Beer Prices v. Wine Prices
 

So I'm standing in my beer b&m last night eyeballing another sixer of North Coast Old Stock Ale with a little voice in my head whispering......$14.00 is a lot to pay for a six pack of beer.

Operating from the premise that one six pack of beer is the equivalent of one bottle of wine, at least in terms of AB/ABW, etc.

And I'm thinking. Is it? Is it really? If you haven't had the pleasure, Old Stock Ale is 12.5% alcohol ABV , and INCREDIBLY complex. This is one fantastic ale. And at 12.5% alcohol, one beer is the equivalent of 3 regular beers (or regular glasses of wine) , eg. Bud or Miller. And ads notwithstanding, it really does TASTE GREAT:r

Even if it was a regular alcohol level, I guess I still wouldn't understand. 14.00 bucks for an outstanding beer, one of the best in it's class, vs. 14.00 for wine. what is 14.00 for wine going to get you?

The point I'm trying to make is that you can buy unbelievably fantastic beer for starting around the $9.00 a sixer range and going up, but most people, absent beerophiles, balk at that, yet will willingly spend $25.00 on a low end, middle of the road bottle of wine. I dont' get it. Is it the snobbery? That beer is "low class"? What is it?

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I see beer and wine the same as I see cigars. Its all relevant to the taster. There are no low class cigars beer or wine because there are always those who possess the pallet of a goat and actually think these things taste good. Gurkha, Miller, and box wine will always hold a place in this world because of these people.

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It all comes down to personal preferences and how you justify the purchase cost to yourself. When looking at beer vs wine, wine will almost always be more expensive than a beer of similar quality level simply because the production costs are typically higher. I think you're right that there's a certain degree of snob factor as well since many people also regard beer as more of a kids drink (high school and frat party's, etc) and wine as more of a grown ups drink which you move into as your self perceived level of sophistication and financial ability increases overtime.

I think it's also because people see some things (ie. beer) as cheap, others as "inexpensive" for their perceived value (ie. wine) and still others as "expensive" when they haven't actually sat down and worked out the relative values. I had a similar discussion a couple weeks back with a couple of boys at work. We'd gone out for Friday lunch and since we were close to one of the Signature BCLC liquor stores I asked them to stop in so I could pick up a bottle of malt (Glenfarclas 17yr: $100).

On the way back they couldn't get over, or let go of, the fact that I'd just paid $100 for a bottle of whisky. These are all guys who enjoy the occasional whisky or rum but tend only to buy cheap blends like Johnny Walker or maybe step up to an entry level malt like Glenfiddich 12yr for special occasions because of the "sticker shock" associated with higher end bottles of malt. However these are also guys who will go out to a bar for a hockey game, or whatever, and order bland tasting beers like Molson Canadian (basically the same as Budweiser or any other generic mass produced cheap beer) for $5 - $6 pint all night and think nothing of that cost.

The way I pointed it out to them was that if I take that $100 bottle and pour measured drinks out of it I'll get 24 or 25 drinks per bottle which means it works out to roughly $4/drink for a hand crafted well aged premium spirit versus their $5 - $6 generic no flavour beer. Plus, since I've no desire to get drunk on scotch, that bottle will last weeks or months whereas a beer or bottle of wine must be consumed in one sitting. By that logic the $100 bottle of scotch is a far better value than even the cheapest pub beer which no one thinks twice about buying.

The funny thing was 2 of the 3 guys I was out for lunch with that day all went back to the liquor store over the weekend and invested in bottles of good malt or rum because they recognized that it wasn't unaffordable as long as they looked pass the initial purchase outlay and realized the true cost of the bottle over it's lifespan.

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I like a decent beer, but 14 bucks? The only time I'll drink Bud is when somebody hands me one, but can that ale actually be 3 times better? You'd have to prove it to me.

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I'll pay $12 for a bomber with the same logic as mithril uses, i'd spend more than that at the bar drinking beers I don't like.

However, I feel like part of the fun in wine, beers, and cigars is finding the excellent items that aren't necessarily priced as high as they might be worth. You don't have to spend $50 bucks on a bottle of wine to get a great one, you just may get a lot more duds at $14.

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:tpd: As with most things in life it comes down to personal preference. Personally I like beer, and I love brewing my own batch which usually ends up being significantly cheaper and similar quality as "high end" brews go. You can also tailor your own brew to exactly what you like. With that being said, I would never turn down a good Merlot. Which, using circular logic, brings us back to the inevitable point of personal preference.
:2

Re: Beer Prices v. Wine Prices
 

This is a bit over-simplified and really hard to compare in terms of cost per percent of alcohol. Drinking a fine beer and a fine bottle of wine are two totally different animals.

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But Vic ended his question by comparing high end beer and a low/middle end bottle of wine, not simply cost versus alcohol content. I saw a lot of validity in his post.

Re: Beer Prices v. Wine Prices
 

You will enjoy the higher end beer more then the low end wine.

100 X better. Bud is made with Adjuncts.

Bud is like a Cremosa and a high end Craft Beer is like a Cuban Cigar...

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OK, I agree with the first statement and also posted same thought before. I'd rather drink good beer than cheap wine (although there are some great cheap wines if one knows the market and knows what to buy).

But I do disagree with the second. I cannot imagine any beer to be as bad as Cremosa (is to cigars). Also, once again, taste is subjective, not objective. Some people simply don't like high end Belgian beers/ales, and some people don't like Cohibas no matter the "status" nor high price (exclusivity).

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I disagree with this statement, Greg, and offer any Anheuser-Busch product as evidence. ;) :r

Re: Beer Prices v. Wine Prices
 

Natty light, Pabst, Genny Cream Ale, Sam Adams Cranberry Lambic, etc. Think i'd rather smoke a Cremosa than drink any of those :r

Re: Beer Prices v. Wine Prices
 

:tpd:

A beer like the OP mentions, NC Old Stock Ale, is made with the best ingredients by people who really care about making fine beer. If the term "handmade" or "artisnal" can be used to describe beer, these types of beers fit that description. Bud, Miller, Coors, etc are the "red wine plonk" of the beer world, factory-made with the cheapest ingredients and by the cheapest production methods. I want the methods by which my beer is made to be determined by a master brewer, not by an accountant.

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Beer to many is just a simple beverage, refreshing and common; too filling as the old world saying goes "liquid bread".

Most people I know who are not "serious beer" fans find beer just too filling and get old after 2. Wine can be drunk bottle after bottle.

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Can't argue that point....I guess I would put myself in the serious fan category though.

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Honestly I think a lot of it is snobbery.

Cheap wine, expensive wine, whatever. I think it's the fact that a bottle of wine is often associated with a higher class beverage, like a nice scotch. If you look at television and movies (I know you're saying to yourself "don't believe everything you see on t.v. dummy Darrell) you will see that wine is always portrayed in the limelight as a beverage for the rich folks, the classy folks, etc.

Beer on the other hand be it Stone, Bear Republic, Rogue, Pabst, Natural Ice, etc. It's portrayed as the blue collar working mans drink. A guy comes home in his grubby clothes and sits down for a beer, to a lot of people beer is just beer, they don't look for the unique flavors that some of us know it has to offer, they just see that dirty guy sitting in his greasy clothes swilling a Budweiser. He's not sitting there in a 3 piece suit with a pocket watch, turning his pinky up.

As I said, a lot of it comes down to snobbery. Society has been led to believe that wine = money and status and beer = dirty working man piss water.

:2

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Exactly.

MOses, I'm not talking cost per percent of alcohol, per se. And why are drinking a fine beer and a fine wine different animals? or from a nice bottle of single malt for that matter? At the end of the day when I sit down with a drink I'm not 15, i'm not doing it to get blasted, i'm doing it to enjoy the flavors, same as with a cigar. Trust me, you wouldn't want to drink more than one Old Stock Ale, because you would be on your ass if you did. It might take a hour to drink that one beer, that's how intense some "Big" beers can be. It's about the experience, not the alcohol.

I won't get into specific beers because Tom and VS have done so so ably.:r

But high end beers arent' just Belgian beers. Name the style and some craft brewer, probably here in the U.S., is making it. Belgian beers are a very, very small percentage of this.

What I'm trying to get across, pretty feebly, is my confusion at the objection to paying for great beer while people will pay more for crappy wine.

And I just don't get it.

Re: Beer Prices v. Wine Prices
 

I think Darrell is on the right track, Vic. I think alot people think it's more sophisticated to drink wine, even crap wine, as opposed to beer. It makes them feel superior.

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I do feel that beer gets the nose turned up towards it.

Give me two or three well crafted beers and a couple cigars and some great friends and I'll feel like a king.

I enjoy a good beer myself and like Vic said I don't buy it to get blasted. Every now and again I'll grab a six pack or two and add it to my stock. There is a huge difference between the water beers like miller, pbr, coors etc. and high quality micro brew. You will notice a big difference in taste and flavor.


I'm not a hater of miller, pbr or other pilsner beers. They work well in a huge pot with some onions so soak brats in. :tu

Re: Beer Prices v. Wine Prices
 

my butt itches.
In the usual spots...:rolleyes:

Re: Beer Prices v. Wine Prices
 

It certainly does.

Beer is more of an "out of the house" beverage to down with your buddies at the pub.

There are plenty of event beers that are worthy of special praise, but 100's of years of beer culture have cemented its place in alcohol hierarchy.

I had a few beers with a Vegas Robaina custom rolled in my back yard; shorts baseball hat and sun. It was sublime. Would I have enjoyed it as much with Champagne? No way. Would I want to drink beers at more formal setting with a dinner jacket? No at all.

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Tell you what. Go to CA Central Valley and open a bar/liquor store without any Bud beer, see how long you'll last (only as long as your bank account keeps you afloat). Someone on top of the thread mentioned "snobbishness factor" of wine drinkers and yet some posts underscore exactly how beer drinkers are more snobbish than wine drinkers. Bud is still the best selling beer in USA last time I checked and whether you or I like it or not, there is obviously an ungodly number of Bud customers out there (how many people do you know who smoke Cremosas?)

I am not saying Bud is great, but it is easily DRINKABLE (although we seem to disagree on this point). Something I won't say about a good number of wines and a good number of cigars (my Cremosa experiment lasted less than an inch, I honestly tried, and I was ready to vomit by then).

If anything, you do have so called "grape snobbishness" with wine drinkers, many who drink Cab won't ever touch anything else, many who drink Pinot Noir won't drink anything else, many who drink Burgundy (Pinot Noir grown in France) won't ever drink Pinot grown outside of Burgundy, etc, etc, etc. But I know few wine drinkers who won't also drink beer.
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Darrell,

Interesting points about movies and wine. I can only say that you keep forgetting who comes up with these scripts in the first place, the so called "intellectual elite" (the rest of us are treated and taken as simpletons who can't ever come up with a thought of our own). Winemakers have a saying, "It takes a lot of beer to make wine", and this is a true statement, I can assure you of that. During crush all the refrigerators are stuffed with beer.

And you really don't want to know true stories about these self appointed Hollywood wine aficionados. I dread every time I have to pour at some of their events, my wife wanted to choke a few (literally) on some occasions. Only about 2% of them would be able to tell a 2BC and Screaming Eagle apart and they are mostly driven by price and points.

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See, I am the opposite. After our monthly stated meeting a group of Brothers always go out in our suits to a spot and have drinks. Most of them have Scotch and cocktails. I almost always order beer, typically a nice pint of something off the tap and I am happy as a clam.

I don't feel like drinking beer dressed up is any different than drinking scotch or wine. It's just like cigars, drink what you like and like what you drink.

Of course, that's my :2.

Re: Beer Prices v. Wine Prices
 

While there are some really bad beers out there, I do see the point you are making. Cigars like Cremosa should not be on the market, I can't think of any BEER that is quite as bad as a Cremosa. Budwesier = Macanudo, most consistant and highest selling in it's class, but very "plain". Natty Ice = Puros Indios. And so on.

The closest I can think of to a Cremosa for a something based on barley, malt, hops and yeast is some of the bad malt liquors like Earthquake or Pit Bull. They are just plain nasty. Go to one of the "40oz Malt Liquor" forums and even those guys bag on that crap. But, malt liquor has a bad rap to begin with, and from even a semi-purist standpoint, it's NOT beer.

(sorry Sancho)

Re: Beer Prices v. Wine Prices
 

Not sure why you seem to think that I only place Belgian beer in the high end territory, this was just an example of something I may enjoy while someone else may find unpalatable. Same with that Cohiba used as an example of "great cigar" someone posted above. All I can tell you is that I gave up on them BEFORE MOST of this board even started smoking cigars.

What I tried to point out and something that was quickly swept under the rug is TASTE PREFERENCE is ALWAYS SUBJECTIVE and NEVER OBJECTIVE.

Same way it was pointed out that some would rather smoke a Cremosa than drink Pabst (one example). I say, get off those drugs, but then again, it is MY taste preference and it is SUBJECTIVE.

Since you keep making points about "crappy wine", can you at least state what you consider a great wine?

Re: Beer Prices v. Wine Prices
 

With beer, wine and cigars there are varying levels of participation and commitment.

Jug wine, Budweiser, Macanudo cigars appeal to the masses. There is a reason these are all top sellers in their categories. Their flavor may not appeal to the afficionado but they were not designed for that market

Mid-level wines, Premium beer, $5-10 cigars appeal to those who want a bit more from the product than entry level.

High end wines($100 and up), craft beer and premium cigars are directed towards a very limited market. Not knowing the numbers I would guess less than 15% of market share in any of the three categories.

Of course there are wines, beers and cigars that can crossover between market but for the most part they are meant to sell to a certain consumer.

Snobs are found at each level. Snobbery is not class exclusive.

Re: Beer Prices v. Wine Prices
 

You mean USA.

Re: Beer Prices v. Wine Prices
 

Great post and a great point.

Just to underscore it, are posters on this board who make it a point of saying they "only smoke CCs" snobs? Or do they simply smoke what they like?

Re: Beer Prices v. Wine Prices
 

Their are some of both on this board.

Re: Beer Prices v. Wine Prices
 

It's easy to justify the cost of anything you like, want, and enjoy so I really don't think it's an issue of beer vs. wine class-wise or anything else...sometimes I want a glass of wine, sometimes a beer, and sometime hard liquor...it's whatever you're in the mood for...unless you drink that cheap-a$$ bitter Budweiser (like Marie's sister-in-law who does a 6-pack a day), then it's class http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-...ingoutloud.gif...

Re: Beer Prices v. Wine Prices
 

14 bucks for a 6 pack of world class beer - you can get a nice bottle of wine for 14 bucks, but it won't be world class.

Re: Beer Prices v. Wine Prices
 

Smoke what you like and drink what you like.

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what exactly is "world class"? and who gets to decide that ?:confused:

Re: Beer Prices v. Wine Prices
 

This post gets it

This post doesn't:D


My question has nothing to do with drinking what you like and liking what you drink, it has to do with why people are so heisitant to pay for great beer, but have no problem with paying far more money for wine.

If people truly enjoy drinking beers like Bud, they should by all means drink them. It just leaves more of the hard to find craft beers for the rest of us, :banger

Re: Beer Prices v. Wine Prices
 

Vic, I do not agree with your "This post doesn't" POV. Same way you framed the question of "why not..." I can also ask, Why do cigar smokers, in general, have no issue paying $15-20 PER CIGAR (and more in some cases) when they will also tell you that spending that same sum on a bottle of wine is stupid?

Since taste is subjective (and there is no argument on this point, just let me know what you think of cow tongue aspic), why do you simply assume that what is great beer to you simply MUST be great beer for everyone else? Isn't this snobbish and elitist point of view, the point of contention in your original post?

You still didn't answer my question as to what is a great bottle of wine to YOU?

Re: Beer Prices v. Wine Prices
 

mmmmm cow tongue aspic....

Can I get that on dark rye with coarse brown mustard and sliced tomatoes and extra pickles on the side?

Re: Beer Prices v. Wine Prices
 

I humbly apologize for comparing Anheuser-Busch products to Cremosas. Obviously Budweiser is a huge seller, and appeals to a huge market. I might opine it appeals to people who enjoy the taste of goat urine, but that is not the point. :)

Honestly, I get the point you are making, and while I don't necessarily agree, I do see where you are coming from Greg,

Re: Beer Prices v. Wine Prices
 

My point, exactly, Sir.


I wonder if the OP would agree with you and me on this, I actually bet most here would consider this inedible. So, by the OP's definition, we must be food snobs? Or wait, maybe he is since this is not world class food?

I am really disappointed that someone could make an accusation of "snobbery" while displaying all the signs of it himself. Have no idea how subjective taste is all of a sudden equated to objective (if HE likes it, then it MUST be world class). I just don't get this "logic".

TASTE PREFERENCE IS SUBJECTIVE

Re: Beer Prices v. Wine Prices
 

I absolutely agree that taste is subjective in every sense, but I still don't think that the point Vic is trying to make in the OP s what is now being debated.

The question is why would someone hesitate to spend $14 on a high end 6-pack of beer but gladly shell that out for a low end bottle of wine?

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This thread is so out of control lol. I'll add my :2

I love wine and I love beer, I go to wine festivals and I go to beer festivals, and I have a wine rack full of Virginia wines and a fridge full of beer. I don't think I own a bottle of wine right now that cost more than $25, but I have sampled everything I have at Virginia wineries and bought ones that I like.

It's a very simple answer for me about why I buy the wine, I enjoy it. Beer and wine are different after all and I drink whatever I'm in the mood for. I think that is justification enough, people do it because they like the taste/experience.

A side note here, being a cheaply priced wine doesn't mean it's bad....though I will say it is easier for me to find something cheap that I like if I go to different wineries and sample rather than buying something blind off the shelf.

If your interested, the weirdest bottle of wine I own had Jalapenos put in the barrel while fermenting, it definitely picked up the flavor. I don't know if I will ever drink it, but if the mood strikes.....:su . And no I usually don't go for the gimmicky wines, I like more traditional blends, but I couldn't pass that up.

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Barry, I didn't mean to imply that there aren't good bottles of wine that are inexpensive...I just used the context to try to clarify Vic's original question. I have had lots of great wine for under $20 a bottle as well.

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I realize it was a clarification of the question, I quoted you since you were the easiest to get to :D .... or should I say that I quoted you because your clarification was concise and to the point :tu

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Aw, shucks. :)

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Because beer is viewed as a lower cost beverage, and generally speaking, it is. Cost and availability of ingredients and production is totally different for beer versus wine.

Ultimately, it's apples and oranges, it's really not a fair comparison. To compare a $14 6-pack of high-end beer to wine, one needs to find the appropriate comparison point, which, honestly, I'm not sure where that is, probably around $35-40 even 50, maybe as high as $60 or 70.

Not to say that there aren't some great $14 wines, but there are also some great $6-7 beers out there. And some bad $14 beers and some absolute crap wines for $14. Cost is not always a determining factor, but unfortunately, for a lot of public perception, price is sometimes wrongly equated to quality.

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Yup.

Take for example my favorite brand of beer. Ninkasi out of Eugene OR. Why do I like it? It's cheap GOOD beer. 3.99 / 22 oz bottle. In fact it's one of the best bangs for the buck I've ever found in beer. And it's made in state to boot. I know some people who won't even touch it because it's "too cheap."


In response to the OP, I draw the line at 1$ / ounce. Most I've ever spent on a 22 oz bottle is 21.49, and the most i've spent on a 12 oz bottle is 11.49. I rarely do that, and more times than not it's a special or limited release and curiosity gets the better of me.

In OR though, craft beer is a way of life. We are SNOBs (Supporters of Native Oregon Beer) ;)


As for wines, my palette isn't nearly developed enough in that hobby to pick out "bad from good." I just know styles and what I like in that regard. When it comes to brands, I usually just sample those in my price range and find ones I enjoy drinking. As for whether or not they're "good" by someone else's standards isn't a care of mine as my opinion is the ultimate deciding factor ;)

I approach things that way with beer, with wine, with food, and even cigars.

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:banger:bangerThank You Tom! Exactly.

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Ever try a Buckhorn?

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World class = best in the world.

I do.

Perhaps I should have said "world class to me", but I thought that was obvious.

I don't buy wine based on Robert Parker recommendations and I don't buy beer based on what reviewers at www.ratebeer.com or www.beeradvocate.com have to say, since my taste in beer and wine is different from all of the above.

I know when I say that I hate Imperial Russian Stout and Belgian Abbey Ales that many beer aficionados will tell me that I'm crazy .. but I really don't care, I drink what I like. Same with wines.

For example, in MY opinion:

World class beer: Weyerbacker Simcoe Ale - 11 bucks a 4 pak.
World class wine: Caymus special select - north of 100.

The PRICE doesn't make these world class, how much I like them does.

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For 2009, craft brewery sales represented 4.3 percent of volume and 6.9 percent of retail dollars of the $101 billion U.S. beer industry, the association reports.http://www.mlive.com/kalamabrew/inde...7_percent.html

There just aren't that many people out there educated about good beer. On the off chance they might pick up a craft six pack they probably get turned off by the fact that it doesn't taste like the other three beers they have had (bud,miller,coors) and therefore can't understand why you would pay so much for that crap (their words not mine).

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That's easy because they don't enjoy beer enough to spend $14 on a 6 pack.