Car troubles...any mechanics in the house?

AD720 · 01-13-2009, 08:38 AM

Please excuse my ignorance, I have a very rudimentary knowledge of the combustion engine...

I have an 01 Outback that has had a few sporadic electrical issues.

It started as simple as the car not starting. I had it towed to a local shop to the replace the battery, which was the original.

Second issue - Upon putting the car in gear it would start to stall unless I gave it gas (automatic BTW). Eventually things got worse, I lost power steering and power brakes. This time I had it towed to dealer that I trust. The problem was a seized serpentine belt pulley, which was replaced.

Fast forward to yesterday. The car was sitting since last Wednesday. I went to start it and it wouldn't start. All the electrical works, radio, lights, alarm. The starter turns without clicking but the engine will not turn over. I called the dealer and they said without looking at it that it could be the alternator.

Before I get it towed over there does anyone have any suggestions? I have AAA so the tow is not an issue but if it is something simple like a spark plug or fuel filter I'd rather have it towed to the Pep Boys 1/2 mile away than the dealer, which is about 45 minutes.

Any suggestions are welcome.

Mugen910 · 01-13-2009, 08:42 AM

bang the starter celloid a lil with a rubber mallet and then try to start the vehicle. I don't know much about cars but I know if the starter doesn't turn over sometimes a few good smacks works till you get a new starter.

awsmith4 · 01-13-2009, 08:42 AM

I would first try charging the battery, it may have enough juice to turn on but maybe not enough to turn over the engine.

poker · 01-13-2009, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AD720

Please excuse my ignorance, I have a very rudimentary knowledge of the combustion engine...

I have an 01 Outback that has had a few sporadic electrical issues.

It started as simple as the car not starting. I had it towed to a local shop to the replace the battery, which was the original.

Second issue - Upon putting the car in gear it would start to stall unless I gave it gas (automatic BTW). Eventually things got worse, I lost power steering and power brakes. This time I had it towed to dealer that I trust. The problem was a seized serpentine belt pulley, which was replaced.

Fast forward to yesterday. The car was sitting since last Wednesday. I went to start it and it wouldn't start. All the electrical works, radio, lights, alarm. The starter turns without clicking but the engine will not turn over. I called the dealer and they said without looking at it that it could be the alternator.

Before I get it towed over there does anyone have any suggestions? I have AAA so the tow is not an issue but if it is something simple like a spark plug or fuel filter I'd rather have it towed to the Pep Boys 1/2 mile away than the dealer, which is about 45 minutes.

Any suggestions are welcome.

The starter turns without clicking, but the engine does not turn? Sounds like a starter solenoid (Starter motor itself spins, but does not engage flywheel due to starter solenoid not kicking out armature.

01-13-2009, 08:58 AM

Selinoid. sounds like it anyways. Specially with it spinning with out clicking

Zoomschwortz · 01-13-2009, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poker

The starter turns without clicking, but the engine does not turn? Sounds like a starter solenoid (Starter motor itself spins, but does not engage flywheel due to starter solenoid not kicking out armature.

Can hear the starter spinning?

Is there any grinding noise?

If you can hear the starter spinning, but the engine is not turning over (the belt in front of the engine should move) as stated above, try tapping on the starter with a hammer. If this works, you should get a new starter.

When you say that the "starter turns without clicking" do you mean that nothing is happening when you turn the ignition switch?

kayak_rat · 01-13-2009, 09:09 AM

This site is my bible. These guys know more than alot of the mechanics at the dealerships. I have read about this before, but never had it happen to me.

http://subaruoutback.org/forums/

AD720 · 01-13-2009, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poker

The starter turns without clicking, but the engine does not turn? Sounds like a starter solenoid (Starter motor itself spins, but does not engage flywheel due to starter solenoid not kicking out armature.

Bingo. I was think solenoid or alternator. Which one should I be hoping for?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoomschwortz

Can hear the starter spinning?

Is there any grinding noise?

If you can hear the starter spinning, but the engine is not turning over (the belt in front of the engine should move) as stated above, try tapping on the starter with a hammer. If this works, you should get a new starter.

When you say that the "starter turns without clicking" do you mean that nothing is happening when you turn the ignition switch?

Yes the starter turns, no grinding. It feels like I need to give it some gas but that doesn't help. When I turn the ignition the starter spins. What I meant by that was that it is not clicking like it would with a dead battery. I will try doing the "starter tap" tonight.

[quote=kayak_rat;166148]This site is my bible. These guys know more than alot of the mechanics at the dealerships. I have read about this before, but never had it happen to me.

http://subaruoutback.org/forums/[/qoute]

I used to have a membership there, maybe I will check back in.

poker · 01-13-2009, 10:08 AM

Its not the alternator. The alternator is what generates electrical power only after the engine is running.

Mugen910 · 01-13-2009, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poker

Its not the alternator. The alternator is what generates electrical power only after the engine is running.

Poker...what do you know? Geez you make it sound like your an engineer or something.

poker · 01-13-2009, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mugen910

Poker...what do you know? Geez you make it sound like your an engineer or something.

something like that

01-13-2009, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poker

Its not the alternator. The alternator is what generates electrical power only after the engine is running.

Agree here, Sounds like time to replace the starter. Shouldnt be too bad. well i dont know subis so i could be wrong on that, but sounds like a starter

feznuk · 01-13-2009, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by awsmith4

I would first try charging the battery, it may have enough juice to turn on but maybe not enough to turn over the engine.

This would be a good quick test. Try charging it or simply jumping it since most of us don't have a battery charger. If you can jump it then the battery isn't providing enough gusto to get the job done, which means the alternator isn't doing a good job of charging it. Score one for the dealer.

Could also be a short, but that's less common and a whole lot harder to find.

The alternator would fit the history you provided. A flaky alternator would put undo stress on the battery which was old and in the middle of winter. That was enough to kill the original battery.

If you can't jump it. This sounds like some darn good advice...

Quote:

Originally Posted by poker

The starter turns without clicking, but the engine does not turn? Sounds like a starter solenoid (Starter motor itself spins, but does not engage flywheel due to starter solenoid not kicking out armature.

Just my

.

Good luck with the car troubles.

Just noticed your location....Go Birds!

01-13-2009, 10:25 AM

If the engine is spinning but not starting stick to the basics, an engine needs three things to run AIR-SPARK-FUEL. As long as the motor is sound (Timing belt wise) it is either no spark or no fuel. Pull a spark plug wire off and put a screw driver in the end and hold it close to anything metal while someone cranks the engine there should be a strong spark jumping the gap, if there is then It probably is a fuel problem. Give a small shot of carb cleaner or starting fluid into the air intake and see if the engine kicks over and runs for like one or two seconds, if it does then dies its a fuel problem.

Zoomschwortz · 01-13-2009, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AD720

Fast forward to yesterday. The car was sitting since last Wednesday. I went to start it and it wouldn't start. All the electrical works, radio, lights, alarm. The starter turns without clicking but the engine will not turn over. I called the dealer and they said without looking at it that it could be the alternator.

Okay, so when you turn the ignition switch, you can hear the starter spinning.

What do you mean by "the engine will not turn over"?

Do you mean that if you were standing in front of the car and someone else tried to start the car for you, that you could not see the crank pulley or any of the belts move?

Or, do you mean that the engine won't run?

If you can see the pulleys and belts moving, then you need to do what Stirwood wrote. By the way, if you check for spark, pay attention to the color of the spark. Blue is good, orange isn't so good.

AD720 · 01-13-2009, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoomschwortz

Okay, so when you turn the ignition switch, you can hear the starter spinning.

What do you mean by "the engine will not turn over"?

Do you mean that if you were standing in front of the car and someone else tried to start the car for you, that you could not see the crank pulley or any of the belts move?

Or, do you mean that the engine won't run?

If you can see the pulleys and belts moving, then you need to do what Stirwood wrote. By the way, if you check for spark, pay attention to the color of the spark. Blue is good, orange isn't so good.

Engine won't run, car won't start. Can't go.

Honestly, I'm probably not going to do the spark thing. I'll thump on the starter, try to jump it but failing that it is going to the shop...

Zoomschwortz · 01-13-2009, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AD720

Engine won't run, car won't start. Can't go.

Honestly, I'm probably not going to do the spark thing. I'll thump on the starter, try to jump it but failing that it is going to the shop...

Good. No need to thump on the starter.

As long as the belts and pulleys in the front of the engine are moving, then your engine is turning over and your starter is fine.

If your engine is turning over a lot slower than normal, then put a charger on the battery and then try to start it in a couple hours. If it starts, then you have a problem with the charging system. Check your battery connections and make sure they are tight. If the terminals look like a moon garden, clean them with a baking soda and water mixture before putting them back on the battery.

If a few days go by and the engine starts turning over slow again, you may have a bad alternator, which is fairly easy to change if you care to give it a shot. You can buy yourself a nice Craftsman tool set for a lot less than a dealer will charge to change it and it should take you less than an hour to do it yourself.

It is very easy and safe to check for spark. As stated before. pull 1 of your plug wires off and stick a screwdriver or other small metal object into it, then lay the screwdriver next to something metal on the engine and have someone try to start the engine. You should see a spark jumping from the screwdriver to the metal object.

Your engine most likely is not running because of one of three things.

1) Weak battery/charging system.
2) No spark
3) No fuel

01-13-2009, 03:17 PM

When non-car people describe car troubles to car people, confusion always ensues.

I did a full engine swap on a 99 Subie Impreza OBS. so I think I know a little about cars, but definitely wouldn't consider myself an expert.

The key to diagnosing this problem is understanding, from beginning to end, what's happening when you start a car. It looks like the sticking point here is determining if the engine is actually turning over (i.e. is the starter turning the crank and making the pistons move). The dealership you spoke to seems to be assuming that your starter is lacking enough power to make this happen (the alternator reference is a little wacky if you told them it had been sitting for nearly a week, I would assume a nearly dead battery that powers everything except the starter, which needs a lot of power. The alternator charges the battery, and could be the cause of it not being charged, but I would point to some sort of battery drain while it was sitting). The simplest fix in this situation is to hook up the jumpers and give the car enough juice to properly turn over. If it still doesn't, it's likely the starter.

If the engine is turning over, then the problem is not in the alternator or starter. It could be ANY number of things (vapor lock, fuel issues, solenoid, banana in your tailpipe).

Feel free to contact me and I'll do my best to give you a few tests to do in plain english...

MedicCook · 01-13-2009, 03:19 PM

I wish I could help you out but I am pretty useless when it comes to the workings of a vehicle. The only thing I know about cars is how to put out an engine fire (Pepsi) when you are standed on the side of the road. Good luck with the problem.

AD720 · 01-13-2009, 08:12 PM

Thanks for the help guys.

By the time I got home tonight it was too late to start messing around. Luckily I can take public transportation so it is not a do or die situation, I can still get myself to work (something to be very thankful for).

I'll report back with what I find out when I am able to do some of the steps outlined here.

01-13-2009, 08:38 AM	#1
AD720 I'm nuts for the place Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Andrew Location: The City of BOTL-erly Love Posts: 2,684 Trading: (73)	Car troubles...any mechanics in the house? Please excuse my ignorance, I have a very rudimentary knowledge of the combustion engine... I have an 01 Outback that has had a few sporadic electrical issues. It started as simple as the car not starting. I had it towed to a local shop to the replace the battery, which was the original. Second issue - Upon putting the car in gear it would start to stall unless I gave it gas (automatic BTW). Eventually things got worse, I lost power steering and power brakes. This time I had it towed to dealer that I trust. The problem was a seized serpentine belt pulley, which was replaced. Fast forward to yesterday. The car was sitting since last Wednesday. I went to start it and it wouldn't start. All the electrical works, radio, lights, alarm. The starter turns without clicking but the engine will not turn over. I called the dealer and they said without looking at it that it could be the alternator. Before I get it towed over there does anyone have any suggestions? I have AAA so the tow is not an issue but if it is something simple like a spark plug or fuel filter I'd rather have it towed to the Pep Boys 1/2 mile away than the dealer, which is about 45 minutes. Any suggestions are welcome.

01-13-2009, 08:42 AM	#2
Mugen910 I <3 Huy Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Location Location: First Name Posts: 8,387 Trading: (106)	Re: Car troubles...any mechanics in the house? bang the starter celloid a lil with a rubber mallet and then try to start the vehicle. I don't know much about cars but I know if the starter doesn't turn over sometimes a few good smacks works till you get a new starter. __________________ I'm not antisocial, I just think people are stupid.

01-13-2009, 08:42 AM	#3
awsmith4 Simple Pleasures - 2oL Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Albert Location: Marietta, Georgia Posts: 4,602 Trading: (111)	Re: Car troubles...any mechanics in the house? I would first try charging the battery, it may have enough juice to turn on but maybe not enough to turn over the engine. __________________ Its THIS easy to support our troops

01-13-2009, 08:58 AM	#5
darb85 Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Car troubles...any mechanics in the house? Selinoid. sounds like it anyways. Specially with it spinning with out clicking

01-13-2009, 09:09 AM	#7
kayak_rat Cyclonic Bastard Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Zack Location: NW Arkansas Posts: 322 Trading: (0)	Re: Car troubles...any mechanics in the house? This site is my bible. These guys know more than alot of the mechanics at the dealerships. I have read about this before, but never had it happen to me. http://subaruoutback.org/forums/ __________________ Flies, Lies, and Other Diversions

01-13-2009, 10:08 AM	#9
poker 1:11 Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Kelly Location: SoCal Posts: 5,280 Trading: (7)	Re: Car troubles...any mechanics in the house? Its not the alternator. The alternator is what generates electrical power only after the engine is running. __________________ Cigar Asylum: A cigar board birthed without agendas, without profiting, and without advertisements. Amor puro Character is what you do when no one is watching

01-13-2009, 10:25 AM	#14
stirwood Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Car troubles...any mechanics in the house? If the engine is spinning but not starting stick to the basics, an engine needs three things to run AIR-SPARK-FUEL. As long as the motor is sound (Timing belt wise) it is either no spark or no fuel. Pull a spark plug wire off and put a screw driver in the end and hold it close to anything metal while someone cranks the engine there should be a strong spark jumping the gap, if there is then It probably is a fuel problem. Give a small shot of carb cleaner or starting fluid into the air intake and see if the engine kicks over and runs for like one or two seconds, if it does then dies its a fuel problem.

01-13-2009, 03:17 PM	#18
Drat Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Car troubles...any mechanics in the house? When non-car people describe car troubles to car people, confusion always ensues. I did a full engine swap on a 99 Subie Impreza OBS. so I think I know a little about cars, but definitely wouldn't consider myself an expert. The key to diagnosing this problem is understanding, from beginning to end, what's happening when you start a car. It looks like the sticking point here is determining if the engine is actually turning over (i.e. is the starter turning the crank and making the pistons move). The dealership you spoke to seems to be assuming that your starter is lacking enough power to make this happen (the alternator reference is a little wacky if you told them it had been sitting for nearly a week, I would assume a nearly dead battery that powers everything except the starter, which needs a lot of power. The alternator charges the battery, and could be the cause of it not being charged, but I would point to some sort of battery drain while it was sitting). The simplest fix in this situation is to hook up the jumpers and give the car enough juice to properly turn over. If it still doesn't, it's likely the starter. If the engine is turning over, then the problem is not in the alternator or starter. It could be ANY number of things (vapor lock, fuel issues, solenoid, banana in your tailpipe). Feel free to contact me and I'll do my best to give you a few tests to do in plain english...

01-13-2009, 03:19 PM	#19
MedicCook Mila smoked my cigar Join Date: Jan 2009 First Name: Ryan Location: Schaghticoke, NY Posts: 10,946 Trading: (7)	Re: Car troubles...any mechanics in the house? I wish I could help you out but I am pretty useless when it comes to the workings of a vehicle. The only thing I know about cars is how to put out an engine fire (Pepsi) when you are standed on the side of the road. Good luck with the problem.

01-13-2009, 08:12 PM	#20
AD720 I'm nuts for the place Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Andrew Location: The City of BOTL-erly Love Posts: 2,684 Trading: (73)	Re: Car troubles...any mechanics in the house? Thanks for the help guys. By the time I got home tonight it was too late to start messing around. Luckily I can take public transportation so it is not a do or die situation, I can still get myself to work (something to be very thankful for). I'll report back with what I find out when I am able to do some of the steps outlined here.