Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 

I logged in today to find a PM from one of my good friends on CA who is also effected by this. What this person told me was that hardcz has been banned. I scanned and scanned for any posts or threads related to what may have happened. Now I can suppose, assume or guess but I won't. The team of 11 had their reasons and they may or may not have coincided with what happened.

I have waffled back and forth about posting something here and have talked to a few people. It was being handled behind the scenes, I was a good soldier and stood down. Now it appears as though this is situation will just go away quietly. I am going to do my best to be factual and non judgemental about this situation but I think that the facts bear telling.

Fact - on March 16 I was invited by hardcz via PM to join a GB he was running for some custom sticks (I refrain from saying which ones as it is not relevant to the point and this vendor should not be viewed in the same light).

Fact - on March 31 I confirmed my interest and order level to hardcz as well as Vitola and sent him $652.93 (I can provide the transaction logs to support this) via electronic transaction

Fact - Over the course of the last 4 months I have on 3 occasions been told my order was complete and that it would be mailed expediently. The last of which was an openly posted DC number here THREAD .

Fact - On June 28 I was informed via email from hardcz that not only was I not going to get the volume that I was expecting but that there was also a mix up in the vitola, this results in my getting 40% of something I didn't order. At this point I am looking to recuop anything

Fact - It is July 27 and the DC number has not yet been scanned in at the departure point yet it was generated on July 14. The click and ship label was made for that number but to go where? It was never scanned at the mailing point, hence not recieved.

Fact - I have yet to recieve anything and Dan has failed to respond to my last 2 emails.

Now there are many other things I have heard via third party, and by those directly involved in this same group buy but I have no facts and therefore will not say anything there.

I am not sure to what benefit there is in saying nothing. Having posted here I do not expect any recourse, I do not expect my money back, I do not expect my order to be filled. What I expect is to move on having $652.93 less than I did before all this.

I do not hold any of the team of 11 or CA responsible in anyway. I do not feel it is there responsibility to try to police trading/group buys/sales/purchase in any way. I hold all of them in the utmost respect.

Now over my time on this forum (I combine the CS days as well) I have had a couple of deals gone bad. I am sure many of us who have done any trading has had it happen. The trade wasn't quite even, it took longer than it should have, product was damage or destroyed in transit. These things happen.

I am not talking about that, what I am seeing here at this point is that a person has taken my money for a service they were to render and has yet to render that service nor have they responded to any communication regarding that service so hence my conclusion is that this person has no intention in providing the service for which I paid. So effectively it is as if he reached into my pocket and took from me $652.93.

The reason I post this is that I don't think brushing it under the carpet and letting it quietly go away is right. hardcz has in my opinion based on the facts above done something that should be made public to his group of piers on this board. It should be known that at the time of this post he has failed to live up to an agreement that he made and took money for.

This should not be taken as a precursor to every transaction, I have done deals since and will continue dealing with people, I will be as cautious as I can be and limit my exposure but if something of the same ilk were to happen again, I will state the facts as well.

I have been careful in my wording to insure that I avoid inserting feeling and or insinutation here and I hope that I have not transgressed some unwritten rule of the forum for what I have said.

If you want the facts I will share them, I have nothing to hide.

Draw your own conclusions.

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 

Shawn,

Sorry to hear about your financial loss. As many members here frequent other boards too I for one am happy to hear this info, while he is banned here he might not be banned elsewhere. While the chances of me dealing with him before this were slim, they are zero now. Thanks for looking out for the rest of us.

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 

Sorry to hear shawn, you're right this could have happened to anybody, but i'm both saddened and pi$$ed off that this happen to someone like you, who is (to quote Scott) "generous to a fault" with people within this community.

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 

I too was taken for a loop like Shawn. Not for nearly as much, but I feel his pain.

There was a time I called Dan my friend, when I would have even tried to defend him... quite honestly it's a slap in the face to myself and our BOTLs. Atleast he can't swindle us anymore...

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 

He took you for $600+?

I'm sorry, but if someone took me for $600+, I'd kick their ass!!!!

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 

The very bottom line is that it's theft - plain and simple. People go to jail for a lot less.


Ron

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 

Well, this does suck, but thanks for coming forward with a very restrained, to the point post. I can only hope that he eventually makes good to all parties involved, but he is a noob to the cigar community, and is just as likely to walk away from it. As stated on the other thread, it's up to folks to use their own judgment when buying, selling and trading online. I think people often mistake post count and "ring gauge", along with friendly online banter with character, knowledge and friendship. If your post makes anyone think twice before sending money to a relative stranger, then it will have served a noble purpose.

:tpd:

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 

I will admit that I feel your loss. Not only of someone you thought was a friend, but also of the large monetary loss. Banning Dan was not a decision that came easily for us nor did it happen without much thought & discussion.
When we notice that he is active on places like Facebook, yet fails to respond to not only other members PM's & emails, but to also ignore admin sent PM's & emails, it gives us little choice. His ban here we felt, would have no impact on whether he would honor any and all outstanding debts or not. He has had many chances to right the wrongs. Playing a blind eye is not the right way.

As part of the decision making in his banning, I wish to apologize to anyone who was taken by Dan, whether it was for 6 dollars or 600. We try to look out for folks, but it is something that we just cant do 100% effectively. We do however try to the best of our ability.

If anyone wishes to, email or PM any admin and we can get any message to him if he chooses to read it.

Kelly

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 

I for one was in a GB with Dan, abiet a small one compared to Shawn and others who will remain nameless and are out $$$$. IMHO, Dan burnt his bridges here...hopefully he will make good on all the gb's.
I don't hold anyone here, including the Mods as responsible as yes it is the old addage, buyer beware. Well....we have seen his true colours now, and now we all have to live and learn. Shawn and others who are affected, take solice in knowing what comes around goes around. :2

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 

Shawn,
I feel your pain. He is not to be named kept sending me invites to his group buys as well. I've met him and he is an a$$. I'm not here to bash him but ever since he tried selling me some cigars that I knew he got on sale for a price that was the full asking price when not on sale I cut my ties to him. I even took him off my buddy list. Since I am an LEO this whole cluster is definitely a fraud. I don't want to see him locked up but he should make right his wrongs and be done with it. :2

Not to mention him posting D/C #s to passes, MAW and others only not having them sent for a month! If you can't get stuff out in a week max then don't get involved.:fl

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 

I really feel for you, Shawn and others that got nailed on this. I was emailed months ago about these GB's by Dan and something just seemed strange. I chose not to get in on the GB's and I guess it's a blessing I didn't bite.
I honestly didn't see this coming. He was a proven member of our little community on CS/CA and I'm really shocked. I, like, M.J. considered him a stand up fella and someone I called a friend. I'm very angry about this!! I just keep thinking about the problems he was having and how much advise I gave.
I guess you really never know someone, but to me, a man's word is worth more than anything else. You say you'll do something you damn well better do it no matter how minuscule the task may be. I just hope he makes it right (somehow). Even though many of us haven't met in person I consider many on here "REAL" friends. You can't get much lower than stealing from friends, and that's what it appears he has done.

You said what had to be said in a very respectful manner, Shawn. I would of been a bit more surly. You're an honest and generous person, as many here in the Asylum are, and this just saddens me. What comes around goes around, he'll get his.
That's all I have to say.

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 

I think this whole situation underscores the need for all of us to leave relevant trader feedback. I know I'm one of those "benefit of the doubt" people who will bend over backwards to be understanding and see the other side in a transaction. I don't think I've ever left negative trader feedback even though I've been in a few problem transactions. In the end, my unwillingness to act is a detriment to the community at large.

I forget sometimes that I truly know very few of you. We interact on the board and we call each other "friends," but that's easy in a vacuum. You post. I respond. We banter. Meanwhile neither of us truly KNOWS the other. Obviously there are a handful of guys here that I do know well because I've met them, hung with them and developd a real relationship with them. But for the vast majority, we're nothing more than posts on a web page to each other. However, I think nothing of it when someone says, "bro, you down for a split of XYZ sticks?" Off goes my check or PP pmt. 99% of the time it works out just fine because I'd like to think that 99% of the members here are legit. But we still need to be careful. And we have to do a better job of taking care of each other by utilizing the trader feedback system for something more than gratuitous platitude system it currently is.

How many guys would have gotten involved with Dan if he had 3 or 4 negative trader ratings? That's on us guys. Everyone of us who got burned by Dan -- and I'm in that group -- left the rest of the board open to more predatory behavior because we didn't want to be seen as the bad guy who left a negative rating. We wanted to believe that scumbags don't exist on the board, and in doing so we failed those who came after us.

The next time I'm involved in a pass, a trade or a GB where someone goes AWOL or doesn't live up to their end of the bargain or misses a deadline without clear and prompt communication, I'm leaving negative feedback. And I will do so out of respect for the others on this board.

That doesn't mean I'm going to go red dot happy. Case in point, in my mind, as to how it should be done. Moe & Fred recently ran a group buy that ran into a couple situations where things got delayed. But I was never, ever in doubt that things would be resolved because of the wonderful job they did communicating with the board, explaining the circumstances and outlining next steps. They get kudos & props for the way they handled that GB.

But make no mistake. There ARE other Dan's out there. And shame on us if we don't alert the rest of the board to problem transactions going forward.

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 

If this was across state lines its a federal offense, especially since he used USPS to commit fraud.

$652 is alot of change to just throw your hands up and forget about... Contact your local police and see if they can help.

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 

Well said, Vin. :tu

Sorry for your trouble, Shawn. :(

Knock on wood, but so far, I've had no issues that a few pm's haven't resolved, but I have no doubt with enough transactions, some are not going to go as one would hope. Honest, unbiased feedback will help alert others.

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 

Hate to see this happen to anyone. Can't say I didn't see something like this happening sooner or later. Piss poor communication and always out to get something out of a deal for himself would catch up to him eventually. Guess I gave him the benefit of the doubt since I knew him and herfed with him many times. It saddens me that anyone can be this low of a person.

Anyone up for a surprise herf at his new house:bx:fl:r:r

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 

I am one of the people that Dan has screwed over. I received a PM stating that he was going to ship my cigars and then he didn't. Stay classy Dan. :hm

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 

Woof.
This is just bad.
$650 is not something to be taken lightly. $20, $40 we can all live with that.
This is above and beyond bad.

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 

It bothers me deeply Shawn that you had to experience this. Makes me hang my head.....

In all your personal trouble, thank you for taking the time to inform us.

Re: Sometimes you call a spade a spade
 

sorry to hear about that man i also know how its feels to be ripped off by a guy u thought was a good botl and a mate it was NOT dan that ripped me off tho