Cigar Asylum Cigar Forum - stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet

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Da Klugs

03-16-2009 09:41 PM

Re: stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legend (Post 290668)

So I was right the only lucid arguement in your mind is yours and you will never see another point of view even as a possibility. Thanks for confirming that.

:r

Your point of view (opinion) was presented in the first post here. The fact that others don't agree or question the credibility of your assertions has little to do with "seeing another point of view". It's a matter of the assertions lack of traction based upon facts in evidence and our personal experiences. Not an opposing point of view, but the lack of credibility of yours. No one is asserting that internet cigars are better than B&M's. Not agreeing with you is not the same as not being able to see your point of view.

What cigars have you found to be better at the B&M than from the internet? How long did you own them before smoking them and making these judgments? And, did you buy singles on the internet or boxes of them?

lightning9191

03-16-2009 09:45 PM

Re: stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legend (Post 290668)

So I was right the only lucid arguement in your mind is yours and you will never see another point of view even as a possibility. Thanks for confirming that.

Ad hominem argument....not a good way to make your point.

SeanGAR

03-17-2009 04:18 AM

Re: stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legend (Post 290668)

So I was right the only lucid arguement in your mind is yours and you will never see another point of view even as a possibility. Thanks for confirming that.

If you came up with an argument that was convincing of course I could be persuaded to change my mind. I mentioned this already.

What I'm looking for is a series of statements backing up your thesis. Data would be helpful. For example, you suggest a number of times that B&Ms would be better markets for a cigar manufacturer. How so? How many boxes would your B&M buy of a specific cigar .. lets say Rocky Patel Decade torpedo as an example ... compared to CI? Neither you nor I know the prices that Rocky charges CI or B&Ms, but volume discounts are typical in many industries and they are rarely hidden. Why is the B&M a better customer? One would kind of think CI would sell a few more decades than your B&M, no? Wouldn't the manufacturer think their best customer is the one pushing the most boxes .. not necessarily the one with the cushy leather seats and flat screens?

That is a question, answer at leisure.

Remember, if Patel makes 40 bucks a box on 25 boxes your B&M buys, they make 1000 bucks. If they make 5 bucks a box on 3000 boxes CI buys, they make 15 grand. Sales volume often drives profit. Yet, your thesis is that better quality RP Decade torps are going to the B&M because they are better customers. Maybe the total cigar volume sales are wildly in the B&M favor because there are so many of them. Dunno. You have any numbers on sales volumes for big internet retailers v.s combined B&Ms?

Legend

03-17-2009 07:59 AM

Re: stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet

The fact is that neither side is provable and I never looked for agreement. Only discussion. I acknowledged the possibility of my opinion being wrong and some of the merits of the other side. Others here gave their opinion and said the other side was impossible. And mocked. The fact remains its unprovable. You don't have to agree but its just arrogantly stupid to require proof or convincing to, at a minimum, acknowledge the possibility.

ahc4353

03-17-2009 08:03 AM

Re: stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet

I know a guy that has a humidor he bought from a lounge.

BTW, it has a few really nice cigars in it.

I don't think he got them from the local B&M but I might be wrong.

pnoon

03-17-2009 08:06 AM

Re: stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet

Quote:

Originally Posted by ahc4353 (Post 291061)

I know a guy that has a humidor he bought from a lounge.

BTW, it has a few really nice cigars in it.

I don't think he got them from the local B&M but I might be wrong.

Al - you're only wrong on days ending in the letter Y. ;)

ahc4353

03-17-2009 08:11 AM

Re: stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet

Quote:

Originally Posted by pnoon (Post 291063)

Al - you're only wrong on days ending in the letter Y. ;)

Come here you height challenged bundle of love so I can give ya a http://img118.exs.cx/img118/1691/hug8ok.gif

So he does get them from a B&M? :hm

pnoon

03-17-2009 08:22 AM

Re: stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet

Quote:

Originally Posted by ahc4353 (Post 291073)

Come here you height challenged bundle of love so I can give ya a http://img118.exs.cx/img118/1691/hug8ok.gif

icantbejon

03-17-2009 08:28 AM

Re: stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet

These posts are always ammusing to read. No one ever takes opposing opinions very well.

14holestogie

03-17-2009 08:32 AM

Re: stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet

Quote:

Originally Posted by icantbejon (Post 291094)

These posts are always ammusing to read. No one ever takes opposing opinions very well.

I TAKE GREAT EXCEPTION TO THAT REMARK!

:r:r

Legend

03-17-2009 08:33 AM

Re: stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet

I don't know specifically why the B&M customer is worthy or considered more valuable, but nick perdomo. Rocky patel. La aurora and don pepin are hosting guys from our lounge at a considerable loss within the last year. Have all visited our lounge at least once in the last year. Eddie Ortega when I spoke with him said "I don't want to just sell to CI, Thompson and famous.". I don't have the numbers, but it would seem that these guys consider the local shops very valuable.
I believe that is a lucid conclusion. Please correct my dimentia if I'm wrong.

ChicagoWhiteSox

03-17-2009 08:47 AM

Re: stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet

That may be a lucid conclusion, but you may also have lucid dreams:r
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6lBx...eature=related

I have a feeling this thread will reach 1000 posts easily:r

icehog3

03-17-2009 10:00 AM

Re: stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeanGAR (Post 290884)

Remember, if Patel makes 40 bucks a box on 25 boxes your B&M buys, they make 1000 bucks. If they make 5 bucks a box on 3000 boxes CI buys, they make 15 grand. Sales volume often drives profit.

Oh, sure, Sean, use logic. Real nice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legend (Post 291110)

I don't know specifically why the B&M customer is worthy or considered more valuable, but nick perdomo. Rocky patel. La aurora and don pepin are hosting guys from our lounge at a considerable loss within the last year. Have all visited our lounge at least once in the last year. Eddie Ortega when I spoke with him said "I don't want to just sell to CI, Thompson and famous.". I don't have the numbers, but it would seem that these guys consider the local shops very valuable.
I believe that is a lucid conclusion. Please correct my dimentia if I'm wrong.

Seriously though, what is Ortega going to say when visiting a B&M...."I don't really care about these places, I make the real money from CI and Thompson."? Of course not. And I am sure that the B&Ms are valued by Rocky, Nick, etc, but to the point of forgoing the internet/catalog retailers? Not a chance.

Noodles

03-17-2009 10:09 AM

Re: stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet

http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/pictur...pictureid=1629

SeanGAR

03-17-2009 10:30 AM

Re: stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legend (Post 291110)

I believe that is a lucid conclusion. Please correct my dimentia if I'm wrong.

Oh I'm certain that you're right in concluding that the cigar manufacturers consider the B&Ms and their customers to be valuable. And I sometimes go to my local B&M simply to meet with reps and their rollers when they come to town. DPG, NP, CF or RP come to town and cigar smokers get excited and want to meet the legends in the industry. They come to the shop and besides chatting, buy cigars, maybe they try some new ones that they will like and buy. This is just part of the advertising that cigar manufacturers are involved with, as are online web sites.

But I was thinking "more valuable" in the sense of where do the profits originate from ... B&Ms or big internet shops. I'm personally inclined to think the profit split is not vastly unbalanced, if we combine all B&M sales v.s. all internet sales. This would suggest that manufacturers pay attention to and care about both models of sales. Which would argue against one getting better quality than the other.

Another thing that I was thinking about today is that often the first release of a cigar is superior to subsequent releases. Lets look at an example: La Aurora cien anos. I was not as excited about the last box I had (smoked ROTT) compared to ones I had when they were first released (smoked ROTT). My B&M has one of the first release boxes hidden away (you need to do some serious rooting or ask for them to find them). I bought one of those and liked it better than my recent box purchase. Was this due to some quality stratification at the manufacturer - B&M v.s. internet, as you suggest? Was it due to age? Was it because those B&M cigars were the first release? In the latter case, it is likely that the first release cigars are available longer at B&Ms than online - make sense?

Only the shadow knows.

Legend

03-17-2009 10:57 AM

Re: stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeanGAR (Post 291274)

Oh I'm certain that you're right in concluding that the cigar manufacturers consider the B&Ms and their customers to be valuable. And I sometimes go to my local B&M simply to meet with reps and their rollers when they come to town. DPG, NP, CF or RP come to town and cigar smokers get excited and want to meet the legends in the industry. They come to the shop and besides chatting, buy cigars, maybe they try some new ones that they will like and buy. This is just part of the advertising that cigar manufacturers are involved with, as are online web sites.

But I was thinking "more valuable" in the sense of where do the profits originate from ... B&Ms or big internet shops. I'm personally inclined to think. the profit split is. not vastly unbalanced, if we combine all B&M sales v.s. all internet sales. This would suggest that manufacturers pay attention to and care about both models of sales. Which would argue against one getting better quality than the other.

Another thing that I was thinking about today is that often the first release of a cigar is superior to subsequent releases. Lets look at an example: La Aurora cien anos. I was not as excited about the last box I had (smoked ROTT) compared to ones I had when they were first released (smoked ROTT). My B&M has one of the first release boxes hidden away (you need to do some serious rooting or ask for them to find them). I bought one of those and liked it better than my recent box purchase. Was this due to some quality stratification at the manufacturer - B&M v.s. internet, as you suggest? Was it due to age? Was it because those B&M cigars were the first release? In the latter case, it is likely that the first release cigars are available longer at B&Ms than online - make sense?

Only the shadow knows.

Valid point. My only addendum would be that the locals are the shop that are in danger of going out of business and this would make you want to give them more attention or an edge. That is where the more valuable comes in they know there are a ton of guys who only smoke socially and would not order on the net or just don't do the "internet thing".

Legend

03-17-2009 11:02 AM

Re: stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet

Quote:

Originally Posted by icehog3 (Post 291241)

Oh, sure, Sean, use logic. Real nice.

Seriously though, what is Ortega going to say when visiting a B&M...."I don't really care about these places, I make the real money from CI and Thompson."? Of course not. And I am sure that the B&Ms are valued by Rocky, Nick, etc, but to the point of forgoing the internet/catalog retailers? Not a chance.

Eddies comment was unsolicited. We were discussing business and I explained how mine had started with a very large customer and I had concentrated on building many small customers so that one leaving me would never effect me. To which he responded "of course" and the rest of the quote. He was not catering to a local guy he was just talking business.

Da Klugs

03-17-2009 11:22 AM

Re: stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet

I just had a good B&M. Self stirring when complete. :tu

taltos

03-17-2009 11:50 AM

Re: stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet

Quote:

Originally Posted by Da Klugs (Post 291322)

I just had a good B&M. Self stirring when complete. :tu

Even better if you have some steel cut oats and thick cut crispy bacon the day before.:tu

pnoon

03-17-2009 11:53 AM

Re: stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet

Quote:

Originally Posted by taltos (Post 291357)

Even better if you have some steel cut oats and thick cut crispy bacon the day before.:tu

Nah. Today will be better.
Beer, corned beef and cabbage.
mmmmmmmmm :pn

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