The Poor Mans Behike?

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by kuzi16

there are a ton of Tatuaje fans out there and clearly they are not on this forum

Whereas I'd counter that Pete Johnson's products are probably talked about more often on this messageboard than all the other NC sticks combined. If there are cigar messageboards out there with a higher concentration of fanbois, kindly let me know so that I may avoid them like the plague.

[NeuRon]

how original pete... why dont you come up with some of your own creativity (ohwait!)

[jledou]

It would be interesting to hear if Pete started the company separate to protect his other interests from lawsuit or infringement claims coming from Habanos SA on this line.

It's all a copy cat business in a lot of ways, I am glad to hear he is not going to be copying the same pricing scheme with these

I'll give them a try, I am about 50/50 on Pete's different cigars but I am always up for trying a new cigar at least once.

[Subvet642]

Although I've only tried a few of his sticks, I've liked every one and try to always to keep them on hand. If his "copying" of things Cuban is what inspired him to make cigars in thinner ring gauges and smaller formats, then GOOD; Many other makers seem to be copying each other in the jumbo ring gauge race, and I'm not an adherent of the "Bigger is Better" philosophy.

[Trent0341]

Originally Posted by Subvet642

If his "copying" of things Cuban is what inspired him to make cigars in thinner ring gauges and smaller formats, then GOOD; Many other makers seem to be copying each other in the jumbo ring gauge race, and I'm not an adherent of the "Bigger is Better" philosophy.

I agree wholeheartedly. I'm just not a big fan of the current 6x60 craze. I prefer petite coronas and lanceros (when I have the time).

[icehog3]

Smoke what you like, like what you smoke, judge not lest ye be judged.

I prefer Cubans.

[WittyUserName]

What ever happened to imitation is the most sincere form of flattery?

Also he is a business man and whatever he is doing is working. Not only do we buy his cigars we have discussion like the one above that do nothing from spread the word for new products and lead to more cigars being bought. I think he is a brilliant.

Originally Posted by WittyUserName

What ever happened to imitation is the most sincere form of flattery?

Also he is a business man and whatever he is doing is working. Not only do we buy his cigars we have discussion like the one above that do nothing from spread the word for new products and lead to more cigars being bought. I think he is a brilliant.

Yeah the company is brilliant for stealing product and packaging formats from Cuba I think people would think of it differently if say two USA corps., CAT and Deere, were in a similar situation. Let's say Deere decides to steal Cat's colors, truck and tractor designs, ect. Would this not be ethically wrong and most certainly result in major litigation for lost profits?? That's just how I look at it I guess. And yeah I know it's Cuba, but it still doesn't make it right for someone here to steal their ideas and make money off it.

[OLS]

Originally Posted by ChicagoWhiteSox

And yeah I know it's Cuba, but it still doesn't make it right for someone here to steal their ideas and make money off it.

As much as I would like to agree with you on this, Cuba HAS no ideas. Everything they have,
they stole from people that they frightened so bad that they had to flee for their lives.
They DO have Cohiba.

YES, Behike is a Cuban innovation on a Cuban brand without claim from any competing original brand-
holder, but 90% of everything else they do every day is based on a lie. (All your brands are belong to us.)

This might sound odd coming from me who JUST said cuban cigars are the best, and I HATE WITH
WHITE HOT PASSION the current cigars from the supposed actual current owners of the original
brands, to whom which legal title to the original brands and trademarked iconography passed to.
TO ME they all taste like clones, each as mediocre as the next. There is someone here who screams
when I say it everytime, but I still believe it.

But I also still criticize PJ for his blatant intellectual property theft, although indeed imitation is the
sincerest form of flattery. So in the end, it's all just gang warfare, like congress. Polarization
based on firm belief and intransigence. Sure makes for a great thread blow-up, don't it?

[Cornrow_Wallis]

Originally Posted by OLS

As much as I would like to agree with you on this, Cuba HAS no ideas. Everything they have,
they stole from people that they frightened so bad that they had to flee for their lives.
They DO have Cohiba.

YES, Behike is a Cuban innovation on a Cuban brand without claim from any competing original brand-
holder, but 90% of everything else they do every day is based on a lie. (All your brands are belong to us.)

This might sound odd coming from me who JUST said cuban cigars are the best, and I HATE WITH
WHITE HOT PASSION the current cigars from the supposed actual current owners of the original
brands, to whom which legal title to the original brands and trademarked iconography passed to.
TO ME they all taste like clones, each as mediocre as the next. There is someone here who screams
when I say it everytime, but I still believe it.

But I also still criticize PJ for his blatant intellectual property theft, although indeed imitation is the
sincerest form of flattery. So in the end, it's all just gang warfare, like congress. Polarization
based on firm belief and intransigence. Sure makes for a great thread blow-up, don't it?

Thank you.

[neoflex]

Last time I chime in here but wasn't the ring size of the Behikes something that they made to fill in a void so they can cash in on a segment that they were missing out on that the NC manufacturers created and the demand grew at an amazingly fast pace here in the U.S.? These larger ring sizes are out of the norm for Cuban marcas so it does work both ways but I do realize that in this discussion it's apples and oranges as Pete is replicating the the exact size and shape and giving each a similar name to the Behike. Just kind of pointing it out as it was brought up a couple times how the NC market is always ripping off the Cuban marcas.
OLS, you should give some of the brands you mentioned a try as most of their lines are not all about just delivering power without any other substance. Yes, they offer a large amount of fuller bodied smokes but most are not busting at the seams with power. I honestly see that segment/demand starting to fade a little bit in the NC market. Guys are looking for more substance than just a powerhouse lately Pepin(Pete, same boat), JD and AJ offer some great smokes/blends that offer great flavor and complexity.

[T.G]

That sounds more like General Cigar and Altadis with their Partagas, Montecristo, Punch, RyJ and every other marque name, band and box art duplicated.

[Subvet642]

Originally Posted by T.G

That sounds more like General Cigar and Altadis with their Partagas, Montecristo, Punch, RyJ and every other marque name, band and box art duplicated.

And no one has to ask if you're talking about NC or CC Tats.

[OLS]

Neo, You are right, I do seem out of touch on the current scene using Nicaraguan tobacco.
My first taste of it was a Padron, and I think they blend it about as well as it can be blended.
Once the LFD super Ligero bombs came out 10-12 years ago, and everyone had to blend cigars
so strong and manly, the Nicaraguan cigars I have seen evolve from that impetus have
not been to my liking. I DO like Nicaraguan tobacco, but I do not like seeing it blended
with so much emphasis on power. I do not think you can do both power and flavor and
do it in good balance. Lots of companies claim to be doing just that, but not from where
I smoke. Cuban cigars, with all their faults, are the best tasting cigars on earth.

No wonder PJ rips them off so unabashedly.

[mosesbotbol]

Most are playing catch up with Cubans, few do something original. Cigar manufacturers are like parrots when it comes to their own products. Just about everything is a copy or compared to Havana. In terms of manufacturer and construction, many have Havana beat, but they still don’t taste like a Cuban cigar. It’s much safer copying something that is successful than taking a gamble. Someone who gambles and strikes their own niche end up in a better place.

What would be innovative would be making cigars in sizes that aren’t the norm in this market. I am sick of big ring gauge cigars. Yes, they are fun to smoke now and then, but by and large are really dull.

As for the poor man’s Behike, he should’ve exaggerated the pigtail much more than they are. It should be like a bow on a present. The wrapper shades do not look like a top end product, but I am sure they are decent smoking cigars at a minimum.

[DennisP]

Originally Posted by mosesbotbol

What would be innovative would be making cigars in sizes that aren’t the norm in this market. I am sick of big ring gauge cigars. Yes, they are fun to smoke now and then, but by and large are really dull.

It may be innovative, but would it be good business? I definitely prefer smaller RGs and under 50, but the market is driving the products. You see this in both CC and NC.

Also, Pete has done some stuff with smaller cigars both in RG and length. The El Triunfador Lancero OR is probably my favorite NC made.

[mosesbotbol]

Originally Posted by DennisP

It may be innovative, but would it be good business? I definitely prefer smaller RGs and under 50, but the market is driving the products.

In the auto business they say "there an a** for every seat". Market is also driven by what is promoted.

Connoisseurs like small ring gauge cigars. Cigar critics like small ring gauge cigars. Many B&M owner like small ring gauge cigars… All the people needed to drive a fad are all in check. What is not in check in the cigar business is forward thinking; they beat the same drum ad nauseam.

[OLS]

I alaso agree that YOU DO have to give the man credit for at least for his part keeping the narrow ring gauge
concept afloat. Cuba seems hellbent, SEEMS hell, they are hellbent to get rid of it entirely. Sometimes I think
the REASON they are ditching the small RG cigars is because they actually think that that format was responsible
for nearly bringing down the entire house after the boom. It was not the little cigars, it was the little skills in the galera.

NEO, I have to disappoint you, I ain't never goin back to the NCs. I am not a big smoker anymore and the CCs
have my full attention and all my time. I can smoke for the rest of my life "for free" and only smoke CCs. So no
more money will be spent discovering the wonderful NC cigars I am bashing without tasting, haha.

[neoflex]

Originally Posted by OLS

I can smoke for the rest of my life "for free" and only smoke CCs. So no more money will be spent discovering the wonderful NC cigars I am bashing without tasting, haha.

Can't argue with that!

[Cornrow_Wallis]

The only thing that bugs me is the way PJ is justifying his actions. If you want to make Behike clones, just do it. It's not like he is going to be taking money out of Cuban mouths. If you know what a Behike is, you aren't going to confuse the two.

The announcement he should have made was, "Yea, I like the way they look, so I'm making my own, so what?"