Does this seem right to you? - Page 2

kelmac07 · 08-27-2012, 05:51 AM

I'm with the majority here. I really do want to support my local B&M, so I stop in periodically to pick up a few sticks (new releases I want to try) and if I enjoy them, I'll buy a box online. Best time to buy boxes from a B&M are during cigar events. While I don't like the mark up...fully understand it. Now for the folks in the high tax states...I feel for ya brothers.

Subvet642 · 08-27-2012, 06:33 AM

I think I'm also in the majority here. The B&M in my neighborhood has good prices and sells at MSRP, even Opus, but if a B&M decides to mark-up their prices to ridiculous levels, then why should I (or anyone else) support them? Customer loyalty isn't automatic, nor should it be, but it must be reciprocal; a business gets my loyalty when they earn it.

mosesbotbol · 08-27-2012, 08:40 AM

How are there prices on cigars you are familiar with? Maybe he had to pay a premium to get them, hence the high price? Maybe the high price is push customers to another cigar instead?

Remo · 08-27-2012, 09:27 AM

Utah is like 400 % tax...no local buying for me

czerbe · 08-27-2012, 09:52 AM

I always try and buy local but for larger quanities I buy online its just the was it is.. Although if you guys want to support a B&M and not shop at a Super Store there are a couple out there that have really good pricing and will ship to your door, Buckhead Cigar in Atlanta, and Burns in TN two great places I buy smokes from online that are B&M

N2 GOLD · 08-27-2012, 12:23 PM

I order about 95% of my stuff online. The main reason is because of the DEALS one can get via online shopping. From time to time I do walk-in to B&M's but to see what they have in stock & so check out the price range they offer. I'll buy loose sticks & give myself a $$ limit but never buy a full box with the retail mark-up. I look for new sticks to try which is why I go the my local shops. But, for boxes/bulk online has the best deals. IMO I think most B&M's have extreme pricing. Which is why I limit my spending at B&M's.

CigarNut · 08-27-2012, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by N2 GOLD

I order about 95% of my stuff online. The main reason is because of the DEALS one can get via online shopping. From time to time I do walk-in to B&M's but to see what they have in stock & so check out the price range they offer. I'll buy loose sticks & give myself a $$ limit but never buy a full box with the retail mark-up. I look for new sticks to try which is why I go the my local shops. But, for boxes/bulk online has the best deals. IMO I think most B&M's have extreme pricing. Which is why I limit my spending at B&M's.

The catch with this is that if you do not support your local B&M's then they will disappear.

I buy stuff online but I also buy stuff from my local shops as well -- it costs a little more, but I hope it pays off for me (and the B&M's) in the long run. Having said that our local ZB&M's may have higher pricess (due to higher costs) but none of them are gouging us...

Mattso3000 · 08-27-2012, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CigarNut

The catch with this is that if you do not support your local B&M's then they will disappear.

My patio is below zero for half the year...I need that place to go and I buy whatever I can afford to from the local B&M as well as keeping a membership there. Doesn't hurt that it's a damn fine place to go have a smoke.

N2 GOLD · 08-27-2012, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CigarNut

The catch with this is that if you do not support your local B&M's then they will disappear.

I buy stuff online but I also buy stuff from my local shops as well -- it costs a little more, but I hope it pays off for me (and the B&M's) in the long run. Having said that our local ZB&M's may have higher pricess (due to higher costs) but none of them are gouging us...

I'm all for the B&M's making money. But, when they price their inventory above and beyond M.S.R.P. well thats just not my cup of tea. I understand every business whats to make $$ I get it. I also love the fact that I can choose to but or not to buy. I'm not saying that all B&M's do this but the ones who do just make it harder for the rest of them. I'm just saying IMO...

The Poet · 08-27-2012, 04:28 PM

Perhaps this true story will shed some light on some of the questions above . . . and perhaps not.

Remember those Webkins things, those "beanie baby"-type stuffed toys with the web code that let kids go online to adopt and interact with the characters? They became a redhot fad for a time. Well, a woman who'd just taken over a long-established shop here in town wanted to get into this fad, but could not find a wholesale supplier of these toys that still had them in stock. So she went online to purchase them, thus to be able to offer them to her potential customers. This meant that, instead of paying a few dollars for them, then marking them up to the "normal" retail of $8-$12, she was purchasing many of the most-popular characters for $25-$30, then turning around and selling (or trying to sell them) for $50-$60 each. A man from a neighboring town came in with his little girl, who "just had to have" one particular of these, but when the father saw the price he flipped out about the gouging the woman was attempting . . . to the point where he actually ended up in jail for threatening the woman's life.

Now, she was an idiot for thinking her idea of buying merchandise at inflated prices was a proper business plan. The father was triply an idiot for allowing his daughter to wrap him about his finger so completely, for getting so angry at the woman for charging what she wished for something noboby actually needed anyway, and mainly for letting his mouth write his @$$ a ticket to the pokey. And the little girl? Well, she at least had the excuse of youth for her idiocy.

A "hot" cigar which a local B&M cannot easily acquire may have put this owner into the same situation. Does that make him dishonest? No, not if his aim is to satisfy his customer's demands. Does that make him foolish? No, not if he manages to sell the product at an inflated price. Does that make him in danger? In this day and age, perhaps so.

08-27-2012, 07:52 PM

I know when I worked at a cigar shop the price was based on taxes plus a slight markup for profit. As the taxes kept going up the owner would lower the profit margin to keep the customers from paying to high of a price. Online you can get away with lower prices because you dont have to pay the same tax as you would at a retail shop.

Ranger_B · 08-28-2012, 06:20 AM

I would buy more from my B&M if he would update his selection with more of the "boutique" lines. But when it comes to padrons, fuentes, ashtons I go to him. I also grab all my pipe tobacco from my local shop. The owner is a great guy and prices very fairly he just doesnt have to space and has an old clientele that stick to the more traditional brands that take up a ton of space in his small humidor. So newer stuff I get online and then my regular smokes I get from him.

dave · 08-28-2012, 06:57 AM

I don't frequent B&M's often, but when I do go into one (any one), I always buy at least one cigar. I think they serve a purpose and I like to support them (a little anyway.)

I agree completely with R. Agent.
I really cannot understand anybody getting upset over pricing at any one shop. Short of wide-spread collusion, I say let the market do its thing. I, and the other patrons, will judge with our wallets.

irratebass · 08-28-2012, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dave

I don't frequent B&M's often, but when I do go into one (any one), I always buy at least one cigar. I think they serve a purpose and I like to support them (a little anyway.)

I agree completely with R. Agent.
I really cannot understand anybody getting upset over pricing at any one shop. Short of wide-spread collusion, I say let the market do its thing. I, and the other patrons, will judge with our wallets.

I only got upset because of the markup on the Quesada and La Duena's especially after I found out how much they can be had for online, + this is the only B&M locally that is carrying them...I want to support them, but not at those prices...that's the bottom line.

neoflex · 08-29-2012, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irratebass

I only got upset because of the markup on the Quesada and La Duena's especially after I found out how much they can be had for online, + this is the only B&M locally that is carrying them...I want to support them, but not at those prices...that's the bottom line.

Even at a local level those prices are high for both those sticks!

ninjavanish · 08-29-2012, 01:18 PM

I feel like you guys may be forgetting that for every price hound out there, there's some guy who knows no better or has enough money that he doesn't care about the price and/or is willing to pay whatever price to get whatever it is that he wants.

I mean, I worked in retail for a long time. People would come everyday and say "I can get these for almost half as much online." The answer was always, "Then sir, I believe you may be in the wrong place." No offense meant to those who are constantly on the hunt for the best prices, but you must recognize that you're not the only clients a store may have. I also had guys come in nearly everyday and say "I want a box of the most expensive cigar you've got." Or, "I want a box of whatever you recommend is good, don't care about the pricing as long as you say it's good." And would gladly pay it without blinking an eye.

While it's nice to fantasize about the customer always being right, that's in regards to customer service. Not pricing. Sorry to say, but when it comes to keeping the doors open and making a profit, that's a decision that the manager/owner must weigh. The truth of the matter is you have no idea what their overhead/clientele demographic/COG's/ROI/Market Position/etc/etc are and therefore telling someone how to price their cigars is comparable to telling them how to run their business. Which, quite frankly, is impolite at best, unless you have some special relationship with the manager/owner which would allow such a discussion to take place in earnest.

This is not to say that you (the consumer) have no recourse against pricing that doesn't suit you. You can simply not purchase and walk away and say "You know, I don't think the pricing is right in here for me, but thank you anyway." That's not accusatory or inflamatory, and you might be suprised how quickly some sales associates would jump to say "well, that's something we could remedy." You're also much more likely to get a deal from someone if you're not coming to them with a complaint about their pricing. And trying to grind a deal out of someone is probably going to be met with flat out "Can't do that. Or, My manager isn't here to approve a deal like that right now."

The thing is, you must know by now (Because it's not like this has happened overnight), the internet and catalog business will forever demolish Brick and Mortar pricing unless something drastic happens.

If you don't want to purchase from a B&M... Just don't. There's someone else who will.

DaBear · 09-03-2012, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ninjavanish

I feel like you guys may be forgetting that for every price hound out there, there's some guy who knows no better or has enough money that he doesn't care about the price and/or is willing to pay whatever price to get whatever it is that he wants.

I mean, I worked in retail for a long time. People would come everyday and say "I can get these for almost half as much online." The answer was always, "Then sir, I believe you may be in the wrong place." No offense meant to those who are constantly on the hunt for the best prices, but you must recognize that you're not the only clients a store may have. I also had guys come in nearly everyday and say "I want a box of the most expensive cigar you've got." Or, "I want a box of whatever you recommend is good, don't care about the pricing as long as you say it's good." And would gladly pay it without blinking an eye.

While it's nice to fantasize about the customer always being right, that's in regards to customer service. Not pricing. Sorry to say, but when it comes to keeping the doors open and making a profit, that's a decision that the manager/owner must weigh. The truth of the matter is you have no idea what their overhead/clientele demographic/COG's/ROI/Market Position/etc/etc are and therefore telling someone how to price their cigars is comparable to telling them how to run their business. Which, quite frankly, is impolite at best, unless you have some special relationship with the manager/owner which would allow such a discussion to take place in earnest.

This is not to say that you (the consumer) have no recourse against pricing that doesn't suit you. You can simply not purchase and walk away and say "You know, I don't think the pricing is right in here for me, but thank you anyway." That's not accusatory or inflamatory, and you might be suprised how quickly some sales associates would jump to say "well, that's something we could remedy." You're also much more likely to get a deal from someone if you're not coming to them with a complaint about their pricing. And trying to grind a deal out of someone is probably going to be met with flat out "Can't do that. Or, My manager isn't here to approve a deal like that right now."

The thing is, you must know by now (Because it's not like this has happened overnight), the internet and catalog business will forever demolish Brick and Mortar pricing unless something drastic happens.

If you don't want to purchase from a B&M... Just don't. There's someone else who will.

Many people forget that B&Ms have significantly higher operating costs, plus a higher rate for cigars than online vendors(factory direct pricing, as well as bulk deals). Not to mention taxes. It comes off as just flat out rude and pompous to straight up say to someone "Well I can get this much cheaper online!" to a worker in a B&M, who, more often than not, has no control over the pricing.

poker · 08-28-2012, 07:59 AM

Personally, if the cigar shop I plan to visit has a lounge that I will use while there, I will purchase a cigar from them to support them. If I do not plan on using their lounge at all, I have no obligation to support them if I feel their prices are out of line.

True story:

Quote:

Originally Posted by poker

Just happened not 15 minutes ago. Went to grab a sandwich at Subway here in Newbury Park and noticed there was a new B&M tobacco shop (Tobacco Royale) in the same strip mall. Walked in just to take a look around as its been a while since I stepped into a B&M.
Fuente Short Stories @ 8.95 a pop...not too out of line for SoCal I guess, when my eyes locked onto a full intact box of Fuente Fuente Opus X's. No price on the cigars.

I walk out and ask how much just out of curiousity.
He says "50"
I say "Excuse me?"
He says "50"
I say "each?"
He says "yes, 50 ea"
I say "seriously?"
He says "how much you normally pay?"
I say quietly to myself "holy crap"
He says "I give you discount if you buy whole box"
I quietly exit as he tries to call his boss to get a box discount.

Holy cow, I thought I was Vegas for a minute.

mosesbotbol · 08-28-2012, 11:53 AM

You can ask the B&M owner if he'll cut you a break on a box and mention where you saw them and for how much. I know of instances where I saw cigars much cheaper than the B&M and their response was "Can you get me some too, that's as cheap as I paid".

08-30-2012, 07:13 PM

I live just a stone's throw from New Hampshire, where there is NO sales tax, except for dining. This new B&M that opened just a few weeks ago is looking to compete against a large veteran and will sell to me for what I pay on line as long as I make up the difference that I pay for shipping. That was what I actually proposed and they are good with it.

08-27-2012, 05:51 AM	#1
kelmac07 Resident Maduro Whore!! Join Date: Apr 2009 First Name: Mac Location: Newport News, VA Posts: 27,322 Trading: (218)	Re: Does this seem right to you? I'm with the majority here. I really do want to support my local B&M, so I stop in periodically to pick up a few sticks (new releases I want to try) and if I enjoy them, I'll buy a box online. Best time to buy boxes from a B&M are during cigar events. While I don't like the mark up...fully understand it. Now for the folks in the high tax states...I feel for ya brothers. __________________ Dom in the MLB thread "I could probably get you to wear a Yankee hat for a Maduro!"

08-27-2012, 06:33 AM	#2
Subvet642 Bilge Rat Join Date: Nov 2009 First Name: Darren Location: Torpedo Room Bilge Posts: 2,997 Trading: (13)	Re: Does this seem right to you? I think I'm also in the majority here. The B&M in my neighborhood has good prices and sells at MSRP, even Opus, but if a B&M decides to mark-up their prices to ridiculous levels, then why should I (or anyone else) support them? Customer loyalty isn't automatic, nor should it be, but it must be reciprocal; a business gets my loyalty when they earn it. __________________ *"Man's mind is his basic tool of survival. Life is given to him, survival is not." -John Galt*

08-27-2012, 08:40 AM	#3
mosesbotbol That's a Corgi Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Moses Location: Boston Posts: 6,171 Trading: (6)	Re: Does this seem right to you? How are there prices on cigars you are familiar with? Maybe he had to pay a premium to get them, hence the high price? Maybe the high price is push customers to another cigar instead? __________________ Port Wine & Claret \| British Cars \| Welsh Corgi's

08-27-2012, 09:27 AM	#4
Remo C.I.A Join Date: Feb 2011 First Name: Mike Location: Palm Harbor, Florida Posts: 12,597 Trading: (122)	Re: Does this seem right to you? Utah is like 400 % tax...no local buying for me __________________

08-27-2012, 09:52 AM	#5
czerbe Just a Traveling Man Join Date: Apr 2012 First Name: Corey Location: Reading Pa Posts: 1,309 Trading: (2)	Re: Does this seem right to you? I always try and buy local but for larger quanities I buy online its just the was it is.. Although if you guys want to support a B&M and not shop at a Super Store there are a couple out there that have really good pricing and will ship to your door, Buckhead Cigar in Atlanta, and Burns in TN two great places I buy smokes from online that are B&M __________________ Live fast, hard, everyday like its your last.

08-27-2012, 12:23 PM	#6
N2 GOLD MIND OVER MATTER... Join Date: Feb 2011 First Name: RICO Location: So. CAL 33° 44' 44" N / 117° 52' 0" W Posts: 2,330 Trading: (1)	Re: Does this seem right to you? I order about 95% of my stuff online. The main reason is because of the DEALS one can get via online shopping. From time to time I do walk-in to B&M's but to see what they have in stock & so check out the price range they offer. I'll buy loose sticks & give myself a $$ limit but never buy a full box with the retail mark-up. I look for new sticks to try which is why I go the my local shops. But, for boxes/bulk online has the best deals. IMO I think most B&M's have extreme pricing. Which is why I limit my spending at B&M's. __________________ When I want your opinion, I'll give it to ya. Last edited by N2 GOLD; 08-27-2012 at 12:33 PM.

08-27-2012, 04:28 PM	#10
The Poet Il megglior fabbro Join Date: Jun 2009 First Name: Thomas Location: Hickory, NC Posts: 8,420 Trading: (2)	Re: Does this seem right to you? Perhaps this true story will shed some light on some of the questions above . . . and perhaps not. Remember those Webkins things, those "beanie baby"-type stuffed toys with the web code that let kids go online to adopt and interact with the characters? They became a redhot fad for a time. Well, a woman who'd just taken over a long-established shop here in town wanted to get into this fad, but could not find a wholesale supplier of these toys that still had them in stock. So she went online to purchase them, thus to be able to offer them to her potential customers. This meant that, instead of paying a few dollars for them, then marking them up to the "normal" retail of $8-$12, she was purchasing many of the most-popular characters for $25-$30, then turning around and selling (or trying to sell them) for $50-$60 each. A man from a neighboring town came in with his little girl, who "just had to have" one particular of these, but when the father saw the price he flipped out about the gouging the woman was attempting . . . to the point where he actually ended up in jail for threatening the woman's life. Now, she was an idiot for thinking her idea of buying merchandise at inflated prices was a proper business plan. The father was triply an idiot for allowing his daughter to wrap him about his finger so completely, for getting so angry at the woman for charging what she wished for something noboby actually needed anyway, and mainly for letting his mouth write his @$$ a ticket to the pokey. And the little girl? Well, she at least had the excuse of youth for her idiocy. A "hot" cigar which a local B&M cannot easily acquire may have put this owner into the same situation. Does that make him dishonest? No, not if his aim is to satisfy his customer's demands. Does that make him foolish? No, not if he manages to sell the product at an inflated price. Does that make him in danger? In this day and age, perhaps so. __________________ Ninety percent of everything is crap - Theodore Sturgeon.

08-27-2012, 07:52 PM	#11
Cav22 Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Does this seem right to you? I know when I worked at a cigar shop the price was based on taxes plus a slight markup for profit. As the taxes kept going up the owner would lower the profit margin to keep the customers from paying to high of a price. Online you can get away with lower prices because you dont have to pay the same tax as you would at a retail shop.

08-28-2012, 06:20 AM	#12
Ranger_B Have My Own Room Join Date: Apr 2009 First Name: Frank Location: North Carolina Posts: 1,321 Trading: (31)	Re: Does this seem right to you? I would buy more from my B&M if he would update his selection with more of the "boutique" lines. But when it comes to padrons, fuentes, ashtons I go to him. I also grab all my pipe tobacco from my local shop. The owner is a great guy and prices very fairly he just doesnt have to space and has an old clientele that stick to the more traditional brands that take up a ton of space in his small humidor. So newer stuff I get online and then my regular smokes I get from him. __________________ http://www.cigarrights.org/

08-28-2012, 06:57 AM	#13
dave Have My Own Room Join Date: May 2011 First Name: Dave Location: Northern VA Posts: 1,180 Trading: (15)	Re: Does this seem right to you? I don't frequent B&M's often, but when I do go into one (any one), I always buy at least one cigar. I think they serve a purpose and I like to support them (a little anyway.) I agree completely with R. Agent. I really cannot understand anybody getting upset over pricing at any one shop. Short of wide-spread collusion, I say let the market do its thing. I, and the other patrons, will judge with our wallets.

08-29-2012, 01:18 PM	#16
ninjavanish Feeling at Home Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Trust me, your humi isn't big enough. Posts: 507 Trading: (16)	Re: Does this seem right to you? I feel like you guys may be forgetting that for every price hound out there, there's some guy who knows no better or has enough money that he doesn't care about the price and/or is willing to pay whatever price to get whatever it is that he wants. I mean, I worked in retail for a long time. People would come everyday and say "I can get these for almost half as much online." The answer was always, "Then sir, I believe you may be in the wrong place." No offense meant to those who are constantly on the hunt for the best prices, but you must recognize that you're not the only clients a store may have. I also had guys come in nearly everyday and say "I want a box of the most expensive cigar you've got." Or, "I want a box of whatever you recommend is good, don't care about the pricing as long as you say it's good." And would gladly pay it without blinking an eye. While it's nice to fantasize about the customer always being right, that's in regards to customer service. Not pricing. Sorry to say, but when it comes to keeping the doors open and making a profit, that's a decision that the manager/owner must weigh. The truth of the matter is you have no idea what their overhead/clientele demographic/COG's/ROI/Market Position/etc/etc are and therefore telling someone how to price their cigars is comparable to telling them how to run their business. Which, quite frankly, is impolite at best, unless you have some special relationship with the manager/owner which would allow such a discussion to take place in earnest. This is not to say that you (the consumer) have no recourse against pricing that doesn't suit you. You can simply not purchase and walk away and say "You know, I don't think the pricing is right in here for me, but thank you anyway." That's not accusatory or inflamatory, and you might be suprised how quickly some sales associates would jump to say "well, that's something we could remedy." You're also much more likely to get a deal from someone if you're not coming to them with a complaint about their pricing. And trying to grind a deal out of someone is probably going to be met with flat out "Can't do that. Or, My manager isn't here to approve a deal like that right now." The thing is, you must know by now (Because it's not like this has happened overnight), the internet and catalog business will forever demolish Brick and Mortar pricing unless something drastic happens. If you don't want to purchase from a B&M... Just don't. There's someone else who will.

08-28-2012, 11:53 AM	#19
mosesbotbol That's a Corgi Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Moses Location: Boston Posts: 6,171 Trading: (6)	Re: Does this seem right to you? You can ask the B&M owner if he'll cut you a break on a box and mention where you saw them and for how much. I know of instances where I saw cigars much cheaper than the B&M and their response was "Can you get me some too, that's as cheap as I paid". __________________ Port Wine & Claret \| British Cars \| Welsh Corgi's

08-30-2012, 07:13 PM	#20
splattttttt Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Does this seem right to you? I live just a stone's throw from New Hampshire, where there is NO sales tax, except for dining. This new B&M that opened just a few weeks ago is looking to compete against a large veteran and will sell to me for what I pay on line as long as I make up the difference that I pay for shipping. That was what I actually proposed and they are good with it.