Kids Sent Home For Wearing American Flag

[357]

Originally Posted by pnoon

What is to be gained?

I think the biggest gain is that the other school administrators will take the student's right to free speech more seriously. Maybe they will learn that their opinion or dislike of someone's protected speech is not legal justification for revoking that person's rights.

This stuff happens in colleges as well. Check out townhall.com columnist Mike Adams. He writes 2-3 times a week about how universities only filter (punish) speech they don't like. It's rediculous, immoral, and illegal. It will continue if legal action isn't taken.

Originally Posted by 357

I think the biggest gain is that the other school administrators will take the student's right to free speech more seriously. Maybe they will learn that their opinion or dislike of someone's protected speech is not legal justification for revoking that person's rights.

This stuff happens in colleges as well. Check out townhall.com columnist Mike Adams. He writes 2-3 times a week about how universities only filter (punish) speech they don't like. It's rediculous, immoral, and illegal. It will continue if legal action isn't taken.

What he said.

[macpappy]

Wait a minute! I haven't seen any comments from the ACLU about protecting the kids rights. Oh. They are Americans displaying an American flag. The American Communist Liberties Union don't care about this.

[pnoon]

Originally Posted by akumushi

Again, I think the principal did a stupid move and I think the rule was misapplied, all I'm was saying is that the admin does have legal precident to exercise discretion over what the students wear to school, so a lawsuit might be a lose/lose situation for everybody involved

Originally Posted by ChicagoWhiteSox

I understand, and I think we agree.

Nate, Clayton expressed very well what I meant by a lawsuit being pointless.

[CigarNut]

Originally Posted by pnoon

...I don't see where a lawsuit would benefit anyone. Yes, it's a question of First Amendment rights but if the school administration admits it overreacted a lawsuit is pointless and a waste of time.

Originally Posted by ChicagoWhiteSox

Not sure a lawsuit would be pointless.

Waste of time, maybe in your opinion, but there is grounds for a lawsuit.

I think a lawsuit will happen not because it is "right" but out of pure greed. Remember, it's TAX DOLLARS that will pay for any lawsuits...

It would be best if the school just apologized and people moved on...

[akumushi]

Originally Posted by pnoon

Tragic that American kids are being punished for being American.
I have no doubt they did it to antagonize but the school definitely over-reacted.

I don't see where a lawsuit would benefit anyone. Yes, it's a question of First Amendment rights but if the school administration admits it overreacted a lawsuit is pointless and a waste of time.

Also, it's well established precident that students at school do not have full protection of the law when it comes to free speach. If an administrator decides that your t-shirt is inappropriate they can have you turn it inside out, and send you home if you refuse. It happens all the time with bandshirts that have inappropriate imagery or language, or clothing that is known for having significance to street gangs. This kind of censorship is reserved as a right for the school, and is important for student safety and maintaining a proper learning environment and a lawsuit isn't going to change that even if the rules were misapplied in this case. The whole incident is unfortunate for everyone involved and will not do anything to help the students or the school. If anyone is to blame, IMHO, it's these kid's parents. If it wasn't their idea, they stood behind the kids and let them go to school like that instead of saying, "you know, maybe people will find your statement a little disrespectful and this isn't the best idea." Maybe next time the parents complain about the fact that there is no school bus, no library and they have to pay for the textbooks, they should think twice about filing a lawsuit against the school district.

Originally Posted by akumushi

Also, it's well established precident that students at school do not have full protection of the law when it comes to free speach. If an administrator decides that your t-shirt is inappropriate they can have you turn it inside out, and send you home if you refuse. It happens all the time with bandshirts that have inappropriate imagery or language, or clothing that is known for having significance to street gangs. This kind of censorship is reserved as a right for the school, and is important for student safety and maintaining a proper learning environment and a lawsuit isn't going to change that even if the rules were misapplied in this case. The whole incident is unfortunate for everyone involved and will not do anything to help the students or the school. If anyone is to blame, IMHO, it's these kid's parents. If it wasn't their idea, they stood behind the kids and let them go to school like that instead of saying, "you know, maybe people will find your statement a little disrespectful and this isn't the best idea." Maybe next time the parents complain about the fact that there is no school bus, no library and they have to pay for the textbooks, they should think twice about filing a lawsuit against the school district.

Would you consider wearing a shirt with the American flag on it, inappropriate and detrimental to the learning environment, and that this would fall under the reserved right of the school? By the way, Clayton, just trying to understand your stance

[akumushi]

Originally Posted by ChicagoWhiteSox

Would you consider wearing a shirt with the American flag on it, inappropriate and detrimental to the learning environment, and that this would fall under the reserved right of the school? By the way, Clayton, just trying to understand your stance

Again, I think the principal did a stupid move and I think the rule was misapplied, all I'm was saying is that the admin does have legal precident to exercise discretion over what the students wear to school, so a lawsuit might be a lose/lose situation for everybody involved

Originally Posted by akumushi

Again, I think the principal did a stupid move and I think the rule was misapplied, all I'm was saying is that the admin does have legal precident to exercise discretion over what the students wear to school, so a lawsuit might be a lose/lose situation for everybody

I understand, and I think we agree.

Originally Posted by akumushi

Again, I think the principal did a stupid move and I think the rule was misapplied, all I'm was saying is that the admin does have legal precident to exercise discretion over what the students wear to school, so a lawsuit might be a lose/lose situation for everybody involved

The administration needs to act in a non-discriminatory manner, no matter what they do.

This is not only a free speech issue, there is also a Section 1983 action here.

The question becomes why were only the students wearing the American flag sent home? Why not the students displaying the Mexican flag? This is surely just as incendiary to those who are offended by those who insist foreign holidays be celebrated in this country.

It doesn't offend me, but it does offend some. And both groups of students should have been treated equally under Section 1983.

For information purposes, the students are protected by California Education Code 48950.

[akumushi]

Originally Posted by ChicagoWhiteSox

For information purposes, the students are protected by California Education Code 48950.

When was that passed? They certainly did the "turn your t-shirt inside out" thing all the time when I was a student, so either the admin was breaking the law then too, or things have changed. Maybe they have some argument about how clothing is not a protected free speech thing? Thanks for bringing that up, now I'm intrigued about how this plays out.

[The Poet]

To an old fart like me, this is a double-sided non-issue. Was this PC? Maybe, maybe not. But decidedly, it is BS. Hell, when I was that age I would not have been sent home for wearing an American flag to school. Instead, I would have been arrested for disrespecting the flag, and the nation . . . if I was lucky. If not, I would have been shot.

It amazes me how much things have changed, but still intolerance remains a constant. A moving constant, perhaps, but constant nonetheless.

[kydsid]

The part of a lawsuit that would worry me is that technically it is illegal to wear or manufacture clothing in the image of the American Flag. Not that I object to those items but if you attack one side there are bound to bring up that in their defense.

Originally Posted by kydsid

The part of a lawsuit that would worry me is that technically it is illegal to wear or manufacture clothing in the image of the American Flag. Not that I object to those items but if you attack one side there are bound to bring up that in their defense.

I don't think that would be an issue, but what do I know, Im not an attorney. Although I know a few, actually about 60 or so.

My friend is a Mexican American and he says Cinco de Mayo isn't a real holiday anywhere but the U.S., it was cooked up by beer companies to sell more products. It gets hardly any exposure in it's own country outside of Puebla.

[AD720]

Originally Posted by AD720

Sorry I missed this Lance...I'm not really getting involved in the argument on whether or not the kids should have gotten sent home. I was just making the point that Cinco de Mayo is not a "Mexican" holiday exactly. It's holiday where Americans of Mexican decent celebrate their heritage (and college kids get drunk, but they don't really need an excuse for that ) and has become, much like St. Patricks day, an excuse for everyone to get blitzed.

Originally Posted by Darrell

My friend is a Mexican American and he says Cinco de Mayo isn't a real holiday anywhere but the U.S., it was cooked up by beer companies to sell more products. It gets hardly any exposure in it's own country outside of Puebla.

There we go. Darrell, thanks for getting that out clearer and faster than I did.

[akumushi]

Originally Posted by Darrell

My friend is a Mexican American and he says Cinco de Mayo isn't a real holiday anywhere but the U.S., it was cooked up by beer companies to sell more products. It gets hardly any exposure in it's own country outside of Puebla.

And if it's not the beer companies, it's certainly the tequila companies. Cinco De Mayo is the perfect excuse to fire up the blender and take a trip to Margaritaville

Originally Posted by akumushi

And if it's not the beer companies, it's certainly the tequila companies. Cinco De Mayo is the perfect excuse to fire up the blender and take a trip to Margaritaville

Haha. So true.

Originally Posted by akumushi

And if it's not the beer companies, it's certainly the tequila companies. Cinco De Mayo is the perfect excuse to fire up the blender and take a trip to Margaritaville

Yep