Over humidification and subsequent "coning"

Lexxxus · 03-23-2009, 11:44 AM

I've had some cigars in a "coolerdor" for about a year and just began to notice some serious burn issues, "coning" and poor draw.

Normally flavourful the (Siglo III) was harsh and spongy. I could not smoke it past the halfway point. I thought it was perhpas over-humidified.

As well, the normally whiteish ash was dark and uneven... I took one of the sticks to a local B&M who verified it was over humidified.

I had been using a distilled water system and it seemed to work for me but I obviously reached a point where it got away on me.

I checked the levels and placed a hygro in the suspect box and another simply in the cooler. The hygro sitting atop a box in the cooler read 69 but one in the box of Cohibas read 72...

I yanked the water system and switched over to beads (that I has sitting but had not got around to using) and on the advice of another forum member left 2 large containers of beads (dry) in the cooler to hofefully absorb the excess humidity) Levels are dropping slowly and the hygro in the cigar box was at 70...

I pulled a stick and let it sit out overnight... the stick felt much firmer and it smoked better but still it was "off"... The cigar burned better but produced visible "coning" (the outer portion of the cigar burned well but the interior was still overly humid and it burned darker and to a point or a "cone")

I could not smoke it much past the point of 1/3 remaining... I decided to tear it apart and the a pencil thickness of the interior was damp.

Questions:

How do cigars humidify? from the outside in or the other way around... It make sense that if the whole thing was damp, it would dry from the outside first (resulting in a stick that felt good from the outside but was revealed to still be damp inside)

Obviously the whole cooler was a bit too humid, how low can I take the interior humidity of the cooler to ensure everything returns to proper levels? Or a better question, what is the best way to bring cigars back down? How long should it take?

And finally, does short-term over-humidification damage cigars?

NCRadioMan · 03-23-2009, 11:50 AM

I store all of my cigars in the 60-64% range. They smoke perfectly and, imo, better than when kept above 65%. I think most agree with this. It will take longer than a week to get them where you want them. Several months even. I would take all humidification out and monitor it and let it come down slowly.

I have several coolers that I don't use any humidification in and it stays perfectly at 64%. I see no problem with short-term over humidification as long as they havn't swelled and cracked the wrapper.

Oh, and fwiw, I know botls who store cigars in the 50's, long-term, with no problems.

Footbag · 03-23-2009, 11:50 AM

I would think that at this point, most of the humidity is in the cigars themselves, but some may have over absorbed into the cedar. Either way, lowering the humidity to 63-65% will not do any harm to the cigars, and would probably be your best bet. I keep my Cigars at 65% all the time.

md4958 · 03-23-2009, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lexxxus

I pulled a stick and let it sit out overnight... the stick felt much firmer and it smoked better but still it was "off"... The cigar burned better but produced visible "coming" (the outer portion of the cigar burned well but the interior was still overly humid and it burned darker and to a point...

It has been my understanding that a "cone shapped poin" or "cherry" burn is desirable... the wrapper will burn slightly faster than the ligero inner leaf and will produce a "point" As opposed to coning where the inner leaf burns faster than the outer... that is a sign of temporary over-humidification... the outter leaf is wetter than the inner slower-burning leaf

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lexxxus

And finally, does short-term over-humidification damage cigars?

Many online retailers over-humidify thier stock to allow for shipping, so I dont think there are many long-term effects. As far as brining your sticks back down, youre gonna need patience. give it a couple weeks to come down gradually.

if youre in a hurry, you can try leaving the lid of the humi cracked for an hour or so a day... but I feel the slower acclimation is better.

then again, im just a masshole and dont really know chit

shadow king · 03-23-2009, 11:52 AM

The quickest way to bring the RH level down is to crack open the lid and leave it open and check on it at intervals.

Most definately switch to the beads and use the 65% ones if you have them.

From what I've read all over, only retailers use the 70% RH level to ensure quality levels while shipping.

For the humi's at home it's best to have 65% RH. So I'd say that your 65-63% range is just about perfect for the cigars. I've also noticed that cigars I've smoked at 70% were too "wet" for my likings.

Prospector · 03-23-2009, 11:57 AM

I keep my Rh around 65 all the time and my cigars smoke fine, so I don't see any problem with maintaining them at 65 or even 63 for as long as it takes. With regards to that, humidity stabilization in the over humidified cigars could take a week or more (depending on the cigar's moisture content), so just be patient. There is a lot of excess moisture and it'll likely come out slowly under those conditions. The ones you tried most recently had likely dried out enough on the outside but the deep centers were still too damp.

NCRadioMan · 03-23-2009, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by md4958

It has been my understanding that a "cone shapped point" or "cherry" burn is desirable...

They should burn at the same pace. When there is a cone, the cigar is being smoked too fast or, like in the OP's case, the filler is wetter than the wrapper and binder.

Lexxxus · 03-23-2009, 12:02 PM

Will using "dry" beads help bring down the RH?

md4958 · 03-23-2009, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lexxxus

Will using "dry" beads help bring down the RH?

yup, the beads will absorb excess moisture in the air

Da Klugs · 03-23-2009, 12:13 PM

Coolers = Beads. <-Dual meaning period

Active humidification in coolers is unnecessary as they are very humidity tight, and presents the possibility of heartache when they fail to operate properly.

Humidity does a pretty darn good job of equalizing in small spaces like a cooler. Active / fans etc are way overkill and can hurt as much as they help IMO.

Cigars like stability/slow change. Using the cooler and beads is probably the best to get them back in the right RH range throughout. I think it sometimes takes months for cigars to regain their flavors when they become over humidiifed so don't give up on them just be patient.

I keep mine at 60-62%.

Sidebar: Have never personally experienced or heard anyone complain about cigars coming from a humidor where they tasted "off" or burned funny because they were under humidified. When you smoke one they pick up lots of moisture during the process. If they start too humid, by the time you are 1/2 way done they become yuck.

The subject of long term storage is related to but not directly tied to optimal smoking RH.

All properly blended Cuban cigars should cone a little. (very little typically) When you get a long bright cone it's usually from a cigar that has been over humifdified and then not let stabilize to the lower Rh thru and thru and or in combination with smoking it too fast.

JJG · 03-23-2009, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Da Klugs

I think it sometimes takes months for cigars to regain their flavors when they become over humidiifed so don't give up on them just be patient.

This is my understanding as well. slower is better and depending on how full your cooler is, I would think you need to give them at least a month or more.

Since you probably don't want to wait that long, you can just take out what you plan to smoke within the next week and place them in a separate unhumidified box. They should dry out much faster that way.

karmaz00 · 03-23-2009, 12:53 PM

yeah it will through some in there it might take some time, but it will slowly

marge796 · 03-23-2009, 01:01 PM

Great stuff guys! Thanks!!!

N2Advnture · 03-25-2009, 05:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Da Klugs

Coolers = Beads. <-Dual meaning period

Active humidification in coolers is unnecessary as they are very humidity tight, and presents the possibility of heartache when they fail to operate properly.

Humidity does a pretty darn good job of equalizing in small spaces like a cooler. Active / fans etc are way overkill and can hurt as much as they help IMO.

Cigars like stability/slow change. Using the cooler and beads is probably the best to get them back in the right RH range throughout. I think it sometimes takes months for cigars to regain their flavors when they become over humidiifed so don't give up on them just be patient.

I keep mine at 60-62%.

Sidebar: Have never personally experienced or heard anyone complain about cigars coming from a humidor where they tasted "off" or burned funny because they were under humidified. When you smoke one they pick up lots of moisture during the process. If they start too humid, by the time you are 1/2 way done they become yuck.

The subject of long term storage is related to but not directly tied to optimal smoking RH.

All properly blended Cuban cigars should cone a little. (very little typically) When you get a long bright cone it's usually from a cigar that has been over humifdified and then not let stabilize to the lower Rh thru and thru and or in combination with smoking it too fast.

Well said Dave.

I have found that since switching to the low to mid 60's in RH (nearly 10 years now) that I have virtually no burn or draw problems.

Sauer Grapes · 03-25-2009, 06:42 AM

check the accuracy of your hygrometer.

2nd, over humidification by that small amount will not harm the cigars unless mold grow, which is more likely the more humid it gets.

03-23-2009, 11:44 AM	#1
Lexxxus I break for Cubans Join Date: Jan 2009 First Name: Wayne Location: Winnipeg CANADA Posts: 130 Trading: (2)	Over humidification and subsequent "coning" I've had some cigars in a "coolerdor" for about a year and just began to notice some serious burn issues, "coning" and poor draw. Normally flavourful the (Siglo III) was harsh and spongy. I could not smoke it past the halfway point. I thought it was perhpas over-humidified. As well, the normally whiteish ash was dark and uneven... I took one of the sticks to a local B&M who verified it was over humidified. I had been using a distilled water system and it seemed to work for me but I obviously reached a point where it got away on me. I checked the levels and placed a hygro in the suspect box and another simply in the cooler. The hygro sitting atop a box in the cooler read 69 but one in the box of Cohibas read 72... I yanked the water system and switched over to beads (that I has sitting but had not got around to using) and on the advice of another forum member left 2 large containers of beads (dry) in the cooler to hofefully absorb the excess humidity) Levels are dropping slowly and the hygro in the cigar box was at 70... I pulled a stick and let it sit out overnight... the stick felt much firmer and it smoked better but still it was "off"... The cigar burned better but produced visible "coning" (the outer portion of the cigar burned well but the interior was still overly humid and it burned darker and to a point or a "cone") I could not smoke it much past the point of 1/3 remaining... I decided to tear it apart and the a pencil thickness of the interior was damp. Questions: How do cigars humidify? from the outside in or the other way around... It make sense that if the whole thing was damp, it would dry from the outside first (resulting in a stick that felt good from the outside but was revealed to still be damp inside) Obviously the whole cooler was a bit too humid, how low can I take the interior humidity of the cooler to ensure everything returns to proper levels? Or a better question, what is the best way to bring cigars back down? How long should it take? And finally, does short-term over-humidification damage cigars? __________________ Lx I invented the cordless extension cord. Last edited by Lexxxus; 03-23-2009 at 11:58 AM.

03-23-2009, 11:50 AM	#2
NCRadioMan Chutney Lovebusciut Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Chutney Location: On the shores of Loch Shiel Posts: 4,276 Trading: (66)	Re: Over humidification and subsequent "coning" I store all of my cigars in the 60-64% range. They smoke perfectly and, imo, better than when kept above 65%. I think most agree with this. It will take longer than a week to get them where you want them. Several months even. I would take all humidification out and monitor it and let it come down slowly. I have several coolers that I don't use any humidification in and it stays perfectly at 64%. I see no problem with short-term over humidification as long as they havn't swelled and cracked the wrapper. Oh, and fwiw, I know botls who store cigars in the 50's, long-term, with no problems. __________________ The path to loyalty is trust. Last edited by NCRadioMan; 03-23-2009 at 12:00 PM.

03-23-2009, 11:50 AM	#3
Footbag I Need My Space Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Adam Location: NEPA Posts: 1,216 Trading: (7)	Re: Over humidification and subsequent "coning" I would think that at this point, most of the humidity is in the cigars themselves, but some may have over absorbed into the cedar. Either way, lowering the humidity to 63-65% will not do any harm to the cigars, and would probably be your best bet. I keep my Cigars at 65% all the time.

03-23-2009, 11:52 AM	#5
shadow king Fresh outta Ad Seg Join Date: Mar 2009 First Name: Matt Location: Last house on the left Posts: 466 Trading: (19)	Re: Over humidification and subsequent "coning" The quickest way to bring the RH level down is to crack open the lid and leave it open and check on it at intervals. Most definately switch to the beads and use the 65% ones if you have them. From what I've read all over, only retailers use the 70% RH level to ensure quality levels while shipping. For the humi's at home it's best to have 65% RH. So I'd say that your 65-63% range is just about perfect for the cigars. I've also noticed that cigars I've smoked at 70% were too "wet" for my likings.

03-23-2009, 11:57 AM	#6
Prospector I'm nuts for the place Join Date: Jan 2009 First Name: Mike Location: Arizona's beautiful Verde Valley Posts: 2,500 Trading: (11)	Re: Over humidification and subsequent "coning" I keep my Rh around 65 all the time and my cigars smoke fine, so I don't see any problem with maintaining them at 65 or even 63 for as long as it takes. With regards to that, humidity stabilization in the over humidified cigars could take a week or more (depending on the cigar's moisture content), so just be patient. There is a lot of excess moisture and it'll likely come out slowly under those conditions. The ones you tried most recently had likely dried out enough on the outside but the deep centers were still too damp.

03-23-2009, 12:02 PM	#8
Lexxxus I break for Cubans Join Date: Jan 2009 First Name: Wayne Location: Winnipeg CANADA Posts: 130 Trading: (2)	Re: Over humidification and subsequent "coning" Will using "dry" beads help bring down the RH? __________________ Lx I invented the cordless extension cord.

03-23-2009, 12:13 PM	#10
Da Klugs Juan of 11 Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Dave Location: Right here Posts: 4,219 Trading: (8)	Re: Over humidification and subsequent "coning" Coolers = Beads. <-Dual meaning period Active humidification in coolers is unnecessary as they are very humidity tight, and presents the possibility of heartache when they fail to operate properly. Humidity does a pretty darn good job of equalizing in small spaces like a cooler. Active / fans etc are way overkill and can hurt as much as they help IMO. Cigars like stability/slow change. Using the cooler and beads is probably the best to get them back in the right RH range throughout. I think it sometimes takes months for cigars to regain their flavors when they become over humidiifed so don't give up on them just be patient. I keep mine at 60-62%. Sidebar: Have never personally experienced or heard anyone complain about cigars coming from a humidor where they tasted "off" or burned funny because they were under humidified. When you smoke one they pick up lots of moisture during the process. If they start too humid, by the time you are 1/2 way done they become yuck. The subject of long term storage is related to but not directly tied to optimal smoking RH. All properly blended Cuban cigars should cone a little. (very little typically) When you get a long bright cone it's usually from a cigar that has been over humifdified and then not let stabilize to the lower Rh thru and thru and or in combination with smoking it too fast. __________________ Communities Not Commodities. Punctuation challenged, but trying. Proud winner of phase 1 of the Weight loss contest

03-23-2009, 12:53 PM	#12
karmaz00 Habanos Join Date: Dec 2008 First Name: Jason Location: victoria Posts: 1,855 Trading: (1)	Re: Over humidification and subsequent "coning" yeah it will through some in there it might take some time, but it will slowly __________________ Habanos Collector Since 2003

03-23-2009, 01:01 PM	#13
marge796 It Just Doesn’t Matter!!! Join Date: Feb 2009 First Name: Chris Location: Topeka KS Posts: 1,624 Trading: (28)	Re: Over humidification and subsequent "coning" Great stuff guys! Thanks!!! __________________ “Don’t talk to me about naval tradition. It’s nothing but rum, sodomy and the lash.” -Sir Winston Churchill

03-25-2009, 06:42 AM	#15
Sauer Grapes Snatchin' yo people up Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 2,235 Trading: (44)	Re: Over humidification and subsequent "coning" check the accuracy of your hygrometer. 2nd, over humidification by that small amount will not harm the cigars unless mold grow, which is more likely the more humid it gets.