Re: The Poor Mans Behike?
 

fair.

but very difficult to separate a man from his life's work.

Re: The Poor Mans Behike?
 

Most are playing catch up with Cubans, few do something original. Cigar manufacturers are like parrots when it comes to their own products. Just about everything is a copy or compared to Havana. In terms of manufacturer and construction, many have Havana beat, but they still don’t taste like a Cuban cigar. It’s much safer copying something that is successful than taking a gamble. Someone who gambles and strikes their own niche end up in a better place.

What would be innovative would be making cigars in sizes that aren’t the norm in this market. I am sick of big ring gauge cigars. Yes, they are fun to smoke now and then, but by and large are really dull.

As for the poor man’s Behike, he should’ve exaggerated the pigtail much more than they are. It should be like a bow on a present. The wrapper shades do not look like a top end product, but I am sure they are decent smoking cigars at a minimum.

Re: The Poor Mans Behike?
 

It may be innovative, but would it be good business? I definitely prefer smaller RGs and under 50, but the market is driving the products. You see this in both CC and NC.

Also, Pete has done some stuff with smaller cigars both in RG and length. The El Triunfador Lancero OR is probably my favorite NC made.

Re: The Poor Mans Behike?
 

I alaso agree that YOU DO have to give the man credit for at least for his part keeping the narrow ring gauge
concept afloat. Cuba seems hellbent, SEEMS hell, they are hellbent to get rid of it entirely. Sometimes I think
the REASON they are ditching the small RG cigars is because they actually think that that format was responsible
for nearly bringing down the entire house after the boom. It was not the little cigars, it was the little skills in the galera.

NEO, I have to disappoint you, I ain't never goin back to the NCs. I am not a big smoker anymore and the CCs
have my full attention and all my time. I can smoke for the rest of my life "for free" and only smoke CCs. So no
more money will be spent discovering the wonderful NC cigars I am bashing without tasting, haha.

Re: The Poor Mans Behike?
 

The only thing that bugs me is the way PJ is justifying his actions. If you want to make Behike clones, just do it. It's not like he is going to be taking money out of Cuban mouths. If you know what a Behike is, you aren't going to confuse the two.

The announcement he should have made was, "Yea, I like the way they look, so I'm making my own, so what?"

Re: The Poor Mans Behike?
 

Ill be sure to test these at the show this year.

Re: The Poor Mans Behike?
 

Can't argue with that!:D:r

Re: The Poor Mans Behike?
 

I am glad you posted this because it only JUST hit me after reading this....I think that I definitely
jumped a gun or two here...The words "the cigars are a take on Behike and BHK 52,54 and 56" are the
words of CIGAR Afishingknotto. PJ COULD have said all that, but I certainly couldn't say.
Not sure we will hear from PJ again on this thread as it has definitely gotten a little heated, but I reacted
strongly to the fact that I thought this was some kind of direct quote or verbal admission that he just felt
like copying the cigars in question. He may certainly done that, and in order to launch them he would
have certainly had to have had dozens of meetings where he described ganking their idea, but I think
a lot of times cA just says whatever they want. And cigars for some reason are all going big.

But how can he rip off the Saints logo like that and get away with it, lol?

Re: The Poor Mans Behike?
 

they can't be worse than the real behikes, overhyped and overprized smokes as they are.

Re: The Poor Mans Behike?
 

Do they still have a team ?????? :sl

Re: The Poor Mans Behike?
 

Nailed it Ferdinand!

Re: The Poor Mans Behike?
 

And not for nuttin, but look at Lew Rothman and what HE DID as SOON AS the cigars were announced.
He put out a BLOODY AWFUL "clone" of the BHK line as an Alternative bundle and actually had the balls to say
that BHK was all a big show of packaging and he was gonna put out a cigar that rivalled the BHK and do it without
ripping off the people, blablabla. NOW THAT is offensive. His version is a TIRE FIRE. ANd he used the
words BHK in his cigar name.

Re: The Poor Mans Behike?
 

"I am only paying homage to the sizes of Behike. Why not, they already copied my Cabaiguan Guapos size (5 5/8 x 54 - with a pigtail) that has been around for far longer... "

This is what I was referring to when I said he was justifying his actions. From a comment on the original article, I am assuming that the poster was actually Pete Johnson.

Re: The Poor Mans Behike?
 

Could be right, you likely are. I was just stopped for a minute when I remembered the Ca source.

AHH, I see, you are quoting his statements in THIS THREAD, I forgot all about those.
I was just thinking about the Ca article.
In the end it matters not to me, I have no use for his OLD products although I know there
are fans, even freaks for the stuff.

Is that a effin HOLOGRAM in that tobacco leaf? LOL....you whore.

Re: The Poor Mans Behike?
 

I assume then he is paying homage to the size of the behikes, paying homage to the jars, paying homage to the book releases....paying homage to the EL second band.....Lots of homage, interestingly enough he never mentions blatant theft, no because homage sounds better ;)

I should start a company called "Tat2waHey cigars by Peet Johnston". It's a homage I swear, it's not me trying to make millions blatantly ripping you off...it's a homage :)

I bet he'd sue.

The least he could do is make the cigars look better, merely presentation wise the Behikes look 10 times better at least. But he's right nic tobacco is better :rolleyes:

So why does your product look vastly inferior then? :hm

Re: The Poor Mans Behike?
 

Holee Carp, thanks for reminding me...I need to pick up another box of BHK 52's Fernando!

Re: The Poor Mans Behike?
 

In the auto business they say "there an a** for every seat". Market is also driven by what is promoted.

Connoisseurs like small ring gauge cigars. Cigar critics like small ring gauge cigars. Many B&M owner like small ring gauge cigars… All the people needed to drive a fad are all in check. What is not in check in the cigar business is forward thinking; they beat the same drum ad nauseam.

Re: The Poor Mans Behike?
 

Haha, thanks for grounding me again, Bill. I forgot this was not only about the BHKs. :r

Re: The Poor Mans Behike?
 

:r

Re: The Poor Mans Behike?
 

Meh....it's all marketing and hype. If you're talking about it and arguing about it then you are getting his brand name out there. Can't argue with the strategy behind it.

Are there some Tat's I enjoy? Sure. Am I going to go out of my way to track down every little thing he releases? No.

It's all relative to what you enjoy.

Re: The Poor Mans Behike?
 

What do people think about the Cohiba Count Draculas? I haven't read any reviews of the Bolivar Boris. I really love the Farm Vintage 2009 Partagas where all the tobacco came from one farm. Oh wait, there aren't any cuban cigars like this... how could've Pete sold his Monsters and La Verite's then?

I can understand people having an opinion, but this "debate" is so old already... why get yourself worked up, over this of all things??? If you don't like something, why keep bringing it up over and over? Maybe express your opinion once to get it off your chest and then be done with it and live a happier life.

Everyone has an opinion so I could care less if people don't like what Pete is doing. But the simple fact is cuban cigars are illegal in the US so why not take ideas from what they are doing and recreate it in the US? If a business owner sees a good idea and knows it sells, why would they not want to do something like that for themselves?

Examples in other industries:
- Coke comes out with a new style of plastic bottle or top that sells well. Should Pepsi say "oh we better not steal Coke's idea"... hell no, they will make their own.

- Samsung develops WiFi inside their TV's. Should Sony not put WiFi in their tv's because another company already did it? Hell no.

- Mercedes develops a rear facing video camera for when driving in reverse. Should other manufacturers not install cameras because Mercedes did it first? Hell no.


So why should the cigar industry be any different? An argument could be that these are technology changes and not marketing, but I could cite many examples of marketing strategies/ideas copied as well. In the cigar industry, there really can't be many technology changes so a good portion of sales is all about the marketing and having a good blend of tobacco. Not much room to play except driving good packaging and marketing.

Like other wise men say... smoke what you like. Why let the things you don't like bother you? Just move on...

Re: The Poor Mans Behike?
 

Don't forget IP laws;)

Re: The Poor Mans Behike?
 

Ryan, you are something.

So if a metal band has a lead singer, that just gives Pete Johnson
license to just LOOK LIKE HIM? I think NOT! There are LAWS!

Take your backward ideas to the Hawaii forum.
.

.

.

:r

Re: The Poor Mans Behike?
 

Interesting way of putting it Ryan.

Re: The Poor Mans Behike?
 

I know I said I was done before but I lied!:r
There is one thing we can all agree on. Pete Johnson is clearly the guy that a lot of guys love to hate. Especially here on CA. I just look at it as more sticks available for me to smoke. :D

Re: The Poor Mans Behike?
 

For the record, I don't hate Pete at all, and have had some Tats that I enjoyed. Not my first choice, but there's room for many, and obviously the man is doing something right.

Re: The Poor Mans Behike?
 

So what you're saying is you believe the CC Cohiba to be in the right? You know, despite the fact that the current CC Cohiba brand was entirely stolen from the now Dominican Cohiba that fled during the revolution. You should be bashing most, if not all, Cuban marcas for stealing company names, sizes, and even blends from pre-revolution Cuban marcas.

All I'm saying is trying to defend CC marcas like they're something holy that can't be touched from NCs that are using similar sizes and ideas is hypocritical at best. Especially defending a company like Cohiba, which stole EVERYTHING from the pre-revolution Cohiba that still exists in the Dominican.

:2

I'll grab some of these when the come out. Will be interesting to try to say the least.

Re: The Poor Mans Behike?
 

Amen John. I feel the same way. :D Tat Ho's United!!

Re: The Poor Mans Behike?
 

This country is great... everybody has rights....

You have a right to smoke cheap cigars, you have a right to smoke expensive cigars, you have a right to smoke bad blends, you have a right to smoke good blends, you have a right to beech about gimmicky cigars, you have a right to ignore gimmicky cigars, you have a right to drink chitty beer, you have a right to drink good beer, you have a right to smoke for the image, you have a right to smoke for the tastes, you have a right to post fluffer reviews, you have a right to ignore fluffer reviews, you have a right to describe your cigar with 58 adjectives, you have a right to describe your cigar with 10 adjectives.....

Just don't crap on the hood of someone's car. That might get you in trouble :D

Re: The Poor Mans Behike?
 

Comments Pete made yesterday on another board below in quotes.12 Rounds is a good fight on any card - I judge it a draw! Really just posted this originally as a news item. Maybe we should let it rest now - along with some cigars of your choice.


"Hey guys. Long time not here. Just wanted to jumped in a talk about the new lines. The company as a whole is gonna be exactly it's name, The Workshop. We will always be experimenting. The main point is to make great cigars. The Behike thing is my way of thanking the Cubans for using my Cabaiguan Guapos size (5 5/8x54 with pig tail) which came out long before Behike 54. Cigar sizes are nothing original anymore and I'm sure you will see many other people copying the formats in the BHK line. Curious if anyone else will actually come out and say they are doing it. ???

The best part of all of this, is the production of the new bundle products. As much as I love my premium boxed cigars, I can honestly say that the bundles we are making are premiums also.

Thanks for letting me jump back in."

Pete

Re: The Poor Mans Behike?
 

The Cuban Revolution took place from 1953-1958, so I am not sure how a marca establsihed in 1966 could have been stolen from anyone in pre-revolutionary Cuba. ;)

Re: The Poor Mans Behike?
 

Sorry, herped my derp in memory there. It was RyJ who fled Cuba during the revolution. Either way, my point stands.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romeo_y...ta_%28cigar%29

H. Upmann as well:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H._Upmann

Montecristo, sort of:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montecr...cigar_brand%29

Re: The Poor Mans Behike?
 

I really hate the way this is worded and how he keeps mentioning it. He really thinks they were sitting there in Cuba going.....

"damn we need a size for the Behike Line, we had the ideas of 52-54-56 ring gauge. We know exactly what length we want the 52 and 56 but we're just so damn puzzled as to what length to make the 54 :hm You guys all know that Cabaiguan cigar by that dude who looks like Dane Cook with tattoos? *a bunch of resounding No's fly through the room* Let's steal the Guapos size!"

They converse for a few minutes among themselves and all say "brilliant! brilliant!" Consider it stolen! Thank you Mr Tattoo dude!

:rolleyes:

I would HIGHLY doubt anyone in Cuba knew about the Cabaiguan Guapos or had it in mind when they made the Behike 54. I could be wrong but it just sounds like quite a stretch.

Re: The Poor Mans Behike?
 

Exactly, Cubans are very PROUD people. That's just how their culture is. They know they have the best tobacco in the world, and they will tell you that.

Re: The Poor Mans Behike?
 

Dane Cook with tattoos:r:r

Re: The Poor Mans Behike?
 

Gee I think Bill has made it clear on MANY occasions that he dislikes Pete Johnson. Nothing like beating a dead horse repeatedly.

Re: The Poor Mans Behike?
 

Yes, just so proud that they forcibly steal brands from their own people and then later sue the same people they just stole a brand from when said people try to re-start their brand in a different country.(see Montecristo in my above post)

The later part of your post is entirely subjective.

Re: The Poor Mans Behike?
 

:r

Re: The Poor Mans Behike?
 

So we're laughing at the Cuban Revolution and all the atrocities committed by both sides both before and after the Revolution? I don't see whats so funny, frankly you're just coming across as an ass(which I'm sure I am as well, no helping it, inflection can't really be recreated on the internet).

Re: The Poor Mans Behike?
 

I hope the mods close this up before it gets too far out of hand.

Re: The Poor Mans Behike?
 

Name calling is childish (and against this forums rules);)

Re: The Poor Mans Behike?
 

Absolutely true, just as those who are saying that CCs can't hold a candle to Nicaraguan cigars in this thread are also making subjective statements. That's the thing about tastes and preferences in cigars....they're ALL subjective. Smoke what you like, like what you smoke, (and keep it civil, Gentlemens.) :)

Re: The Poor Mans Behike?
 

I know you said "so we're laughing at the Cuban Revolution", but I can tell you I'm not, so you must be laughing by yourself.:sh

Re: The Poor Mans Behike?
 

But if I liked him and posted it repeatingly in every thread it would be okay right?

Kinda funny how that goes........

Re: The Poor Mans Behike?
 

A Bill and "Dane Cook with tattoos" bromance?

Woah...

Re: The Poor Mans Behike?
 

Hence why I worded it as a question. There were a couple things I said that you could have been responding to. Since you have just ruled out the forced theft of a company by the Cuban government in 1961, you must have been laughing at either the plight of Mendez, Garcia y Cia, the rightful owners of Montecristo, or you're laughing at the fact that tastes are subjective, particularly the view that one area in which tobacco is grown is better than others.

I'm not saying you said this or calling you out on this, but the same argument that cigar tobacco grown in area A is better than in area B is the same argument used to justify the Jim Crow laws of the past.(If a mod feels I went a little too far here, feel free to remove this part of my post, no hard feelings)

Re: The Poor Mans Behike?
 

No it wouldn't be ok. And no one does that here. Nice try though. It's just that everytime someone posts a thread about PJ and a new line he's coming out with, you pipe in with your drivel and personal attacks against him, as if you grew up with the guy and he took your lunch money in middle school. But I digress, like what you smoke, smoke what you like. This is my last post in this thread.

Re: The Poor Mans Behike?
 

That's a horrible analogy and in bad taste. If you felt it was inappropriate, why post it? I'm sure you knew it would offend someone, and I would say you accomplished that:tu

Re: The Poor Mans Behike?
 

I like Tatuaje Cigars. I like Cohibas more. Gonna give the new Tat a shot, might even smoke one of my BHK's soon. Hopefully they're both tasty :tu

Re: The Poor Mans Behike?
 

This is how I feel about this thread...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrjMkeXGfGM