Kids and cleaning advice

[Mr B]

AMEN REV!!! Very well said!!

Originally Posted by BloodSpite

Mine gets no allowance. If I ask her to do something that I deem above and beyond the SOP such as "clean your room" (something like weeding my flower garden) I'll pay her for it.

Her Chores are done when we do ours as a family. Saturday mornings are for cleaning. Everybody gets assignments at our morning "briefing" over breakfast. Goal is to have all operations complete in the AO by 1200 hours. Rest of the day is for erroneous details, operations and errands that need to be completed such as grocery shopping etc.

For me, it's all about setting an expectation, and keeping it consistently the same thing every week. She knows she can trash her room..but she also knows that means she has less free time for cleaning it on Saturday if she totally destroys it. Which means no games, no out to eat etc etc.

But then I'm a bit of a buzzkill according to some when it comes to children

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This is also similar to how it works at my house.
Jobs for $$ are only offered after their regular Chores are done. The list is on the back of their doors.
If its not done, no deserts, no Ipods, no Nintendo DS..... Priveledges are earned and not to be expected. Kids these days do almost NOTHING in the way of chores and they expect to be handed everything. Not In My House, no way.
Disrespectful kids make me want to puke. I did my share of getting into trouble when I was a kid, but I cleaned my room, finished all my chores and was able to earn $$ afterwards. and I was always respectful to my parents adult friends.
Consistancy is the key!!!

[357]

My kids are younger than yours, but something I've seen that works is give them a whiteboard with chores listed on it next to their names. Have them check them off as they get them done, or have them ask you to double-check so they can get credit for it. A whiteboard like this hung in a semi-public place like the laundry room or kitchen can go a long way. It helps give them a sense of accomplishment and removes any confusion or heresay. Just like when you are at the office, put it in writing if you want it to get done.

Just my

[357]

If picking up toys is the issue, start taking them away as you pick them up. If they have a million toys, it will not be as effective at first. That said, my 3 and 5 year old pickup all of their own toys and put them in specific places. My son's cars go in one bucket, action figures in another, big toys in the toy box, etc. My daughter keeps her play dishes in one drawer, toy food in another, dress up clothes in one box, and babies in another. They know that if they don't put stuff back where it belongs, it will be taken away.


BTW, Rev is right on too. He is full of wisdom.

[Wolfgang]

[RevSmoke]

Originally Posted by Wolfgang

That picture is used in my presentation.

[RevSmoke]

A task board is a good idea - we did ours on paper for the month. When they are done, they can check if off. As they age, the chores change and the frequency of their doing things rises.

As for throwing tantrums, ignore them. Don't speak to them or address them when they do it. If you give any attention to it whatsoever, it is working. Had a son throw a tantrum in the store once, I grabbed his head and whispered in his ear, "I am leaving now, if you don't want to walk home, meet me at the car." I left the cart there in that isle and walked out of the store. I got into the car and proceeded to start the engine and back out of the parking space. By the time I got the car to the end of that parking isle, he was banging on the door. It is 15 minutes from our house to Walmart, we spent the first 10 in complete silence. He went to turn on the radio when he got in the car, and I slapped his hand away from the nob. It was silent in the car all the way home.

Never had another tantrum.

By the way, there was an MP3 player in the cart for him. The tantrum was that he didn't want that one, but a better one. He didn't even get the lesser one. In fact, didn't get it for almost a year.

Oh, the whole consistency thing - it isn't just following through, it is consistency with all your kids. The rules are the same for them all.

Peace of the Lord be with you.

[RevSmoke]

If anybody is interested, I do have the notes for my presentation. They are not everything I say, for I do ad lib additions as I go through it. However, if you'd like what I have printed, I'd be glad to e-mail them to you. Simple send me a PM with your e-mail address and I will send them off to you via e-mail attachment.

Please remember though, this presentation is distinctively Christian, and that is born out in the Bible passages that are included and my starting premise that our children are not ours (1st), but God's, and we are simply stewards entrusted with their care.

Anyway, that is stated more completely in the presentation.

If you'd like it, PM me your e-addy and I'll ship it off to you.

Peace of the Lord be with you.

[Dave128]

Very wise advice, Rev.

[Skywalker]

Rev has some very good advice. I would simply add, find something that motivates them. Punishing behavior has little effectiveness. Rewarding behavior you desire is more effective.

If they like stickers (usually children 3 to 6 years old) start giving those out or give them a star or sticker on their Chore Chart every time they complete a chore.

Older children like collecting cards (Baseball type cards). Every time they complete a task, pass out a card. My children had sticker books and later collector card books. They jumped through all kinds of hoops to get items for their collection (my wife found that cigars work for me )!

Or give them points. Track the points, after so many points for completing tasks, take them for a special treat (ice cream, movies, something they enjoy doing)!

[RevSmoke]

Originally Posted by Skywalker

Rev has some very good advice. I would simply add, find something that motivates them. Punishing behavior has little effectiveness. Rewarding behavior you desire is more effective.

If they like stickers (usually children 3 to 6 years old) start giving those out or give them a star or sticker on their Chore Chart every time they complete a chore.

Older children like collecting cards (Baseball type cards). Every time they complete a task, pass out a card. My children had sticker books and later collector card books. They jumped through all kinds of hoops to get items for their collection (my wife found that cigars work for me )!

Or give them points. Track the points, after so many points for completing tasks, take them for a special treat (ice cream, movies, something they enjoy doing)!

Actually, the evidence shows that rewarding behavior has less effect than a consistent system that has disciplinary consequences.

Although, rewarding good behavior isn't a bad thing, just don't make it the only thing.

Peace of the Lord be with you.

[hotreds]

Behikes?

[forgop]

Originally Posted by RevSmoke

Actually, the evidence shows that rewarding behavior has less effect than a consistent system that has disciplinary consequences.

Although, rewarding good behavior isn't a bad thing, just don't make it the only thing.

Peace of the Lord be with you.

That's the thing-there's a fine line between what works for most kids and figuring out exactly which one works best. That's why this has been such a difficult thing to figure out.

[RevSmoke]

A word about allowances - from my perspective.

We started allowance for a couple reasons.

First, it their money to spend on what they want to spend it on. If they want to go to the corner store and get an ice cream, as long as they have our permission, they have the $$ to do so. It teaches them financial responsibility. But even before that, they tithe from their allowance (10% to the Lord's work, which was $.20 every two weeks - yes, we gave them $2 every two weeks).

It also teaches them the value of a dollar, if they save, they can purchase those things that we refuse to spend $$ on for them. Son Tim wanted XXX style shoes, we said we'd buy QQQ style shoes. He really wanted them. We gave him the $ to buy the QQQ style (tax included), asked him if he had his $$ with him (yes he did) and told him to buy the shoes he wanted, we'd meet him at the store entrance at X:00. My wife and I smiled when we say him checking out with the QQQ style shoes. As he walked up to us, he saw our smiles and said, "The XXX weren't worth an extra $50." Wise boy.

As they get paid for certain jobs, they are learning how much work goes into their purchasing power. They did a job and got paid, wanting then to go out for a nice dinner. We decided to go dutch treat - mom & I would pay for ours, and each of them would pay for theirs. They had a nice restaurant in mind, one that we'd been too before. I decided to look up menus on the internet so they could see what it would cost them. Interestingly, they decided that Golden Corral might be a better place to go, the other was "crazy expensive... I'm not spending my money on that. I could get a couple Rapalas and some more Cleos for fishing if we went to Golden Corral instead."

Funny thing is, they now make different suggestions when we talk about family events. Money figures in and they try to plan to get the most bang for the buck. Two extra days camping? -vs- A meal at a nice restaurant?

Peace of the Lord be with you.

[BloodSpite]

Originally Posted by RevSmoke

A word about allowances - from my perspective.

We started allowance for a couple reasons.

First, it their money to spend on what they want to spend it on. If they want to go to the corner store and get an ice cream, as long as they have our permission, they have the $$ to do so. It teaches them financial responsibility. But even before that, they tithe from their allowance (10% to the Lord's work, which was $.20 every two weeks - yes, we gave them $2 every two weeks).

It also teaches them the value of a dollar, if they save, they can purchase those things that we refuse to spend $$ on for them. Son Tim wanted XXX style shoes, we said we'd buy QQQ style shoes. He really wanted them. We gave him the $ to buy the QQQ style (tax included), asked him if he had his $$ with him (yes he did) and told him to buy the shoes he wanted, we'd meet him at the store entrance at X:00. My wife and I smiled when we say him checking out with the QQQ style shoes. As he walked up to us, he saw our smiles and said, "The XXX weren't worth an extra $50." Wise boy.

As they get paid for certain jobs, they are learning how much work goes into their purchasing power. They did a job and got paid, wanting then to go out for a nice dinner. We decided to go dutch treat - mom & I would pay for ours, and each of them would pay for theirs. They had a nice restaurant in mind, one that we'd been too before. I decided to look up menus on the internet so they could see what it would cost them. Interestingly, they decided that Golden Corral might be a better place to go, the other was "crazy expensive... I'm not spending my money on that. I could get a couple Rapalas and some more Cleos for fishing if we went to Golden Corral instead."

Funny thing is, they now make different suggestions when we talk about family events. Money figures in and they try to plan to get the most bang for the buck. Two extra days camping? -vs- A meal at a nice restaurant?

Peace of the Lord be with you.

That's a phenomenal idea. I may have to orchestrate it in to our system as well.

[wayner123]

I just wanted to add that you are not only raising them to be a blessing to you and God, but to be productive and responsible members of society. The hard work now will benefit later in life when they don't have that discipline from you.

It is just my opinion, but the reward system can hurt them later in life when they don't get rewarded for a job well done. I am not saying I would cut it out or not do it personally, but it needs to be balanced to where the child doesn't always expect a reward.

[OLS]

WOW, I totally disagree, allowance is the preamble to the cruel and inhuman system of work they will
eventually become a part of. A gift is a gift tied to nothing. NOW, if you want the advice that
really works, don't ask a parent, ask the childless. I have the external OVERVIEW you are looking
for, untainted by actually living with kids. I'll tell you what works with the kid that lives downstairs from me.
I rent from his grandmother, with whom he lives. His 'job' where it relates to me, is to fill up dog bowls
with water when he passes one that is low and to pick up dog crap that is in danger of being stepped on.
He will do neither, I think because of the old 'you're not the boss of me" routine. So yesterday he says,
"you want to pitch me some baseballs?" I told him, "MAN, what a beautiful day for it, but Tuesday and
Thursday I got home from work and there was not even a molecule of water in the bowl, so I am guessing that
you don't want to have jobs like that. But like I said, you can do it or not, it's up to you, but if you don't,
you should not be looking to me to play baseball or HORSE with. That's just the way it has to be."

Yesterday he says "I found a cigar butt on the ground. You need to pick that up because of my..."
and I cut him off from likely saying "breathing problems" or some other such pollen related BS.
So I told him, "Ahh, yes, I noticed that, too, and I also saw that your dogs are leaving them all over the
yard, look there's one here, two over there, a pile of them next to my car......" I said the only thing
keeping this yard remotely liveable is me, so don't make the mistake of telling me about my one cigar butt
I left next to my grill so it could go out before I tossed it in the trash. If you want to get on the subject of
people who leave crap everywhere that trips me or rots where you left it 5 months ago, I can play that game
with you...........He's 11.

[BloodSpite]

Originally Posted by OLS

WOW, I totally disagree, allowance is the preamble to the cruel and inhuman system of work they will
eventually become a part of. A gift is a gift tied to nothing. NOW, if you want the advice that
really works, don't ask a parent, ask the childless. I have the external OVERVIEW you are looking
for, untainted by actually living with kids. I'll tell you what works with the kid that lives downstairs from me.
I rent from his grandmother, with whom he lives. His 'job' where it relates to me, is to fill up dog bowls
with water when he passes one that is low and to pick up dog crap that is in danger of being stepped on.
He will do neither, I think because of the old 'you're not the boss of me" routine. So yesterday he says,
"you want to pitch me some baseballs?" I told him, "MAN, what a beautiful day for it, but Tuesday and
Thursday I got home from work and there was not even a molecule of water in the bowl, so I am guessing that
you don't want to have jobs like that. But like I said, you can do it or not, it's up to you, but if you don't,
you should not be looking to me to play baseball or HORSE with. That's just the way it has to be."

Yesterday he says "I found a cigar butt on the ground. You need to pick that up because of my..."
and I cut him off from likely saying "breathing problems" or some other such pollen related BS.
So I told him, "Ahh, yes, I noticed that, too, and I also saw that your dogs are leaving them all over the
yard, look there's one here, two over there, a pile of them next to my car......" I said the only thing
keeping this yard remotely liveable is me, so don't make the mistake of telling me about my one cigar butt
I left next to my grill so it could go out before I tossed it in the trash. If you want to get on the subject of
people who leave crap everywhere that trips me or rots where you left it 5 months ago, I can play that game
with you...........He's 11.

[OLS]

LISTEN TO WAYNER.....it's called "Intermittent Reinforcement."
You ALWAYS have to love them unconditionally, but rewards should always be random.
Allowance, however is no reward. It is pay for child labor. My dogs are absolutely infuriating
in that a few treats in a row, just cause I bought a bag that month, makes them cuckoo!
They weren't GREETING me, they sniff both hands and THEN feign interest in me being home if
there is no treat. It was not until months of real intermittent reinforcement that I got their
attention and started seeing real improvements in their behavior. They are not my dogs, so
they had been ruined by years of dumb-owner BS.

Another thing, for Duane the OP, remember, kids have no concept of clean. Their rooms are totally
liveable to them, they eat things off the ground, they put filthy hands places they should never
go. You might want to start with the things that do not relate to that concept. It's like asking kids
to pass a French Exam for money. They don't have the concept in place. I would start with jobss
that you do NOW that they can understand the concept of like not leaving anything just dropped,
and that everything has a place. Start by leaving random things that are HUGELY important to them
in places they can't find them. It will make them nuts. Then work on the concept of "NOT where it
belongs". That leads to the concept of clean. Then one day you will find that these little chores get
done. I guess.............I have no kids. I am like a consultant. I know 150 ways to have sex and don't
know any women.

[RevSmoke]

No, allowance is not reward for doing chores. Sorry, wrong answer. It is not tied to chores in any way, shape, or form. In fact, the kids get their allowance even when they have been gone and done nothing. They got their allowance even before they had any chores.

[shilala]

I agree with Todd. It is SO important that you never go back on your word with kids. This point doesn't just teach the kids about consistancy, it teaches us about self-control and consistancy.
If one of the kids takes me to the limit and I end up saying "now, or your ass is mine", I had damn well better follow through. Thing is, if I'm using that every ten minutes, it means nothing.
I have to watch my words, as well as my tone with the kids. I make sure I speak to them with the respect I expect from them. Then when they're out of line, it means something that I've set a powerful example.