Re: The Official 2012 NFL Draft Talk Thread
 

But Wallace's game stretches the field and buys McCoy some time to breath and become an NFL quarterback. That's a long stretch, and I don't think McCoy's arm chases down Wallace, but Ben ain't no Aaron Rodgers, and Wallace made him look like a real quarterback.
I can see where Brad is coming from, at the very least. And I really don't think McCoy will flesh out that bad. He's only had one year in the lights, and not even a full year. I'd certainly take him in front of Seneca Wallace.
He's a good kid, good athlete, and very coachable. If he's working his ass off this offseason, I think he moves up a few rungs and becomes a mid-level qb if he has something to throw to. Wallace would be that, not necessarily the target, but he'd get Little, Massaquoi and Cribbs open.
I think, if Massaquoi wanted to play over the middle and had the gumption or balls to do it, he'd excel. The last few years he's just been a turd in the punch bowl. I think Wallace would change that, or at least have some impact.

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If only Kalil could possibly end up in Burgh. He's instant 10 years of pro-bowl. If he's still around at #4, he'd be huge for Cleveland. Add him to the Wallace argument and things are looking way up.

I think the best we can do is Cordy Glenn. I don't even know where we draft, I haven't looked. I don't start getting frustrated with my Steelers till camp. I think I'll keep it that way. :)

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There's never been a question about Roethlisberger's arm, which is what I'm talking about. Why would teams have to respect Wallace deep if defenses know that McCoy isn't a threat to get him the ball anyways? He's not a franchise quarterback, and in today's NFL teams simply can't win (consistently) without one. In short, if you don't have one, you best be looking for one.:2

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I'm forced to suffer through a lot of Cleveland football being that I'm in Cleveland and two of the brother-in-laws are fans. Plus it used to be fun to watch them lose.
That said, I think Colt's shortcomings aren't so much physical, they're mental. He's scared to death, and rightfully so. It's tough for any qb to to get splattered relentlessly. It'll ruin a young qb.
The boy can sling the ball. He seldom has opportunity to show that ability because he's backing up all the time, and he's developed that "throw off the front foot while I'm backing up" thing that doesn't work.
He almost never has a receiver open because they don't have a guy fast enough to open the field up. They can't even open up a little 10-yard out move, or a short timing pass because both teams are always playing on a 20 yard field when the Browns have the ball. They simply have no way to stretch the field and cannot get a wr open.
Wallace changes that immediately.

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Perhaps Jonathan Martin will fall to the Steelers. He was once projected to be a top 15 pick until Riley Rieff came along. Cordy Glenn would be huge for the Steelers. He can play tackle or guard; I think the Steelers pick around # 26.

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It doesn't look like they can get Glenn, he's expected to go around 23rd. Unless, of course, they get something for Wallace. But last I heard they intend to keep Wallace and Ben even restructured his contract so they could do so.
Which makes all this Wallace talk moot, but it's fun. :)

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Yeah, Cincinatti will snag him with one of their picks. :)

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Eh, I watched him for four years at Texas. In the end, he compounded a lot of stats in a league that's forgotten how to play defense.

The Browns aren't giving him a lot to work with, to be sure, but getting a deep threat doesn't change the fact that McCoy has a noodle for an arm that defenses aren't going to have to respect.

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I have to agree with Stephen. Colt McCoy is not an NFL QB; I was shocked when he was drafted in the 2nd/3rd round. The Big XII's defense are weak as hell in a leauge full of teams that only run the spread.

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Went in the bottom of the third of the 2010 draft. Which makes me wonder; how many quarterbacks were three/four year starters at major college programs and were drafted as low as McCoy went on to have any kind of success in the NFL. Joe Montana and...?

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..I can't think of any

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I'm excited to see where Nebraska's Lavante David ends up and when he will be picked.

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Has a chance to be picked in the second, but I see him going at earliest in the third.

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Stephen what did you think of Dontari Poe? That guy is a beast!

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A guy that big shouldn't be able to move like that. It simply isn't fair. He's raw though (from watching him on film) and needs to be coached up. That being said, I don't think he falls out of the top 15, but definitely a boom or bust player. Personally, I think the perfect landing spot would be with the Chiefs, who have the 11th pick, although I could see him going as high as six to Washington (unlikely) or eight to Carolina (entirely possible).

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He definately shot up the draft order with his showing at the combine. He'd be an amazing fit for the Steelers, but the odds of him lasting till 24 are slim to none at this point.

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Scott, any truth to the rumor that the Steelers are going to cut ties with Hampton and slide Ziggy Hood inside? If true, that could allow the Steelers to draft a five-technique guy like Fletcher Cox or Devon Still (if he's still around). If DeCastro happens to fall in your laps, you guys have to take him, right?

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They're looking for Casey's heir apparent, Stephen. Poe was going to be that guy before the combine happened.
I think Hampton has one year left on his 3 year deal that included a lot of guaranteed money. At the end of that deal he'll have been around for 12 years. That's probably a little long in the tooth, no? I'm not sure what the life expectancy is for a nose tackle, but that seems about right.

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He's also coming off a third acl surgery, no? Not to mention his backup Chris Hoke retired. That Steel Curtain looks to have a lot of rust on it...

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Talking about the lack of defense yesterday in the Big XII and Casey Hampton today, it reminded me of those Longhorns teams back in the late 90's early 2000's that had both Shaun Rogers and Casey Hampton as their starting DT's.

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Yup. And Aaron Smith will likely retire. He needs neck surgery and the docs told him one hit in the right spot and he'll be coming off the field on a board and be peeing in a bag for the rest of his days.
Evidently that diagnosis has eased, because I haven't heard anything about his retirement.
The Steel Curtain is definately rusty. Despite their ranking last year, their numbers were way off from the year before. We're used to fielding a suffocating D and a marginal offense. That has always worked. With this new crap where we don't need a halfback and we want to sling the ball and make people go "Whee!!!", I really don't have any idea what kind of identity Pittsburgh is looking for.
You can't do it all under the cap.
If we're planning to have no o-line like we have for years, and no substantial D, I guess we'll just settle for Ben throwing to Wallace twice a game so we can go "Wheeee!!!"
I really have no idea what they're doing, my friend. If you can figure it out, you need to tune me in. They're driving me nuts.
If Hines Ward isn't back this year, and Heath Miller for some reason no longer shows up, I really don't have much left to root for.

I should mention that Casey may or may not be ready for camp. He may start the season on the PUP.

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I could never see this happening. I know it's a what if scenario; however, there are so many teams that need interior lineman help and DeCastro is the best guard prospect we've seen in the last decade.

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Eh, there's been lots of guards who were held in similar regard, and were even thought more of because of their potential to play multiple positions along the line (Mike Iupati/Branden Albert/Mike Pouncey immediately comes to mind). DeCastro doesn't offer that; what you see is what you get (albeit a talented guard). So even if DeCastro is a better player, because he plays a position that frankly is about the least important position on the team, he's not going to be drafted relative to his (perceived) talent. Does that make any sense?

*edit* And I'm not saying that DeCastro will assuredly fall to the Steelers. I will say, though, that's he much more likely to fall to the Steelers than he is to get drafted in the top 15.

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It's not just me who thinks this kid is special. Also where did you see that DeCastro is only stuck in one position?

These were just a couple of the first mock drafts that I pulled up. Each one had him going in the top 11.

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Not saying that he isn't a good guard project. But being the best guard project is akin to being the tallest midget. In other words, elite offensive lineman aren't wasted (relatively speaking) at guard. I went looking, and the last guard to get drafted in the top ten was Chris Naeole back in 1997. I don't know much about the two guys drafted in the top ten in 1986 to comment (Brian Jozwiak/John Rienstra). Because he doesn't have the feet/hips to play outside. Woe unto the quarterback whose team drafts this guy and tries to make him a tackle.


Not intending to be mean-spirited, just passing along some of the things I've learned over the years watching/playing/coaching football. Hey, to show there's no hard feelings, if DeCastro does end up getting picked in the top ten, I'll send you a nice fiver to celebrate.:)

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Oh no man, no hard feelings at all! Just discussing some football is all! I hope you didn't think anything I said was mean spirited.

We will differ on our opinions on a lot of things, but that's ok it makes things more interesting to talk about.

No need to send a fiver brother! :)

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Come to think of it you and shilala both will be sending me a 5-pack at the end of baseball season. :r

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I looked around a bit, and there's a lot of hack talk about the Steelers picking up a Tight End at 24. Specifically, Cody Fleener.
It never occurred to me that we could use a tight end to work with Heath, but that'd be a huge move, offensively.

I do know that we have kids from last year that should be ready to go this year on the o-line. There were a number of season-ending injuries at camp. I have no idea what the Steelers have in the bag defense-wise, maybe they think they're solid enough to play shootout ball now?
Once again, it's a lot of guessing. I have no earthly idea what they're doing or what direction they're heading. They're been heading towards an all-pass offense with Ariens, so they hire a coach who likes to run. Mendenhall is broke down, Moore in an unrestricted free agent as is another one of our rb's (I forget which). That leaves us John Clay. Who's John Clay? Exactly. :lr
If someone has any clue, I would LOVE to hear what you got. I don't even care if you're clueless, at least if you have an idea, that's somewhere to start. It's more than I have. :D

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Scott says he's the man when it comes to fantasy baseball. I haven't played in nearly a decade so I know someone's gonna be having a smoke on me come September.:r

Funny, but I think the key to the entire 2012 NFL draft is Matt Kalil.

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I think he is a very big key! I've been saying if the Rams don't trade out of the #2 spot they should definitely draft Kalil. This would allow them to move Roger Saffold over to RT and slide Jaison Smith inside to LG. This improves 3 positions on their OL using one pick; however, I think Washington is going to end up throwing the boat for the #2 overall. I've heard a few scenario's where they are going to give up 1st, 2nd and 3rd picks in this draft as well as 1st and 2nd's next year. That's a deal that you can't pass up!

I haven't played fantasy baseball in a few years but it seems like it will be fun doing it for smokes!

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I agree about Kalil, Stephen. QB's are a 50/50 shot. I don't care how good Luck or RG3 are, either can wash out. Of Luck and RG3, I think Robert has the best chance to succeed. He will bust his ass till he dies, he's coachable, and if he fails, it won't be for the lack of giving it everything he has.
Kalil is plug and play, very likely a pro-bowler next year, and barring injury should crank out 10 good, solid pro-bowl seasons.
He could easily go number one in the draft were it not for Indy's dire need of a qb. It wouldn't surprise me at all if he goes second, shocking the entire world. Depends where the Rams send their pick. Minnesota would be in big trouble at that point, but I think they'd pass on RG3, and he may end up in Cleveland, although I still think Cleveland sticlks with McCoy. If RG3 falls in their lap at 4, I could see that changing everything. I know it'd change my mind, even if I'd decided to stick with McCoy. You don't look that gift-horse in the mouth. (Although Minnesota would because they're retarded.)

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The Rams have said they want a marquis WR to show Bradford off. Someone for people to come out and see. If they trade their pick to the Steelers for Wallace (who they're supposed to be keeping), the Steelers would bring Kalil on, I'd think.
Oh, to have RG3 on the bench behind Ben. That'd be sweet. I can dream for a minute, right? :D

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Yeah, I think it all boils down to how much the Rams love Kalil, and weighing that against whatever offers come their way for a team to draft RGIII. If the Rams do trade out, Kalil for sure goes to the Vikings. Either way, the Vikings are in a pretty good spot (they either get Kalil or get a bounty of picks to move down so a team can draft RGIII). I bet the Browns are loving the fact that they beat the Dolphins 17-16 and the Seahawks 6-3 right about now...:r

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Randy Moss to the Rams.;)

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OOOOooooo, Randy Moss. Maybe they can bust out TO, too. :D
I'm not sure who the Rams are courting, but that's their plan. I don't think they're thinking a wr from the draft, they need asses in seats and think they're good enough to win with a good wide receiver.
Regardless, if they still suck, they're likely to make some noise or at least put up some big plays.

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Agreed. No matter what they'll get some of their bigger holes filled. It's tough to feel that LT is as dire of a need as others do, since the holes that they have other places are the size of the Grand Canyon. BUT...I really think that Ponder is going to be a solid QB, one who they have been searching for (in a young QB, not someone ready to be put out to pasture), so Drafting RG3 is not where they would go, IMO. Now if by some act of Dog, Luck falls to them, I would take him and trade Ponder (or keep Ponder as the backup and move Webb to WR). I just haven't watched enough of RG3 to be that high on him (remember that Geno Toretta even won a Heisman, so that award doesn't mean a lot, IMO). And if the best thing to do is to add a potentially elite LT to keep his jersey clean, then they need to do it. As I said before, if that's the case, they definitely need to be a player in the FA scene, as far as WR and DB go. Wallace in Purple? I think he'd make a nice compliment to Harvin. Harvin is a great slot receiver, but having him outside is a waste of his talents, IMO. He's tough over the middle, and will take the punishment. Plus running out of the slot, he's a threat for a handoff when he's in motion. Rudolph (TE) has shown some promise. He seems to have massive hands, and I saw him make several great catches last year. So getting someone on the outside seems to be a spot they really need to address somehow this offseason.

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I just saw that the Steelers will NOT franchise Wallace. They can't. They're 2.75 million under the cap right now and the franchise tag would cost them 9.5 million.
It appears we'll be getting someone's #1 draft pick.
Does anyone else smell Wallace for the Ram's #2?

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I saw on ESPN where they were reporting that the Steelers were just going to put a first round tender on him instead of the franchise tag(2.7 million vs. 9.4 million). Honestly, I don't see a team giving him a big contract AND giving up a first round pick, not with the crop of free agent wide receivers that are going to be available. Certainly is possible, though.

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I'm a bit lost on a "first round tender".
I understand that the reason his restricted free agency demands a first round pick is because he went in the first round.
I know franchise amounts are set by the CBA, as are tenders.
I just fail to see what the point is in the Steelers offering him a one-year 2.7 million deal? Any other team can beat that by a buck and give up a first round draft pick, right?
Or do the Steelers then have the opportunity to beat that offer, repeating ad nauseum?
Or does the dealing stop as soon as the Steelers beat any and all offers made for Wallace?
I'd think it'd be a better move to NOT offer him a deal, see if others come up with a number, then beat it, since they only have 2.75 million to play with anyways. The hope being that the highest offer for Wallace would be maybe 1.5 million.
I'll leave it at that because I really want to understand the tender offer and I have never been able to get my head around it.

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If someone can tie him up for a 5 year/30 million deal (or something ridiculous) based on the strength of their bargaining position because of that flush pool of wide receivers, it'd totally be worth a draft pick when you're trading it for an established, excellent receiver.
Didn't Jimmy Johnson come up with some sort of draft value scheme that everyone uses, as in what a draft pick's value is dollar-wise?

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A first round tender has nothing to do with where he was drafted (he was drafted in the 3rd round BTW) but what kind of protection the franchise puts on his rights (there are varying levels of tenders a franchise can use). So in this case, they put a first round tender on him (this year being 2.7 million) and Wallace is free to seek out a deal with any other team. So, let's say the Rams offer and Wallace agrees to a 5/30 deal. The Steelers then get the right to match that offer. If they choose not to, the Rams sign Wallace to the already agreed upon contract and the Steelers get the Rams 1st round pick as compensation. Make sense?

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So Peyton Manning has a $28 million roster bonus due next week. There's no way that Irsay pays that, right?

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Aaron Smith and Hines Ward got chopped yesterday. That leaves 4 million in cap money for Ward, no idea if Aaron was still under contract.
Ward agreed to play for league minimum and the Steelers still wouldn't have him back. They'll suffer for that. No one on that wide receiver core can block, cheat, or take a hit like Hines.
I'd have much rather seen Wallace go and Ward stay. Bastids. I'm about one inch from becoming a Tampa Bay fan.

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Yup, perfect sense.
But now it begs the question as to why, as a restricted free agent, Ward commands a first round pick if someone picks him up?
Or am I just mixing up the tender offer with restricted free agent rules?

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I can't see it.
I can't see Peyton playing next year, either, in common-sense land. Equally, I'm also afraid he's too much of a gamer a la Farve and he'll play until he gets knocked right out of his shoes.
After the talk here and reading up a bit, I can't see Peyton passing a physical and being picked up. I think he's too hurt to catch on with a team right now. If he's released, and I have to think he will be, he may get picked up right around camp time.
In a perfect world, I'd like to see him stay in Indy in some sort of coaching capacity. I think him and Irsay are on the same page and truly love each other and are good friends. If that can work, I think it happens.
Last year Peyton rewrote his contract to protect the club from his failing health. He didn't want the organization to pay him for what they didn't get. The fact that Irsay wrote the last $8 million check is testament to what those two have going. I think they both knew, in the back of their heads, that was severance pay.

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Hines Ward was under contract and the Steelers released him. Mike Wallace is a RFA, which means that although Wallace can shop around, the Steelers still own his rights. It's been awhile, but I believe this (RFA) applies to every player after they've completed three years of service that wasn't drafted in the first round. By all means, if this is incorrect, someone come straighten us out.:r

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Yeah, to me it said a lot that the club paid him all his monies AND didn't put him on the IR. That was a gracious move on their part that got buried in the news behind what kind of toilet paper Tebow uses to wipe his arse with.

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I meant Wallace, duh.
The snot medicine has taken me to outer space. :)
I read the restricted free agent rules the other day, if I'd have thought for one minute before typing, I'd have already known the answer.
I actually pulled the rules up because the guys on the radio show I was listening to didn't know the answer, either.

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Right. If they put him on the PUP, they don't have to pay him the 8 million. That speaks volumes. It's why I don't really imagine any friction or hidden agenda between Irsay and Manning.
The only thing I can see between the two is Irsay saying "Peyton, you're done. For the love of all that is Holy, please stop before you have no body left to enjoy your millions."
And Peyton is saying "I gotta play. My kid brother has two rings, I have one. I need at least two to get to the HOF, etc..."
Isn't it nuts that Eli has two rings to Peyton's one? I mean, really? No one on earth even puts Eli close to Peyton so far as QB talent goes. I think it's because Eli is coachable while Peyton isn't, so much. Peyton puts the whole team on his shoulders and carries that weight around. Eli just plays ball. He's okay with sucking. Peyton is not.
They sure are two different players. That extra ring really puts Eli on an even keel with Peyton at the family dinner table, for sure. :)