Re: NFL
 

Glad I'm a College Football Fan :D

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Amen

Haven't watched baseball since the strike back in 94-95

I'll forgive the NFL players because this is a lock out, not a strike.

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Umm... and isn't the BCS a complete peice of work too? Yeah, college football doesn't have any problems.:rolleyes:

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BCS is garbage, I will 100% agree

But at least we'll be playing this year and there is no chance of a strike from a bunch of half starved college kids :r

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MLB will be playing too.:tu

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But no one will be watching. ;)

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Case in point I pulled up 6 nation Rugby the other day instead :banger

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That's why.

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I'm probably the only person who actually doesn't want a college football playoff system...:lv

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You sure about that? How else could Pujols be asking for $300 million if no one was watching.:rolleyes:

Looks like no one will be watching NFL if they don't get their act together.

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"A fool and his money are soon parted."

-Thomas Tusser

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That is true for ALL professional sports.:tu

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81 home games vs. 10 home games :tu

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But that means that many people are watching.

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No arguments here my friend. But in this case it'd be incredibly foolish.

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Most NFL games are sold out and teams have a list for season tickets about a mile long. Baseball games rarely sell out, outside of rivalry weekends. Plus you can get to a MLB game for around $5-15. Not sure of any NFL teams who offer $5 tickets, maybe the Panthers and Jaguars I suppose. Try getting a ticket to a Steelers game vs. trying to get a ticket to a Pirates game, but of course you have 81 games to choose from for the baseball game. :2

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Very much so. $30 mil a year is worth it now, but when he gets old and playing with a cane, then those final 2-4 years are gonna be a drain on payroll.

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Not exactly, that means many people have an opportunity to watch. When you have 81 home games and can't even draw 5000 a night (not even going to mention TV viewership, or lack thereof), that speaks volumes.

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And if baseball shortened its season, then they would have more sellouts. It would suck to shorten it up to only 16 games a year though.

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Sure, he's the best hitter in baseball (and it's not all those close), but the fact of the matter is he doesn't play an important defensive position (unlike A-Rod, who's a gold glove winning SS & 3rd baseman) and that has to factor in, doesn't it?:2

I guess he could always be the DH for the Yankees.;s:D

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Of course there are many other factors to why baseball players demand so much money, but the teams have much more revenue coming in because of the size of the season and revenue sharing to draw from. Some teams spend the money, some put it in their pocket. The same could be said for NFL teams and NBA teams alike. :td

I don't think the NFL is going to alienate their fans like the NHL did during their lockout and lose a majority of their television contracts and young fan base. The NHL does put a better product on the ice now, but no one can watch it with most games being on Versus or OLN. The NHL has lost a fan base purely because they are no longer as accessible, the NFL will not lose that. But I digress. :hm

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Scalper tickets, yes. Normal admission, no. Not for good seats anyway. Yankee tickets are outrageous.
TV viewership is not as big as NFL agreed, but they have a decent audience. FOX wouldn't be competing to televise their games if there was no audience.

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Agreed. Baseball has the advantage of long seasons (I think it is still about 30-60 games too long) but you won't see it shortened ever. Late season games, particularly between non-contenders are a drain and players (much less fans) don't even bother to show up. Who watches Pirates' series in late September? :sh

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Which isn't a problem for most teams. What's funny is that the teams that are drawing bad crowds have good teams :r

You can't compare viewer ship or attendance between baseball and football. The way in which their season and playoffs are structured is to different. And plenty of people are watching baseball, buying merchandise, and going to games. Look how much more baseball players make than footballs on average, pretty impressive numbers. Even the baseball minimum salary is much larger :tu

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:r:r
True.

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Well said.:tu

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You can buy bleacher seats at most venues for under $10 face value, which for my money are better than sitting in the last row in any football stadium for $40+. I am a bigger football fan than anything, but a sports fan no doubt. For my money, I would rather take a family of 4 to a baseball game for around $50-75 with some snacks and beverages than a football game where you would spend more than that much on 2 tickets. :2

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Which is a good thing for baseball IMHO.:)

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Bad teams fill their stadiums (Cubs) all the time. But the same is even more true for the NFL. Even the Browns and Raiders find a way to put butts in seats on a regular basis. :rolleyes:

The average salaries are staggering and its amazing that the sport that has the largest roster size, largest risk for injury, such a large viewership and fanbase and shortest careers has such a small payroll comparative to the NBA and MLB. :hm

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I agree, it is 'America's Pastime' and continues to be the best 'value' in pro sports. It is very accessible to even the smallest of fans. It makes it easier for teams to connect with their fanbase when you can get a kid into a game for $5 and he has the chance to see a pro-athlete that close and could take home a foul ball or something similar. At NBA and NFL games you likely leave with an empty wallet. ;)

Re: NFL
 

*cough*Marlins*cough*
There's no direct comparison, but looking for some sort of breakdown I came across this doozy. I'm not saying, nor have I ever said that people aren't watching baseball or going to games. I'm saying that there's a market there for a lot more people to watch baseball, attend games and buy merchandise, but because of the economics of baseball in its current format, restricts that untapped market.:2
That's because football rosters are twice the size of football rosters. I'd counter that the top 25 paid players on each NFL squad would be a higher average than the average salary of an MLB player, but it doesn't add anything to the discussion so I'll leave well enough alone...

Re: NFL
 

You'd be surprised, after the top 10 guys the money falls off pretty fast. Elite players compared to elite players and its not even close. Even situational relievers and pinch hitters make significantly more than players who play significant rolls on NFL rosters. ;)

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The Marlins have a good team. In fact they usually are competitive, in a difficult division, so whats your point? It's the best example of team with no fan base thats good.

And your roster argument doesn't stack up. As said above, elite MLB players make much more than their NFL counterparts. Plus, unlike the NFL, there are three tiers of minor leagues players usually go through to get to the big show. A,AA, and AAA all have a full roster of players and coaches, and while they don't make the major league minimum they do earn a decent salary. When you factor in that cost, the operating overhead in terms of payroll is much higher than any NFL team, which just pulls talent straight from college. Plus these days most teams own and operate camps in other countries to scout talent. So the fact that baseball players are so much better compensated is indeed quite impressive when you think about it :tu

Also, the WS ratings only go to show there is comparing television ratings between baseball and football. The superbowl might as well be a holiday, everybody watches regardless of who they root for. Baseball is much more regional, I watch the superbowl for the commercials, but I only caught two games of WS because I didn't care much about either team. If the Yankees and Cubs played in a WS they would blow the superbowl ratings out of the water.

Re: NFL
 

You said:
And I responded:
When did I say otherwise? I simply wondered aloud (or more specifically at the end of a post rhetorically) how the average MLB salary would stack up against the top 25 players of an NFL squad.
Completely irrelevant to a MLB players average salary.
Not really. But we'll have to agree to disagree.

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I thought you were implying the Marlins were bad. And the minor leagues are relevant as they are part of the MLB. If your not impressed by how well compensated baseball players are based on all the additional overhead MLB teams face that NFLs don't , that's your opinion. But the fact remains that baseball is very profitable, compensates it's players better than the NFL and is thriving despite all the setbacks of the last 20 years.

Re: NFL
 

I'm enjoying the discussion. Very interesting.

:r :r :r No way. Aside from the Superbowl, I'd guess at least a half dozen other football games (be it regular season, or playoffs - if not more) would beat any World Series game....but definitely the Superbowl.

As for the topic...for a long time I believed that a capitalist structure was better...you should be paid as much someone else thinks your skills are worth.

But...for sports leagues to thrive as a whole, I think some sort of structure is needed. For the NHL to survive, they needed to take drastic measures, and they did. I think the NBA will have to do something similar (I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't play a game next year). The one thing all leagues with a cap have is both a ceiling and a floor. That's what makes a parity driven cap work. Could baseball be improved with a cap like that? Honestly, I think so...and I'm a Phillies fan! :D

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Just for kicks, I looked up the average starting salary for a MLB player here, and picked a random team (New Orleans Saints; found here) and added up the salaries of the top 25 players. Came to $99.59007 million (only added it up once, could be incorrect). Divided that by 25, and got $3.98 million. I'm positive it's different for different teams, just wanted to throw that out there.

Re: NFL
 

Pfft. This is by far the most ridiculous post in this thread...

Re: NFL
 

Try your theory with the Yankees vs. Packers. ;)

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The clinching game of the World Series this past season barely beat out a Monday Night Football regular season game. Even if a Cubs/Yankees series were to go six games, I doubt their combined viewership would equal that of the Super Bowl.

Re: NFL
 

Well since the top four paid players in all of baseball play for the Yankees, me thinks that would skew the bell curve some.;)

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Kind of like including the Pirates in an average when the base salaries for NFL players is severely more slotted than baseball. Minimum wage isn't close, and top end is even more glaring. Also, this doesn't even factor that MLB contracts are guaranteed for the life of the contract, NFL salaries are terminated on a whim with not a single dollar spent after a player is released or injured. :tu

Re: NFL
 

Smitty's initial point that I took interest in.
My reply:
I'm not arguing that MLB doesn't have a higher floor or a higher ceiling.:tu

Re: NFL
 

I understand, but the average salary is hardly as cut and dry as you make it/believe. Average career, total contract, injury risk, certain teams payroll etc. all make the 'average salary' much cloudier than it is in regard internet searchable numbers. NFL teams have relatively similar payrolls, MLB teams vary so much and teams all spend their money differently. :tu

Re: NFL
 

Forgot to include the link for the Saints salary; sorry.

Re: NFL
 

Why is it you're trying to lead me down a path that I'm not arguing? I'm not talking about career earnings or injury risks. Again, here's the statement that I (reluctantly) replied to:

Re: NFL
 

Ah, but your missing my point about the minors. Aside from the 25 man roster that, each MLB team is also responsible for three other 25 man roster, so every MLB team has far more players to manage on a whole.

And my Yankees/Cubs posts was the second most ridiculous thing posted. Someone chimed in earlier with an ever so insightful comment that no one watched baseball anymore, figured I might as well state something as ridiculous while the thread remained civil :r

As far as the salary talks, it's just a point to show that the sport is doing well. The MLB operates much differently than the NFL, the fact that they are still able to be successful without having to resort to the NFLs brand of sports socialism is a pretty worthy achievement since most other sports in this country seem to be going down that road unfortunately. All sports are a business and they should operate like any other business in this country imho. If a team or league can't cut it, it should fail :2

Re: NFL
 

Your link for the Saints includes their signing bonuses, which are sometimes prorated and included as roster bonuses that can be lost if a player is cut. It also includes 61 players instead of the roster of 53. For the full 61 players, assuming they made their base salary, which at least 8 of them didn't, the average is ~1.152 Million. Top 25 players average salary ~$2.012 million. If you add the signing bonuses, roster bonuses and incentives that may or may not have been reached assuming a player stays healthy, and doesn't get cut, yes, the salaries appear to be close. But look a little deeper and it is less than a third of the money on average for salary vs. salary. :tu

Edit: Also of note, the third 'best' player on the Saints makes about the average of any MLB player. Drew Brees is arguably one of the top 5 QB's in the game, the face of a franchise, and perhaps the league and makes about $1 million more than the average MLB baseball player. :hm

Re: NFL
 

Don't most MLB teams have more than one A/AA club? Not trying to be a smartass, just been awhile since I followed the minor's closely...

If this thread does turn sour, I assure you it won't be by my doing.:)
All I can say to that is this:
It's my opinion that while each franchise has a seperate owner, the business is MLB (or NFL/NBA/NHL). You see them as a separate entity. That seem about right?

Re: NFL
 

If a baseball player signs a three year three million dollar contract,he is going to get all his money.
If an NFL player signs the same deal he may get cut and get nowhere near what he signed for.
The NFL screws players all the time.