LOST Notes

[Beagleone]

Well, I knew Juliet wasn't returning next season. Nice way to go out and making sure zhe doesn't return at all!

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Beagleone

Well, I knew Juliet wasn't returning next season. Nice way to go out and making sure zhe doesn't return at all!

How did you know that? When they showed the eye opening in the "preview" I thought it could of been her waking up. Of course, it happened so quickly that I don't know that for sure.

[Beagleone]

There was something in Entertainment Weekly about the actress (Elizabeth Mitchell) who was working on new pilot shows for next season. The speculation was that she wouldn't be on the final season, and usually they would be killed off to close the character line.

[kaisersozei]

That was the best season ending cliffhanger of any show that I have seen in a long, long time. Excellent!

And I have to admit: I did get a little choked up by the final Juliet-Sawyer scene. Noooooooooo!!!!

[Ollie]

Wasn't this the first season finale without a Walt sighting?

[ActionAndy]

Originally Posted by Ollie

Wasn't this the first season finale without a Walt sighting?

Indeed. I know it's a tv show and certain things are out of their control, but I hate knowing that stuff that seemed very crucial in the first few seasons turned out to be so irrelevant. Like the numbers, Walt, etc...

[ucla695]

Great season finale. Of course, they raised more questions than they answered. Now we just have to wait 7 or so months to see how it all comes together.

Originally Posted by kaisersozei

That was the best season ending cliffhanger of any show that I have seen in a long, long time. Excellent!

And I have to admit: I did get a little choked up by the final Juliet-Sawyer scene. Noooooooooo!!!!

Say it isn't so.

[kugie]

Jacobs Last words their coming. This was an awesome ending the best.

And a heads up The Kate and Juliet topic.
I would do them both again.

[dunng]

Any notes? Thanks Bao!

[Mugen910]

Originally Posted by dunng

Any notes? Thanks Bao!

Chit..I'm so sorry... I've got 3 emails worth of updates.

[JE3146]

No podcast? I'm curious to read stuff now

[Cigargal]

go here for a fix - -> http://forum.lostpedia.com/index.php

[dunng]

Originally Posted by Mugen910

Chit..I'm so sorry... I've got 3 emails worth of updates.

[Mugen910]

Subject: LOST 5, ep. 16 "The Incident" part 1
I have a lot about this finale... I'll save the larger theories for the next emails. They mostly relate to Jacob and anti-Jacob (that's what I'll call the man in the black shirt from the beach who later takes Locke's form). The morning after the show I was sure this was a Christ/ Anti-Christ story but now I'm thinking it won't be that specific. I think the whole show is about good vs evil (personified as these 2 men) with many different religions/ philosophies being combined. I got most of this information from a DarkUFO blog and the Doc Jenson analysis... sprinkled with some message board debate and my own thoughts.
Part 1.

1. The statue is still up for debate: It's either Sobek or Taweret. See attached photos. Quick summaries... it was Sobek who first came out of the waters of chaos to create the world. Sobek also came to symbolize the produce of the Nile and the fertility that it brought to the land. He was also said to call on suitable gods and goddesses required for protecting people in situation, effectively having a more distant role, nudging things along, rather than taking an active part. He was also shown with an ankh (as seen in Paul's necklace), representing his ability to undo evil and so cure ills. Sobek was a morally ambiguous god who oversees dark waters and preys on sinful souls in the afterlife (like Smokey?). Even worse, Set, the Egyptian god of chaos and evil, was a shape shifter who often morphed into crocodiles and hippos in his clashes with archenemy Horus. Set was linked to infertility and was partial to fish and lettuce. We first see Jacob eating fish wrapped in greens.

Taweret was depicted as a composite of all the things the Egyptians feared, the major part of her being hippopotamus, with the arms and legs of a lioness, and with the back of a crocodile. On occasion, later, rather than having a crocodile back, she was seen as having a separate, small crocodile resting on her back, which was thus interpreted as Sobek, the crocodile-god, and said to be her consort. Taweret became seen, very early in Egyptian history, as a deity of protection in pregnancy and childbirth.

2. Jacob and Anti-Jacob on the beach: Jacob wants the Black Rock ship to come to the island. Anti-Jacob does not. He claims that people have always arrived bringing corruption, war, etc. Jacob has more faith in humanity and says that he chalks all that up to progress, meaning that there will be an end... eventually visitors will come and CHOOSE to do the right thing. He feels that man keeps getting it wrong but eventually will get it right.

In that beach conversation the Anti-Jacob was trying to convince Jacob that man/mankind simply wasn't worth it. However, it appears that Jacob has been bringing people to the island for a very, very long time. "They come, they fight, they destroy, they corrupt"... these are the points Anti-Jacob makes to indicate once again that Jacob will fail to prove him wrong. Anti-Jacob seems to suggest that the darker sides of human nature won't allow the circle to be broken. No matter who's on the ship, or the next ship, (or the airplane...) "It always ends the same". Jacob's response: "It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress".
The dark man is resigned to the fact that LOST's loop will never be broken. He argues that man's destructive history and propensity for war will never allow anything but corruption. And with that he wants Jacob dead... but must find a loophole to make it happen. Apparently they cannot physically kill each other.

The Biblical story states that Jacob was the younger brother of Esau. Esau was a hunter and his father's favorite, Jacob was more of a thinker. When their father was dying, Jacob tricked him into giving Jacob Esau's birthright. That could be the significance of the name Jacob. Maybe the guy we saw at the beginning hated Jacob because Jacob stole everything that was his (the island). It says in the Bible that God wanted Jacob to be the leader and receive the birthright. I don't think the Anti-Jacob is Esau but I wanted to include this story as it may have some relevance. In the Bible Jacob blesses his children by touching them and subsequently makes them leaders. As we see later, LOST's Jacob touches the 815ers in flashbacks.

3. The Tapestry: See attached. Jacob is weaving it... much like he is weaving (intricately) the Losties' lives so they will subsequently come to this island. I think he wanted to bring this group of people to the island all along... with them John Locke, who he knew would be used as a vehicle for his enemy to kill him. I think Jacob planned for this all along. More on that in another email.

Also, he left part of the tapestry in the cabin as a signal for where Ilana's crew can find him.

The phrases on the tapestry have been translated. They are from Homer's Odyssey. The top quote reads "may the gods grant thee all that thy heart desires". Another passage is woven into the middle of the tapestry. It can be only partly seen, but the passage in full reads, "may the gods grant thee happiness". It occurs twice in the Odyssey.

[Mugen910]

Subject: LOST 5, ep. 16 "The Incident" part 2
Part 2.

1. Rose and Bernard (and Vincent!) at the cabin: So cute. Rose "It's always something with you people."

2. Lapidus, Bram and Ilana: What is Lapidus a candidate for? To be on the "good guy team?" I love how his eyes/ eyebrows do as much acting as he does. Bram and Ilana surprisingly do appear to be "good," and are on Jacob's side. There goes the "they are Dharma trying to reorganize" theory. So does that mean Widmore is aligned with Anti-Jacob, as Bram warned Miles that he should NOT go on Widmore's mission? Oh, remember how Bram said that it was Miles' choice and that Miles needed to NOT WANT TO GO? Bram is, like Jacob, depending on free will... the right to choose, the ability to do the right thing. That being said, Widmore still confuses me.

3. Smokey/ Anti-Jacob: I think they are one in the same. I think Smokey/ Anti-Jacob can only take the form of dead people (Yemi, Alex, Christian, Locke) who are not buried. That might explain why it was so important to Richard and the Others that the bodies of the hostiles who were holding Amy and Paul at gun point needed to be buried. Also, the Others gave Danny Pickett's wife (who Sun shot) a Viking burial (set her on fire at sea). This was all to keep Smokie from using their forms.

Smokey used Alex to convince Ben to follow Locke or Ben would be destroyed. Fake Locke (Smokie/ Anti-Jacob) brought Ben and Alpert to the beechcraft plane so Alpert could convince Real Locke he had to die, thus allowing Anti-Jacob to use Locke's form. The loophole (referred to on the beach in the opening scene) was getting Ben to do his dirty work, because Smokie/ Anti-Jacob can't touch Jacob himself. He realizes that he needs to get Real Locke off island in order to kill him, then use Christian to manipulate Real Locke into turning the wheel and returning to the outside world, where it knows Real Locke will be killed, while at the same time planting seeds in Real Locke's head that he'll need to die in order to come back. Ingenious!!! Fake Locke was the one who told Richard to tell Real Locke that he needed to die to bring the 815ers back! I love it!

4. Sayid: He's close to death and realizes his soul can never be saved. It doesn't really matter what Jack does, the sum of Sayid's past sins is just too great. Even if he makes it, he can never atone. As Ben said "You are a killer. It's what you do."

5. Riddle: What lies in the shadow of the statue? Translated as "He who will save us all."

6. Jacob reading Flannery O'Conner's book: As Locke was being pushed out that window, Jacob was reading the book Everything That Rises Must Converge. O'Conner typically writes stories where the righteous are skewed and exposed as hypocrites, while the worst sinners end up becoming unwitting or unwilling conduits for God's grace. The book is titled Everything That Rises Must Converge - from a phrase coined by a Catholic provocateur named Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, who concocted a theory of evolution called "Omega Point." Basically, it's the idea that there is some kind of transcendent entity or consciousness that is guiding everyone and everything toward greater complexity and enlightenment, until everyone and everything becomes transcendent, too. More simply, it's Jacob's view: There is a single end; everything before then is progress (as he said in the beginning). Chardin believed his Omega entity was basically Jesus Christ himself. His phrase, "everything that rises must converge," is a poetical expression of a key Christian idea known in the Greek apokatastasis. It's like the opposite of apocalypse, or rather, what comes after apocalypse. Apokatastasis is the idea that in the end, Satan will be defeated and that all of creation will be redeemed and unified under Christ.

7. Jacob in the 815ers' flashbacks: If you think Jacob is good, you can see these events as him being there when these people were at pivotal moments in their lives. An argument can be made for Jacob being the evil one, but since I don't believe that I'll spare you those details. I think Jacob did what he could, intervening in their lives, to ensure that eventually they would get on that original 815 flight, knowing that they would prove him right... mankind can redeem and use free will to do the right thing.

Kate: He paid her debt, telling her not to steal again.
Sayid: Jacob saved Sayid from getting struck by the car along with Nadia. Perhaps Jacob knew that Nadia had to die to help direct Sayid down his "killer" life path, working for Ben.
Locke: He walked over to Locke's body, after the fall, and touched him on the shoulder - and suddenly, Locke was very much alive. Offering an apology: "Don't worry. Everything is going to be all right. I'm sorry this happened to you."
Sawyer: Jacob offered Sawyer a pen so that Sawyer could write that infamous letter to the real Sawyer (aka Anthony Cooper).

8. Miles: When Dr. Chang's arm was injured I was so excited! The prosthetic arm explained... 4 years later!
Miles suggested that Jack's suicide-bomber act would actually produce the very ''incident'' they were trying to subvert - that they would be fulfilling history, not re-making it. At the same time, Faraday was correct with his ''human variable'' theory. There was a free radical among the time travelers, and her exercise of free will in last night's episode made all the difference: Juliet ''I changed my mind'' Burke. As a result of her Jughead-blowing anarchy, history has been rebooted. The Swan will never be built; Oceanic 815 will never crash. But the shape and form of the new time line will be determined by now-former castaways, thanks to the two gifts given to them by Jacob in the finale: a second chance at life - and the freedom to create their own destiny. Whatever that means.

You could argue that the nuke itself was always part of the original incident. Maybe this is why so much cement is poured on top of the Swan site. Maybe this is why the area gets quarantined, and everyone stationed there gets yellow suits. Maybe this is why Desmond needs to inject himself with serum every time he wakes up. All decent arguments. We'll have to wait to find out what happened when Jughead went off.

9. Seasons mirroring back on themselves: Remember how I sent out the theory that the seasons are mirroring back on themselves. 'Here's more on that from Doc Jenson...

'The Incident'' confirmed for me one of the few correct theories I've come up with this year: That season 5 was a mirror to season 2, they've been setting up a sixth season that will resemble season 1, thus completing the moebius strip narrative of Lost. ''The Incident'' certainly resembled season 2's finale, the title of which, ''Live Together, Die Alone,'' was name-checked by Juliet last night. There was a story line involving castaway treachery (Michael = Fake Locke). Both episodes shared the Four Toed Statue as a plot point, although ''The Incident'' gave us a better look at what it once looked like back in the day. Both episodes culminated with the destruction of the Hatch, perpetrated in each case by lovelorn characters hoping their sacrifice would somehow, someway save the lives of their friends. And finally, both episodes were about activating ''quibbles''. As in: A plot device, common to fantasy/science fiction, that allows a character to cheat the literal obligations of a promise, contract, or prophecy. Also see: loophole. Desmond had the failsafe.

I think Jacob's failsafe is the 815ers... using Jughead, using free will, redeeming themselves. After all, he has faith in humanity whereas Anti-Jacob does not.

[Mugen910]

Subject: LOST 5, ep. 16 "The Incident" part 3
Part 3 of 3

1. Jacob's death: I think Jacob knew/ planned on dying all along. This is why he helped the 815ers find their way in life so that eventually they would be on that 815 flight, experience everything they have experienced on the island, time-travel, the Oceanic 6 left - then came back, Locke turned the wheel, died, the Ajira 316 flight... I think Jacob knew about all of it and that it would culminate in his death. I also think that he allowed Ben to stab him for a greater purpose (think Obi Wan in Star Wars who allowed Darth Vader to strike him down).
That was the significance of Fake Locke/ Anti-Jacob's gloating line: "And you have no idea what I've gone through to be here." But what he didn't know was that Jacob had been doing some plotting of his own to counter all of his enemy's moves.

2. Jacob's cabin: Though nobody ever came right out and said it, I think we were suppose to infer from the episode that the entity that we thought was Jacob in Jacob's cabin was actually not Jacob at all. We have speculated that the cabin, with its circle of ash, is a kind of prison for the being inside it. But during Jacob's visit with Hurley, he specifically said he had never been in jail. There was also Ben's confession that he was just pretending to communicate with Jacob. In truth, he had never seen him. So, was it actually Anti-Jacob in the cabin all along? And as part of his loophole conspiracy, he duped both Locke and Ben into thinking it was Jacob inside.

3. Anti-Jacob/ Fake Locke knows he's defeated when Jacob mutters "They're coming." I don't think Jacob was referring to Ilana and Bram's group. I think he meant Jack and the 815ers. I think Fake Locke/ Anti-Jacob completely understood the significance of what Jacob was saying - and it pissed him off. which is why he angrily kicked Jacob into the fire.

4. Ben: What about me?" When Jacob redirected the question back to Ben - "What about you?" it catalyzed Ben's anger. Again, I think Jacob knew that he had to die so he goaded Ben into it. Fake Locke/ Anti-Jacob has been setting Ben up for this the whole time they've been on the island together in 2007.

5. Hurley: never corrupted by the money, nothing to repent for... he's untouchable and Anti-Jacob's worst nightmare! And what is in that guitar case???

6. Another note about Anti-Jacob as Smokey: This fits well with all the judging we've seen Smokie do throughout the show. He abhors Jacob constantly bringing in all these tainted outsiders to violate the sanctity of his island. He killed Eko for refusing to repent. He destroyed flight 815's pilot before he could radio for help... to keep other slimy corrupt humans from finding the island.

7. At the end of the show, the colors of the final LOST logo were reversed: black on white intead of white on black. LOST.

[dunng]

[ActionAndy]

I thought the guitar case was Charlie's guitar, I didn't even consider reading more into it. Hopefully it's something awesome like a tommy gun.

[JE3146]

Greatest show in history.... Period ... I am so looking forward to a box set riddled with extras lol after the series ends.
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[kugie]

Great stuff.

The next season had best be the best