Should Penn State get the Death Penalty? - Page 5

jcruse64 · 07-22-2012, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by E.J.

Though we disagree on the NCAA's responsibility to step in here with sanctions, I am 100% in agreement that the Student Athletes should have the ability to get an outright release from their commitment to the school and be allowed to play at whatever NCAA institution they choose w/ financials(assuming they were offered elsewhere).

I'll go a step further, even without NCAA sanctions, these Students Athletes should be allowed immediate transfer to another institution without penalty due to the perceived stain of PSU. If they didn't want to play under that cloud, they shouldn't have to.

+2; right with you on that one. This was all a leadership failure, nothing on the student-athlete at all, and they should be given every chance to continue their opportunities unabated at another school. They did nothing to deserve a cloud over their heads; Penn State leadership, in effect, hurt them also, though nowhere near what happened with those poor boys.

smitty81 · 07-23-2012, 07:28 AM

I think the sanctions were pretty fair. I do believe it's going to basically kill the team for a few years.

No post season games/bowl games for 4 years.
Scholarships went from 25-15 for 4 years.
Students may transfer immediatly and still play.
School must give up 60 million dollars.
A vacation of all wins dating to 1998 & The career record of former head football coach Joe Paterno will reflect these vacated records.

BigAsh · 07-23-2012, 07:32 AM

An example was definitely made...

Taki · 07-23-2012, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigAsh

An example was definitely made...

Couldn't agree more...

King James · 07-23-2012, 07:50 AM

It'll be interesting to read what part of the NCAA Manual they used to to impose the penalties (if they said it in the press conference, I missed it)

smitty81 · 07-23-2012, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King James

It'll be interesting to read what part of the NCAA Manual they used to to impose the penalties (if they said it in the press conference, I missed it)

Read this. Not exactly what your looking for, in fact, seems they are kind of beating around the bush about giving a direct reason.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/...ns-dating-1998

Here are some other things I missed.

With the wins from 1998-2011 vacated, Paterno drops from 409 wins to 298, dropping him from first to 12th on the winningest NCAA football coach list. Penn State will also have six bowl wins and two conference championships erased.

The Big Ten will also sanction Penn State. The conference has called an 11 a.m. ET news conference to announce to league-related penalties

King James · 07-23-2012, 08:21 AM

Found this article, too.

‎"NCAA president Mark Emmert gained approval from the board of directors for the penalties. The board is made up of 22 college presidents and chancellors" ... "Emmert said Penn State has signed a consent decree in regard to the penalties"

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaaf--...ild-abuse.html

Blueface · 07-23-2012, 08:22 AM

Tremendous spanking to send a clear message.

smitty81 · 07-23-2012, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigAsh

An example was definitely made...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blueface

Tremendous spanking to send a clear message.

Yes, but I think it was a reasonable punishment.

King James · 07-23-2012, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smitty81

Yes, but I think it was a reasonable punishment.

As you know, I still disagree on the NCAA being involved. But since the NCAA has gotten involved, I don't mind vacating the wins or the 60 million dollar fine.

smitty81 · 07-23-2012, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King James

As you know, I still disagree on the NCAA being involved. But since the NCAA has gotten involved, I don't mind vacating the wins or the 60 million dollar fine.

What about the other punishments from the NCAA?

-No post season games/bowl games for 4 years.
-Scholarships went from 25-15 for 4 years.
-Students may transfer immediatly and still play.

There are still more punishments to follow this afternoon as well.

Blueface · 07-23-2012, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smitty81

Yes, but I think it was a reasonable punishment.

Totally agree.

Starscream · 07-23-2012, 08:59 AM

Am I the only one who doesn't agree with the wins being vacated? I'm not trying to defend Paterno here, but leaving his winning record intact would be a learning opportunity for a lot of young athletes and coaches. It would show for future generations that sports isn't everything. Look at what this guy did on the field, and then look at what he was capable of when no one was looking.

smitty81 · 07-23-2012, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starscream

Am I the only one who doesn't agree with the wins being vacated? I'm not trying to defend Paterno here, but leaving his winning record intact would be a learning opportunity for a lot of young athletes and coaches. It would show for future generations that sports isn't everything. Look at what this guy did on the field, and then look at what he was capable of when no one was looking.

I guess I don't see your reasoning.

That would be like saying that we will let USC remain the national champs although they were paying their players to play for them and their heisman trophy winner that was also paid was a big reason why they won.

Why should they get to keep their wins. Who's to say they would have won without Paterno?

Why should they get to keep awards and records they otherwise maybe wouldn't of gotten without paterno.

Thats like saying, it's ok to cheat and do wrong behind the NCAA's back, you will still get a bowl ring to keep.

Starscream · 07-23-2012, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smitty81

I guess I don't see your reasoning.

That would be like saying that we will let USC remain the national champs although they were paying their players to play for them and their heisman trophy winner that was also paid was a big reason why they won.

Why should they get to keep their wins. Who's to say they would have won without Paterno?

Why should they get to keep awards and records they otherwise maybe wouldn't of gotten without paterno.

Thats like saying, it's ok to cheat and do wrong behind the NCAA's back, you will still get a bowl ring to keep.

But there was no cheating going on in this case.
Yes, everyone involved are all creeps and douchebags, and they deserved to be punished, but erasing records is just the easy way out, so we won't have to talk about what happened in the future. At most, put an asterisk beside those wins, kinda like Barry Bonds' accomplishments.

I'm not suggesting that the wins stay intact to glorify anyone or to keep anyone's legacy intact. In fact, I'm suggesting keeping the wins in place so that future generations can look back and see that winners on the field aren't always good people. Erasing this is the easy way out.

forgop · 07-23-2012, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starscream

But there was no cheating going on in this case.

In every sense of the word, it was cheating and brings home the lack of institutional control. Covering up child rape because of the fear of the negative publicity and to protect the image of the football program, you are committing far worse infractions than what can be done typically in the recruiting/academic means.

68TriShield · 07-23-2012, 10:06 AM

I disagree Andy.
Any win during the time they were covering up for Sandusky,should be and was erased.
Too bad for the players, because they had no knowledge of what was happening.
Joe Paterno had more important things to consider than his record or saving face of the program.It's inhumane,just plain inhumane of all those involved.

smitty81 · 07-23-2012, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starscream

But there was no cheating going on in this case.
Yes, everyone involved are all creeps and douchebags, and they deserved to be punished, but erasing records is just the easy way out, so we won't have to talk about what happened in the future. At most, put an asterisk beside those wins, kinda like Barry Bonds' accomplishments.

I'm not suggesting that the wins stay intact to glorify anyone or to keep anyone's legacy intact. In fact, I'm suggesting keeping the wins in place so that future generations can look back and see that winners on the field aren't always good people. Erasing this is the easy way out.

I see what your getting at but leaving those wins there does nothing but glorify the school, players and coaches.

Starscream · 07-23-2012, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smitty81

I see what your getting at but leaving those wins there does nothing but glorify the school, players and coaches.

Then put an asterisk by those wins.

Should we then take away all of the Giants' wins b/c Barry cheated while playing for them?

Whee · 07-23-2012, 11:00 AM

07-23-2012, 07:28 AM	#2
smitty81 Have My Own Room Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 1,640 Trading: (10)	Re: Should Penn State get the Death Penalty? I think the sanctions were pretty fair. I do believe it's going to basically kill the team for a few years. No post season games/bowl games for 4 years. Scholarships went from 25-15 for 4 years. Students may transfer immediatly and still play. School must give up 60 million dollars. A vacation of all wins dating to 1998 & The career record of former head football coach Joe Paterno will reflect these vacated records.

07-23-2012, 07:32 AM	#3
BigAsh Don't knock the Ash... Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Keith Location: Yardley, PA Posts: 5,055 Trading: (46)	Re: Should Penn State get the Death Penalty? An example was definitely made... __________________ Keith

07-23-2012, 07:50 AM	#5
King James Regard Me! Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Jim Location: Dark Side Of The Moon Posts: 2,565 Trading: (2)	Re: Should Penn State get the Death Penalty? It'll be interesting to read what part of the NCAA Manual they used to to impose the penalties (if they said it in the press conference, I missed it) __________________ Mob Herfin' Since 2006

07-23-2012, 08:21 AM	#7
King James Regard Me! Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Jim Location: Dark Side Of The Moon Posts: 2,565 Trading: (2)	Re: Should Penn State get the Death Penalty? Found this article, too. ‎"NCAA president Mark Emmert gained approval from the board of directors for the penalties. The board is made up of 22 college presidents and chancellors" ... "Emmert said Penn State has signed a consent decree in regard to the penalties" http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaaf--...ild-abuse.html __________________ Mob Herfin' Since 2006

07-23-2012, 08:22 AM	#8
Blueface Gramps 4x's Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Horatio Seymore Hiny Location: Boca Raton - North of La Habana Posts: 8,774 Trading: (8)	Re: Should Penn State get the Death Penalty? Tremendous spanking to send a clear message. __________________ Little known fact: I am a former member of the Village People - The Indian

07-23-2012, 08:59 AM	#13
Starscream Knowhutimean, Vern? Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Andy Location: In a little town somewhere in the USA Posts: 10,237 Trading: (4)	Re: Should Penn State get the Death Penalty? Am I the only one who doesn't agree with the wins being vacated? I'm not trying to defend Paterno here, but leaving his winning record intact would be a learning opportunity for a lot of young athletes and coaches. It would show for future generations that sports isn't everything. Look at what this guy did on the field, and then look at what he was capable of when no one was looking. __________________ Insert quote here.

07-23-2012, 10:06 AM	#17
68TriShield Got Torque? Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Dave Location: Maryland Posts: 7,194 Trading: (40)	Re: Should Penn State get the Death Penalty? I disagree Andy. Any win during the time they were covering up for Sandusky,should be and was erased. Too bad for the players, because they had no knowledge of what was happening. Joe Paterno had more important things to consider than his record or saving face of the program.It's inhumane,just plain inhumane of all those involved.

07-23-2012, 11:00 AM	#20
Whee formerly illinoishoosier Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Sean Location: Bishopville, SC Posts: 3,592 Trading: (17)	Re: Should Penn State get the Death Penalty? __________________ "Maybe I'm wrong, when they tell me they're right…..naaaaahhhhhh, I'm an asshooooooleeee"--Denis Leary