Boveda Packs Regeneration
 

I use a lot of 65% Boveda packs. I often find them rock hard among "stuff".
A couple weeks ago I found two, and I'd always guessed I could soak them in water to juice them up again, so I tried it.
It works just fine. No need for distilled water because dissolved solids can't pass through the membrane, anyways. There's just salt solutions in them to begin with, so there's no "right amount of water" to worry about, either. It's pretty awesome.

Awhile back I looked around to see if I could find some semi-permeable membrane of some sort to make big Boveda packs for my stuff. I never did leg it out, I got drawed off. I need to get back to that. :tu

Re: Boveda Packs Regeneration
 

Please do, I'll be your test subject, you dont even have to pay me very much :tu

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I tried it also, but it seemed to turn the membrane yellow and make it very weak. I was afraid of it busting and ruining stogies.

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I recharge my Boveda packs all the time. I just put them in a tupperware with a cup of water such that they don't get wet, and close it up. In a week, charged packs.

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I've been recharging the boveda packs for years using basically the same method as Darren described, put them in a tupperware with a wet sponge and seal it up for a while.

I did recently toss one of the small wet-nap ones into a container of water to see what would happen, the labels/outer "paper" fell off within 24 hours, then it eventually expanded to about the size of a golf ball.

Re: Boveda Packs Regeneration
 

I just went and looked some more, I can't find any kind of membrane aside from dialysis stuff. Latex might work, dunno. I suppose I'll have to go search permeability by size.
It's not fun so far. I bet that's why I stopped looking before. :)

These big packs have been soaking for a couple weeks, at least. They haven't degraded a lick. :sh

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I dunno Scott. I used RO water rather than tap, but I can't see that making a difference. Maybe the two sizes use different materials for the outer layer? This was one of the white colored packs if that helps any.

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:tpd:

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No clue at all. I bet you're right, though. The white ones seem different. I have the brown paper ones.

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^^^This^^^

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I figured out what I can use to make packs. Now I just have to find some and this is a party. I'm looking forward to messing around with it. I already tested umpteen saturated salt solutions for use with SAP, but it all sucks cause the salt crawls all over. The only way to hold it in is pvc.

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Take a look at the humi bags on this page. I just got some of these in a shipment from Atlantic. It's apparently what you want, built into a plastic bag.

http://www.sikarlan.com/OTHERS.htm

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Here are some photos. If there is anything on it that you want examined or a closer shot of, LMK.

Re: Boveda Packs Regeneration
 

Adam, in that state, do they still maintain their set rh?

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I just dunk the Boveda in water until it gets squishy again. Must have done it at least 5 times per bag. Works better with bigger ones.

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I haven't bothered to check yet, so I'll have to test one and get back to you.

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Thanks. I would imagine that the salt concentration must have a lot to do with performance.

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I'll hafta try that, I have quite a few of these. Does it matter how hard they've gotten, or should they still have some "squish" to them?

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I regenerate mine, too. I also wonder if The RH is accurate after this.:confused:

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It will regenerate from completely crisp.

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I have 2 84% brown packs...stiff as boards. Will try this and see what happens. :)

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There's no reason it should change, but I'm looking forward to hearing what you find out.
Just throw it in a ziplock bag with your hygro?

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That's what I would think too, but it's simple enough to check. Although I have to find my hygro first. I think I accidentally burred it in one of the troop coolers. :r

I'm taking to Michael right now about the ones he has for sale.

Re: Boveda Packs Regeneration
 

Does the recharged Boveda still read the humidity specified on the pack after a charge?

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It should. The salt ratio shouldnt change.

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Once you take them out of their bath, do you air dry them or?........

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I prefer to put them in a window with a Western exposure, so they get the afternoon sun. When, they're dry, the bags need to be gently massaged to fluff up the crystals.

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Thanks!

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https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=HN.6080...46696&pid=15.1

:D

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The ratio won't change a bit. It can't. A saturated salt solution (which is what Boveda packs are) can only ever be the RH it is. The reason that's a constant is because of the volume of the Boveda packs. You couldn't get enough water in one of those packets to dilute the salt far enough that it wouldn't continue being saturated. (Saturated chemically speaking.)
Different salts achieve a different RH over themselves based on their composition. Sodium Chloride, table salt, yields 75.67% RH at 10*C.
This is a really good read for all stuff salt/RH related, and will show you guys the different RH values for different salts.

What I've always wanted to know, and I started doing experiments when I was developing the HCM beads, is "can a brother mix salts and make a custom RH?"
I never finished the experiments, so I never found out.
I'll figure it out one of these days if I'm ever so moved.
It might seem like a really stupid question, but the answer to that question, coupled with some charts and graphs, would be a boon for us cigar hoarders. It'd open up a huge amount of opportunities for do-it-yourself humidity control. :tu

Re: Boveda Packs Regeneration
 

Actually, you can, Scott. Although keep in mind that this pack was allowed to absorb water and expand beyond it's design parameters. Hygrometer and battery are new, and was calibrated with the Boveda 75% calibration kit just prior to placing in the bag with the expanded pack a few days ago.

http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/attach...1&d=1396370901

Re: Boveda Packs Regeneration
 

Holee sack, Adam. lol
That's just one of those itty bitty guys. You're absolutely right, I stand corrected. You manged to get enough water in there that the solution is no longer salt-saturated.
The ones I'm messing with are the big 65% ones. I dried them out completely and there's a good amount of salt in there. So much so that if I filled it like a ready-to-pop balloon like yours, it should remain saturated.
Now I'm not sure, though. I think I'll fill them the rest of the way and mess around with it some more.

It does make sense, what you found out. If these things are made with just enough salt to saturate the design amount of water, that creates a stumbling point for recharging them. Get too crazy and it's going to give up copious amounts of vapor till it reaches saturation again and starts to work right.
If we didn't know what was going on, we'd likely try recharging once, assume it doesn't work, and not bother again. Easier to just buy some new ones.

Thanks for hanging with me on this, my brother. Ya know, this is just how we all invented the hcm and hcs beads. A whole bunch of guys back at the old place joined me and we messed with a bunch of media till we got it all dialed in with real-world data.
I still haven't figured out how to improve on hcm beads. I tried tons of salts, denatured alcohols, glycols, combinations of those, saturated polymers, everything I could think of.
It's still easier just to use hcm beads with Boveda packs for an extra water-sink and to keep them dialed in. It's an awesome combo. :tu

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No problem Scott.

Yeah, these little ones seem to have very tight margins for how much water they can hold. Neither of the two in the attached photo were recharged by dunking, they were both allowed to sit in sealed containers with moistened sponges at the opposite end of the container. The 69% pack is puffed up, but to no where near the amount that the one with the failed label was. The 72% pack has even less water in it than the 69% pack.

I have the failed label pack sitting out on the counter, once it drops back to something resembling original size, I'll test it again.


http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/attach...1&d=1396656626

Re: Boveda Packs Regeneration
 

So, here are some weights on various packs.

75% calibration pack*: 8.1g
failed label 72%**: 29.4g
Pack 1 (72% from previous photo): 10.5g
Pack 2 (69% from previous photo): 16.8g
Pack 3 (69% almost crunchy pack now in bag with hygro): 6.1g
Pack 4 (72% crunchy pack): 3.3g

*: has been in use for 10-12 days now in the supplied bag, 3 hygrometers calibrated
**: has been sitting out for a few days

Weights measured with 500g x 0.1g digital scale.

I'll retest the humidity on the packs when they drop down to around 8g or 9g.

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That's good stuff, Adam!!!
I'll be watching for the results. :tu

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Pack #1 was down to 8.6g this morning so I tossed it in a bag with a hygometer. Will check readings this evening.

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Thanks, brother.
I threw the two I had setting out back in my winador.

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Hmmm , I think we need to examine the weight on a given brand new pack , and then recharge a used one to the same weight , then do a side by side and see where they level out at with calibrated hygros. Im starting to think that recharging them wont keep the setpoint the same.

Re: Boveda Packs Regeneration
 

It's physically impossible for the salt to pass through the membrane of the pack due to it's larger molecular size, so the set point will absolutely remain the same so long as the water level is within design specifications. It's when the packs are overcharged past specifications and the ratio of water to salt is excessive, the pack will no longer maintain the design setpoint until enough water has been released from the pack to return to the design ratio.

A lot of what you mentioned has already been done and recorded in previous posts. What hasn't been posted yet is the results from testing the previously overcharged pack #1 once it dropped back into range because as with all other readings, 2-3 days are allowed for the environment to stabilize before readings are taken. Pack #1 was placed in the isolated environment on the 8th, which was 2 days ago. Reads will be posted when it's ready and I have time.

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I've recharged smaller packs using the tupperware/distilled water method. Works like a charm.
I'm using 1 lb of beads and 5 large packs in my cooler. I split the beads into 1/2 lb containers and overly saturate one container with the other one lightly spritzed. The packs soak up the excess from the beads and give out moisture when the beads start to dry out. Everything has been an didn't a stable 67% for the last year and I've only had to recharge the beads once.

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So, as pretty much exactly as expected, after dropping back into the proper weight range and therefore correct salt ratios, the packs are performing as labeled:

Pack #1 - when overcharged, was pushing 78%, now it's been holding steady for a few weeks at 72% once it dropped back down to 8.6g

Pack #2 - previously overcharged with 16.9g total weight, was hovering at 79%. Now, back down to about 9g, it has been holding at 69%.

BTW Scott, from testing the packs along the way as they lost moisture, max weight seems to be around 9.5g give or take for these smaller packs. Over that and they are going to read high, below that and they are fine.

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For anyone interested, the B----- website calls them 8 gram for the small and 60 gram for the large.

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Thanks for finding the info, Darren. That makes sense with what I saw; since it's a two-way pack, they are going to sell with the salt solution over saturated so it still has the capability of absorbing some excess humidity while maintaining the setpoint RH. If they sell it at a charged/total weight of 8g, they get crunchy around 3.3g, this means there is about 4.7g of water in there. When over charged, I saw it start hitting the target RH once it dropped to about 9.5g in weight when placed into a dry bag, so that means it has the ability to absorb approximately an additional 30% water, which is reasonable.

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My pleasure!

If all these values are fixed (RH setpoint of the RO membrane, etc.), can we graph out how long a depleted pack must soak to hit the target weight?:sh

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That about wraps up this test. Very nicely, too.
Well done, gentlemen!!! :tu

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:D

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Maybe.

There are some things we don't know about these packs, like what the transfer rate is through the membrane. Also you have a variable for how dried out the pack really is when you start and water temperature might also be a variable.

I suppose I can take a few dried out packs and toss them in water, then periodically pull them out to weigh them. Not exactly the most scientific method, but maybe narrow the times down a little bit.

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I do this all the time too, the only drawback I can tell is they seem to dry up faster after the recharge. Still getting SAME RH for most part though. So I got a 12 pack and just rotate.

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It was just a thought. You guys have done some good work and it was fun geeking-out with you. Personally, I use the sealed Tupperware method but that takes time; a quicker way would be helpful but at this point, you've done enough work. Bravo-Zulu!:salute:

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That would mean that "re-charged" humidity escapes the humi faster than "new" humidity or that a new pack works slower than a re-charged pack.:hm The new ones do feel different from re-charged ones, though.