Altadis USA sues Tatuaje Cigars
 

I copied-and-pasted from another forum.

Altadis USA has officially filed a lawsuit over the use of the Fleur De Lys on Tatuaje Cigars. They have filed suit in the Florida Southern District Court. The lawsuit names Tatuaje Cigars, Pete Johnson, My Father Cigars and Jose Pepin Garcia as the defendants. The docket can be found here: http://dockets.justia.com/docket/cou...ase_id-345807/.

Re: Altadis USA sues Tatuaje Cigars
 

Altadis is so ****ing lame.

Re: Altadis USA sues Tatuaje Cigars
 

What Altadis cigar uses the Fleur de lys? I'm assuming there is one.

Re: Altadis USA sues Tatuaje Cigars
 

Montecristo.

Re: Altadis USA sues Tatuaje Cigars
 

I think im boycotting buying any Altadis Cigars...not that I've bought any before but this gives me another reason not to

Re: Altadis USA sues Tatuaje Cigars
 

I hate Altadis. I hope their company fails.

Re: Altadis USA sues Tatuaje Cigars
 

This is why we need tort reform and loser-pays in the US.

Re: Altadis USA sues Tatuaje Cigars
 

Typically the loser does pay court costs.

Re: Altadis USA sues Tatuaje Cigars
 

The Tat's needed a new band anyway.

Re: Altadis USA sues Tatuaje Cigars
 

Ah... forgot about that one. I can definitely see where Altadis is coming from here. Pete has himself one of the fastest growing companies in the industry and Altadis isn't very well thought of in the industry. The Fleurs do look different though.

I definitely think the lawsuit is dumb here, but who can really blame them. Most of us who smoke Tatuaje don't smoke Altadis products much if at all. Can you really claim trade mark infringement on something as old and iconic as the Fleur De Lys? I guess if Fuente can claim they own the letter X, then what is the difference?

Re: Altadis USA sues Tatuaje Cigars
 

Guys, this is old news...Pete told a few of us at one of his stops that this has been resolved...Basically, he gets to keep using the symbol on Tat cigars, but cannot use it for any of his other brands (La Riqueza, El Triunfador etc)...

I am not sure why the date of the filing is yesterday, if what he said is true...Just repeating what he told us...

Hope that helps!

~brooks

Re: Altadis USA sues Tatuaje Cigars
 

I was looking mroe into this and ran across a lawsuit filed by Tatuaje against Altadis in August of this year. https://www.rfcexpress.com/lawsuit.asp?id=49868

So is this some kind of feud between them?

Re: Altadis USA sues Tatuaje Cigars
 

Didn't they have a years long dispute with Opus One wines in the past?

Re: Altadis USA sues Tatuaje Cigars
 

When did he tell you guys? I'm jut wondering as it looks like this was filed 2 days ago...

Re: Altadis USA sues Tatuaje Cigars
 

He told us this on Thursday...so I suppose it is possible he THOUGHT everything was fine...

**Shrug** like I said, I am just repeating what he told us, nothing more...

~brooks

Re: Altadis USA sues Tatuaje Cigars
 

Apparently there was/is a countersuit

http://cigarlaw.wordpress.com/2009/1...aje-v-altadis/

Re: Altadis USA sues Tatuaje Cigars
 

Look up what "court costs" means.

All of Tatuaje's legal fees for their defense of this suit is out of pocket and is not covered under "court costs".

Only time you generally see legal fees covered is if an agreement to settle is reached that incorporates legal fees as part of it or in cases of contracts where the contract stipulates the person filing suit to enforce it is entitled to fees. In those cases, many states say that then applies to both parties so either that prevails will get legal fees.

Not an attorney but did stay at a Holiday Inn.

Re: Altadis USA sues Tatuaje Cigars
 

I have been boycotting Altadis products for years.

Not because of the feud or the suit, though...just 'cause they suck.

Re: Altadis USA sues Tatuaje Cigars
 

True.
I think they will be suing the New Orleans Saints next.
They clearly copied from Altadis.

Re: Altadis USA sues Tatuaje Cigars
 

Hopefully they don't sue the guards at the Wicked Witch of the West's castle! :r

Re: Altadis USA sues Tatuaje Cigars
 

copyright infringement is copyright infringement.

Montecristo (CC) - 1935

Montecristo (NC) - 1995

Tatuaje - 2003

Pardon me while I LMAO.

Re: Altadis USA sues Tatuaje Cigars
 

Carlos is correct. The parties may ask the court to have the loser pay both court costs and the winners costs, which is what I think that Slavic was alluding to, although such payments are not automatic and must be asked for specifically in a judgment.

From Black's Law Dictionary, Abridged Seventh Edition.

cost, n, 2. (pl) The charges or fees taxed by the court, such as filing fees, jury fees, courthouse fees, and reporter fees. -- also termed court costs.

cost, n, 3. (pl.) The expenses of litigation, prosecution, or other legal transaction, esp. those allowed in favor of one party against the other -- Also termed [...] litigation costs.

court costs. See COST (2).

So we can see that the term "cost" can potentially cover both uses, but court costs is specific.

No links, this is from my printed copy.

Re: Altadis USA sues Tatuaje Cigars
 

I am in trouble, I have a felur de lys as part of my tattoo. putting something over it will be less expensive then court fees i guess. oh well.

Re: Altadis USA sues Tatuaje Cigars
 

Correct. There are many matters that get considered, often, in such cases esp. whether or not the copyright should ever have been awarded and what, specifically, constitutes the item that has been granted protection. I do my work in the patent area and am very successful at getting patents reviewed and withdrawn by both US Federal Court and the USPTO. I assume that there are other experts who do similar for copyright.

btw, IANAL.

Re: Altadis USA sues Tatuaje Cigars
 

If they sue them, then the Boy Scouts are next.

Re: Altadis USA sues Tatuaje Cigars
 

:tpd:

Re: Altadis USA sues Tatuaje Cigars
 

Couple of things:

The suit is for trademark infringement, not copyright infringement.

Under the federal trademark act, a prevailing party can, but does not automatically, recover both attorney's fees and costs.

Tatuaje sued first in federal court in LA, on August 21, 2009, seeking a ruling that it doesn't infringe any Altadis trademarks. Altadis' suit was filed in federal court in Miami on Friday. Because Tatuaje's suit was filed first, it is likely that it will proceed and Altadis' later-filed suit will be dismissed or transferred to be consolidated with Tatuaje's suit in LA.

Re: Altadis USA sues Tatuaje Cigars
 

Unreal. Altadis might benefit from it if someone confuses a Montecristo for a Tatuaje. :ss

Re: Altadis USA sues Tatuaje Cigars
 

Considering that the history of Altadis goes as far back as 1918...Tatuaje goes back all of 6 years....

For those of you who wish Altadis to fail, maybe you want to re-think your words??

Re: Altadis USA sues Tatuaje Cigars
 

It is still going to be a legal fiasco when (if) the Embargo ends IMHO.

Re: Altadis USA sues Tatuaje Cigars
 

Agree with ya there Tom!!

Re: Altadis USA sues Tatuaje Cigars
 

Well, still want them to fail. And if the commies don't believe in ownership of property, why should they believe in owner of trademarks. ;)

Re: Altadis USA sues Tatuaje Cigars
 

I would understand the lawsuits and everything if Altadis had the FdL trademarked a long tile ago, but they just did it this year AFTER they saw the sucess tat was having and that was the embl they used. Definatly sleezy to say the least

Re: Altadis USA sues Tatuaje Cigars
 

Hey,
Anyone using a Montecristo photo for an Avatar, look out!!! You too may get sued by Altadis.:r

Re: Altadis USA sues Tatuaje Cigars
 

if they made tasty cigars maybe I'd give a S**t!

Re: Altadis USA sues Tatuaje Cigars
 

Nah! In New Orleans they spell it "Fleur de lis" so it must be something different.:r:r

Re: Altadis USA sues Tatuaje Cigars
 

I find it kind of amusing as the Fluer is one of the most generic symbols used for a lot of different companies and wouldn't think that a symbol like that couldn't be trademarked. Hell, the Saints use it, BoyScouts, Big Tattoo Wines(http://www.bigtattoored.com/) etc etc. Altadis will need to start thier own legal dept if they really want to say they trademarked it. I'm going to go and trademark the question mark tomorrow and anyone who uses it whether it's for their company or in the paper or magazines I am sueing the crap out of them. Whenever I wear my Tatuaje t-shirt people always ask if I am a Saints fan. Never once did someone say, "Hey I like Montecisto too.":td
Sounds to me like Altadis does not like that Pete/Pepin has taken a big chunk of their market share. Maybe they should concentrate more on making a better cigar that will appeal to the masses rather than nit picking generic symbols. Just my .02

Re: Altadis USA sues Tatuaje Cigars
 

Trademarks are with respect to specific products. So one company could have cigars, another a football team. Now, if the Saints tried to market a cigar, it could get interesting.

Re: Altadis USA sues Tatuaje Cigars
 

Anyone have any Montecristos and is there a ©, TM or ® next to the symbol?

Re: Altadis USA sues Tatuaje Cigars
 

In 2006 Altadis sold 3.2 billion cigars worldwide. Pete Johnson sells around 1.2 million a year. We could all quadruple our Tatuaje consumption and that still wouldn't be "taking a big chunk" out of Altadis' business. If anything is hurting Altadis' business, it's governments and taxes... not Pete Johnson.

Re: Altadis USA sues Tatuaje Cigars
 

Given my limited knowledge of laws governing this, I can't be sure but...

Pete almost certainly filed suit first because by doing so he forced Altadis to tip their hand early (he probably had some forewarning about the impending suit). Also by doing this, as was stated above, the Altadis suit will NOT proceed until a judge either combines the suits or until Pete's suit is totally settled (initial plus any appeals). Once either of those happens, then the next step proceeds.

I don't think that Altadis will come out a "winner" in this one. The Tatuaje brand doesn't come close to even comparing itself to the Montecristo line anywhere. They don't claim to be like it, near it, or even know it exists. The use of the Fleur-de-lis dates back well before the 12th century, making it unlikely that anyone can claim is as something protected by their trademark. Other than the use of the known FDL shape, they don't really have anything in common.

Re: Altadis USA sues Tatuaje Cigars
 

They better start sueing fraternities around the USA. Many use the fleur in their badges and crests.

My fraternity didn't trademark a normal fleur, instead we copyrighted a use of the fleur with our other symbols. We have issued a cease and desist to companies that try to freely use our 'emblem' on cups, shirts, shot glasses mugs, thongs, cigar holders...etc etc...


Also, there is a steakhouse Indianapolis uses the fleur too.

Re: Altadis USA sues Tatuaje Cigars
 

Another legal thought to trademarks, when one is given legal approval for a trademark, that entity who owns the trademark has the duty to protect it by going after anyone who tries to use it.

If they don't practice their legal powers to protect their trademark, it can be brought up in court by other parties citing that so and so company isn't doing their due diligence to protect what was granted to them.

This is why Apple Corp sues every mom and pop apple orchard and apple sounding company out there...McIntosh apples...etc etc. Whether or not Apple will win their case in trademark court, it won't matter, they are protecting the dilution of their trademark.

That's Than's terms...and I welcome anyone to correct my view of this.

Re: Altadis USA sues Tatuaje Cigars
 

Maybe they should sue Savoy too.... :rolleyes:

http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/showthread.php?t=24016

Re: Altadis USA sues Tatuaje Cigars
 

Did Altadis file papers to sue the Boy Scouts of America, yet?

Re: Altadis USA sues Tatuaje Cigars
 

I have a pair of boxers that I bought from Old Navy that have the fleur de lis symbol on it. I hope they don't sue me :rolleyes:

Re: Altadis USA sues Tatuaje Cigars
 

Why does a symbol not become public domain similar to a piece of music? The symbol is so old that trademark infringement seems pretty lame to me. It's like an arrow being trademarked or a cross. As long as the symbol in question isn't a direct copy of the Montecristo version...what's the big deal?

Re: Altadis USA sues Tatuaje Cigars
 

There are lots of variations of the FdL. I'm in the furniture business and see them on upholstery fabrics all of the time. I've also seen a number of other furniture/design firms that us it in their logo.
I cannot see this suit going very far. Seems more like desperation.

Re: Altadis USA sues Tatuaje Cigars
 

Ditto except in my case substitute "months" for "years" and you got something there.

Re: Altadis USA sues Tatuaje Cigars
 

Actually, there is a company that has signed up a majority of the fraternities and sororities in the US to be their official distributor for clothing, promotional items and other swag. They have aggressively gone after the many independents that cater to the local campus Greek organizations when they to tee shirts and other clothing items for copyright infringement and forcing huge settlements.

Back to the point: this has been developing for sometime now. Altadis first started this because Pete and Don Pepin made a pyramid shaped cigar that just happened to have a FdL on the band and looked a lot like a Monte #2.