What Joe Cigar won't tell you, and how to fight it
 

1. "I move factory disgarded batches" and "My stuff is shipped green"

Sadly, a lot of the big names that appear on Joe (even the good deals) are most likely bad batches of an existing name. A good example of this was the 601 red deal that I bought four of. They were greener then hell and for a year and a half unsmokable. I gave a few out to friends, and tried one myself... They love em, but having smoked other 601 Reds I can tell you, that there is still something slightly off about em. Great smokes, just not like regular 601's. Even when they aren't "disguards" they are shipped still reeking of ammonia.

2. "I pile it high and deep" or "I sell indifferent product and call it the second coming"

Joe is a master at picking up off brands and stuff that doesent quite meet the muster of distinguishing afficianados (Gurkha... I'm looking at you!) And selling it as if its "mana from heaven".

Sadly I can tell you exactly why they do this. As evidenced by the continued existance of places like Thompson and Swisher Sweet, most cigar smokers couldnt tell the difference between a ten year old Monticristo and a three month old Creamosa.

3. "Most of my deals, are just the box price, divided by two"

Yes it's true folks. Most of the ten pack "deals" seen on Joe are just the regular box price, divided in two with free shipping tacked on.

Take Joe's deal today for example: La Gloria Cubana Wavells

What they dont tell you is that all they are giving you is a hair off their regular price.. Bear with me for a few seconds for some very simple calculations:

Take Joe Cigars per stick price, you can obtain this by dividing the number of sticks by the end price. In the case of todays Joe, you have 20 sticks, so, divide the price by the number of sticks, and you get the final price of $2.50 a stick. Now, go to Cigars International's website and look up their non sales price. It's $63.95 for a box of twenty five, with box, minus shipping. You get yourself a final price per stick of 2.558 or $2.56 a cigar.

Now, heres the part where it gets intresting.

Divide 2.558 by 2.50. You get a cost savings of only 2.32 percent. Thats around five cents a stick, for giving up a box. Now, I didn't figure in the shipping because honestly, you can find free shipping pretty easily with a lot of the codes floating around, that shouldn't be a factor.

Eye opening no?

4. "I'm not as good as I used to be"

A lot of the smoking hot deals you used to see on Joe arent there. In other words, you'll see a lot more coal before you see any diamonds.

5. "Most of the good deals you wont even see"

This is the one that pisses me off the most.

CI runs most if not ALL of their good Jambalaya deals either in the middle of the night or around 6 in the morning West Coast time.

As a marketing major I can tell you precisely why they do this. This is the time when most people are either still Asleep (West Coast) or just commuted in from work. They dont want people actually seeing this deal and acting on it... They DO want people to hear about it the next day. In other words, positive word of mouth without the need to actually pay much to generate it

Inmate 1: "Dude did you hear about the smokin deal on Joe today?"

Inmate 2: "No I gotta check on Joe more often!"

And thus the cycle continues.

This, more then anything else makes me madder then hell.

Now, I'm not suggesting anyone boycott Joe, as greedy scheming bastard that he is, and as many times as I've been caught by the hype I can say that Joe is still good for the occasional fair shake. But there are three things you can do to keep Joe's hands out of your pockets unless it is a genuine good deal.

1. Unsure about a smoke? Search the forums and Ask about before you pull the trigger.

This has saved me a lot of money on the long run, and kept me from pulling the trigger on some truly awful turds.

2. Divide the cost of a box by two, then see if that ten pack is such a good deal.

Take todays deal for example

Use any garden variety calculator or calculator program. Often times unless this is really a smoke you wanted to try, you find your urge to pull the trigger waning as you find that you can get a box for twice the Joe price, sometimes even less.

3. Wait an hour and stew. Unless this is a genuine smokin deal, waiting an hour wont hurt anything, and will give you the time to really think your purchase through. Oftentimes you find yourself saying "Nahhhh, I dont really need this. Wait an hour and stew.

Re: What Joe Cigar won't tell you, and how to figh
 

Great post! RG coming...Thanks...H

Re: What Joe Cigar won't tell you, and how to figh
 

Wow - much appreciated info !

Re: What Joe Cigar won't tell you, and how to figh
 

:tpd:

Re: What Joe Cigar won't tell you, and how to figh
 

+1. :tu

Re: What Joe Cigar won't tell you, and how to figh
 

It's funny, I always wondered if the sticks I have purchased from Joe were up to snuff with the regular production lines or if it was just me who thought they were a bit off. I think Tobii and and few others and I discussed this at a herf once too so at least I know I was not in the boat alone. Good to see there are others who feel the same. The pricing aspect is also another reason why I do not always find myself jumping on the deal of the day simply because if you do the math your not really catching much of a break at all unless you are looking for the convenience of not buying a whole box.
Great job bringing the subject to the forefront!:tu

Re: What Joe Cigar won't tell you, and how to figh
 

The DPG Blue's (Toro) that Joe has up there are not the same as ones you get from the box. I've posted this quite a bit and was told I was crazy but they ain't the same.... They were either too young, too wet or a different blend...

Re: What Joe Cigar won't tell you, and how to figh
 

:tpd:Great post!

Re: What Joe Cigar won't tell you, and how to figh
 

Excellent information, Drazz!!!

In all my inexperience, I would have never considered some of the points you made. Thanks for the head's up, brother!

Re: What Joe Cigar won't tell you, and how to figh
 

:tpd:

Between the ones I got from Joe, older blues from shops and then the NEW blue's.......

It's all over the place.

Re: What Joe Cigar won't tell you, and how to figh
 

great post thanks for the info ill have to watch it if i order any thing from them

Re: What Joe Cigar won't tell you, and how to figh
 

Yupper- very good info! Glad I've never bitten on any of his "deals!"

Re: What Joe Cigar won't tell you, and how to figh
 

Thanks for the pointers! I always let Joe's sit... that is if I ever actually pull the trigger! :ss

Re: What Joe Cigar won't tell you, and how to figh
 

good post, in my month of noobness i have yet to jump on a joe deal yet. just haven't seen anything that really appealed to me. ive bought there weekly deal once (5 vegas sampler) and ive bought the olivia 6pk sampler from cigarmonster, everything else has been cbid, it does seem like the better deals are to be had on jambalaya during weird 4am times.

Re: What Joe Cigar won't tell you, and how to figh
 

Excellent info in this post! :tu So far, I've never been tempted by Joe into one of his deals, thank God!

Another place you have to look is when you are checking out of CI with a purchase of some sort; So far, every deal they have offered me after putting the CC # in, is overpriced in the same manner as Joe's deals. :fl



:dance::dance::dance:

Re: What Joe Cigar won't tell you, and how to figh
 

Who's Joe?

Re: What Joe Cigar won't tell you, and how to figh
 

Re: What Joe Cigar won't tell you, and how to figh
 

Thanks for the info I totally agree I always thought there was something fishy about those 601's when I got them and the pepins when they landed. This just confirms it.

Re: What Joe Cigar won't tell you, and how to figh
 

:r

Re: What Joe Cigar won't tell you, and how to figh
 

This is interesting. The Blues I got from Joe were all great IMO. Maybe I'm a little too anti-conspiracy theory to buy into this :2....

Re: What Joe Cigar won't tell you, and how to figh
 

:tpd: I agree with the majority of the points made, and it has been a very long time since I've bitten on a Joe deal. I find it hard to believe that Eddie, Erik, or Pepin would let discards leave the factory though. Everything I've ever gotten out of the CI warehouse, whether from Joe, normal CI orders, cigar.com, or cigarbid has been shipped extremely wet, but once brought down to 65% or so has been fine.

Re: What Joe Cigar won't tell you, and how to figh
 

:tpd: Without a source verifying that Joe's smokes are actually "bad batches of an existing name" I really can't agree. I do however agree they are shipped too wet for my personal taste. I just let them hang out in the humi for a week or two and they smoke fine. I have to do the same for the cigars I pick up from the local B&M so it's not a big deal for me.

Re: What Joe Cigar won't tell you, and how to figh
 

It's funny you should menton that. I think I overheard someone complaining about a batch of 601 Reds, and believe hearing Pete Johnson say "From CI?"

Now I still have the 601's I got a year and a half ago from Joe Cigar, because right out of the box they tasted like ass. I recently tried another two, and they are indeed okay smokes now, my friends seem to rave about them, HOWEVER I think the 601 reds I get from the cigar shop are a lot smoother.

So, I draw my conclusions from that.

Re: What Joe Cigar won't tell you
 

One last thing I wanted to post on this subject is this:

Cigars International has a money back gurantee. Dont be afraid to send that sh-t back to the foul besmirched bunghole from which it came. If you call and complain, not only will they refund your money, they will pay for the shipping. If you get fooled by Joe or CI and dont like something, send it back.

I've started doing this myself and I've saved lots of money that I would otherwise have lost to Joe or another cigar company. If the cigar is bad, dont be afraid to tell CI or Holts or Famous about it.

Dont just hang onto em for years like I did, letting em clog up the humidor until you finally decide to gift them to neighbors or friends who won't know the difference.

Re: What Joe Cigar won't tell you, and how to figh
 

I've never had anything but great experiences from the CI staff and their customer service is excellent. I'm not sure what your motivation is to post this nor how you can be so sure that they're selling sub-par product, if not factory seconds. Hope you've never purchased anything on CigarBid, cause that's CI, too. No matter if you think Joe's prices are a rip-off or not, the fact of the matter is, you'll never find a cheaper price on the cigars he's selling when comparing apples to apples. Ever. Just thought I'd add my :2 during the Joecigar.com bashing session.

Jason

Re: What Joe Cigar won't tell you, and how to figh
 

I agree!:tu I buy 90% of my smokes from CI and have never had a problem. I do let my sticks rest at least a month before smoking, though. Thanks for the advice & heads up!:)

Re: What Joe Cigar won't tell you
 

I am not really bashing Joe, just pointing out a few opinions I have on some of the sales tactics that he has. Dont get me wrong, I love me some Joe. As pissed as I get at Joe, I still love him like a brother... I just hide the silverware and lock up the small valuable things whenever he comes over.

Re: What Joe Cigar won't tell you, and how to figh
 

Thanks for the post bro,something to keep in the back of my mind when and if i go through Joe!

Re: What Joe Cigar won't tell you, and how to figh
 

I love that avatar man. I've always been a fan of monopoly.

Re: What Joe Cigar won't tell you, and how to figh
 

Good read, very eye opening

Re: What Joe Cigar won't tell you, and how to figh
 

I NEVER order from CI ... They are the King of Sh@# Sticks IMHO :cb

Re: What Joe Cigar won't tell you, and how to figh
 

I will agree that much of what Joe and CI ship needs to dry out for a while before smoking but I will not accept that they are selling seconds or rejects as first quality smokes. CI is too large a vendor and has too much to lose if these points were ever proven. I remember when as a group we were much more careful about calling out a vendor in a manner such as the first post.

Re: What Joe Cigar won't tell you, and how to figh
 

AMEN BRUDDA!!!!

I have bought many MANY of the Joe deals....and I'll be damned if there wasn't something fishy going on....we talked about this for a while, even pulling sticks out and comparing them to a stick fresh out of a box.....maybe it's a conspiracy...I don't know...but what I do know....

Between the Torano and JdNA sticks most recently, BOTH were FLAT.....the Toranos didn't even look similar....scary thought really.....but my JdNA's were baffling.....I'm a big face melter fan...and JdNA's don't go on sale very often..when they do, you jump.....these Consuls were duds....not that you can complain from Iraq, but they were a a FAR cry from the ones I had on hand when I deployed.....

Re: What Joe Cigar won't tell you, and how to figh
 

Just my :2, but unless you have some facts to back this up, it's not cool to slam a vendor (and the manufacturers supplying these cigars) with an accusation like this. Some of the joecigar's deals are good, some aren't, and handmade premium cigars will never be completely consistent. To claim that CI, DPG, and others would compromise their reputations by selling second-quality products as "firsts" requires solid evidence, not just an anecdotal report of one box of cigars tasting different than another box.

Re: What Joe Cigar won't tell you, and how to figh
 

Very interesting post:tu

Re: What Joe Cigar won't tell you, and how to figh
 

I don't feel you are bashing Joe at all. I have found while doing the math that you are right and instead of buying a box I can get the 10 for less sometimes. That happened to me with some Gurkha Titans and I always compare pricing from boxes all the way down to singles and then see if a sale is really a sale. As far as having a cigar order that didn't taste like it is supposed to, I haven't had a problem with CI.

Re: What Joe Cigar won't tell you, and how to figh
 

Thanks for the tip. I'm enough of a noob that I would have thought I didn't care for the brand I ordered rather than suspecting what you have pointed out.

- Rob

Re: What Joe Cigar won't tell you, and how to figh
 

I don't order from the joe deals very often but I've had pretty good luck, no complaints from me.

Re: What Joe Cigar won't tell you, and how to figh
 

"To claim that CI, DPG, and others would compromise their reputations by selling second-quality products as "firsts" requires solid evidence, not just an anecdotal report of one box of cigars tasting different than another box."

All I am saying is that when the DPG cigars that get sold on joe come in unsorted bundles, some coal black others light tan. I do believe that when the boxes are sorted the leftover gets celo'd & bundled and sent to the bulk discount retailers... all businesses work this way, why would cigars be different? I have bought numerous boxes of DPG JJ natural and maduro, blues and blacks... I have also bought all of these brands multiple times from joe, they have been different... flaky and papery wrappers, goofy coloring, too spicy, not spicy enough etc... I am not saying they are bad or not worth it, but they are different some of the time...

Re: What Joe Cigar won't tell you, and how to figh
 

I've bought several of the Pepin deals from CI. I've also bought a lot of boxes of Pepin cigars. Um, same smokes.

Re: What Joe Cigar won't tell you, and how to figh
 

:r :r :r

http://www.shiptonblog.com/uploaded_...hat-755294.jpg

Happy New Year !

Chas

Re: What Joe Cigar won't tell you, and how to figh
 

:cb

Re: What Joe Cigar won't tell you, and how to figh
 

I can't say I have ever got a bad stick from Joe. I have got wet sticks that had to sit for a few months. I will also say that I have not seen anything worth buying from Joe in months.

Re: What Joe Cigar won't tell you, and how to figh
 

Same here. Infact I have had a few bad DPG from brick and mortars that were wet and burned horrid when they just got them in. I know where this shop orders from and it isnt Joe. Further if people didnt know Joe ships wet as almost every large vendor I dont know what to tell you.

The Best DPJ JJ Maduros I have ever had and still have some left were a Joe special. I tressure them and often have to fight the urge. They are every bit as good and in my opinion better then the LBM.

This said I primarily only buy CC. Joe buys are only Pepins and his associated products

*****************************************
3. "Most of my deals, are just the box price, divided by two" WT*???

Huge issue with your math by the way. Looking at my past order history
9/8/08 and 12/16/08
Joe 10 DPG Blue generoso 35.00 free shipping no tax = 3.50 a stick
Joe 25 " " 174.00 no free ship no tax = 6.96 a stick
Local B&M more and taxed also

or 6/16/08
Joe 10 DPG JJ MAD Selectos 42.50 free shipping no tax 4.25 a stick
Joe 25" " 180.00 no free ship no tax 7.20 a stick
Local B&M more and taxed also

Last week 12 5 vegas knuckles for 32.50

I could list 15 more deals to further my point but this is enough. Yes occassionally the deals are not that great. Its called marketing and business. If he gives away the farm every day there will be no farm after a while. That said I was able to disprove one of your arguments with NO EFFORT.

Dont click here as it fails your math test also
http://www.cigarsinternational.com/p...m=CS-JYB&cat=3

I am sure there are holes in your other arguments but to be honest I only skimmed your post. Dont like Joe dont buy. I will continue to buy when I see deals on things I like. Are they over runs probablly some. I have smoked them and many other non joes and rarely see a difference.

#5 argument is all over the place by the way and not factual as to times deals are listed. midnight eastern on daily deal and the other ones usually come out 12pm pacific or thats when my emails come in. Where did you get these times you stated?

Re: What Joe Cigar won't tell you, and how to figh
 

:tpd::2

As always let the buyer beware. I have bought some smokes from Joe and have been happy. I always check the price on the web before I pull the trigger. JMHO but it is up to you to do your homework first!

Re: What Joe Cigar won't tell you, and how to figh
 

Definitely food for thought, thanks for the post.

Re: What Joe Cigar won't tell you, and how to figh
 

thread jack/
speaking of daily deals, cigarmonster doesn't seem to be loading for me? anyone else have any luck?

/thread jack

Re: What Joe Cigar won't tell you, and how to figh
 

Continuing your thread jack, Cigar Monster is working for me.

Re: What Joe Cigar won't tell you, and how to figh
 

tj/ yeah its working now, was down for a couple hours though /tj

Re: What Joe Cigar won't tell you, and how to figh
 

Sorry brother, you're wrong. And you're cherrypicking to boot. Yes, I will admit the occasional deal does roll down, but thats the exception, not the rule. The trend with Joe Cigar deals if you watch them seems to be either box price divided by two w/addition of free shipping a clearance brand that they want to get rid of, or Gurkha. You rarely see a break from that established pattern. Oh, you can try that "math" of mine again today 12/31/08 and it will prove itself. Go ahead... I'll wait.

You're quoting a deal that's 7 months old and telling me I "fail a math test" for talking about trends? Riiiight....

You only skimmed my post, of which I took the time to share insights and tactics to save people money and you want to slam me for it?

Okay. Whatever floats your boat.