Saints accused of "Bounty Program". Thoughts?
 

Just like the Title says, I'm wondering what the good folks here think about it.

Re: Saints accused of "Bounty Program". Thoughts?
 

Always has been, probably always will be...they just happened to get caught.

Re: Saints accused of "Bounty Program". Thoughts?
 

X2...In all levels and types of sports.:2

Re: Saints accused of "Bounty Program". Thoughts?
 

That's my thoughts. Like with Spygate. They weren't the only teams doing it, just the first to get caught.

Re: Saints accused of "Bounty Program". Thoughts?
 

Bounties may not get spoken out loud from now on, but a few grand in the pocket and a steak dinner can't be beat :tu

Re: Saints accused of "Bounty Program". Thoughts?
 

Until the IRS gets involved due to undeclared income. I hope that they get the same hatred that was given the Patriots.

Re: Saints accused of "Bounty Program". Thoughts?
 

All I know is that some dude's had to have made some coin beating the piss out of Brett Favre a couple of years ago.

Re: Saints accused of "Bounty Program". Thoughts?
 

Yep. That's going to be the biggest fallout from all of this i think.
Spygate and this aren't even in the same league.

Re: Saints accused of "Bounty Program". Thoughts?
 

I could not care less..... I am sure there will be some significant fines levied by the NFL, but this comes as no surprise. Been going on forever....and will continue to go on.

Re: Saints accused of "Bounty Program". Thoughts?
 

In High School and College, the bounties are stickers on your helmet... They go out headhunting, leave a few guys withering on the ground, you can bet they'll be adding to their stamp collection. The guys in the NFL just get paid more....;)

Re: Saints accused of "Bounty Program". Thoughts?
 

Less than shocked.

Re: Saints accused of "Bounty Program". Thoughts?
 

Listened to Mike and Mike a bit this morning. Over all the "outrage" about how much Warner and Favre got hit, they said there weren't any hits that were illegal.

Re: Saints accused of "Bounty Program". Thoughts?
 

Let's see...people getting paid to intentionally injure someone...sounds like a felony to me. Actually, it sounds like several felonies.

Re: Saints accused of "Bounty Program". Thoughts?
 

Care to explain hockey, boxing, MMA, et al.?

Re: Saints accused of "Bounty Program". Thoughts?
 

It all has to do with intent. The object of hockey is not to harm anyone, it is to score more points than your opponent. The object of boxing, like all such sports, is to likewise score more points than the opponent. If the intent is to cause physical harm, then that is a felony. One can't even say that they gave consent to be harmed, because a person cannot legally give that consent. Injuries incidental to a particular sport are accidents, but when someone is targeted for harm...well, what would you call it?

Re: Saints accused of "Bounty Program". Thoughts?
 

I think Gregg Williams may need a paper route. :)

Re: Saints accused of "Bounty Program". Thoughts?
 

I think its relatively shady...because they are already getting paid to basically hurt someone so the added incentive seems unneeded. That being said, I'm not even a little bit shocked and not "outraged" as a fan. I realize it's part of the game and that's just how it works.

Re: Saints accused of "Bounty Program". Thoughts?
 

IMHO...its football. Don't like getting hit, dont play football. Teams would gun for other teams star players if there was money on the line or not. College players do it for a sticker on the helmet. Part of being a good player is taking the extra hit or the cheap shot getting up and continuing to make good plays.

To top it all off I have a hard time feeling sorry for someone who makes what these guys make; and then strikes since it's not good enough.

Re: Saints accused of "Bounty Program". Thoughts?
 

1. The object of the game is to win; whether it be hockey, boxing, football, or tiddlywinks. What boxer (unless we're talking about Pretty Boy Floyd) goes in thinking, "gee, I hope to outpoint my opponenet"?

2. If it's done within the confines (rules) of the game, it isn't illegal, period.

3. As much as the league already babies the offense, if anything out of the ordinary was happening on the playing field wouldn't it have been reflected in fines, suspensions, or other penalties?

Sorry, it isn't against the rules to hit someone hard.:sh

Re: Saints accused of "Bounty Program". Thoughts?
 

Yeah the steaks and cash would be income for the players, compensation really. Unless they some how can structure it as "meals and entertainment" or some other avoidance measure. I'd imagine it would be a tax deductable business expense for the team though.

Re: Saints accused of "Bounty Program". Thoughts?
 

Pretty Boy Floyd was a gangster, not a boxer, but you may be on to something: why not just issue everybody pistols?

Re: Saints accused of "Bounty Program". Thoughts?
 

I'm not exactly up to speed with all the hockey rules, so would you please tell me how many points this is worth? Thanks.

Re: Saints accused of "Bounty Program". Thoughts?
 

Because everyone would shoot your straw man.

Re: Saints accused of "Bounty Program". Thoughts?
 

I have to agree with Subvet on this one. I love to see a hard hit just as much as anyone, but when you're paying guys to take out Player X, Y, or Z, that's just not right, IMO. And before you jump into it, yes, I've played the game. I never went out on the field with the intent to injure someone.

I'm sure that there are other teams that have done this, too. But it just doesn't have a place in the game, IMO. Hit them hard, bruise them up, and make them think about getting hit and change the decisions they're going to make to what you want them to do. Bounty's tell me that you don't think you can beat the other team fairly, without trying to injure the players on the other team. That's what this is about. It's not about hitting someone hard. It's about the intent to cause a physical injury and end their game (and potentially season/career, if they get hurt badly enough).

One of the things I've heard in listening to some sports talk about this is that the NFL is behind the 8ball here. They are being sued by former (and current) players for failing to protect them enough. Goodell really has no choice but to drop the hammer on Williams/et al. A slap on the wrist will not be enough, and would only add fuel to the pending lawsuits. Not only that, they warned them when they investigated previously to NOT do it (at least as far as I know).

Re: Saints accused of "Bounty Program". Thoughts?
 

That's not a "Straw Man" argument, it's Reductio Ad Absurdum, but it sure sounded clever. :D

Re: Saints accused of "Bounty Program". Thoughts?
 

None, of course.

Re: Saints accused of "Bounty Program". Thoughts?
 

I have watched this happen at the grade school level. Theres one "school" on the local reservation that always targets the best players of other teams with "incentives" to do so.

At the pro leval....Yea it's uncool but It's entertainment, Great for drama and media buzz. It keeps people talking about it thus bringing in money. Next thing you know they will find performance enhancing drugs in pro sports.;)

Re: Saints accused of "Bounty Program". Thoughts?
 

Playing within the rules of the game, you're just as likely to injure someone on a vicious hit, intent or no, wouldn't you agree? That's why this is politics run amuck and nothing more. People are getting caught up with, "intent" and not, "applicability." :2

Re: Saints accused of "Bounty Program". Thoughts?
 

Must've suffered one too many blows to the head.:D

Re: Saints accused of "Bounty Program". Thoughts?
 

I guess the players could possible structure the payments as "eligible" ordinary dividends, which would be taxed at long-term capital gain tax rates, which would surely be better than prizes and award taxe rates. Other than that, they will pay taxes on the payments recieved in some fashion. With the payments most likely being very large, it's worth it for the IRS to poke their noses around.

Re: Saints accused of "Bounty Program". Thoughts?
 

I don't have a problem with bounty payments. Makes for interesting football. The problem is with the rules and shitty calls being made.

Re: Saints accused of "Bounty Program". Thoughts?
 

I will say yes and no to that one. A vicious, clean body shot is different that a targeted shot to a knee or ankle (or other body part, for that matter) or a head shot. If a guy has it in his mind that he wants to collect a bounty, then the shots he takes are going to be targeted differently, IMO. It's not as likely to be the "clean", textbook way that you are supposed to be tackling. It's going to be a shoulder or forearm to the leg. It's going to be a blindside hit that's borderline in legality. Now the result of this targeting may end up with more missed tackles.

I don't personally view it as politics run amok. I guess I'm just one of those that would rather the game be played clean, without the intent to injure. Yes, I used "intent" again. Hit them hard and clean and help them back up. There's a lot of money at stake for everyone on the field. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't want to end someone's career with something like that.

I will say that it would help the argument to whether it made a difference if we knew what players were targeted and if bountys were actually paid out. Even though I am a Vikings fan, it sure seemed like they got away with a lot of questionable hits on the old man in that title game. But we still had a chance to win, and blew it. The coach made a typical bungling move (12 men in the huddle), and called a pass play that ended up with the old man doing what he did best...end games with a critical interception.:rolleyes:

Re: Saints accused of "Bounty Program". Thoughts?
 

This is different than spy gate in many ways. In some ways it is much worse (mainly that they were trying to injure opposing players). In some ways it isn't as bad (it didn't likely change the outcome of many games, if any).

Sure, they saints have been "good" for several years, but they haven't built a dynasty on cheating.

Neither this or spy gate are acceptable.

Re: Saints accused of "Bounty Program". Thoughts?
 

I'd agree with most of this. The parts that I don't aren't pertinent to the current discussion.
It'd be interesting to see how many (if any) players suffered a season or career ending injury while playing the Saints during Greg Williams tenure. And from those, how many could be attested to a, "questionable" hit/tackle.
Yep. I mentioned Favre earlier. He was so banged up that night he could only send pictures of his legs and not his junk.:r

Re: Saints accused of "Bounty Program". Thoughts?
 

I don't believe that any of these people were going after knees ect. I am not sure there is a player in the NFL that is going to intentionally take out someone's ACL or the like, I just don't believe that.

I do believe that they went out to physically hurt them....to put them out of the game, not the next game, the game they were playing. They all know it is a livelihood, I do not believe they want to take that from someone who is part of that brotherhood. Just my opinion, but it is how I feel. If I hear someone say, sure, we were trying to blow up ankles, knees ect....I'll be convinced.

I also believe that the object of the game, for some, is to hurt other people, pure and simple. Not season ending, but game ending.

Re: Saints accused of "Bounty Program". Thoughts?
 

There were some hit that we're definately illegal. He was hit a few times way after the whistle was blown. The refs excuse after was the crowd noise was so loud they didn't know if the defensive player could hear the whistle. Since when did that matter? The saints are a dirty team. The refs let them get away with it for that playoff season.

Re: Saints accused of "Bounty Program". Thoughts?
 

I really don't see the problem. I feel like every defensive player is out to "injure" the QB of the opposite team. It's just what you want to do.

Re: Saints accused of "Bounty Program". Thoughts?
 

Seems like tackling someone with the intent of stopping the play and tackling someone with the intent to cause serious bodily harm are two different things and should be treated as such :2

Re: Saints accused of "Bounty Program". Thoughts?
 

There's two angles in this.
On the players trying to knock a guy out of the game, that's much ado about nothing. If a defensive player on my team isn't hurting guys, he isn't playing hard enough. Guys heal, and they know full well that any given play could be their last one. That's why they work so hard to be at their pinnacle, physically speaking. Football is not a sport for Dr. Spock-raised tittie-boys. It's violent. Everyone is not a winner.

The second prong is that things like this are to be kept quiet. If it's outed, now you've made the NFL brand liable. The lawyers will be swirling like buzzards over a carcass in no time flat and they'll dig every single underpaid, overhurt NFL player that ever walked a field out of bars and off their couches. This thing is going to cost the NFL millions and it has just got off the ground. You think the concussion lawsuit is huge? This lawsuit will include every scrape, nick, bruise or bump a player ever got. The repercussions are endless.

Re: Saints accused of "Bounty Program". Thoughts?
 

They STILL get called cheaters. Hell, I heard plenty of times they got to the Super Bowl this year because they cheated.
Bernard Pollard said he did, and he liked hurting Patriots players.

Re: Saints accused of "Bounty Program". Thoughts?
 

I was just thinking about how deep this "bounty" thing goes. College and High School players get a sticker on their helmet for big plays. If a kid knocks the opposing team's starting QB out of the game, you can sure bet he's gonna get a sticker. :tu

Re: Saints accused of "Bounty Program". Thoughts?
 

:confused:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...welker-injury/

Seems like he felt pretty unlucky about his situation, calling the injuries terrible and not being pleased at all about them.... I couldn't find anything on him saying he went out to intentionally injure....

Do you have any links to back up your statements?

Re: Saints accused of "Bounty Program". Thoughts?
 

Welcome to page 1, Scott....:r:r:r

Re: Saints accused of "Bounty Program". Thoughts?
 

Who's stated that they're still cheating? As an aside, their pre and post Spygate playoff records are pretty telling...:2

All that being said, I STILL don't think either of these situations (Spygate, Bountygate) is as bad as what the Broncos did when they won their two Super Bowls.

Re: Saints accused of "Bounty Program". Thoughts?
 

I was a fan of the Saints piling up the defensive stats that got them to the Super Bowl, basically. Lifetime Saints fan.
Last year and this year, we turned from an opportunistic defense into a defense that couldn't stop anybody from
doing anything. That is when I know that I no longer wanted to see Greg Williams on the Saints' coaching staff.
None of this surprises me or bothers me as long as he is gone. Player development went into the $hi++er, or as Madden
calls it, 'Player Progression'. Will Smith, can't get to the QB...linebackers can't tackle, DBs can't cover...screw that guy.

Re: Saints accused of "Bounty Program". Thoughts?
 

Big difference between gambling and cheating.

Re: Saints accused of "Bounty Program". Thoughts?
 

Lol. I was pressed for time. I usually read everything before I post, I read way faster than I type. :)
You were absolutely right, by the way!!! :D

Re: Saints accused of "Bounty Program". Thoughts?
 

I haven't searched for it online. I just heard a clip from an interview after they lost saying he's ok with it, and he's also ok with the Title of "Patriot Killer".

Edit: Link on Google. That was the 3rd result. I didn't look past it, don't really care to haha.

A lot of people that root for other teams, especially NY fans, still bring it up, saying that they're probably still cheating. I wouldn't say they aren't as good since they aren't doing it anymore. Take the D that won the 2007 SB, change it for this years, and they'd have another SB victory... Easily.

I'm not sure what they did. Fill me in?

Re: Saints accused of "Bounty Program". Thoughts?
 

So fans of other teams busting chops? No offense, but whoopity damn doo. I still hear about Favre and his vicodin addiction, and his flashing his wee-wee, etc., and those things are completely irrelevant to the Packers (and have been for some time).
Their playoff record disagrees with you, and what gives a lot of fuel to the fire as to how big of an impact it made in the Patriots winning three Super Bowls.
Ok. Except the team that won the Super Bowl in 2007 won it again this year.;)
Grossly circumvented the salary cap which directly led them to being able to put together that team that won back-to-back Super Bowls in the late 90's. If I remember correctly they were fined alomst a million dollars and forfeited a couple of draft picks.

Re: Saints accused of "Bounty Program". Thoughts?
 

You need to read what you are linking.... He said it was a clean hit, no malicious intent, Brady just happened to get hurt. In a nutshell....

“The hit on Brady,” Pollard said on Thursday. “Look, it’s football, at the end of the day guys get hurt every Sunday. I think the fact of the matter is that in this case it was Tom Brady. Nothing was intentional, nothing was malicious. When that happened, we had other guys go down that day and nothing happened.”

“I took pride because I didn’t do anything wrong,” Pollard said. “This is a game where anything can happen. I don’t care about recognition, I don’t care about being the face of the NFL, I’m just blessed to be able to do what I do.”

You don't care? So you make strong statements, refuting previous comments, but really don't care if they are true or to back them up.....:rolleyes:

I again ask you to find me something that says that Mr. Pollard or any other NFL play states that they are going out trying to blow up knees, ankles, ruin careers/seasons. Guys lose a season to a knee regularly, but I cannot think of a hit on a season ending play that I thought was overtly malicious or dirty.


...and just to be clear, to be okay with doing your job and having someone get a season ending injury, doesn't mean that you went out to intentionally injure/maim. It doesn't mean that you are okay with dirty plays that result in season ending injuries. It doesn't mean that you are going out trying to end guys seasons/careers.

A player can be fine with the result of a clean hit, even if it ends with an injury. Hell, these guys will be living with a lot of regret if they have to worry about every time someone gets hurt. One more time....

My statement -

Your response, quoting my post -