Black sheep from Holts?

[MrOneEyedBoh]

ITs all good. Internet tuff guys. I dont come here to start anything, its them on me. Its whatever tho.

Originally Posted by NCRadioMan

To educate yourself on what and how we do things here. The best advice I ever received is to read everything on the board because you will learn much more than you thought you ever would, simply by accident. Example: if you search for something and don't get exactly what you are searching for, read it anyway. There is a great chance you will learn something before you even think to ask.

Thanks for the advice, I see now... I'll just read it like you said even if I dont need it. Thanks NCRadioMan

[NCRadioMan]

Originally Posted by MrOneEyedBoh

ITs all good. Internet tuff guys. I dont come here to start anything, its them on me. Its whatever tho.

For the record, we are not internet tuff guys. Far from it. We are a family here and we are trying to get you to think for yourself and not have to hold your hand through every step of this hobby. Almost every question you have asked has been asked and answered many times. I think we have been very patient trying to help but there comes a time when jr. must spread his wings and fly. So fly, research (which is half the fun, imo) and have fun with this obsession of ours.

[Don Fernando]

Originally Posted by MrOneEyedBoh

ITs all good. Internet tuff guys. I dont come here to start anything, its them on me. Its whatever tho.

aaaaaaaah, poor baby.

[MrOneEyedBoh]

I know I see what radio was talking about. I'll just go and read everything even if it doesnt pertain to what I'm looking for.

[TheTraveler]

I don't think anyone is trying to be mean.

I think I know how you're feeling ... new to cigars and trying to make intelligent purchases instead of just buying one of everything. If you're like me you've got to stretch those dollars as far as you can. But I originally ran into the "kid in the candy store" problem - that looks good, no wait that looks good too, oh wait these look awesome, ooh what's that in the corner, and on like that till I almost had cold feet about buying anything.

Anyway, the best you can do is read as much as reasonably possible, find something on sale (or not) and take the plunge. Seriously, there are probably 500 different maduros out there and by the time you read about ALL of them and made your decision they would be discontinued!

As for the other knowledge to be found here, NCRadioMan is right. Searching for one thing can lead you down the breadcrumb trail of knowledge to nuggets you never even considered! That's just part of becoming knowledgeable about a hobby and THIS place is the best on the net for having a good knowledge base and knowledgeable smokers (FOGs are your friend!).

[Don Fernando]

I kinda like the irony that you are turning yourself into the black sheep of CA in a topic about black sheeps.

[MrOneEyedBoh]

Ill take the bashing but come on. Im done now haha Let it be. Im not troll status yet.

[pnoon]

If you are talking about being bashed then you still don't get it. Maybe one day you will.

Originally Posted by TheTraveler

I don't think anyone is trying to be mean.

I think I know how you're feeling ... new to cigars and trying to make intelligent purchases instead of just buying one of everything. If you're like me you've got to stretch those dollars as far as you can. But I originally ran into the "kid in the candy store" problem - that looks good, no wait that looks good too, oh wait these look awesome, ooh what's that in the corner, and on like that till I almost had cold feet about buying anything.

Anyway, the best you can do is read as much as reasonably possible, find something on sale (or not) and take the plunge. Seriously, there are probably 500 different maduros out there and by the time you read about ALL of them and made your decision they would be discontinued!

As for the other knowledge to be found here, NCRadioMan is right. Searching for one thing can lead you down the breadcrumb trail of knowledge to nuggets you never even considered! That's just part of becoming knowledgeable about a hobby and THIS place is the best on the net for having a good knowledge base and knowledgeable smokers (FOGs are your friend!).

[MrOneEyedBoh]

What do they dye the cigars with? and why just to mock a dark Maduro?

[T.G]

Originally Posted by MrOneEyedBoh

What do they dye the cigars with? and why just to mock a dark Maduro?

The dye is made from the crushed stalks of the tobacco plants.

"mock"? Do you mean "make"?

If so, yes, these days it's primarily for looks and color enhancements or to even out the color across splotchy/unevenly colored wrappers.

I don't think any reputable manufacturer would use the old maduro-matic steam ovens followed by a dye job of the boom days for curing wrappers anymore.

[MrOneEyedBoh]

What I meant by Mock was to "Make" ( as you said ) it seem like its a darker maduro wrapper. It just seems crazy to me that they would dye the leaves. As you said, I wouldn't see it practiced much anymore.

[T.G]

Originally Posted by MrOneEyedBoh

What I meant by Mock was to "Make" ( as you said ) it seem like its a darker maduro wrapper. It just seems crazy to me that they would dye the leaves. As you said, I wouldn't see it practiced much anymore.

That's not quite what I said - I think you might be misunderstanding two entirely different situations that I was referring to, because I didn't spell everything out.

Let me explain in a bit more detail:

Color enhanced wrappers, which are naturally fermented, are one thing. I don't really know how many manufacturers engage in this practice with their cigars. To me, this isn't such a big deal, and while I'd just as soon do without it, I don't look at it as really any different than treating a wrapper with a bethune, which is a lot more common than you might think with NC cigars. Basically, naturally fermented wrappers can be splotchy, uneven, dissimilar from wrapper to wrapper - what they are doing here is making all the wrappers fairly uniform in appearance with a normally light dye coat. Aesthetics sell. Not a big deal to me, just so long as I don't end up looking like I stole Marlin Manson's lipstick (not all dye rubs/bleeds off - done right or light, it shouldn't, heavy coats are another issue...). *shrug*

Now, the maduro-matic and dying process I mentioned, this is cheating. Instead of fermenting wrappers for weeks or months, the leaves are cooked in a steam/pressure oven to darken them. What should take weeks, takes hours. They then heavily color dye the wrapper to hide the telltale sheen from the process. Think of this as going to a fancy restaurant and ordering a $25 dinner, only to have the cook open the freezer, pull out a pre-made meal, microwave it, and then transfer it from a cardboard tray to a plate and then sprinkling chopped parsley, paprika and a bit of extra cheese/gravy/sauce/whatever to try and hide the fact that it was a "TV dinner".

I can see a reputable manufacturer using dye as a bethune or as an ingredient in one, but I have a hard time believing that any reputable manufacturer would engage in maduro-matic processes.

Hope that clears things up a bit.

[T.G]

Originally Posted by T.G

T
Color enhanced wrappers, which are naturally fermented, are one thing. I don't really know how many manufacturers engage in this practice with their cigars. To me, this isn't such a big deal, and while I'd just as soon do without it, I don't look at it as really any different than treating a wrapper with a bethune, which is a lot more common than you might think with NC cigars. Basically, naturally fermented wrappers can be splotchy, uneven, dissimilar from wrapper to wrapper - what they are doing here is making all the wrappers fairly uniform in appearance with a normally light dye coat. Aesthetics sell. Not a big deal to me, just so long as I don't end up looking like I stole Marlin Manson's lipstick (not all dye rubs/bleeds off - done right or light, it shouldn't, heavy coats are another issue...). *shrug*

crap - realized that some things came across completely different than what I had meant (like the part about how many manufacturers engage in a practice with natural wrappers, I didn't mean the use of natural wrappers, but rather the dying of naturally fermented wrappers...) anyway - tried to substitute the following edit, but ran out of time - please subsitute the following for the above quoted paragraph.

--begin

Color enhanced wrappers, which are naturally fermented, are one thing. I don't really know how many manufacturers engage in the practice of touching up naturally fermented wrappers, but I do know the practice exists. To me, this isn't such a big deal, and while I'd just as soon do without it, I don't look at it as really any different than treating a wrapper with a bethune, which, while maybe not commonplace, does occur more than one might suspect/think with NC cigars. Basically, naturally fermented wrappers can be splotchy, uneven, dissimilar from wrapper to wrapper - what they are doing here is making all the wrappers fairly uniform in appearance with a normally light dye coat. Aesthetics sell. Not a big deal to me, just so long as I don't end up looking like I stole Marlin Manson's lipstick (not all dye rubs/bleeds off - done right or light, it shouldn't, heavy coats are another issue...). *shrug*

---end

Please click me if you are new to forums in general...

[Scottw]

Originally Posted by coastietech

Please click me if you are new to forums in general...

Fookin' awesome.

[MrOneEyedBoh]

Thanks for that SERE acronym breakdown. I heard he is now in a decomission or something like that. Its like a rest period after the SERE school.

Thats Coastietech

Enhancing, dying call it what ever you want. All I know is that your lips shouldn't turn black after smoking a cigar. That's exactly what happened to me the last time I smoked a cigar from Victor Sinclair. I had black stuff on my lips where the cigar was. I didn't realize it until I looked in the mirror and saw it on my mouth. I interacted with several people at that point, they must have wondered what the heck it was.

From my understanding they do it because it's cheaper than properly aging the leaves.

[s15driftking]

i wouldn't smoke that cigar if it were laced with 100 dollar bills!

[pnoon]

Originally Posted by s15driftking

i wouldn't smoke that cigar if it were laced with 100 dollar bills!

You would if someone put a Gurkha band on it.

[s15driftking]

Originally Posted by pnoon

You would if someone put a Gurkha band on it.

I promised never to lie... Pnoon is right! but it would be deception, and I would see right through it!!!!