Starting to like wine...the Red version
 

So I stole the idea from the recent thread

http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/showthread.php?t=28654

I too have recently started drinking wine. Started with whites and moved along to reds, I am liking Merlots, Cabs, and this cheap Shriaz-Merlot. But I dont really know what to look for. I really like the red wines with cigars. Any suggestions? There should be a Wine MAW/PIF..:r

Re: Starting to like wine...the Red version
 

Well, its like saying I like Maduro, Corojo, Criollo, etc. Any more specifics as to what you're actually drinking?

As for PIF and such, consumers are not allowed to ship wine. Sorry for bad news.

Re: Starting to like wine...the Red version
 

I really have no idea, I will have to pay more attention. I have been just buying stuff that say it is from 03 or something like that. I know nothing of the brands.

Re: Starting to like wine...the Red version
 

I see that your in Phoenix. Total Wine, Bevmo, and Magnum's Cigar Wine and Spirit have frequent beer and wine tastings.

Re: Starting to like wine...the Red version
 

Cool I will have to try some

Re: Starting to like wine...the Red version
 

Look at the regions(appelations) for the wines you like and try others from the same area. Dont let price tell you what to like either. There are good inexpensive wines and bad high end, just like cigars. :2

Re: Starting to like wine...the Red version
 

I just started drinking wine a few month's ago on the advice of my doctor for the cardiac benefits. I have found I tend to the Red wines as well cause the whites just aint "heavy" enough.

Re: Starting to like wine...the Red version
 

Try a nice German Reisling AUSLESE with some spicy Asian dish, let me know what you think :D

There is a place off the strip in Vegas called Lotus of Siam, considered one of the best Thai places in States. Their entire wine list is German Reisling, all at RETAIL prices and not a penny more, and the list is built on some of the best names in business. You order your food and tell them how spicy you want it, 1 to 10. I was OK at about 7 and I love spicy food... But the combo of spicy and sweet wine is the real deal and not to be missed.

No red wine would be able to play along with such a cuisine, so white wines do have a good place for certain foods. Although I am about a 95% red wine drinker.

Re: Starting to like wine...the Red version
 

For a nice BCR (big cheap red as we call it in my family) try Little Penguin. The Cabernet Sauvignon is a favorite.

Re: Starting to like wine...the Red version
 

I do a lot of wine shopping for Lisa. She likes Cabs and Merlot.
Bob is right on the money, someone told me the same thing when I asked in the liquor store.
Seems like Lisa likes Napa Valley stuff the most, Australian stuff the least. I'm trying to pay attention to what I buy so I can guess a little better. The year doesn't so much seem to matter, but 2005 seems to be where it's at, so far.
We have bunches of wineries around here, I'm hoping to find something local that she likes a lot. I'm guessing it'd be better, and better for her. :tu

Re: Starting to like wine...the Red version
 

There is a reason for that :-) I am sure there is an old thread on the subject, but in simple terms: Napa - clean, well made wines, OZ - all sorts of manipulation and additions plus way to much oak and at prices we're discussing, not oak barrels but oak chips to simply flavor the wine...

Just to put things in perspective, Michael Twelftree, the Two Hands guy, was bad mouthing CA wines and winemaking expertise big time in press. Take a wild guess where he is making wine now, or rather, who makes it for him and where...

Re: Starting to like wine...the Red version
 

Don't overlook Chilean or Aussie offerings, some fantastic values can be had.

Re: Starting to like wine...the Red version
 

I'd add Spanish Tempranillo to the list. :2

Re: Starting to like wine...the Red version
 

Technically I think we are not suppose to ship cigars either..;)

The only wine I can recall recently was something called Duckhorn. It went great with my steak :dr

Re: Starting to like wine...the Red version
 

Lots of napa wineries also use oak chips for their less expensive wines along with egg shells so its not that Napa makes clean wine its a different grape different taste different expirence all around.

As to some inexpensive Napa cabs on of my favorites that is easy to get is called "the show" by joel gott/rebel wine company about $12.50/btl

Re: Starting to like wine...the Red version
 

For a great red that the is bold and has something going on, try a Dao from Portugal. You can buy an awesome one for under $15 and it tastes noting like the plunk that most are drinking. Dao's are honest wines that can handle any food red wine could pair with.

Re: Starting to like wine...the Red version
 

For instance, the Xplorador line from Concha y Toro, at about 10 bucks, is a total steal. Try their Carmenere as well as the aforementioned Cab or Merlot.

Oh, and try a Malbec from Argentina also . . . a very drinkable red.

Re: Starting to like wine...the Red version
 

Except that you cannot conceal wine in a shipment even if you try. The old, I am shipping olive oil to my grandpa" does not work any longer, the best that could happen is you are either refusd to ship or get the wine back. In most cases it is simply confiscated.

Duckhorn is one of the best known names in Napa, for decades they were the top name in Merlot (been bypassed lately).

Re: Starting to like wine...the Red version
 

Just curious, do you know what egg shells are used for? And if we're on the subject, it is egg whites, not egg shells, easier and "cleaner". I have seen milk used as well. What's so bad about egg whites or milk?

How many cheap Napa reds do you know? Say, compared to the zillions of "animal label" cases that come out of OZ? Have you been to any Napa cellars and seen nothing but acres of barrels? There is a reason for that OZ Cab to be priced at $15 or below and there is a reason many Napa Cabs cost $50 and up, barrels are sold in EU (currency), price per ton goes up to $15K (per ton). On the other hand, oak chips are cheap, harvesting 15 tons per acre (as opposed to 3 tons per in Napa) also makes for bland taste, main reason the big boys in OZ have some interesting "research" chem labs in place. To be fair, so does Gallo.

Better OZ Cabs cost same as Napa Cabs and the reasons are listed in the paragraph above. There are no miracles and no short cuts in wine world. BTW, many top end OZ Cabs (and reds in general) still use American oak barrels, they are about half price of European barrels.

Cab a different grape? Different taste? How? Have you done blind Cab tastings? Try a BLIND tasting of Cabs from whatever regions you feel like, let me know how much of a difference you will be able to pick up. Then do a similar BLIND tasting of, say, Pinot Noirs and red Burgs, and let me know just how easy it will be picking them apart. Same for Chardonnay and Chablis. German Reisling versus Austrian. I can go on... Cab is Cab until you reach into upper price range and this thread is obviously not there. Cab is a "pedestrian" and very hyped up grape, main reason so many are now moving to the likes of Portugal reds, Agentian Malbec, Grenache based reds, Syrah based blends, Petite Sirah and others. I stopped buying Cab years ago and am down to maybe a couple of cases.

Joel Gott makes no NAPA CAB, it is labeled CALIFORNIA CAB for a reason.

Let's talk apples and apples...

Re: Starting to like wine...the Red version
 

The best advice I think is Drink What You Like, Like What You Drink.

In my opinion, I look at the old CS "No Snobs" treatise and realize it has many uses.

Contrary to popular belief, you don't need to have a "Madagascar Vanilla" palate to simply enjoy what you are drawn to, and you don't have to have the aspirations to be an Amateur Sommelier either. People have been enjoying some very rustic and unrefined wines in odd corners of the world without worrying too much about whether something is "right" or "wrong" or High-brow or Low-brow.

Experiment, try many different varietals in your comfortable price range, and you will find your niche.

But what do I know... I have the palate of a goat... ;)

Re: Starting to like wine...the Red version
 

I am an admitted complete idiot when it comes to wine. I have found I do like cabs and port. I have a wine that a lady from my church gave us called Mission Hill Reserve Riesling Icewine 2004 that is awesome. Am I tasting olives? Or is that my imagination?

Re: Starting to like wine...the Red version
 

Actually, I know a good number of locals who will ONLY drink Cab. Not sure if that qualifies them as snobs or not, but they won't even taste anything that doesn't say Cab on a label.

I'd rather drink beer, and I do, than drink all sorts of "animal labels" wines, if that's snobish, then be it. Meaning drinking less, but better quality (we ALL do that with cigars, no?). But something also tells me that I drink way more adventurous/interesting wines, in general, since I do not discriminate by grape, region or label, I may simply prefer some to others depending on company and food that day.

Re: Starting to like wine...the Red version
 

Greg,

Icewine is usually sweeter than Auslese and by law it has to be picked when berries are frozen. They literally grow these in colder climates (Germany and Canada) and simply let the grapes stay on vines until winter hits. What that does, the cold snap I mean, is evaporate most of the liquid out of berries in turn concentrating what's left with the sugar inside (they usually pick in snow). Imagine raisin like berries (deflated) full of sweet juice. Then they pick and press.

Have not tasted that particular wine. If you taste olives, then olives it is :-)

Italians do something similar with red grapes, Amarone wines. They pick, destem the fruit (picking berries off the stems/clusters) and lay them on special mats under the sun. Achieves same thing: water evaporation and sugar concentration. When berries get raisiny they are pressed and fermented, same as ice wine. The biggest difference may be the use of oak in Amarone to age wine versus stainless steel tanks for icewine.

Best Canada made icewines are pricey, but I've seen some at Costco at decent prices. German Reislings made from frozen grapes are really expensive as are Alsace Gewurtztramiers. But if there is a time to splurge, once a year or whatever, they can be mild blowing experiences, you simply pour some in a glass and sit back sniffing the wine for all its complexity and concentration.

Try a few more affordable German Reislings with spicy cuisine. I've seen some at Trader Joe's and Costco. Just make sure they are at least Spatlese (shoul be on the label) or Auslese. Trader Joe's sold some Beerenauslese (next step up) for $20 per, a 375ml bottle.

Re: Starting to like wine...the Red version
 

Thanks Greg for the info. This particular one was made in Canada by John Simes if that helps. Once again I am not too spiffy when it comes to wines. The bottle says I should be tasting Lemon-lime, green apple, guava and praline. Not sure but my wife and I both taste the olive. It's like when you sniff it you get the olive, then when you taste it you get the olive for just a second and then it turns to a fruity taste. I really like it though.

Re: Starting to like wine...the Red version
 

Cab is best blended as is most wine. Only a few grapes are really "meant" or can stand to be by themselves.

Buy wines from an chateau, estate, or producer. Wine should come from a specific place, not a wild animal print or fake entity.

Re: Starting to like wine...the Red version
 

But but but...how will I know what I should like if no one gives me options :D

Re: Starting to like wine...the Red version
 

Well seeing as we seem to have the same pallets in other matters:r

Find the St. Francis Old Vine Zinfandel

It is my absolute favourite red that is a medium value (not too expensive) non vintage.

Although California grown (Sonoma Valley) it is done in the old world style of Zinfandels and is really really good. It tastes of ripe black cherries and has a nice toasty oak taste. It finishes long and smooth and is not strong on tanins. This has been my house wine for some time.

Re: Starting to like wine...the Red version
 

Actually I do know what they are used for...as for a blind tasting I would be happy to...and be able to tell the diffference not only between say a napa cab and sonoma cab but a oakville vs a stags leap or howell mtn.

As for this thread it seems everytime you post all you do is try to prove your smarter then everyone else..just in case your wondering your not:ss all I was doing was trying to give a new wine drinker some inexpensive domestic cab recomendations.

Re: Starting to like wine...the Red version
 

Greg the icewine that you were refering to is Mission Hill Family Estate. I am sure you can have your local wine shop order it for you or find it on the internet...winezap is a good place to start a search.

Re: Starting to like wine...the Red version
 

Are you looking for wine to drink with dinner or enjoy a glass with a cigar?

Re: Starting to like wine...the Red version
 

They aren't allowed to ship cuban cigars either last I checked -(P

Re: Starting to like wine...the Red version
 

And if you do, then you'd know they are used to TAKE OUT tannin, they do not add anything in. In your post you challenged me when I stated that OZ wineries making cheap wine ADD stuff in. Tannin included among many other things.

I'd be happy to set up a blind tasting for you, next time you're in CA let me know and I will be happy to oblige. Just don't get too giddy, falling hard is the norm in blind tastings rather than success.

For someone who boasts of easily telling wines apart in a blind tasting I find it very strange that you have no idea the wine you recommended to the board doesn't even exist. Talk about expertise.

Re: Starting to like wine...the Red version
 

Tell you what, since no one is listening.

Start the PIF. Let me know how far you get ;)

Re: Starting to like wine...the Red version
 

And what wine would you be refering to that does not exist?

Re: Starting to like wine...the Red version
 

Blind tastings are really difficult, especially if they are of same body and color. Not every wine is true to its terrior either which further complicates it.

I am a believer that weather can have an effect on a wine performs. We have all experienced it. The same wine on different days, one time it's awesome, the other it's fair... The same case, same glass, different day. Why? And I am talking about hearty wines that should not vary per OWC and the difference is not cork or bottling related.

Re: Starting to like wine...the Red version
 

Thanks Ryan, I am hoping to get a discount from the lady who gave it to me. She works for a distributor.:tu

Re: Starting to like wine...the Red version
 

Riddick I am curious as to why you are so venomous in this thread. While I agree with your opinions on Australian wines in general I think your delivery is hostile and aggressive.

There are actually many Australian wines that I very much enjoy and find them comparable on many levels to the wines of the world...........I am assuming this doesn't make me stupid only of different tastes than others.

The OP was asking for opinions on Red Wine...........seems most folks where trying to do that, as luck would have it we all have opinions. Whether or not you agree with them is certainly your right, but to attack peoples knowledge or lack thereof based on them freely providing their opinions (as asked) to the OP seems somewhat self serving. You clearly are passionate about wines and seem to have a very good knowledge base but again I question your motives and your approach.

I am sure the OP would love some options of great wines that he could try based on your obvious depth of knowledge but attacking others because they like something seems well just rude. I have smoked cigars for years......I have tried hundreds upon hundreds of Non Cuban varieties and in truth I don't find much to like so I stick to Cubans............when people ask for advice on Cuban cigars I give what I know freely and hopefully friendily (not a word but it fits the purpose) what I don't do is hunt down Non Cuban thread recommendations and let loose a tirade on how there are a myriad of things that I don't like about NC's.

This thread has gone way of track of the OP's initial request and by this post I have contributed and for that I apologize.

Oh and on the shipping of bottles..............so far I am 15 for 15 in the past year, not that I am interested in doing a wine PIF just saying that what you say is impossible has been done. I would never recommend that someone circumvent the laws of their country or state.

Re: Starting to like wine...the Red version
 

There is a lot of good info in the thread, thanks! There is a total wine down the street from my house, I will have to try a tasting.

Shawn I will have to find some of the St. Francis Old Vine Zinfandel and give it a try.

What are some of the Valley's cheaper wines? Just for starters

Re: Starting to like wine...the Red version
 

I suggest you just try a bunch of different varietals, this is the easiest way to find what meets your palate

Re: Starting to like wine...the Red version
 

A good general rule (feel free to argue) - Don't buy a red wine over 14.1% alcohol unless it's a CdP. Yes, Zin's are an exception, but don't buy over 14.5%.

To put this in perspective, the world's most expensive and coveted wines are 13.5% and under. Many around 12%

Re: Starting to like wine...the Red version
 

There are exceptions, I'd like to note. For instance, perhaps the smoothest, most refined and "cultured" wines I've ever had is Mollydooker The Boxer Shiraz, which is not outrageous at under $30/bottle. Yet it is an outrageous 16% alcohol. Talk about sneaking up on a guy - yowzer!

Re: Starting to like wine...the Red version
 

I am not even going to comment on that one... I would not consider it cultured or refined at all, but that is what is fun about wine; there are many opinions and different tastes.

What are your other favorite wines or daily drinkers?

Re: Starting to like wine...the Red version
 

Go ahead and comment, as I'd like to hear your opinion, despite the fact that it apparently disagrees not only to my own, but also to every customer to whom I have sold this particular wine . . . to be more specific, the 2007 vintage. Shoot, I'll even sell YOU a case or three, if you like. :r

As for my other faves . . . well, to be honest, I'll drink dang near anything. Hey, after you get the first glass or three down, what's the freakin' diff? :ss

Re: Starting to like wine...the Red version
 

He's not hostile or aggressive, he's Russian. Different, but may appear similar. :D

I don't drink wine, but fall in the drink it if you like it corner. Don't rule out Chiantis either, many poo poo them, but the Italian in me tells you to give it a try. And yeah, hit up Trader Joe's, they often have really good prices on different wines. I don't drink the stuff, but I still have to buy it for the fiance. ;) :ss

Re: Starting to like wine...the Red version
 

Austrailian wine in general tastes too manipulated either by too much extraction, high alcohol, and almost all lack any terrior. They taste like concocted wine syrup. Mollydooker really typifies this new world style- which I am not a fan of. I am not singling out Mollydooker specifically, but lump it into with other Aussies like Thorne Clarke and Ball Buster…

My favorite Aussie and one I would point customers to is Torbreck’s “Woodcutter’s Reserve” Shiraz. Actually, Torbreck I would put on the top for mass produced Aussie wine.

Is Bud Light more acceptable as a beer just because it is outselling Anchor, Dogfish, and Dale’s? Certainly it is more acceptable to the bottom line of the balance sheet, but not as a fine beer.

You may sell more Wild Irish Rose than Petrus, but it does not legitimate Wild Irish Rose a contender in best wine prize.

Re: Starting to like wine...the Red version
 

:tpd:

Riddick isn't being hostile, passionate maybe but not hostile, he's just giving some technical information on wines, which is something he knows a hell of a lot about, and sometimes posts appear to come across a bit differently than intended.

I just take Greg's suggestions on wines, he's never steered me wrong yet.

Re: Starting to like wine...the Red version
 

Moses, it doesn't look we're getting through, seems like for some people here buying wine based on some arbitrary point score in a wine rag is good enough (do they buy cigars same way?).

I keep saying same thing you are about manipulation of wine in OZ, via huge expenditures into chem labs, and no, no one believes even though there is plenty of factual info available if one wants to explore (or is in business like I am and has to know what the competitors are up to). OX wineries are not shy about it, Yellow Tail is the prime example.

Inability of even seasoned palates to ID wines in a blind tastings consistently is a well documented fact by now yet it seems we now have 2 for 2 (second person in two weeks) claiming can easily do so. Even Parker makes mistakes in blind tastings he himself sets up and yet we have posters here who can. I guess they also have a nice bridge collection by now, too.

Recommending wines that do not even exist ("You Lie!") and then throwing a hissy fit when called on it.

So, I am attacked on the 3 points above, call the obvious bluff and chest beating, and then attacked some more in response. ("Gold, Jerry, it's gold!")

FUNNY...
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Spekaing of alcohol, do you recall what alc level is that legendary 1947 Petrus? :D

Re: Starting to like wine...the Red version
 

I have no idea, but I would guess 12%?

Re: Starting to like wine...the Red version
 

Riddick,

Again I will ask what wine I recomended that does not exist?
Also you keep harping on the blind tasting....all wine of the same varietal that is from different areas, called AVA's, have distinct differences in taste. That is why I stated its like comparing apples and oranges.


Why not relax and smoke a cigar and mellow out:ss

Re: Starting to like wine...the Red version
 

Ahem... The op didn't ask for advice on how to be an Amateur Sommelier or quite a bit more of chest puffing and ball busting going on in this thread. As far as the bud light analogy? Some people like it, (not me, but I digress) and it fits their budget, and it makes them happy. No reason to look down your nose at them or pooh pooh how it is produced. I think the advice of trying many different varietals and specific bottle or producer suggestions are what Kirk may have been looking for here, rather than treatises on production values and hackle raising finger pointing.
I give a brother on here crap all the time about his Miller lite fetish, but he knows it comes as good-natured ribbing and gives it back just as well. This thread is not that.