stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet

[WildBlueSooner]

Originally Posted by Smokin Gator

I don't know why... but this thread really bothers me. It bothered me at the old site and it has taken pretty much the same course here.

Even if you were "testing" the exact same vitola of the same marca there are too many other variables involved to make any statements as to the differences based on internet versus B&M sources.

You guys have fun with it if you so choose.

May not mean much coming from someone who hasnt done a lot of smoking but "cha ching"! Gator= spot on!

[bobarian]

I am starting to get an itch!

I figure I buy from who I want, when I want period. After all, I'm the one who benefits or suffers whichever the case may be.

[Sancho]

The biggest difference I have seen first hand is with againg, B&M's dont move the stock of some of the more boutique brands that the online guys do. i.e. go into some place that sells Tatujue and check the box code, probably not new. Recently the shop I work at recieved a new box of VSG torpedos, compared to the rest of the VSG's already on the shelf they tasted totally different (due to lacking years of age) as such someone can come to the conclusion that a big interent site that moves thousands of boxes a month has cigars that dont taste the same as the local shop who moves maybe 10-20 boxes a month and mostly singles.

Just my perspective having watched stock sit on shelves only to be blown at a bottom shelf prices because it doesn't sell.

[BlackIrish]

You know, the idea of sitting around with some buddies and doing a B&M vs internet herf seems fun. Not because it would have any statistical significance (I deal with surveys and statistical data for a living, and the amount of care that you'd need to take in designing a proper study is enormous), but because it would just be fun.

I'm actually curious about the premise: doesn't it make more sense for manufacturers to send their better product to their biggest and most powerful customers (the internet retailers) rather than the highly dispersed local B&Ms?

Please understand that I'm not disparaging B&Ms -- many of the proprietors are enormously knowledgeable and very influential in customers' purchasing decisions. But they probably sell only a fraction of the volume of the big internet outlets. I'd think that if the internet outlets were getting lower quality stuff, they could throw their weight around a lot more.

Just a question . . .

Originally Posted by BlackIrish

You know, the idea of sitting around with some buddies and doing a B&M vs internet herf seems fun. Not because it would have any statistical significance (I deal with surveys and statistical data for a living, and the amount of care that you'd need to take in designing a proper study is enormous), but because it would just be fun.

I'm actually curious about the premise: doesn't it make more sense for manufacturers to send their better product to their biggest and most powerful customers (the internet retailers) rather than the highly dispersed local B&Ms?

Agreed with the first statement. This is why we do it and it is fun.

With regards to the second statement. First the local B&Ms add up to significantly more than the big guys. Second, There is thew fact that the big guys probably won't notice. third, there is the placebo effect for the internet buyer. " I got the same stuff cheaper". Forth, the local can actually leave you. CI and Famous etc. could not just stop selling Rocky, or Perdomo or La Aurora, there is no threat. a Local guy just tells his clients, they were dealing with me poorly or gave me bad stuff and out of loyalty to their local place many stop smoking the brand all together. The big guys are powerful, because of the volume to one place that they command, but they throw it around too and demand dirt cheap prices for those. When I started in business I wanted the big guys, the whales. But now I want a thousand little guys, that way no one customer leaving can hurt my business.

[MajorCaptSilly]

Originally Posted by Legend

Agreed with the first statement. This is why we do it and it is fun.

With regards to the second statement. First the local B&Ms add up to significantly more than the big guys. Second, There is thew fact that the big guys probably won't notice. third, there is the placebo effect for the internet buyer. " I got the same stuff cheaper". Forth, the local can actually leave you. CI and Famous etc. could not just stop selling Rocky, or Perdomo or La Aurora, there is no threat. a Local guy just tells his clients, they were dealing with me poorly or gave me bad stuff and out of loyalty to their local place many stop smoking the brand all together. The big guys are powerful, because of the volume to one place that they command, but they throw it around too and demand dirt cheap prices for those. When I started in business I wanted the big guys, the whales. But now I want a thousand little guys, that way no one customer leaving can hurt my business.

I have 2 cats and 1 dog.

MCS

Originally Posted by MajorCaptSilly

I have 2 cats and 1 dog.

MCS

About your dogs, did you buy one on the internet and the other from a local store?

[Scottw]

Originally Posted by ScottishSmoker

About your dogs, did you buy one on the internet and the other from a local store?

And if so, do they taste different?

[MajorCaptSilly]

Originally Posted by ScottishSmoker

About your dogs, did you buy one on the internet and the other from a local store?

Thank you for asking. The cats came from a local source and the dog came from a less local source. They are all nice.

MCS

[lightning9191]

Originally Posted by Legend

third, there is the placebo effect for the internet buyer. " I got the same stuff cheaper".

Perhaps you are experiencing a placebo effect because you seem quite convinced that the B&M's sticks are superior...

[Taboo Cigars]

I see everyone is reading this thread so I just wanted to say, "HELLO"!

Rob

[thebiglebowski]

Originally Posted by Taboo Cigars

I see everyone is reading this thread so I just wanted to say, "HELLO"!

Rob

hey! it's taboo guy. let's ask him.

Rob - do you sell your better cigars in your store and your not-so-better cigars on the inter-webs?

[icehog3]

Originally Posted by Legend

With regards to the second statement. First the local B&Ms add up to significantly more than the big guys. Second, There is thew fact that the big guys probably won't notice. third, there is the placebo effect for the internet buyer. " I got the same stuff cheaper".

I would love to see the factual stats on the local B&Ms adding up to more than the "big guys". Also how the conclusion is reached that the big guys "probably won't notice getting a (not vastly) inferior product. And don't even get me started on how you could prove this "placebo effect" theory.

I again emphasize everything posted here is subjective and/or speculative, yet it is pontificated like as if it were factual.

Originally Posted by icehog3

I would love to see the factual stats on the local B&Ms adding up to more than the "big guys". Also how the conclusion is reached that the big guys "probably won't notice getting a (not vastly) inferior product. And don't even get me started on how you could prove this "placebo effect" theory.

I again emphasize everything posted here is subjective and/or speculative, yet it is pontificated like as if it were factual.

Oh no, I've Agreed with everyone who's said it's subjective. and even stated I know neither side can be proved. just think it's interesting and would be fun to test amongst the inmates.

[icehog3]

Originally Posted by Legend

Oh no, I've Agreed with everyone who's said it's subjective. and even stated I know neither side can be proved. just think it's interesting and would be fun to test amongst the inmates.

Absolutely, no harm in a little fun.

[ca21455]

Let's not get all balled up here. This is an interesting discussion with all sides having there own opinion. That is what this type of medium is all about.

I tried searching the INTERNET to see if there was any information on cigar distribution and could not find anything definitive. The leading retailer is JR cigars and they sold about 10% of all cigars in the US. This of course includes all cigars which includes machine made cigars which sell more by far but cost less. Based on all the information I could find a good guess would be the INTERNET companies probably sell an equal amount of handmades as the B&Ms.

I typically try a few singles from a B&M first before purchasing a box. As far as quality goes, I would have to say I can't tell the difference. For the ones resting in my humi for > a month the singles taste the same as the boxes purchased on line.

I can say (as been stated before) the smokes indulged in at a local B&M with fellow BOLTs is always the best. Especially since I usually try something new that has been reccomended.

Anyway, an interesting discussion. Let's keep this civil.

Originally Posted by ca21455

Let's not get all balled up here. This is an interesting discussion with all sides having there own opinion. That is what this type of medium is all about.

I tried searching the INTERNET to see if there was any information on cigar distribution and could not find anything definitive. The leading retailer is JR cigars and they sold about 10% of all cigars in the US. This of course includes all cigars which includes machine made cigars which sell more by far but cost less. Based on all the information I could find a good guess would be the INTERNET companies probably sell an equal amount of handmades as the B&Ms.

I typically try a few singles from a B&M first before purchasing a box. As far as quality goes, I would have to say I can't tell the difference. For the ones resting in my humi for > a month the singles taste the same as the boxes purchased on line.

I can say (as been stated before) the smokes indulged in at a local B&M with fellow BOLTs is always the best. Especially since I usually try something new that has been reccomended.

Anyway, an interesting discussion. Let's keep this civil.

Agreed. Thanks for the input.

So who is willing to organize a test? I'll definately put some money into it. I know it will prove nothing but will be fun to do.

[icehog3]

Originally Posted by ca21455

Let's not get all balled up here.

Anyway, an interesting discussion. Let's keep this civil.

I thought it was for the largest part, John.

[SeanGAR]

Originally Posted by Legend

third, there is the placebo effect for the internet buyer. " I got the same stuff cheaper".

That wouldn't be a placebo effect, it would be bias, and it is unclear to me what direction the bias would go.

Normally I'm all for cigar testing on boards, but this, to me, is like designing an experiment to show that the earth is round.

Originally Posted by Legend

Truly riddick to summarily dismiss anothers thoughts as wrong when you have no proof.

Look at his argument again. Most internet shops are expansions from B&Ms. Based on your thesis, you are suggesting that J&R sells different CAO Brazilias online than they do in their NC shop. I dismiss that out of hand because it doesn't pass the smell test, let alone my personal experience.