Does this seem right to you? - Page 2

Remo · 08-27-2012, 09:27 AM

Utah is like 400 % tax...no local buying for me

replicant_argent · 08-27-2012, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drevim

Down here in Evansville, IN, we have a couple of pretty decent B&Ms. But one is quite a bit better. I've personally witnessed an employee from the second shop come into the better one, purchase a box, then go back to their shop and mark them up $4-5 a stick.

Pretty much have stopped visiting shop #2.

Quote:

Originally Posted by irratebass

Wow! That's a D1ick move for sure.

So, the first shop owner is happy, he sold cigars for his price.
The second shop is purchasing a product, and putting capital into a product he may or may not sell, taking the risk that he can indeed sell them for the higher price to make a (fairly small) retail profit to drive his business. He is also expanding his inventory to serve his customer base at a cost that is most likely higher than what may have been normal wholesale pricing (if there is a licensing or preferred vendor pricing structure.)
The customer (any customer at any shop) has the choice to buy or not buy at any price.

And the "D1ck" move is exactly what?

czerbe · 08-27-2012, 09:52 AM

I always try and buy local but for larger quanities I buy online its just the was it is.. Although if you guys want to support a B&M and not shop at a Super Store there are a couple out there that have really good pricing and will ship to your door, Buckhead Cigar in Atlanta, and Burns in TN two great places I buy smokes from online that are B&M

irratebass · 08-27-2012, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by replicant_argent

So, the first shop owner is happy, he sold cigars for his price.
The second shop is purchasing a product, and putting capital into a product he may or may not sell, taking the risk that he can indeed sell them for the higher price to make a (fairly small) retail profit to drive his business. He is also expanding his inventory to serve his customer base at a cost that is most likely higher than what may have been normal wholesale pricing (if there is a licensing or preferred vendor pricing structure.)
The customer (any customer at any shop) has the choice to buy or not buy at any price.

And the "D1ck" move is exactly what?

The d1ck move I was referring to was shop #2 raising the price higher than shop #1.

You explained it all in your above message, and you are right shop #2 has a right to do that and we as consumers have the right not to shop there.

bobarian · 08-27-2012, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irratebass

The d1ck move I was referring to was shop #2 raising the price higher than shop #1.

You explained it all in your above message, and you are right shop #2 has a right to do that and we as consumers have the right not to shop there.

That's absolutely ridiculous. You know nothing about the second shop. He may have higher rent and overhead. He had to pay sales tax on his purchase and pay the employee to go and buy the box. Maybe his customers dont like the first shop and are willing to pay extra.

N2 GOLD · 08-27-2012, 12:23 PM

I order about 95% of my stuff online. The main reason is because of the DEALS one can get via online shopping. From time to time I do walk-in to B&M's but to see what they have in stock & so check out the price range they offer. I'll buy loose sticks & give myself a $$ limit but never buy a full box with the retail mark-up. I look for new sticks to try which is why I go the my local shops. But, for boxes/bulk online has the best deals. IMO I think most B&M's have extreme pricing. Which is why I limit my spending at B&M's.

CigarNut · 08-27-2012, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by N2 GOLD

I order about 95% of my stuff online. The main reason is because of the DEALS one can get via online shopping. From time to time I do walk-in to B&M's but to see what they have in stock & so check out the price range they offer. I'll buy loose sticks & give myself a $$ limit but never buy a full box with the retail mark-up. I look for new sticks to try which is why I go the my local shops. But, for boxes/bulk online has the best deals. IMO I think most B&M's have extreme pricing. Which is why I limit my spending at B&M's.

The catch with this is that if you do not support your local B&M's then they will disappear.

I buy stuff online but I also buy stuff from my local shops as well -- it costs a little more, but I hope it pays off for me (and the B&M's) in the long run. Having said that our local ZB&M's may have higher pricess (due to higher costs) but none of them are gouging us...

Mattso3000 · 08-27-2012, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CigarNut

The catch with this is that if you do not support your local B&M's then they will disappear.

My patio is below zero for half the year...I need that place to go and I buy whatever I can afford to from the local B&M as well as keeping a membership there. Doesn't hurt that it's a damn fine place to go have a smoke.

N2 GOLD · 08-27-2012, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CigarNut

The catch with this is that if you do not support your local B&M's then they will disappear.

I buy stuff online but I also buy stuff from my local shops as well -- it costs a little more, but I hope it pays off for me (and the B&M's) in the long run. Having said that our local ZB&M's may have higher pricess (due to higher costs) but none of them are gouging us...

I'm all for the B&M's making money. But, when they price their inventory above and beyond M.S.R.P. well thats just not my cup of tea. I understand every business whats to make $$ I get it. I also love the fact that I can choose to but or not to buy. I'm not saying that all B&M's do this but the ones who do just make it harder for the rest of them. I'm just saying IMO...

The Poet · 08-27-2012, 04:28 PM

Perhaps this true story will shed some light on some of the questions above . . . and perhaps not.

Remember those Webkins things, those "beanie baby"-type stuffed toys with the web code that let kids go online to adopt and interact with the characters? They became a redhot fad for a time. Well, a woman who'd just taken over a long-established shop here in town wanted to get into this fad, but could not find a wholesale supplier of these toys that still had them in stock. So she went online to purchase them, thus to be able to offer them to her potential customers. This meant that, instead of paying a few dollars for them, then marking them up to the "normal" retail of $8-$12, she was purchasing many of the most-popular characters for $25-$30, then turning around and selling (or trying to sell them) for $50-$60 each. A man from a neighboring town came in with his little girl, who "just had to have" one particular of these, but when the father saw the price he flipped out about the gouging the woman was attempting . . . to the point where he actually ended up in jail for threatening the woman's life.

Now, she was an idiot for thinking her idea of buying merchandise at inflated prices was a proper business plan. The father was triply an idiot for allowing his daughter to wrap him about his finger so completely, for getting so angry at the woman for charging what she wished for something noboby actually needed anyway, and mainly for letting his mouth write his @$$ a ticket to the pokey. And the little girl? Well, she at least had the excuse of youth for her idiocy.

A "hot" cigar which a local B&M cannot easily acquire may have put this owner into the same situation. Does that make him dishonest? No, not if his aim is to satisfy his customer's demands. Does that make him foolish? No, not if he manages to sell the product at an inflated price. Does that make him in danger? In this day and age, perhaps so.

drevim · 08-27-2012, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobarian

That's absolutely ridiculous. You know nothing about the second shop. He may have higher rent and overhead. He had to pay sales tax on his purchase and pay the employee to go and buy the box. Maybe his customers dont like the first shop and are willing to pay extra.

While I, and no one except the owners, can speak of overhead costs. This may very well be true. I wasn't passing judgement on either shop. The newer shop (#1 in the post) seems to have a much larger selection, and as was stated, made their asking price for the box.

#2 has been around for a much longer time, and while it does have a decent selection, has always had far more of a mark up than the other 4 or 5 shops in town. May be that they were able to do this prior to any competition. May be that they have the overhead issue. They do a steady business, but seemed to be mostly regulars when I was going there.

The only point I was trying to make, is that markups can happen in many ways.

bobarian · 08-27-2012, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drevim

While I, and no one except the owners, can speak of overhead costs. This may very well be true. I wasn't passing judgement on either shop. The newer shop (#1 in the post) seems to have a much larger selection, and as was stated, made their asking price for the box.

#2 has been around for a much longer time, and while it does have a decent selection, has always had far more of a mark up than the other 4 or 5 shops in town. May be that they were able to do this prior to any competition. May be that they have the overhead issue. They do a steady business, but seemed to be mostly regulars when I was going there.

The only point I was trying to make, is that markups can happen in many ways.

I must have missed where I was commenting on your post.

08-27-2012, 07:52 PM

I know when I worked at a cigar shop the price was based on taxes plus a slight markup for profit. As the taxes kept going up the owner would lower the profit margin to keep the customers from paying to high of a price. Online you can get away with lower prices because you dont have to pay the same tax as you would at a retail shop.

drevim · 08-27-2012, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobarian

I must have missed where I was commenting on your post.

It was a comment of a comment of my post. I probably should have multi-quoted to connect the chain. No worries, just wanted to clarify my point.

pnoon · 08-27-2012, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drevim

It was a comment of a comment of my post. I probably should have multi-quoted to connect the chain. No worries, just wanted to clarify my point.

Just get your sorry a$$ to San Diego.

Mr. Ed · 08-27-2012, 10:56 PM

The local B&M i deal with is quite literally a home away from home. It's a real inviting, calm, relaxed lounge that used to be an old house. It feels like you're heading over a buddy's place for a smoke. I'll buy a box every couple of months and rented out a locker to support him. I know I'm taking a hit on the box price vs what I can purchase online, but that's a hit I'm willing to take for using his amenities. (Plus it's in PA, so there's no cigar tax!

)

As for the cigar prices. The PGs are a very pricey stick. Not surprised there. As for the Pete Johnson stuff, if he's not an authorized Tat retailer he's probably purchasing them from a distributor or another shop and is already paying a premium for that. Idk if that's the case or not, but like others have said: cigar tax.

bobarian · 08-27-2012, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pnoon

Just get your sorry a$$ to San Diego.

forgop · 08-28-2012, 04:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ogre

We have a shop here that charges on average $1-$2 above retail. Why you ask, "Because We Can", is the response I got when asked.

I'd quickly tell him that you'll buy them cheaper online from now on "because you can".

Ranger_B · 08-28-2012, 06:20 AM

I would buy more from my B&M if he would update his selection with more of the "boutique" lines. But when it comes to padrons, fuentes, ashtons I go to him. I also grab all my pipe tobacco from my local shop. The owner is a great guy and prices very fairly he just doesnt have to space and has an old clientele that stick to the more traditional brands that take up a ton of space in his small humidor. So newer stuff I get online and then my regular smokes I get from him.

dave · 08-28-2012, 06:57 AM

I don't frequent B&M's often, but when I do go into one (any one), I always buy at least one cigar. I think they serve a purpose and I like to support them (a little anyway.)

I agree completely with R. Agent.
I really cannot understand anybody getting upset over pricing at any one shop. Short of wide-spread collusion, I say let the market do its thing. I, and the other patrons, will judge with our wallets.

08-27-2012, 09:27 AM	#21
Remo C.I.A Join Date: Feb 2011 First Name: Mike Location: Palm Harbor, Florida Posts: 12,597 Trading: (122)	Re: Does this seem right to you? Utah is like 400 % tax...no local buying for me __________________

08-27-2012, 09:52 AM	#23
czerbe Just a Traveling Man Join Date: Apr 2012 First Name: Corey Location: Reading Pa Posts: 1,309 Trading: (2)	Re: Does this seem right to you? I always try and buy local but for larger quanities I buy online its just the was it is.. Although if you guys want to support a B&M and not shop at a Super Store there are a couple out there that have really good pricing and will ship to your door, Buckhead Cigar in Atlanta, and Burns in TN two great places I buy smokes from online that are B&M __________________ Live fast, hard, everyday like its your last.

08-27-2012, 12:23 PM	#26
N2 GOLD MIND OVER MATTER... Join Date: Feb 2011 First Name: RICO Location: So. CAL 33° 44' 44" N / 117° 52' 0" W Posts: 2,330 Trading: (1)	Re: Does this seem right to you? I order about 95% of my stuff online. The main reason is because of the DEALS one can get via online shopping. From time to time I do walk-in to B&M's but to see what they have in stock & so check out the price range they offer. I'll buy loose sticks & give myself a $$ limit but never buy a full box with the retail mark-up. I look for new sticks to try which is why I go the my local shops. But, for boxes/bulk online has the best deals. IMO I think most B&M's have extreme pricing. Which is why I limit my spending at B&M's. __________________ When I want your opinion, I'll give it to ya. Last edited by N2 GOLD; 08-27-2012 at 12:33 PM.

08-27-2012, 04:28 PM	#30
The Poet Il megglior fabbro Join Date: Jun 2009 First Name: Thomas Location: Hickory, NC Posts: 8,420 Trading: (2)	Re: Does this seem right to you? Perhaps this true story will shed some light on some of the questions above . . . and perhaps not. Remember those Webkins things, those "beanie baby"-type stuffed toys with the web code that let kids go online to adopt and interact with the characters? They became a redhot fad for a time. Well, a woman who'd just taken over a long-established shop here in town wanted to get into this fad, but could not find a wholesale supplier of these toys that still had them in stock. So she went online to purchase them, thus to be able to offer them to her potential customers. This meant that, instead of paying a few dollars for them, then marking them up to the "normal" retail of $8-$12, she was purchasing many of the most-popular characters for $25-$30, then turning around and selling (or trying to sell them) for $50-$60 each. A man from a neighboring town came in with his little girl, who "just had to have" one particular of these, but when the father saw the price he flipped out about the gouging the woman was attempting . . . to the point where he actually ended up in jail for threatening the woman's life. Now, she was an idiot for thinking her idea of buying merchandise at inflated prices was a proper business plan. The father was triply an idiot for allowing his daughter to wrap him about his finger so completely, for getting so angry at the woman for charging what she wished for something noboby actually needed anyway, and mainly for letting his mouth write his @$$ a ticket to the pokey. And the little girl? Well, she at least had the excuse of youth for her idiocy. A "hot" cigar which a local B&M cannot easily acquire may have put this owner into the same situation. Does that make him dishonest? No, not if his aim is to satisfy his customer's demands. Does that make him foolish? No, not if he manages to sell the product at an inflated price. Does that make him in danger? In this day and age, perhaps so. __________________ Ninety percent of everything is crap - Theodore Sturgeon.

08-27-2012, 07:52 PM	#33
Cav22 Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Does this seem right to you? I know when I worked at a cigar shop the price was based on taxes plus a slight markup for profit. As the taxes kept going up the owner would lower the profit margin to keep the customers from paying to high of a price. Online you can get away with lower prices because you dont have to pay the same tax as you would at a retail shop.

08-27-2012, 10:56 PM	#36
Mr. Ed A horse is a horse... Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Ed...duh Location: THE Burgh Posts: 499 Trading: (6)	Re: Does this seem right to you? The local B&M i deal with is quite literally a home away from home. It's a real inviting, calm, relaxed lounge that used to be an old house. It feels like you're heading over a buddy's place for a smoke. I'll buy a box every couple of months and rented out a locker to support him. I know I'm taking a hit on the box price vs what I can purchase online, but that's a hit I'm willing to take for using his amenities. (Plus it's in PA, so there's no cigar tax!) As for the cigar prices. The PGs are a very pricey stick. Not surprised there. As for the Pete Johnson stuff, if he's not an authorized Tat retailer he's probably purchasing them from a distributor or another shop and is already paying a premium for that. Idk if that's the case or not, but like others have said: cigar tax. __________________ ...but Mister Ed will never speak, unless he has something to say...

08-28-2012, 06:20 AM	#39
Ranger_B Have My Own Room Join Date: Apr 2009 First Name: Frank Location: North Carolina Posts: 1,321 Trading: (31)	Re: Does this seem right to you? I would buy more from my B&M if he would update his selection with more of the "boutique" lines. But when it comes to padrons, fuentes, ashtons I go to him. I also grab all my pipe tobacco from my local shop. The owner is a great guy and prices very fairly he just doesnt have to space and has an old clientele that stick to the more traditional brands that take up a ton of space in his small humidor. So newer stuff I get online and then my regular smokes I get from him. __________________ http://www.cigarrights.org/

08-28-2012, 06:57 AM	#40
dave Have My Own Room Join Date: May 2011 First Name: Dave Location: Northern VA Posts: 1,180 Trading: (15)	Re: Does this seem right to you? I don't frequent B&M's often, but when I do go into one (any one), I always buy at least one cigar. I think they serve a purpose and I like to support them (a little anyway.) I agree completely with R. Agent. I really cannot understand anybody getting upset over pricing at any one shop. Short of wide-spread collusion, I say let the market do its thing. I, and the other patrons, will judge with our wallets.