House broken into yesterday.. home defense help needed
 

Hey all,

I've been at a bit of a loss for the past few days and was hoping that someone could shed some light on the subject.

My house was broken into yesterday. As I am out of town for the holiday, I have only had my house-sitter and the police to give me an initial report. It looks like nothing was stolen and the culprits were probably looking for the previous (very rich) occupants belongings. In any case, I have been debating the idea of a first firearm for a while now and believe that it's time. My girlfriend is moving in in May and I would like to get this squared away before she comes.

I went to a shooting range with some friends today and tried out a few basic shotguns including a Mossberg 500 pistol grip. While the gun is probably not the best for target shooting, it seems like it would make a great first gun with my intentions. I plan to get a bit more involved in the firearms scene and would like to purchase a 9mm in the future. But, as a newbie I think a shotgun would make the most sense. Any advice? Should I purchase a bedside safe? Those of you who leave home defense weapons by the bed, how do you store them? I appreciate any and all wisdom. Thanks guys. This is an important issue to me.

Re: House broken into yesterday.. home defense help needed
 

why not pick up a mossberg 500 or rem 870 with a stock vs a pistol grip. You can get them with the 18.5" barrels. That would do HD duty well. Personally with no kids in the house, i would leave they gun propped against the wall by the bed or behind the door. my :2

Re: House broken into yesterday.. home defense help needed
 

I grew up around guns. I have guns. I shoot guns. I write for a gun magazine, but I gotta ask, don't you think they would have stolen your gun if you had one?

That being said, take a class. Than take another one

Re: House broken into yesterday.. home defense help needed
 

Sucks about the house, on the gun topic a Shotgun is a great home defense weapon but you must be at home to defend it, if it's not locked up when you're not at home bad guy has a new gun. Any kids in the home? I leave my gun(s) in my nightstand at night and on my person when not at home.

Re: House broken into yesterday.. home defense help needed
 

Got both :tu, great choices.

I like the 870 better out of the two

Re: House broken into yesterday.. home defense help needed
 

Sorry to hear about the break in. Having a gun for protection in the house can be a catch 22.

Re: House broken into yesterday.. home defense help needed
 

@emopunker, thanks for the advice. I was looking at a stock mossberg 500, but was advised that the pistol grip would be a bit easier for storage reasons (I guess because of size?). Like I said, absolute newbie here, does this sound like a trivial quality? Thanks again brother.

@ysr, I was thinking about taking a multi-session class. Unfortunately, with my work schedule in the new quarter it looks like it will be a few months until I can find the time to fit it in. I saw some advertisements for 1 on 1 lessons though and will be investing in some! I'm a bit confused as to your comment regarding, "don't you think they would have stolen your gun?". IMO it's missing the point. When I travel for extended periods of time I lock my valuables (watches, cash) in a safety deposit box. The break-in happened early in the morning, roughly between 5-10 AM while my house-sitter was at work. I need to feel safe with my loved one sleeping beside me.

Re: House broken into yesterday.. home defense help needed
 

Considering obtaining a gun because of a Break-in while you're not at home is like saying you had a house fire while you were away and wanting to buy a fire extinguisher.

I'm not going to discourage you from purchasing a home protection weapon, but I think you may be better served by calling brinks home security or adt or something like that.

Re: House broken into yesterday.. home defense help needed
 

Thanks @ninja, you make a good point. I'm trying not to dwell in the immediate fear of another break-in. But this is something that I have been considering for some time. I recently moved into my first house. It's not in what I would consider a "bad" area, but it's more prone to crime than my past residences. If the house was completely unoccupied during this time it would be one thing. But during my absence there has been someone in my bed every night. They have also been driving my car. Unless someone was paying very close attention I think it would appear that the house was occupied as usual. I appreciate your input!!

EDIT: I also want to add this, they ****ed up one of my dogs and locked both of them in the bathroom.

Re: House broken into yesterday.. home defense help needed
 

Personally i think a gun for HD is a good idea. If you are not home lock it up for sure. As a side note, if storage is that much of an issue maybe you should consider a handgun, maybe a .45 my :2 again :D

Re: House broken into yesterday.. home defense help needed
 

The right training, along with the right weapon, is good when you're home, but, a good home security system is an optimal way to go in my opinion.

1. Home security system
2. Home safe
3. Weapon and training, then practice, practice, practice.

Re: House broken into yesterday.. home defense help needed
 

speaking of training. if you got a handgun you could always take up IDPA as a hobby. At the very lease you'd get some SD based target practice and have some fun.

Re: House broken into yesterday.. home defense help needed
 

Or they know your house sitter.

Re: House broken into yesterday.. home defense help needed
 

Good point

Re: House broken into yesterday.. home defense help needed
 

This doesnt sound like a "break-in". Looks like someone was taking advantage of he fact that you were gone. Why would they "use" your car and then bring it back? Why would someone sleep in your bed without knowing when you return? That's just ridiculous. Your house would be stripped bare even if there were no "valuables" I would be looking for a new house sitter. :2

Re: House broken into yesterday.. home defense help needed
 

I think he means his house sitter was doing this for him in his absence to seem as if there was nothing out of the ordinary. I could be reading this wrong though.:2

Re: House broken into yesterday.. home defense help needed
 

Ahh, that could be. Thanks Jay. Still seems a bit unusual that the break-in occurred during the small window where someone was gone. Seems like a security system with cameras would be a good investment.

Re: House broken into yesterday.. home defense help needed
 

I got robbed two years ago. They even stole some humidors:mad:. The police chief told me that every robbery in town was in homes with no alarm systems. I got one installed pretty quick. One neighbor was the last to have no alarm system until they got robbed too. IMHO if I was a robber I'd rob the unalarmed homes and forget about those with security systems.
Best of luck deciding whether to get a gun or not. I thought about it after getting robbed but I knew I shouldn't have one as I love to drink too much.:)

Re: House broken into yesterday.. home defense help needed
 

i vote system and gun. guns are like cigars: you can never have too many :D

Re: House broken into yesterday.. home defense help needed
 

+1. I would go with the Remington 870. Buy some of the Federal Law Enforcement 00 buckshot shells to put in the gun. http://www.policehq.com/Products/FC-132LE

Re: House broken into yesterday.. home defense help needed
 

If you are away, having guns is not going to help you. Do you travel often? Not saying you should not have one, but they do come with risk and would not have helped you in your previous break-in.

Security system is good. Especially with cameras. I would install some mock cameras in addition to the real ones. Big dog if you are able to have one. Burglars think twice about breaking into a house with Doberman or German Shepard barking at them.

Re: House broken into yesterday.. home defense help needed
 

I vote staying away from ADT or Brinks (as ADT owns Brinks now).

I can put you in contact with some decent companies in your area if you are looking for a security system (i have worked in the industry for 15 years now all over the world).

I have a security system and multiple weapons in the house.

Re: House broken into yesterday.. home defense help needed
 

I keep a couple of loaded guns around the house for home defense. Should somebody break in while I'm home, they will have an interesting day. If I'm not home, of course they can steal the weapons should they find them. But that's not the point - they're for personal defense when I am home. And we don't have kids in the house. If we ever did, the guns would be secured.

As far as types of guns, a shotgun is great. The sound of racking one into the chamber alone can be pretty intimidating, and a shotgun with an 18 inch barrel is fairly easy to wield, has a good spread, and won't penetrate too far so you don't have to worry about hitting your neighbor two doors down. I personally prefer revolvers, but keep a scatter gun as well.

Gun ownership obviously comes with responsibilities. They are tools one must learn to use safely. And your girlfriend should take a class as well, if she's willing. Doesn't help her much if she ever needed to protect herself, has a gun available, but doesn't know how to use it.

Re: House broken into yesterday.. home defense help needed
 

I agree with the shotgun, been a LEO for 17 yrs and any advice for HD would be a shotgun loaded with turkey shot. Reason. Bullets go through walls and I am a family man, someone comes through the door you fire off several rounds and those rounds travel through walls and end up hitting your kid sleeping in the bedroom. Turkey shot you hit the person they will fall but if you miss the shot won't travel through a wall. Plus shotguns make a universal sound when you rack a round in them. Anyone standing behind the door hear the sound of a round being racked into action they will know whats coming next.

Re: House broken into yesterday.. home defense help needed
 

You're in luck today!

http://www.woot.com/

Re: House broken into yesterday.. home defense help needed
 

My :2
Alarm the house if you will leave it unattended for long periods of time, if you can attend the residence sooner, get a four legged alarm. I have four noisy terriers, well three noisy terriers and one quiet biter:r
My home usuallly has someone home all the time so the dogs work well.
When we are out, they run free in the house. They announce anyone setting foot on the property or even stopping on the front sidewalk.:r
A firearm is good if you are home and can get to it soon enough to use it.
Here we need to secure firearms to reduclious standards, making home defense a joke :rolleyes:
As for your valuables, buy a safe that is secured to the floor, not easliy picked up and taken.
Walk around the residence with a video recorder and keep the tape and a inventory list offsite, mine is in the safty deposit box. It makes insurance claims less stressful.

Re: House broken into yesterday.. home defense help needed
 

what about an alarm?

Re: House broken into yesterday.. home defense help needed
 

How's your dog? That's not cool that they did that :( Was your house sitter at home at the time of the break in?

Sorry to hear about this dude, no opinions as far as what gun to buy, but I don't blame you for wanting one!

Re: House broken into yesterday.. home defense help needed
 

mossberg 590 A1
beretta 1201 FP
FNH SLP

Re: House broken into yesterday.. home defense help needed
 

I don't know about your state but here in Mass you can not protect property with a firearm, your life you can blow the bastage away no problem.
Get a dog burglars want no part of a dog.

Re: House broken into yesterday.. home defense help needed
 

Landmines.

Re: House broken into yesterday.. home defense help needed
 

Costco has an awesome camera that can be linked to your smart phone. It can pan and zoom and it can be set with a motion detector. It's also a stand alone unit that can be moved and hidden easily.

Re: House broken into yesterday.. home defense help needed
 

That is too bad, what kind of dogs?

I'll take 2 of these please....:tu http://www.familydobes.com/

Re: House broken into yesterday.. home defense help needed
 

Woot has a Zmodo 8 Channel Surveillance System with 8 Weatherproof IR Cameras for $169.99 plus shipping...

Re: House broken into yesterday.. home defense help needed
 

I love handguns, but not for home defense. Here's my "defense in depth" plan.

Solid alarm system for all exterior doors (including the one to the garage) and first floor windows. If you have a basement and someone can slide in through a window there, bar it or alarm it.

Timers. Lights on timers are cheap and easy way to convince the bad guys to go someplace else. I replaced the light switch for the outside lights with a timer that knows when sundown is and the lights automatically come on just before sundown and off in a +- 15 minute window around midnight. Cheap at home depot. I have several lights on timers in the house that add to the "I am now going to bed" effect by going out about the same time. When we are out of town, we put a timer on a floor lamp in the bedroom with multiple settings to mimic going in and out of the bedroom at night.

Aluminum baseball bat. I have a good sized house (around 3K sq ft) but the shot lines suck. It is far easier for me to get close with a bat and their hit legs or their head than it is to find a clear shot that doesn't risk harm to my family or neighbors. Yeah, I know, what about multiple robbers. Well, how do you know that the other one isn't armed and aiming at you?

Wireless/cellular phones within reach. It is amazing how fast most police departments will arrive if you state that you have an armed intruder in your house. Honestly, officer, the fact that they broke in made me believe that they were armed.

Escape plans. Just like for a fire, know how to get out of your house in case someone breaks in. Never defend your home to your last breath. Things aren't worth it. Never underestimate the convenience of having a big window and a small chair plus a blanket in a room furthest from the front door. Chair through window, blanket over any broken glass, climb to safety. If they came to steal things, they aren't going to chase you around the neighborhood.

Re: House broken into yesterday.. home defense help needed
 

Some good tips!

In MA, you are not allowed to defend yourself, so running away is all you can do. Even if a bad guy is harming your family, you do not have the right to stop them with force. Crazy, but that's the way it is here.

Personally, I'd rather go to jail then see harm done to my family, so I would not think twice about using force in my home.

There's a big court case in MA about a guy who was defending himself when a burglar tried to break into his pick up in his driveway. He went to see what was happening and subdued the armed burglar until police came. The DA is charging this guy with assault,etc... and will most likely go to prison while the armed burglar will get off with light sentence.

Re: House broken into yesterday.. home defense help needed
 

Thanks to everyone who has provided their insight. I knew I could count on the CA brothers. I will certainly be investing in an alarm system. The police pointed it out immediately (with a bit of a "what the hell are you doing without an alarm?" attitude).

The break-in occurred between 5-10 AM. My house-sitter was at work, but it was not his routine schedule. He usually works 9-5. This was on xmas day and he was just finishing up some stuff before taking vacation time. In other words, on any other day he could have been in the house during the break-in (had it been premeditated). I am willing to assume that they saw that the car was gone before deciding to make a move though.

No kids in the house. But my girlfriend is on-board with taking HD classes.

My dogs are not the most intimidating, 2 Schnauzers. But they do bark up a storm when someone comes near the property. The one that got her butt kicked is the protective one. She WILL bite if she is threatened. I am assuming that is what happened. Here is a pic of her: http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/...n/IMAG0001.jpg

Re: House broken into yesterday.. home defense help needed
 

I'm sorry to hear about the news, bro! I hope all is well and will get better soon.

Re: House broken into yesterday.. home defense help needed
 

That is one cute dog!

Re: House broken into yesterday.. home defense help needed
 

As far as self defense guns to have in your home there as many opinions as guns but here is a little something to consider. What are the interior and exterior walls of your home made of? If they are like most sheet rock interior and sheet rock/sheeting and siding exterior a 9mm full metal jacket bullet will penetrate up to 11 walls, you don't know where that bullet is going to stop. OO buck is only a little better but again those little balls are going to go through a number of walls and the people between them. For the safety of those in other rooms and outside your home one of the safest options is an AR-15 with hollow point bullets. These will be absolutely lethal to anyone in the direct path but these super soft bullets will self destruct on contact with a solid object like a sheet rock wall, tested by the FBI. A short barreled model with a collapsible stock is quick handling and gives a great sense of security. As a bonus they are great fun to take out and shoot for pleasure as well which you make you a lot more proficient and confidant.

Re: House broken into yesterday.. home defense help needed
 

That description sounds more like the frangible rounds than hollow points. :2

Re: House broken into yesterday.. home defense help needed
 

Hope your dog's injuries weren't too serious and has a quick recovery! :tu

Seriously, if anybody broke into my house and hurt my dogs I'd kick their ass not because they stole my stuff, but hurt my dogs. That's just low :(

Re: House broken into yesterday.. home defense help needed
 

Wow, that is absolutely crazy. Here in Ohio we have the Castle Doctrine :D If someone breaks into your house, they are fair game. I would hope that a burglar would think twice about breaking in, but meth heads don't think clearly.

Re: House broken into yesterday.. home defense help needed
 

Remington 870 or Mossberg 500, 12-guage pump action shotgun. Short barrel if desired, but I wouldn't get a pistol grip. Should be $300-350 max. I wouldn't go with 00 buck for penetration reasons. Most any game load will be suffficient for stopping a bad guy without the overpenetration concerns. They are cheaper too, about $7 for a box of 25.

When you're not home, get an alarm with cellphone capabilities. At times burglers will cut old landlines to disable alarms ability to notify authorities. If you really want to get your geek on, buy a cheap desktop PC UPS (uninterupptible power supply) aka battery backup that can keep the alarm running for a 20-30 minutes after a power outage. Just in case they cut the power.

Timed lights are also a good idea for deterrent, although so are some cheap ADT/Brinks window stickers or lawn signs.

Re: House broken into yesterday.. home defense help needed
 

I think shotguns are good home defense weapons. AR15 is overkill and you absolutely cannot use normal .223 rounds without fear of killing the kid next door. The ones that were mentioned that shattered sound like they could be safe, but do your due diligence. The biggest advantage would be the magazine capacity. Personally, my experience with AR15 is that they are not reliable enough, but I have also had very limited experience with them. I owned a RRA m4 and had several jamming issues. They seem to be finicky with certain types of ammo, or at least mine was. 30 rounds will do you no good if you have to clear a jam in close quarters. I'm sure I'll get some flak for saying that, but in my experience, an AR15 wouldn't be a good choice for someone new to firearms.

870's have almost no issues and they are much safer in populated areas.

On another note, for those recommending home alarm systems -- Do you need the monitoring service too, or is the alarm alone sufficient?

Re: House broken into yesterday.. home defense help needed
 

If you are going with just the one gun I recommend something like www.shotlock.com Great for inside a closet or even a bed frame.

Another way to go is one of these behind the door or again in the closet. Easy to install. Sized to fit in between standard studs. There are other makers that are similar. Just cut into the drywall for the right height and screws are installed inside the safe into the studs.

There is very little advantage to a pistol grip if any and a lot of disadvantages.

Re: House broken into yesterday.. home defense help needed
 

I love my guns but my kid more, so I am very careful.

My pistol sits in a gun safe on my nightstand that can be opened with a couple pushes.

I have a homemade shotgun rack behind my entertainment center in my bedroom, a two way alarm system, and a barking dog who knows if anyone is near my house.

I've had a long talk with my daughter about guns and she knows what their purpose and dangers are.

I agree on shotguns for hd, and keep mine loaded with turkey shot as my house is a split plan, and overpenetration and having no neighbors to brag to about the bad guy I shot concerns me. (thus my reluctance to use 00 buck)

I've heard the story a million times about bird shot being for the birds, but after shooting drywall and filled milk jugs up close with birdshot, I am quite confident.

As far as alarms, where I live, the cops won't respond immediately to an alarm, but with 2 way monitoring, they guarantee a 45 second response time and someone is on the speaker in your living room asking for a password and is able to dispatch police quickly.

My wife is a little paranoid that they can listen in on us, but I'm not. ( I think...)

Re: House broken into yesterday.. home defense help needed
 

This.

Better to be tried by twelve than to be carried by six.

Re: House broken into yesterday.. home defense help needed
 

Just hire Tom to sit at your house for a few day. When they see that D-Bag sitting there they may think twice!!!!

Re: House broken into yesterday.. home defense help needed
 

Sounds like you've covered all the basics, but I can offer a few more for you. Don't just go with a perimeter alarm. Make sure your system supports motion detector coverage, and use it on the portion of the house that's not occupied at night.

Get some big floodlights installed on the major corners or covered areas of your house, and equip them with motion detectors for nighttime. There's a lot to say about deterrence when the whole area is lit like daytime.

Guns are fine, but take a moment to sit down with your GF and discuss the plan of action for if and when. Know what you both will do the instant you discover intruders in your home. Personally, while I have Castle Doctrine backing me in LA, I would rather not try to take on an armed intruder unless I absolutely had an advantage. Know what your immediate escape routes and planned meeting points are to get you away in case the intruder(s) have guns themselves. To twist Tom's words around a bit, I'd rather run from a few guns than be buried by many friends.

Also, contact an electrician, you can see about getting your major interior lights wired to a master switch in the bedroom (or to the alarm itself in some cases). Immediate lighting in the house is another good deterrent for intruders. Most don't want to be seen clearly. A good home DVR never hurts, and it doesn't take an expensive one to provide a good picture of what happens in the event of a break-in (and what things are taken).