute that Brady would have prospered so greatly were he not under Belichick.
Last year (maybe it was 2013?), for example.
The Pats sucked. Brady took tantrums and looked like an idiot through the first 4 weeks until Belichick pulled some receivers out of his ass.
Without stellar receivers, carefully practiced timing, and everything in a perfect vacuum, Brady collapsed.
Then he took tantrums, screamed at his teammates, and acted like he was a 13 year old girl.

That is what it is. Jay Cutler and Phillip Rivers have had their 13 year-old girl moments. So have many others.
Point being, he didn't general what he had into a winning position.
He took a fit.
A guy like Peyton Manning, who's been working in FAR less than perfect conditions his entire career has made due. Without tantrums.

All that is a BIG intangible.
Had Brady not had Belichick, he'd be Phillip Rivers. Guaranteed.
Bill Belichick is the brain behind Brady, always has been.
Were Belichick still in Cleveland, the Lombardi's would be stacked up in Berrea.

That only takes away from Brady in those "best ever" conversations.
He's going to see his place at the top of the record books, but his spot isn't going to last, not the way the NFL is headed.
It'll be Arena Football soon and Brady's numbers, and Montana's numbers, and everyone else's numbers will look like sh1t compared to some of the kids who haven't even come up through college yet.

[Porch Dweller]

Originally Posted by shilala

That's all Bill Belichick. He's got full autonomy and he has for years and years.
He's presided over Tom Brady's entire reign as QB, made the choice to jettison Bledsoe, "suffered" a 9-7 reason because of it, etc.

Don't think for a minute that Brady would have prospered so greatly were he not under Belichick.
Last year (maybe it was 2013?), for example.
The Pats sucked. Brady took tantrums and looked like an idiot through the first 4 weeks until Belichick pulled some receivers out of his ass.
Without stellar receivers, carefully practiced timing, and everything in a perfect vacuum, Brady collapsed.
Then he took tantrums, screamed at his teammates, and acted like he was a 13 year old girl.

That is what it is. Jay Cutler and Phillip Rivers have had their 13 year-old girl moments. So have many others.
Point being, he didn't general what he had into a winning position.
He took a fit.
A guy like Peyton Manning, who's been working in FAR less than perfect conditions his entire career has made due. Without tantrums.

All that is a BIG intangible.
Had Brady not had Belichick, he'd be Phillip Rivers. Guaranteed.
Bill Belichick is the brain behind Brady, always has been.
Were Belichick still in Cleveland, the Lombardi's would be stacked up in Berrea.

That only takes away from Brady in those "best ever" conversations.
He's going to see his place at the top of the record books, but his spot isn't going to last, not the way the NFL is headed.
It'll be Arena Football soon and Brady's numbers, and Montana's numbers, and everyone else's numbers will look like sh1t compared to some of the kids who haven't even come up through college yet.

Brady's had a bunch of nobodies as his receivers his entire career, with occasional exceptions of greatness such as Moss (for only three years), Gronk, Troy Brown, and Welker (who has only shined as a receiver with Brady as QB). He's made it work all the time with a revolving door of guys that were cut and signed off the wire and would probably be working at Planet Fitness if they had any other QB than Brady throwing to them.
Heck yeah, he's benefited from having the greatest coach ever; who wouldn't? But to have some of the guys he's had to throw to and still have the success he's had is NOT all on Belichek, not even close.

Your comment about Manning working in FAR less than perfect conditions his entire career is...well...puzzling. Manning benefited from playing most of his entire career in domes (Brady's stat's in domes are better than Mannings, BTW) and had consistent receivers, at least much more consistent than Brady, along with one of the greatest receiving RBs ever, Marshal Faulk. And as far as "tantrums", ANYONE can get frustrated and riled up. Remember, Manning gave us the wonderful Manning Face.

Here's a nice comparison between Brady and Manning. Here's a summary if you don't want to read the whole thing (it is long): Brady is Manning's statistical equal despite playing his entire career outdoors with inferior talent; Brady puts up more points and wins more consistently than any QB in history; Brady typically beats Manning head to head even with inferior teams; and Brady doesn't crap the bed every year in the playoffs.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by Porch Dweller

Brady's had a bunch of nobodies as his receivers his entire career, with occasional exceptions of greatness such as Moss (for only three years), Gronk, Troy Brown, and Welker (who has only shined as a receiver with Brady as QB). He's made it work all the time with a revolving door of guys that were cut and signed off the wire and would probably be working at Planet Fitness if they had any other QB than Brady throwing to them.
Heck yeah, he's benefited from having the greatest coach ever; who wouldn't? But to have some of the guys he's had to throw to and still have the success he's had is NOT all on Belichek, not even close.

Your comment about Manning working in FAR less than perfect conditions his entire career is...well...puzzling. Manning benefited from playing most of his entire career in domes (Brady's stat's in domes are better than Mannings, BTW) and had consistent receivers, at least much more consistent than Brady, along with one of the greatest receiving RBs ever, Marshal Faulk. And as far as "tantrums", ANYONE can get frustrated and riled up. Remember, Manning gave us the wonderful Manning Face.

Here's a nice comparison between Brady and Manning. Here's a summary if you don't want to read the whole thing (it is long): Brady is Manning's statistical equal despite playing his entire career outdoors with inferior talent; Brady puts up more points and wins more consistently than any QB in history; Brady typically beats Manning head to head even with inferior teams; and Brady doesn't crap the bed every year in the playoffs.

Not wanting to dive headlong into this debate, but Marshall Faulk? Really? Manning only played with Faulk Manning's rookie year before Faulk was traded to the Rams. Not even worth mentioning his name.


I have a good buddy that's an editor at FO that I could send your way that loves nothing more than to debate Brady vs. Manning. Him and I butt heads cause he thinks Rodgers is nothing more than a front runner. On second thought, eff him.

[AdamJoshua]

Originally Posted by icehog3

That, and the earlier ones were badass m***********s.

You mean when they go hit the NFL didn't scramble to change the rules, or when they should get driven into the ground by 3 guys long after the ball was released and no one cried and begged with the refs?

[icehog3]

Originally Posted by AdamJoshua

You mean when they go hit the NFL didn't scramble to change the rules, or when they should get driven into the ground by 3 guys long after the ball was released and no one cried and begged with the refs?

Yeah, but the Pats woulda had that covered.

[Weelok]

It's hard for me to fathom a best ever but in this year I wish I had Brady as my fantasy QB in the two leagues I am participating in but alas I do not. I do have Carson Palmer in one so happy with that but Russell Wilson in the other bleh

If I had been smarter I could have drafted Brady as he was on my plan but I started worrying the NFL drama might hurt him. Bleh, silly me

[shilala]

James, I read that breakdown. Very cool. Thanks for that!!!
My "conditions" comment wasn't very clear, but I was thinking about players he's had around him. Especially all those years with a sub-standard o-line.

I don't want to have a Brady/Manning debate, it's not the point.
I was just trying to back up Moses. Brady doesn't get his due.
It's mostly because everyone hates him and Belichick. They blame it on this and that, but I think it's probably because the Pats have stomped their team's hopes somewhere along the way.

[Bruins Fan]

Kickoff is less then an hour away. TB 12 will have his hands full with this Dolphin pass rush. Pats are very very thin on the offensive line.
Let's get it on!!

[Porch Dweller]

Good point on Faulk; I thought they overlapped a few more years than that but I stand corrected.

[Tio Gato]

Tommy's suspension reinstated. My wife is gonna cry.

[mhailey]

The thread which will not die.

[icehog3]

Does anyone West of Massachusetts even care?

[The Poet]

Originally Posted by icehog3

Does anyone West of Massachusetts even care?

There are some Jets fans in these parts who care. I don't know why, or why there are Jets fans.

[Weelok]

This thread will never die! It's how the NFL keeps in the news during the off season while we wait for draft picks.

Next up is Tim Tebo trying out for the Denver Broncos during Spring Training? News at 24/7-Sports.com