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-   -   Packer fan thoughts (http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/showthread.php?t=50770)

icehog3 09-24-2012 11:31 PM
Re: Packer fan thoughts
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwoodward (Post 1722201)
Thank you Stephen, that's pretty much the rule I was referring too. I hate it when people cut out parts of rules to try to make their point. Shame on you mkarnold1... that's all I can say.
Yeah, no milk and cookies for you. :rolleyes:

dwoodward 09-24-2012 11:35 PM
Re: Packer fan thoughts
 
Can we give him a pointy hat?

massphatness 09-25-2012 05:21 AM
Re: Packer fan thoughts
 
As a fan of the game, and without a rooting interest in the outcome of this one, that was horrible.

Stephen 09-25-2012 05:37 AM
Re: Packer fan thoughts
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by icehog3 (Post 1722207)
Yeah, no milk and cookies for you. :rolleyes:
Wait...You guys hand out milk and cookies?

14holestogie 09-25-2012 06:34 AM
Re: Packer fan thoughts
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by massphatness (Post 1722236)
As a fan of the game, and without a rooting interest in the outcome of this one, that was horrible.
I did have a rooting interest in this one, but all I can say is, if any Seahawks fans feel good about this "win", then you have absolutely no b*tch on any calls that go blatantly against you in the future. You may be a Seahawk fan, but your respect for the game is MIA. :2

pnoon 09-25-2012 06:37 AM
Re: Packer fan thoughts
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen (Post 1722239)
Wait...You guys hand out milk and cookies?
Only to the children. ;s

King James 09-25-2012 07:17 AM
Re: Packer fan thoughts
 
I'd be interested to see if Russell Wilson and Golden Tate are as confident in their interviews this week about the call as they were in post game. At least Pete Carroll seemed to be saying that the call is what the refs say it is, versus the players saying, slightly arrogantly, that it was without a doubt a catch and there was no pass interference. Not that I expect them to come out and say that the play was called wrong, but maybe take a different approach in answering.

Mattso3000 09-25-2012 07:26 AM
Re: Packer fan thoughts
 
I've heard many commentators predict that, at some point, the replacement refs were going to cost someone a game... This is not, however, the first game in the history of the NFL to be decided by a blown call nor will it be the last. Blatant, yes. Unfortunate, yes. Unfair, maybe. The fact of the matter is, the Packers did not play well and left themselves at the mercy of the blown call.

ChicagoWhiteSox 09-25-2012 07:42 AM
Re: Packer fan thoughts
 
Sh!t like last night is the reason I'm watching less and less NFL and NBA games. How can you watch a sport with such consistant bad calls? It's really annoying, add that to the general change of how the game is played and called, it's getting hard for me to watch. I feel bad for the Packers and the fans, this coming from a life long Chicago Bears fan..

Gophernut 09-25-2012 07:45 AM
Re: Packer fan thoughts
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoWhiteSox (Post 1722305)
I feel bad for the Packers and the fans, this coming from a lifetime Chicago Bears fan..
X2. With the only change being that I am a life long Vikings fan...

ChicagoWhiteSox 09-25-2012 07:49 AM
Re: Packer fan thoughts
 
Funny thing about the NFL, they DON'T care! NFL drags in sooo much money, people aren't going to stop watching games. They know that so why should they care about what's going on? It's going to get worse, trust me:2

14holestogie 09-25-2012 07:52 AM
Re: Packer fan thoughts
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattso3000 (Post 1722296)
I've heard many commentators predict that, at some point, the replacement refs were going to cost someone a game... This is not, however, the first game in the history of the NFL to be decided by a blown call nor will it be the last. Blatant, yes. Unfortunate, yes. Unfair, maybe. The fact of the matter is, the Packers did not play well and left themselves at the mercy of the blown call.
The Packers played good enough to win, and did in virtually everyone's eyes.

Did the officials officiate well enough to continue to be employed? Virtually everyone also agrees they did not.

Maybe it hasn't cost your team anything yet, but odds are it's going to if the NFL insists on using these replacement officials through the season.

Mattso3000 09-25-2012 07:56 AM
Re: Packer fan thoughts
 
Didn't mean I don't sympathize. Sure they played well enough to win, but they also played poorly enough to lose. I'd be pissed if it happened to my team and at work last night actually was sympathetic to the many Packers fans I work with instead of rubbing salt in the wound like I would have expected a Vikes fan to do.

hammondc 09-25-2012 08:02 AM
Re: Packer fan thoughts
 
1 Attachment(s)
Funneh

Stephen 09-25-2012 08:07 AM
Re: Packer fan thoughts
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoWhiteSox (Post 1722305)
Sh!t like last night is the reason I'm watching less and less NFL and NBA games. How can you watch a sport with such consistant bad calls? It's really annoying, add that to the general change of how the game is played and called, it's getting hard for me to watch. I feel bad for the Packers and the fans, this coming from a life long Chicago Bears fan..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gophernut (Post 1722308)
X2. With the only change being that I am a life long Vikings fan...
You know it's bad when Vikings and Bears fans unite and say that the Packers got hosed. Surely this is a sign of the Apocalypse. :r

ChicagoWhiteSox 09-25-2012 08:14 AM
Re: Packer fan thoughts
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen (Post 1722320)
You know it's bad when Vikings and Bears fans unite and say that the Packers got hosed. Surely this is a sign of the Apocalypse. :r
Could have been any team:r I'm just getting sick and tired of bad calls, it's not like the past 5 years has had the best officials either.. With rule changes, and just stupid refs, I'll get behind any team to rip the league:r

dwoodward 09-25-2012 09:31 AM
Re: Packer fan thoughts
 
I found this picture online this morning. Best image yet showing Tate never even had his hand on the ball.

This is apparently "Joint Possession" at it's finest. Bad calls happen all the time. This was the most obvious bad call tho, that's why it's getting so much attention.

Check the pic:
http://twitpic.com/ay40m6

CigarNut 09-25-2012 09:34 AM
Re: Packer fan thoughts
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwoodward (Post 1722359)
I found this picture online this morning. Best image yet showing Tate never even had his hand on the ball.

This is apparently "Joint Possession" at it's finest. Bad calls happen all the time. This was the most obvious bad call tho, that's why it's getting so much attention.

Check the pic:
http://twitpic.com/ay40m6
It's getting much more attention because of the replacement refs. If the regular refs had made the call people still would have been pissed off, but it would have been much less of an incident overall. Just my :2

shilala 09-25-2012 10:09 AM
Re: Packer fan thoughts
 
Up until that td crap at the end, the Seahawks were showing they had some badass game. (...albeit no offense, may they burn in hell for sitting Matt Flynn and going with Russell Wilson.)
Green Bay had just turned things around and made a real contest out of the game.
This was a damned good Monday Night Football game, period.
Then the blown rape call.
Then the blown mugging call in the endzone.
Then the blown td call.
That's 3 huge misses in a row that went against GB, and they cost them the game. All 3 clearly because the refs sucked horribly.
I'm not a guy that ever complains about refs, win or lose, and always say that my team should play better to overcome a bad call, because they are part of the game.
That last drive looked like they were paid, plain and simple. It was so pathetic and so obvious and so unnecessary. It made a mockery of the game, and to my thinking, the high and mighty standing of Goodell and the NFL.
(I watched an interview where Goodell completely dismissed the refs and flat out said they could have a better product on the field in 3 weeks. That was well over a month ago. I wanted to punch his smarmy mouth then, and far more now.)
Rant aside, my point was that the refs ruined what was a damed good Monday Night Game. A hard fought, well coached game that had a good bit of twist and drama. Instead of any talk about how good a game it was, all we talk about is the suck refs.
It's like the NFL has no desire to be anything better than Jerry Springer.
Perhaps they think we're all just that stupid, and that's what we want?

Gophernut 09-25-2012 10:19 AM
Re: Packer fan thoughts
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by shilala (Post 1722371)
It's like the NFL has no desire to be anything better than Jerry Springer.
Perhaps they think we're all just that stupid, and that's what we want?
I think the NFL is so arrogant that they think that no matter what happens, all us sheep will continue to attend games, and watch on TV. As much as it bothers me what is going on with the ref's, will it make me stop watching my team? No. Will it make me watch something else if my team isn't involved? Maybe. What will it take to get this situation fixed? If this isn't impetus enough to get it moving then I don't know what will. Will we still be crabbing about this in the playoffs? I sure hope not.

pektel 09-25-2012 10:39 AM
Re: Packer fan thoughts
 
Will it hinder ticket sales enough to black out games that would normally be televised?

I mean, it's not a big deal to flip the channel on Sunday to check out the game. But entirely another thing to actually visit the venue and watch the debauchery live and in person. To me, it would have an effect on whether or not I buy a ticket, sit in traffic, pay $9 for a beer, etc.

mosesbotbol 09-25-2012 10:59 AM
Re: Packer fan thoughts
 
Why didn't they review the play at a minimum? I'd rather drag the game out than end it with questionable calls.

icehog3 09-25-2012 11:03 AM
Re: Packer fan thoughts
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mosesbotbol (Post 1722405)
Why didn't they review the play at a minimum? I'd rather drag the game out than end it with questionable calls.
I beilve touchdowns in the finals minutes are automatically reviewed....this one just wasn't reversed.

sevans105 09-25-2012 11:05 AM
Re: Packer fan thoughts
 
Fine me and use the money to pay the regular refs,” Packers guard T.J. Lang

Couldn't have said it better myself.

TJarv 09-25-2012 11:07 AM
Re: Packer fan thoughts
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mosesbotbol (Post 1722405)
Why didn't they review the play at a minimum? I'd rather drag the game out than end it with questionable calls.
It was reviewed

Stephen 09-25-2012 11:13 AM
Re: Packer fan thoughts
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by icehog3 (Post 1722408)
I beilve touchdowns in the finals minutes are automatically reviewed....this one just wasn't reversed.
Every scoring play is now reviewed, Tom. I know being a Bears fan and all, you don't get to witness this much. But it does happen. :tu:D

shilala 09-25-2012 11:19 AM
Re: Packer fan thoughts
 
If it takes the Packers getting screwed every week so that I don't have to hear about Tim Tebow anymore, I'm down.

CigarNut 09-25-2012 11:30 AM
Re: Packer fan thoughts
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen (Post 1722418)
Every scoring play is now reviewed, Tom. I know being a Bears fan and all, you don't get to witness this much. But it does happen. :tu:D
Quote:
Originally Posted by shilala (Post 1722419)
If it takes the Packers getting screwed every week so that I don't have to hear about Tim Tebow anymore, I'm down.
Two great quotes!!

:r

King James 09-25-2012 11:31 AM
Re: Packer fan thoughts
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by icehog3 (Post 1722408)
I beilve touchdowns in the finals minutes are automatically reviewed....this one just wasn't reversed.
From my understanding, it was only reviewed to the extent that both players stayed in bounds and had the ball. A "simultaneous catch" cannot be changed by review, even if the ref was wrong to determine the play last night as a simultaneous catch, the fact that he did means the play cannot be changed.

Granted, I've been busy at school and away from a TV all day, so haven't heard anything else since last night.

Stephen 09-25-2012 11:47 AM
Re: Packer fan thoughts
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by King James (Post 1722426)
From my understanding, it was only reviewed to the extent that both players stayed in bounds and had the ball. A "simultaneous catch" cannot be changed by review, even if the ref was wrong to determine the play last night as a simultaneous catch, the fact that he did means the play cannot be changed.

Granted, I've been busy at school and away from a TV all day, so haven't heard anything else since last night.
NFL's, "official" statement (emphasis mine):

Quote:
In Monday's game between the Green Bay Packers and Seattle Seahawks, Seattle faced a 4th-and-10 from the Green Bay 24 with eight seconds remaining in the game.

Seattle quarterback Russell Wilson threw a pass into the end zone. Several players, including Seattle wide receiver Golden Tate and Green Bay safety M.D. Jennings, jumped into the air in an attempt to catch the ball.

While the ball is in the air, Tate can be seen shoving Green Bay cornerback Sam Shields to the ground. This should have been a penalty for offensive pass interference, which would have ended the game. It was not called and is not reviewable in instant replay.

When the players hit the ground in the end zone, the officials determined that both Tate and Jennings had possession of the ball. Under the rule for simultaneous catch, the ball belongs to Tate, the offensive player. The result of the play was a touchdown.

Replay Official Howard Slavin stopped the game for an instant replay review. The aspects of the play that were reviewable included if the ball hit the ground and who had possession of the ball. In the end zone, a ruling of a simultaneous catch is reviewable. That is not the case in the field of play, only in the end zone.

Referee Wayne Elliott determined that no indisputable visual evidence existed to overturn the call on the field, and as a result, the on-field ruling of touchdown stood. The NFL Officiating Department reviewed the video today and supports the decision not to overturn the on-field ruling following the instant replay review.

The result of the game is final.

Applicable rules to the play are as follows:

A player (or players) jumping in the air has not legally gained possession of the ball until he satisfies the elements of a catch listed here.

Rule 8, Section 1, Article 3 of the NFL Rule Book defines a catch:

A forward pass is complete (by the offense) or intercepted (by the defense) if a player, who is inbounds:

(a) secures control of the ball in his hands or arms prior to the ball touching the ground; and

(b) touches the ground inbounds with both feet or with any part of his body other than his hands; and

(c) maintains control of the ball long enough, after (a) and (b) have been fulfilled, to enable him to perform any act common to the game (i.e., maintaining control long enough to pitch it, pass it, advance with it, or avoid or ward off an opponent, etc.).

When a player (or players) is going to the ground in the attempt to catch a pass, Rule 8, Section 1, Article 3, Item 1 states:

Player Going to the Ground. If a player goes to the ground in the act of catching a pass (with or without contact by an opponent), he must maintain control of the ball throughout the process of contacting the ground, whether in the field of play or the end zone. If he loses control of the ball, and the ball touches the ground before he regains control, the pass is incomplete. If he regains control prior to the ball touching the ground, the pass is complete.

Rule 8, Section 1, Article 3, Item 5 states:

Simultaneous Catch. If a pass is caught simultaneously by two eligible opponents, and both players retain it, the ball belongs to the passers. It is not a simultaneous catch if a player gains control first and an opponent subsequently gains joint control. If the ball is muffed after simultaneous touching by two such players, all the players of the passing team become eligible to catch the loose ball.

OLS 09-25-2012 12:01 PM
Re: Packer fan thoughts
 
I sure am glad I am boycotting the entire NFL.

TJarv 09-25-2012 12:11 PM
Re: Packer fan thoughts
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLS (Post 1722438)
I sure am glad I am boycotting the entire NFL.
If this keeps up I'll join the cause

mosesbotbol 09-25-2012 12:33 PM
Re: Packer fan thoughts
 
Can't wait for the familiar faces of the NFL ref's to come back.

Justinphilly 09-25-2012 12:45 PM
Re: Packer fan thoughts
 
Of course the NFL made the statement they did. I have to imagine Goodell realizes it was the wrong call, but he HAS to support the replacements. I love Drew Brees' comments, "Ironic that our league punishes those based on conduct detrimental. Whose CONDUCT is DETRIMENTAL now?"

icehog3 09-25-2012 01:27 PM
Re: Packer fan thoughts
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen (Post 1722418)
Every scoring play is now reviewed, Tom. I know being a Bears fan and all, you don't get to witness this much. But it does happen. :tu:D
Only the defense! :r

Scott.....psssst.......Tim Tebow. :)

IBQTEE1 09-25-2012 02:43 PM
Re: Packer fan thoughts
 
Yep the Packers have the ball.

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/l...ta/PAckers.jpg

icehog3 09-25-2012 02:46 PM
Re: Packer fan thoughts
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBQTEE1 (Post 1722549)
And thanks to the refs, the loss. ;)

mkarnold1 09-25-2012 03:30 PM
Re: Packer fan thoughts
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwoodward (Post 1722201)
Thank you Stephen, that's pretty much the rule I was referring too. I hate it when people cut out parts of rules to try to make their point. Shame on you mkarnold1... that's all I can say.
I was just trying to get a rise out of the packers fans out there. And I did. It is really easy to pick it apart after seeing the play in slow motion and make a big stink about it. The refs on the field do not have that luxury. At regular speed it looked very much like a simultaneous catch, the ref made the call he thought was right based on the information he had at the time and in accordance with the rule as he understood. The reason I did not put the second part of that rule in there, although I did read it, is that the referee on the field was calling the play a simultaneous catch and thus, a TD for the seahawks and at that point in time the next part of the rule is superfluous. After the TD call was made, it is very difficult to overturn because you cannot overturn possession based on instant replay. You know what I hate? When people say "shame on you". :gary

King James 09-25-2012 03:45 PM
Re: Packer fan thoughts
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkarnold1 (Post 1722578)
I was just trying to get a rise out of the packers fans out there. And I did. It is really easy to pick it apart after seeing the play in slow motion and make a big stink about it. The refs on the field do not have that luxury. At regular speed it looked very much like a simultaneous catch, the ref made the call he thought was right based on the information he had at the time and in accordance with the rule as he understood. The reason I did not put the second part of that rule in there, although I did read it, is that the referee on the field was calling the play a simultaneous catch and thus, a TD for the seahawks and at that point in time the next part of the rule is superfluous. After the TD call was made, it is very difficult to overturn because you cannot overturn possession based on instant replay. You know what I hate? When people say "shame on you". :gary
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...s-debacle-too/

mkarnold1 09-25-2012 04:18 PM
Re: Packer fan thoughts
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by King James (Post 1722584)
Thanks for posting this article, it makes my point for me. Although Mike Florio makes the completely wrong statement "Make no mistake about it. This one could have been overturned. Rule 15, Section 9 makes the question of whether a pass was “ruled complete/incomplete/intercepted” subject to replay review, with no exception for questions of simultaneous possession."

The fact that no mention is given for simultaneous possession means that it cannot be reviewed, not that it can be. The question of possession is not one that can be reviewed, specifically because it is not on this list of situations that CAN be reviewed.

King James 09-25-2012 04:29 PM
Re: Packer fan thoughts
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkarnold1 (Post 1722597)
Thanks for posting this article, it makes my point for me. Although Mike Florio makes the completely wrong statement "Make no mistake about it. This one could have been overturned. Rule 15, Section 9 makes the question of whether a pass was “ruled complete/incomplete/intercepted” subject to replay review, with no exception for questions of simultaneous possession."

The fact that no mention is given for simultaneous possession means that it cannot be reviewed, not that it can be. The question of possession is not one that can be reviewed, specifically because it is not on this list of situations that CAN be reviewed.
Per the NFL statement today:

In the end zone, a ruling of a simultaneous catch is reviewable. That is not the case in the field of play, only in the end zone.

mkarnold1 09-25-2012 04:33 PM
Re: Packer fan thoughts
 
Interesting, the rule book makes no differentiation between field of play and the end zone. They will need to add that in there if that is the official take. Thanks for the heads up.

King James 09-25-2012 04:38 PM
Re: Packer fan thoughts
 
It breaks down to this, IMO:
1) the play was called incorrectly
2) its not going to be changed
3) the replacement refs are not qualified to call the games
4) the NFL doesn't care, because they are still making $

icehog3 09-25-2012 04:39 PM
Re: Packer fan thoughts
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by King James (Post 1722610)
It breaks down to this, IMO:
1) the play was called incorrectly
2) its not going to be changed
3) the replacement refs are not qualified to call the games
4) the NFL doesn't care, because they are still making $
Shame on you, King James.

mkarnold1 09-25-2012 04:41 PM
Re: Packer fan thoughts
 
It's not the first time a team got screwed by a bad call, and it won't be the last. Regardless of who's officiating.

14holestogie 09-25-2012 04:42 PM
Re: Packer fan thoughts
 
I heard Brett Favre is coming out of retirement, now that interceptions count as touchdowns. :D

King James 09-25-2012 04:45 PM
Re: Packer fan thoughts
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkarnold1 (Post 1722615)
It's not the first time a team got screwed by a bad call, and it won't be the last. Regardless of who's officiating.
If you are coming to the defense of the replacement refs, we will have to just agree to disagree. Sure, the regular refs make mistakes, but not these kinds of egregious mistakes with the same amount of frequency that has happened in the first three weeks and over the course of the preseason.

pnoon 09-25-2012 04:45 PM
Re: Packer fan thoughts
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by icehog3 (Post 1722612)
Shame on you, King James.
Don't forget to give him his cookie.

King James 09-25-2012 04:48 PM
Re: Packer fan thoughts
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by icehog3 (Post 1722612)
Shame on you, King James.
:r


Quote:
Originally Posted by pnoon (Post 1722622)
Don't forget to give him his cookie.
I thought those were only for the childre... wait. I see what you did there...

:sad




:)

icehog3 09-25-2012 06:00 PM
Re: Packer fan thoughts
 
Who is Brent Farve?

:D


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