Freezing

[wayner123]

Originally Posted by RGD.

You don't want to freeze because you can taste a difference? Hold on - have to stop laughing so I can finish typing. Okay - I will send three cigars to anyone and dare that person to tell me which ones were frozen. I have done this before and no one could tell with certainty. In addition - see the note before this one - so yeah, too late.

I respect your opinions and experience greatly. However, I know of a good number of PSHC members that may disagree with you on the above.

[Drazzil]

RGD: One real quick point. As you said the chances are that the cigar, or the tobacco has been frozen at least once in its journey to your humidor The greater likelyhood is that it has been frozen perhaps multiple times...

Now here comes the sticky point. If the tobacco has been frozen, wouldn't the water crystals forming in the tobacco do something to displace the oils and change the balance of the taste of the tobacco? Water and oil don't mix, and I am guessing that freezing probabally does change the taste of tobacco to some extent, but that we will probabally never know. My line of reasoning is below.

It would be well nigh impossible to prove or disprove your point that the taste of a cigar changes when it's frozen, as ALL tobacco has been frozen a number of times... I would guess the tobacco farmers, cigar factory, distributor and wholesaler would all want to protect their intrests

This then leads to the conclusion that it would indeed take a developed palate to tell the difference between the fifth and sixth freezings and thereby unless you roll a cigar fresh off the fields, you will never be able to tell the difference between fresh tobacco and frozen, because it's all been frozen.

I dunno, if anyone can spot a hole in my logic, they are free to correct me.

[RGD.]

Originally Posted by Drazzil

RGD: One real quick point. As you said the chances are that the cigar, or the tobacco has been frozen at least once in its journey to your humidor The greater likelyhood is that it has been frozen perhaps multiple times...

Now here comes the sticky point. If the tobacco has been frozen, wouldn't the water crystals forming in the tobacco do something to displace the oils and change the balance of the taste of the tobacco? Water and oil don't mix, and I am guessing that freezing probabally does change the taste of tobacco to some extent, but that we will probabally never know. My line of reasoning is below.

It would be well nigh impossible to prove or disprove your point that the taste of a cigar changes when it's frozen, as ALL tobacco has been frozen a number of times... I would guess the tobacco farmers, cigar factory, distributor and wholesaler would all want to protect their intrests

This then leads to the conclusion that it would indeed take a developed palate to tell the difference between the fifth and sixth freezings and thereby unless you roll a cigar fresh off the fields, you will never be able to tell the difference between fresh tobacco and frozen, because it's all been frozen.

I dunno, if anyone can spot a hole in my logic, they are free to correct me.

Exactly -

Ron

[RGD.]

Originally Posted by wayner123

I respect your opinions and experience greatly. However, I know of a good number of PSHC members that may disagree with you on the above.

It's good to disagree and have varying opinions - be a boring world with out.

This subject comes up frequently and has done so for years. Several years ago I gave four friends three cigars each who stated without a doubt they could pick out the frozen smokes.

I sent person #
1) 3 non-frozen
2) 3 all frozen
3) 2 frozen and 1 non-frozen
4) 1 frozen and 2 non-frozen

Person #
1) said 2 were frozen when none were frozen
2) said 1 was frozen although all were frozen
3) said 1 was frozen and selected a correct one
4) said 1 was frozen and selected a non-frozen one

The cigars were Fuente 8-9-8, readily available damn near anywhere - without the labels. I did not have/smoke Cubans at the time - hence the use of Fuente's.

Soooo - you know, what can I say. Be glad to repeat my non-scientific study.
Of course I'm sure that there are guys out there who can discern 7 year old burnt Madagascar vanilla with a hint of German truffle - I just don't know any of them.



Ron

[wayner123]

Originally Posted by RGD.

It's good to disagree and have varying opinions - be a boring world with out.

This subject comes up frequently and has done so for years. Several years ago I gave four friends three cigars each who stated without a doubt they could pick out the frozen smokes.

I sent person #
1) 3 non-frozen
2) 3 all frozen
3) 2 frozen and 1 non-frozen
4) 1 frozen and 2 non-frozen

Person #
1) said 2 were frozen when none were frozen
2) said 1 was frozen although all were frozen
3) said 1 was frozen and selected a correct one
4) said 1 was frozen and selected a non-frozen one

The cigars were Fuente 8-9-8, readily available damn near anywhere - without the labels. I did not have/smoke Cubans at the time - hence the use of Fuente's.

Soooo - you know, what can I say. Be glad to repeat my non-scientific study.
Of course I'm sure that there are guys out there who can discern 7 year old burnt Madagascar vanilla with a hint of German truffle - I just don't know any of them.



Ron

That sounds like the results I would expect. Were those friends familiar with Fuente 8-9-8 enough to have a baseline to judge? And did they know the cigar in question before the test?

I am not discrediting your testing or anything like that, I truly want to know.

[MikeyC]

I've frozen cigars in the past and didn't feel that I lost any flavor. I know I should probably freeze everything that comes in for safety's sake, but I almost never do unless I see a beetle hole in one of the cigars.

[md4958]

from this website: http://www.cubancigarwebsite.com/6-m....htm#Factories

Freezing

In addition to fumigation, freezing of the finished cigars is used to kill the tobacco beetle Lasioderma serricorne.

Freezing of cigars commenced around early 2005. It is carried out in the Habanos main temperature and humidity controlled storage and distribution building. This, combined with fumigation, is intended to kill all eggs, insects, and lava within the tobacco.

Some regional distributors had their own freezing facilities, predating the Habanos plant.

so it can be pretty much guaranteed that boxcodes after 2005 have been frozen

[gpugliese]

Originally Posted by md4958

from this website: http://www.cubancigarwebsite.com/6-m....htm#Factories



so it can be pretty much guaranteed that boxcodes after 2005 have been frozen

Not necessarily, unfortunately. Here's what Rob Ayala has to say about HSA's freezing process:

They have capacity of 80,000 cigars in the freezing chamber for 24hours at a time. It doesn't cover all cigars produced (do the math). Still, there are distributors who also freeze their cigars (I********* being one). Perhaps they do not freeze cigars going to distributors who freeze cigars. I have tried to find out but have hit a brick wall at this time.

Bottom line is continue to freeze if you do not have a climate controlled environment.

[karmaz00]

well i woulsnt usually freeze them, but i do have a special desktop for my new arrivals, to keep a close eye on....but living in the cold country not much to worry about