Boveda Packs Regeneration

[Zane]

Originally Posted by jjirons69

Does the recharged Boveda still read the humidity specified on the pack after a charge?

It should. The salt ratio shouldnt change.

[shilala]

Originally Posted by jjirons69

Does the recharged Boveda still read the humidity specified on the pack after a charge?

Originally Posted by Zane

It should. The salt ratio shouldnt change.

The ratio won't change a bit. It can't. A saturated salt solution (which is what Boveda packs are) can only ever be the RH it is. The reason that's a constant is because of the volume of the Boveda packs. You couldn't get enough water in one of those packets to dilute the salt far enough that it wouldn't continue being saturated. (Saturated chemically speaking.)
Different salts achieve a different RH over themselves based on their composition. Sodium Chloride, table salt, yields 75.67% RH at 10*C.
This is a really good read for all stuff salt/RH related, and will show you guys the different RH values for different salts.

What I've always wanted to know, and I started doing experiments when I was developing the HCM beads, is "can a brother mix salts and make a custom RH?"
I never finished the experiments, so I never found out.
I'll figure it out one of these days if I'm ever so moved.
It might seem like a really stupid question, but the answer to that question, coupled with some charts and graphs, would be a boon for us cigar hoarders. It'd open up a huge amount of opportunities for do-it-yourself humidity control.

[T.G]

Originally Posted by shilala

The ratio won't change a bit. It can't. A saturated salt solution (which is what Boveda packs are) can only ever be the RH it is. The reason that's a constant is because of the volume of the Boveda packs. You couldn't get enough water in one of those packets to dilute the salt far enough that it wouldn't continue being saturated. (Saturated chemically speaking.)

Actually, you can, Scott. Although keep in mind that this pack was allowed to absorb water and expand beyond it's design parameters. Hygrometer and battery are new, and was calibrated with the Boveda 75% calibration kit just prior to placing in the bag with the expanded pack a few days ago.

[hotreds]

Once you take them out of their bath, do you air dry them or?........

[Wharf Rat]

Originally Posted by hotreds

Once you take them out of their bath, do you air dry them or?........

I prefer to put them in a window with a Western exposure, so they get the afternoon sun. When, they're dry, the bags need to be gently massaged to fluff up the crystals.

[Porch Dweller]

Originally Posted by Wharf Rat

I prefer to put them in a window with a Western exposure, so they get the afternoon sun. When, they're dry, the bags need to be gently massaged to fluff up the crystals.

[hotreds]

Thanks!

[shilala]

Holee sack, Adam. lol
That's just one of those itty bitty guys. You're absolutely right, I stand corrected. You manged to get enough water in there that the solution is no longer salt-saturated.
The ones I'm messing with are the big 65% ones. I dried them out completely and there's a good amount of salt in there. So much so that if I filled it like a ready-to-pop balloon like yours, it should remain saturated.
Now I'm not sure, though. I think I'll fill them the rest of the way and mess around with it some more.

It does make sense, what you found out. If these things are made with just enough salt to saturate the design amount of water, that creates a stumbling point for recharging them. Get too crazy and it's going to give up copious amounts of vapor till it reaches saturation again and starts to work right.
If we didn't know what was going on, we'd likely try recharging once, assume it doesn't work, and not bother again. Easier to just buy some new ones.

Thanks for hanging with me on this, my brother. Ya know, this is just how we all invented the hcm and hcs beads. A whole bunch of guys back at the old place joined me and we messed with a bunch of media till we got it all dialed in with real-world data.
I still haven't figured out how to improve on hcm beads. I tried tons of salts, denatured alcohols, glycols, combinations of those, saturated polymers, everything I could think of.
It's still easier just to use hcm beads with Boveda packs for an extra water-sink and to keep them dialed in. It's an awesome combo.

[T.G]

Originally Posted by shilala

Holee sack, Adam. lol
That's just one of those itty bitty guys. You're absolutely right, I stand corrected. You manged to get enough water in there that the solution is no longer salt-saturated.
The ones I'm messing with are the big 65% ones. I dried them out completely and there's a good amount of salt in there. So much so that if I filled it like a ready-to-pop balloon like yours, it should remain saturated.
Now I'm not sure, though. I think I'll fill them the rest of the way and mess around with it some more.

It does make sense, what you found out. If these things are made with just enough salt to saturate the design amount of water, that creates a stumbling point for recharging them. Get too crazy and it's going to give up copious amounts of vapor till it reaches saturation again and starts to work right.
If we didn't know what was going on, we'd likely try recharging once, assume it doesn't work, and not bother again. Easier to just buy some new ones.

Thanks for hanging with me on this, my brother. Ya know, this is just how we all invented the hcm and hcs beads. A whole bunch of guys back at the old place joined me and we messed with a bunch of media till we got it all dialed in with real-world data.
I still haven't figured out how to improve on hcm beads. I tried tons of salts, denatured alcohols, glycols, combinations of those, saturated polymers, everything I could think of.
It's still easier just to use hcm beads with Boveda packs for an extra water-sink and to keep them dialed in. It's an awesome combo.

No problem Scott.

Yeah, these little ones seem to have very tight margins for how much water they can hold. Neither of the two in the attached photo were recharged by dunking, they were both allowed to sit in sealed containers with moistened sponges at the opposite end of the container. The 69% pack is puffed up, but to no where near the amount that the one with the failed label was. The 72% pack has even less water in it than the 69% pack.

I have the failed label pack sitting out on the counter, once it drops back to something resembling original size, I'll test it again.

[T.G]

So, here are some weights on various packs.

75% calibration pack*: 8.1g
failed label 72%**: 29.4g
Pack 1 (72% from previous photo): 10.5g
Pack 2 (69% from previous photo): 16.8g
Pack 3 (69% almost crunchy pack now in bag with hygro): 6.1g
Pack 4 (72% crunchy pack): 3.3g

*: has been in use for 10-12 days now in the supplied bag, 3 hygrometers calibrated
**: has been sitting out for a few days

Weights measured with 500g x 0.1g digital scale.

I'll retest the humidity on the packs when they drop down to around 8g or 9g.

[shilala]

That's good stuff, Adam!!!
I'll be watching for the results.

[T.G]

Pack #1 was down to 8.6g this morning so I tossed it in a bag with a hygometer. Will check readings this evening.

[shilala]

Thanks, brother.
I threw the two I had setting out back in my winador.

[Sadden]

Hmmm , I think we need to examine the weight on a given brand new pack , and then recharge a used one to the same weight , then do a side by side and see where they level out at with calibrated hygros. Im starting to think that recharging them wont keep the setpoint the same.

[T.G]

Originally Posted by Sadden

Hmmm , I think we need to examine the weight on a given brand new pack , and then recharge a used one to the same weight , then do a side by side and see where they level out at with calibrated hygros. Im starting to think that recharging them wont keep the setpoint the same.

It's physically impossible for the salt to pass through the membrane of the pack due to it's larger molecular size, so the set point will absolutely remain the same so long as the water level is within design specifications. It's when the packs are overcharged past specifications and the ratio of water to salt is excessive, the pack will no longer maintain the design setpoint until enough water has been released from the pack to return to the design ratio.

A lot of what you mentioned has already been done and recorded in previous posts. What hasn't been posted yet is the results from testing the previously overcharged pack #1 once it dropped back into range because as with all other readings, 2-3 days are allowed for the environment to stabilize before readings are taken. Pack #1 was placed in the isolated environment on the 8th, which was 2 days ago. Reads will be posted when it's ready and I have time.

[Toombes]

I've recharged smaller packs using the tupperware/distilled water method. Works like a charm.
I'm using 1 lb of beads and 5 large packs in my cooler. I split the beads into 1/2 lb containers and overly saturate one container with the other one lightly spritzed. The packs soak up the excess from the beads and give out moisture when the beads start to dry out. Everything has been an didn't a stable 67% for the last year and I've only had to recharge the beads once.

[T.G]

So, as pretty much exactly as expected, after dropping back into the proper weight range and therefore correct salt ratios, the packs are performing as labeled:

Pack #1 - when overcharged, was pushing 78%, now it's been holding steady for a few weeks at 72% once it dropped back down to 8.6g

Pack #2 - previously overcharged with 16.9g total weight, was hovering at 79%. Now, back down to about 9g, it has been holding at 69%.

BTW Scott, from testing the packs along the way as they lost moisture, max weight seems to be around 9.5g give or take for these smaller packs. Over that and they are going to read high, below that and they are fine.

[Subvet642]

For anyone interested, the B----- website calls them 8 gram for the small and 60 gram for the large.

[T.G]

Originally Posted by Subvet642

For anyone interested, the B----- website calls them 8 gram for the small and 60 gram for the large.

Thanks for finding the info, Darren. That makes sense with what I saw; since it's a two-way pack, they are going to sell with the salt solution over saturated so it still has the capability of absorbing some excess humidity while maintaining the setpoint RH. If they sell it at a charged/total weight of 8g, they get crunchy around 3.3g, this means there is about 4.7g of water in there. When over charged, I saw it start hitting the target RH once it dropped to about 9.5g in weight when placed into a dry bag, so that means it has the ability to absorb approximately an additional 30% water, which is reasonable.

[Subvet642]

My pleasure!

If all these values are fixed (RH setpoint of the RO membrane, etc.), can we graph out how long a depleted pack must soak to hit the target weight?