Acquiring rare Bourbons - Any tips?
 

I see lots of posts about PVW and Limited Edition this and Limited Edition that. How do you go about getting a bottle of these? Are there dates published when stuff will be shipped? Do you have to know your liquor store guys well?

Re: Acquiring rare Bourbons - Any tips?
 

I used to belong to two scotch clubs through D and M in San Francisco. They also have an American Whiskey club: http://dandm.com/clubs/american-whiskey.html

This way, they hunt down the bottling and you get a wide selection.

Re: Acquiring rare Bourbons - Any tips?
 

Here's the best advise I found online.

http://howtobuypappy.com/

Re: Acquiring rare Bourbons - Any tips?
 

You have got to know them BEYOND well . . . you have to be a personal friend or their best customer. They don't even know what their allocation will be, or even when it will come in (most of the time). And the allocation is usually small (only a few bottles) so that only their best friends or best customers will only get a bottle or two.

The next question is "at what cost?", because some of these liquor store owners will even gouge the price to the lucky ones that they offer it to (which is a damned shame!) Sometimes the shop owner just decides to be greedy and puts it out on the shelf to see what he can get, and we have a local store here that has every bottle of Pappy's right now in stock (@ $1,399 for the 20 year, $2,399 for the 23 yr, etc.)

If anybody here is willing to pay THAT, then I might consider selling a bottle or two! :D

Re: Acquiring rare Bourbons - Any tips?
 

:tpd:

Re: Acquiring rare Bourbons - Any tips?
 

Binny's Chicago

Re: Acquiring rare Bourbons - Any tips?
 

They are all available, on the Secondary/Black Market!

However, the problem there, is the pricing. Pappy 15yo is probably the cheapest, of all the truly collectible bourbons/whiskeys you can find and it normally is priced in the $800 plus range. I've seen the Pappy 23 at $2400

The other truly rare bourbons/whiskeys are similarly priced.

Re: Acquiring rare Bourbons - Any tips?
 

Bourbon prices have skyrocketed in the last 10 years and quality isn't the same due to demand. Be careful on what you buy and how much you spend on it. Counterfeit bottles are on the rise. I would be hesitant to buy on secondary market for high priced bottle.

Re: Acquiring rare Bourbons - Any tips?
 

Yea I was looking for tips on knowing when stuff might be on the shelves at my local place. Not looking for pappy, just interested in other stuff

Re: Acquiring rare Bourbons - Any tips?
 

We have our county liquor stores that are managed as a group and I have been on the so called "waiting list" for five years, but so far nothing. You can always ask at your local store as it is worth a chuckle to see what they say. The privately owned stores in DC only provide Pappy to their best customers and I will never be in that group.

Re: Acquiring rare Bourbons - Any tips?
 

That is brilliant.

.....I just want to be able to get Elmer T Lee again.. :sh

Re: Acquiring rare Bourbons - Any tips?
 

A lot of it is being in the right place at the right time (unless you spend a lot with one store and they hook you up). Keep an eye on blogs to get a rough idea of when stuff is being released and go to stores more often.

Re: Acquiring rare Bourbons - Any tips?
 

Thanks, any good blogs you can recommend?

Re: Acquiring rare Bourbons - Any tips?
 

Lol...that's about right....they jack the prices so high where I live Im not even interested...just grab a glass here and there if a restaurant has it....:tu

Re: Acquiring rare Bourbons - Any tips?
 

There are lots of Facebook groups that are dedicated to whiskey. Just do a quick search.

Re: Acquiring rare Bourbons - Any tips?
 

For Bourbon lovers this is the best I've found:

http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/


Most of the limited release and seasonal bourbons start showing up late fall just before the holidays, especially the Buffalo Trace Antique collection and Pappy.

Re: Acquiring rare Bourbons - Any tips?
 

I acquired a bottle of Bulliet Burbon in the coolest manner today. We're up at our place in Lake Tahoe and I'm loading up a kayak and my wife's paddle board when a large pickup truck rolls up to hook up to a trailer across from the kayak rack. I tell him that I'll only be a minute and he'll have the lot to himself, easier to hook up that way. He gets out and introduces himself and says he is looking for iconic locations to photograph a custom trailer he is using to market his distillery. Wow, I say, we love good Scotch and Burbon, and proceed to give him directions to a few places I think will go good with his plan. He and I talk Burbon for several minutes, he thanks me for my " local" knowledge and hands me a bottle of Bulliet Burbon! Way cool! I thank him, tell him his Burbon and Rye are some of our favorites, and send him on his way. He thanks me several times for helping him, he'll be putting the pictures on Instagram, and once they are up I'll share the link. The new bottle is resting in our liquor cabinet waiting for a good reason to open it up. Cheers!

Re: Acquiring rare Bourbons - Any tips?
 

Cool, Rob. Somebody gave me a can of Bud once, but it wasn't cool.

Re: Acquiring rare Bourbons - Any tips?
 

Just being home, in the evening, after a hard day, is a plenty good reason to open that bottle. It's certainly not rare and it's pretty dam good! Enjoy!

Re: Acquiring rare Bourbons - Any tips?
 

That's a great sight, with a host of very knowledgeable and friendly members, however, you cannot sell or buy on the sight, not even between members. I have no doubt that you can make friends with some of us and conduct trades and sales privately, but it's not an easy thing to do.

You should certainly join up for great information & discussions.

Re: Acquiring rare Bourbons - Any tips?
 

somehow a friend of mine got a bottle of 20 yr a couple years back. We drank most of it at our work Christmas party in 2013, it was amazing. I was a bourbon hater until that moment, but I would do terrible things for another bottle

Re: Acquiring rare Bourbons - Any tips?
 

Pappy juice died back in circa 2009. The SW source went dry and what people drank was Buffalo Trace (kind of like Black Maple Hill). But people chase labels, like bands on cigars, and PVW still sell for insane prices, because the market hasn't corrected itself. However, like all things, when people finally wake up and realize, prices will normalize. I've noticed that only sellers and friends of sellers don't like it when truth is told. So arm yourself with some knowledge before venturing.

You should try High West before that juice runs out. I think that is the old Seagram's stuff.

Re: Acquiring rare Bourbons - Any tips?
 

Bourbon and Scotch are always coming up at auction. Keep mind a bottle of distilled liquor that sits in the bottle for a long time will taste different than a fresh bottled one.

Re: Acquiring rare Bourbons - Any tips?
 

Just curious, what chemical process do you think does that?

Re: Acquiring rare Bourbons - Any tips?
 

bump

Re: Acquiring rare Bourbons - Any tips?
 

The process is certainly different from wine (which changes relatively quickly)

Two that come to mind:

1.) Oxidation - a certain degree of ullage occurs over time (evaporation etc) - thus when your whiskey level drops much, it is time to finish it off. The change is virtually imperceptible to most people - unless you try new vs opened bottles of scotch one day. The new scotch is just "brighter"

2.) Precipitation. Much like tannins precipitate out in wine, vanillins, ketones, esters and other cogeners (heavy byproducts of distillation) will precipitate to some degree. Although it won't spoil or "die", the whiskey character will change a bit.

Although you can keep whiskey for a long time (and a modest time once open), you shouldn't leave it for your grandchildren. It is not improving. The best date to drink is soon after bottling.

It is also a fallacy that really long barrel ageing will improve whiskey more. There is a point where the vanilla and barrel flavours overwhelm any fruit, and the whiskey is just old and tired. The frighteningly expensive 40 year old scotches are not worth the thousands (IMHO).

Sweet spot for peated Islay is about an 18-25 year old

Come to think of it....

Re: Acquiring rare Bourbons - Any tips?
 

I just learned about cork taint and the use of saran wrap the other day. Ok not really much to add but why waste knew knowledge!

Re: Acquiring rare Bourbons - Any tips?
 

Here's what I tell my customers. Support one shop. Make all your big purchases from them. Get to know the staff. If you drop some coin throughout the year and you become a regular face, you will get the rare bottles.

Re: Acquiring rare Bourbons - Any tips?
 

I would not buy expensive Bourbon on the secondary markets; way too many fake bottles out there. For sure I would not pay for a dram of fancy Bourbon at a restaurant; very high fake rate. Unless you see them crack the bottle open, be very skeptical with the likes of Pappy...

If you get a chance to try an old un-opened bottle of whiskey that you are familiar with, you'll see what time in the bottle does. You'll lose some of the freshness and pop of new bottle, but gain some smoothness that only time can do.

It's not too hard to find a Seagram or Canadian Club bottle that 20-50 years old. Think of your older relatives that do not drink but had that bottle sitting around forever.

Re: Acquiring rare Bourbons - Any tips?
 

Bingo.

Esquire had an article yesterday that touched on this very subject. It's interesting that there's a big market for empty Pappy bottles. It talks about how empties of the 20-year old have sold for $200 on E-Bay and how a guy has found serial numbers from used bottles on "new" offerings on some of the secondary market web sites.
It's worth a read if you're a bourbon fan and have seven minutes to spare or so.

Re: Acquiring rare Bourbons - Any tips?
 

So- has anybody compared Weller Antique with PVW?

Re: Acquiring rare Bourbons - Any tips?
 

Your thinking is going in the right direction......

Both wheated. Lots of rumors about where the barrels that are not selected for Pappy bottling go. Weller 12 year?????:)