Re: Blind ten spot review Part Two
 

Looks like it's gonna be tomorrow. I'll take it to my son's football practice with me.

Re: Blind ten spot review Part Two
 

Cigar #5

http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/pictur...pictureid=2693

Construction: 5.5x58 light brown wrapper (I assume it's a Connecticut Shade), very solid

Prelight: Tastes like dry hay and has a barnyard aroma

I normally break my reviews down into thirds, but I'm doing it in two halves this time, as I didn't have anything to write down my thoughts while smoking. I smoked this one while watching my son's first scrimmage game.

1st half: Very complex. I detected sweetness, butter, caramel, confectioner's sugar, and honey. Near the end of the first half I detected nutty flavors.

2nd half: The second half was very nutty with hints of butter. Very creamy and smooth.

Final Thoughts: I liked this cigar. It wasn't nearly as mild as I predicted. Very enjoyable, but I wish I had smoked it early in the morning rather than in the afternoon. This stick would have paired well with coffee (with cream and sugar).

Re: Blind ten spot review Part Two
 

Andy based on your review and the pic I would guess it was a cabaiguan. I'm curious to hear what it is. :tu

Re: Blind ten spot review Part Two
 

Never had one before. I can think of a few cigars that match this profile, but I guess we'll have to wait and see.:tu

Re: Blind ten spot review Part Two
 

Almost grabbed a #5 tonight. Ended up smoking a #7.

Re: Blind ten spot review Part Two
 

Cigar #6

http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/pictur...pictureid=2712

Construction: dark brown wrapper, 5x50, wrapper was slightly cracked around the cap.

I paired this stick w/ coffee (with sugar and cream) as suggested by the sender.

Pre-light: smooth draw (a tad tight), cinnamon flavor detected

1st Third: Very bitter flavor upon lighting. Very bitter, old black coffee flavor detectable. The cigar starts to mellow out a bit and the bitterness goes away. Some sweetness is detectable.

2nd Third: Sweetness and chocolate are strong. Still has a bit of a black coffee flavor too.

Final Third: Sweetness is still detectable, although it is very slight. Cigar tastes of dark chocolate and coffee.

Final Thoughts: Not a bad cigar. I beleived that I've smoked this cigar before, but I have no guess as to what it is. This stick was not spectacular, but I would put it on my go to list.

Re: Blind ten spot review Part Two
 

ok, I'm back. I was down in Miami and my Verizon service was pretty shotty so I'm giving my reviews now.

I smoked #5, 6 & 10 - NOT in chronolgoical order as I smoked #10 Wed night, #5 Thur night and #6 on Saturday.

#5
Pre-light. Nice. Very nutty - in between the sweetness of almonds and the tang of walnuts. My taste bud memory tells me I have smoked this cigar before.

Initial draw - nice construction, easy flow but not loose. Aroma is quite pleasant. Taste is a little bland but that doesn't hurt anything.

1st third - I find that either the cigar is bitter, the Yuengling is bitter or the mixture of the two is bitter - either way, I've got a bitter taste going on. I decide to hold off on drinking any more of my beer and see where this leads.

2nd third - It was the mixture. Now I've got a nice flow of almost syrup sweetness going - not the Aunt Jamima too rich for human consumption syrup, but the real maple syrup from the NorthEast. MMmmmm...

Final third - the sweetness doesn't leave but it has mellowed out and I am just kicked back looking over the ocean enjoying the remaining parts of this cigar. I really wish I had another one as I'm smoking it so I could go light it up. The aroma from the cigar lingers in the patio and it is a great smell.

I look forward to hearing what this cigar is. The construction, burn and flavor on this is definitely worth looking into.

Above average!

-----------------------------------------------------

#6

I know you had asked me to drink this with coffee, but I don't drink coffee. I initially was going to drink some dark tea but because I was away from home I decided the next best thing would be a Guinness. As close to coffee as I can come. :)

Pre-draw - well, you instantly know why he wants you to drink it with coffee, as it tastes the way coffee smells (which I thoroughly enjoy sometimes). This had that "bite" taste. I see that Andy said bitter, which I could call it as well - but my initial reaction was "bite".

1st Third: Definitely coffee. In fact, this does go well with the Guinness. My senses are so set on the coffee taste that I get nothing else out of this section.

2nd Third: The coffee is subdued and here comes the bakers chocolate that I got from one of my previous tastings. Guinnesss still goes well with these profiles. I had one side run on me pretty good and it required a touch-up but nothing to take away from the cigar.

Final Third: I need to purge a couple of times as now I get the bitterness. It almost tastes like ash in my mouth. I don't like it - but thankfully I'm on another Guinness and am feeling good about being in Miami.

This was barely an average cigar. If it wasn't for the last third it would be slightly above average. Maybe I smoked it too fast. I'd definitely give it another shot.

-------------------------------------------

#10

This was the first cigar I smoked in Miami - and it was humid as hell with no wind whatsoever. I can't give a respectable review on this as I tried with all my might to keep it lit but the humidity (which you could literally see build on the patio railing) drenched this stick. I smoked it for roughly 30 minutes but got nothing out of it except a headache from acting like I was a hooker about to get paid double my rate.

I want to be honest about the reviews and not try to say it was because of the construction of the cigar as I feel that this scenario would have played out with any of the sticks. I just happened to grab that one as I was heading out to smoke.

So, I don't have anything good, bad, or indifferent to say about this stick -- except it can't stand up to 90+% humidity. :)

I hope to get the rest of your sticks done this week.

Re: Blind ten spot review Part Two
 

EEE's take:
#5
Pre-light. Nice. Very nutty - in between the sweetness of almonds and the tang of walnuts. My taste bud memory tells me I have smoked this cigar before.

Initial draw - nice construction, easy flow but not loose. Aroma is quite pleasant. Taste is a little bland but that doesn't hurt anything.

1st third - I find that either the cigar is bitter, the Yuengling is bitter or the mixture of the two is bitter - either way, I've got a bitter taste going on. I decide to hold off on drinking any more of my beer and see where this leads.

2nd third - It was the mixture. Now I've got a nice flow of almost syrup sweetness going - not the Aunt Jamima too rich for human consumption syrup, but the real maple syrup from the NorthEast. MMmmmm...

Final third - the sweetness doesn't leave but it has mellowed out and I am just kicked back looking over the ocean enjoying the remaining parts of this cigar. I really wish I had another one as I'm smoking it so I could go light it up. The aroma from the cigar lingers in the patio and it is a great smell.

I look forward to hearing what this cigar is. The construction, burn and flavor on this is definitely worth looking into.

Above average!


#5 is a cigar that has it's followers. I am one of them. I have enjoyed each of Alex Fernandez's incarnations in this series. I have these in a couple sizes, and have caught them on auction very reasonable for the quality you get. I'm glad you both enjoyed this.


Cigar #5 is:
















http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/g...row/cs-lcb.jpg
La Cuna bin no. 85

Re: Blind ten spot review Part Two
 

:hm
Never had a LaCuna. Not a bad stick.

It seems as if we both had similar thoughts on both 5 and 6. Still think I've smoked #6 before, but we'll see.

Re: Blind ten spot review Part Two
 

Now EEE's take:
#6

I know you had asked me to drink this with coffee, but I don't drink coffee. I initially was going to drink some dark tea but because I was away from home I decided the next best thing would be a Guinness. As close to coffee as I can come.

Pre-draw - well, you instantly know why he wants you to drink it with coffee, as it tastes the way coffee smells (which I thoroughly enjoy sometimes). This had that "bite" taste. I see that Andy said bitter, which I could call it as well - but my initial reaction was "bite".

1st Third: Definitely coffee. In fact, this does go well with the Guinness. My senses are so set on the coffee taste that I get nothing else out of this section.

2nd Third: The coffee is subdued and here comes the bakers chocolate that I got from one of my previous tastings. Guinnesss still goes well with these profiles. I had one side run on me pretty good and it required a touch-up but nothing to take away from the cigar.

Final Third: I need to purge a couple of times as now I get the bitterness. It almost tastes like ash in my mouth. I don't like it - but thankfully I'm on another Guinness and am feeling good about being in Miami.

This was barely an average cigar. If it wasn't for the last third it would be slightly above average. Maybe I smoked it too fast. I'd definitely give it another shot.






This is the official cigar of the Mid Michigan Militia Herfers (MMMers). Many of us enjoy this cigar and have passed out boxes worth of them in hits and RAOKs. Alot of people stocked up when it was known they were soon to be no more. I like the cigar, but as I said, generally with coffee. Dry boxing may have helped some with the bitterness, especailly in a very humid environment.




Cigar #6 is:







http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/g...A-PIMN-400.jpg
Diablo

Re: Blind ten spot review Part Two
 

Let's recap:

#1.
Andy: okay
EEE: meh
Cigar: 5 Vegas limitada 2006

#2.
Andy: liked it
EEE: liked it
Cigar: Alec Bradley Medalist

#3.
Andy: liked it
EEE: hated it
Cigar: 5 Vegas A

#4.
Andy: yard gar (called Gurkha)
EEE: yard gar
Cigar: Gurkha X-Fuerte

#5.
Andy: liked it
EEE: liked it
Cigar: La Cuna no. 85

#6.
Andy:just okay
EEE: just okay
Cigar: Diablo

#7.
Andy:
EEE:
Cigar:

#8.
Andy: really liked it
EEE: meh after first third
Cigar: Por Larranga Cuban Grade

#9.
Andy:
EEE:
Cigar:

#10.
Andy:
EEE: unreviewed due to high humidity
Cigar:

Re: Blind ten spot review Part Two
 

Three more to go. I was hoping to get to it on this three day weekend, but it seems I'm coming down with a cold, which effects my tastebuds greatly. If I reviewed one now, I know it'll just taste like cardboard. Hope this bug doesn't last long. I still can't wait to try out #9.

Re: Blind ten spot review Part Two
 

For #7 and #9, if any of the spectators can guess the cigar before I give the final answer, I'll hit them with a nice fiver.

I'll wait 24 hours from when Andy and E post their reviews before I tell what they are to see if anyone gets it right.

Re: Blind ten spot review Part Two
 

talk about putting the pressure on us to give reviews that define the cigar well enough!!! :)

Re: Blind ten spot review Part Two
 

You guys have been doing a good job so far IMO. I think if people had been guessing, they may have hit one or two by now.

Just trying to add a little something to see interest level on this.

Re: Blind ten spot review Part Two
 

Still have this cold, so no reviews this weekend. Tastebuds are screwed right now.

Re: Blind ten spot review Part Two
 

Perfect time to smoke PIs and Gurkhas! :r

Re: Blind ten spot review Part Two
 

:r

Re: Blind ten spot review Part Two
 

Hey Mark, he has a 1 in 3 chance to hit the Gurkha! And I don't think I even own a PI. Had a couple, tried em, were not my thing.

Re: Blind ten spot review Part Two
 

FWIW. Hooked. :tu Newbie here. Awesome fun and great reviews. This and the orig. thread made me become certified and processed.

Keep it going!

Lack the experience and taste buds to participate in any other way than :wo

O. Smoke

Re: Blind ten spot review Part Two
 

Thanks:tu

I've almost got my tastebuds back, now waiting for the cough to go away. Then I'll be back to review the final three.

Re: Blind ten spot review Part Two
 

O.S., all it takes is a little time and patience to focus on what the flavors mean to you. Sometimes trying unbanded cigars makes you do it, since the preconceptions are taken away. All is left is your own opinion. And in the end, that is all that matters to your personal enjoyment anyways.

Re: Blind ten spot review Part Two
 

guys, sorry for the major dealy here. All of my family is on the West coast and we had a major family issue that took me out there immediately and I am just getting back. I swear I'll have the last of these cigars smoked this weekend.

Re: Blind ten spot review Part Two
 

No problem Bro. Hope everything is okay with the family.

Re: Blind ten spot review Part Two
 

Hope everything is ok, Eric.


I smoked #7 this morning; hope to have the review up tomorrow afternoon.

Re: Blind ten spot review Part Two
 

Cigar #7

http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/pictur...pictureid=2829

Construction: 6.5 x 50 torpedo, dark brown wrapper

Pre-Light Draw: Not much flavor detectable

First Third: The first inch was horrid. Bitterness and ammonia is strong. I was tempted to put this stick down, but I figured I would struggle through so I can give it a full review. Ammonia settled down and was replaced by leathery and earthy flavors. I'm not a big fan of earthy flavor, but at least it wasn't ammonia.

Second Third: Very earthy still, but some sweetness is mixed in as well. The sweetness is almost like a Smores bar. Marshmallow and chocolate are detectable. This cigar isn't bad anymore.

Final Third: Marshmallow and chocolate dissapear and the earthy/leatheriness is the only flavor detectable.

Final Thoughts: Although the first third was horrible, the rest of the cigar wasn't bad. I'm not a fan of earthiness, but I did enjoy the marshmallow and chocolate pairing in the second third. Would I smoke this cigar again? No offense meant, but probably not.



EDIT: I would guess that this is the second Gurkha.

Re: Blind ten spot review Part Two
 

I think I did a full review (not blind) of this cigar a while ago. If I can find it, I'l add it to my notes when I post it's identity.

Glad your feeling better, my friend! :tu

Re: Blind ten spot review Part Two
 

Thank you. Glad to be smoking again.:tu

Re: Blind ten spot review Part Two
 

Smoked my last 2 this weekend.........

#7 (torp)

pre-draw - air, too much, lose draw. Slight tobacco

Initial light: Easy to take hold of the fire, copious amounts of smoke. I get (yes, I'm serious here) the after taste of fruity pebbles cereal. (blech) chalky/sweet

First third - burn is straight, ash is average, very average cigar taste - I actually told my wife as I started this "it's almost like when you first light up a pipe and aren't getting the taste yet - just tobacco" I think the draw was just too loose for my palate's liking.

Second third - for me this was a one dimensional stick, as far as taste goes. "cigar" My wife said that it didn't have much of an aroma either. She is probably a better indicator on the aroma side of my reviews - she often sits with me or goes on walks with me while I smoke and tells me what she thinks (good and bad).

Last third - the stick just isn't eventful. Its fair, and every third/fourth draw I get a pleasant citrusy taste but it never stays. Never had any issues with burn as it stayed straight. The draw stayed too loose for my liking but I would have to have a couple more to see if it was that single stick or something with the make-up of the line.

For me this was barely average which I wouldn't spend more that $3-4 on.

----------------------------------------------------------

#9 (box press)

I instantly think Mayorga when I pull out this small ring gauged box pressed stick. Though I personally don't know if they come in wrappers outside of jet black - which this one wasn't.

Pre-draw - rich tobacco & bitter on the back of my tongue

Initial light - nice. Interesting coffee and dark dark chocolate taste - that definitely coincides with my pre-draw taste.

First third - the ash is super weak on this, falls off at a butterfly's wing flap. Taste has subdued considerably but still get the dark chocolate undertone.

Second third - good burn, horrid ash, becoming less and less chocolate and more bitter.

Last third - purge, draw, ash fall, taste burnt chocolate, repeat ......... though I must have been hypnotized as I literally nubbed this thing down as far as I could go. Hmmm.

Maybe I have two sides of my smoking brain fighting each other on this. One side isn't impressed at all with the ash and just wants to trash it, doesn't like the burnt chocolate -- but the other side finds it interesting and wants to continue to see where it goes......

I'm not sure I'd buy this cigar but definitely would smoke it again if gifted.

Re: Blind ten spot review Part Two
 

Lou,

Thank you very much for the chance to participate in these reviews. It has been fun for me to get back into these. I look forward to more interaction with you good sir.

Re: Blind ten spot review Part Two
 

Your very welcome Eric. You put up some excellent reviews, thanks for being involved. I wish a few of the sticks had been more to your liking, but I know that taste is subjective. I have friends that if they like a cigar, I feel safe buying a box, and others that if they enjoy a particular cigar, I still only buy one to try it first.
There is no right or wrong, only your personal preference that matters in the end. I just enjoy seeing people's take on cigars in this type of setting.

Re: Blind ten spot review Part Two
 

Cigar #9

http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/pictur...pictureid=2850

Construction: 5.5 x42 box-pressed (very square), dark brown wrapper

Pre-light: I honestly forgot to do a pre-light draw.

1st Third: The first bit tasted both bitter and like plain old tobacco. The bitterness remained, but a dark coffee flavor was detectable.

2nd Third: Still bitterness. Dark coffee is behind the bitterness. A nutty flavor is detectable near the end of the second third. Some sort of bitter nut.

Final Third: Still bitter. The nutty flavor is still there, and the coffee returns. Bitterness, nuttiness, and black coffee.

Final Thoughts: The cigar had a bitter taste in the forefront the entire time. The coffee and nutty flavors were nice, but they were behind the bitter flavor. This appearance of this cigar was very attractive, but the bitterness left a bad taste in my mouth.
Would I buy this cigar again? I'd be willing to give it a second shot, as the bitterness may have been exclusive to this single stick.

Re: Blind ten spot review Part Two
 

Other than the uneventfulness, it seems almost as if we smoked two different cigars.

Re: Blind ten spot review Part Two
 

We had about the same experience with this stick.

Re: Blind ten spot review Part Two
 

EEE's take:
#7 (torp)

pre-draw - air, too much, lose draw. Slight tobacco

Initial light: Easy to take hold of the fire, copious amounts of smoke. I get (yes, I'm serious here) the after taste of fruity pebbles cereal. (blech) chalky/sweet

First third - burn is straight, ash is average, very average cigar taste - I actually told my wife as I started this "it's almost like when you first light up a pipe and aren't getting the taste yet - just tobacco" I think the draw was just too loose for my palate's liking.

Second third - for me this was a one dimensional stick, as far as taste goes. "cigar" My wife said that it didn't have much of an aroma either. She is probably a better indicator on the aroma side of my reviews - she often sits with me or goes on walks with me while I smoke and tells me what she thinks (good and bad).

Last third - the stick just isn't eventful. Its fair, and every third/fourth draw I get a pleasant citrusy taste but it never stays. Never had any issues with burn as it stayed straight. The draw stayed too loose for my liking but I would have to have a couple more to see if it was that single stick or something with the make-up of the line.

For me this was barely average which I wouldn't spend more that $3-4 on.


My take a year ago when reviewing the stick:
Have had this cigar before (gifted from FGM). Enjoyed it's unique flavor profile from normal maduros. Lokking forward to this follow up.

Toro cigar, great looking oily wrapper. Wrapper has an earthy scent with the end smelling a little sweet.

Start: Great draw as it's lit with good smoke volume. A little bitter, peppery blast at the very onset that quickly subsides. Soon has the charcoaly flavor with very little sweetness that I remembered. Not something I'd smoke in my rotation, but enjoyable as a change of pace. Nice dry finish.

Mid: Slightly creaminess comes in with the carbony flavor. No sweetness at all. Toro is probably as long of a stick I'd like unless I found a better drink pairing.

Finish: Follows suit but starts to get a little tarry. Burn stayed true with good ash through out. Very nice construction

As I said, a cigar for once in a while to clear your palate. Not one I'd buy a box of, but can see always having a couple around. A great example of an untypical flavor.


Now, does anyone have a guess on what this might be?

Re: Blind ten spot review Part Two
 

I'm still going with Ghurka.


Edit: Now that you mention it, charcoal was in the flavor profile in the first third. Never thought I'd describe a flavor in a cigar as "charcoal", but that is a good description for that flavor.

Re: Blind ten spot review Part Two
 

Okay, no one took a guess on what the exact cigar was, so I'll go ahead with announcing that #7 was:



http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/g...row/cs-uia.jpg

Gurkha Black Puros

Good eye Andy! Both Gurks out of the way, but now only one more to smoke.

And to all that read about the fiver; I didn't mean the crap I sent these two schmucks, I was actually talking five good cigars! :r :D

Re: Blind ten spot review Part Two
 

Both reviews are up for #9. I doubt a guess will happen from what was posted by the reviews. I could say a one word review of this stick, but any cbidder that also posts here would nail it immediately. ;s

I'll wait till tomorrow, and post up on #9.

Re: Blind ten spot review Part Two
 

Nica Libre?

As a matter of fact, I just looked at a pic of one over at CI and it looked exactly like the one I smoked.

If that is what this stick is, CI better take that "tastes like Padron" lie off their site immediately.

Re: Blind ten spot review Part Two
 

That was gonna be my guess as well...

Re: Blind ten spot review Part Two
 

no.

Re: Blind ten spot review Part Two
 

I only had one stick that has lived up to that Padron comment; Camacho Negro. Really enjoyed those, and am mad I didn't stock up more before they went bye bye.

Re: Blind ten spot review Part Two
 

Man, I missed out on that deal when JR had them dirt cheap last year. Beautiful box and a good smoke.

Re: Blind ten spot review Part Two
 

Is there a way to edit our posts after there have been replies? I ask because it would be nice to see the reviews, and unveiling of the stick, be put into the original post. It would be interesting to see them all together like that.

Re: Blind ten spot review Part Two
 

You can only edit posts here within a fifteen minute window. When Lou reveals the stick, I guess he could cut and paste our reviews on top of it, or just multi-quote our reviews.

Re: Blind ten spot review Part Two
 

Originally Posted by EEE

#9 (box press)

I instantly think Mayorga when I pull out this small ring gauged box pressed stick. Though I personally don't know if they come in wrappers outside of jet black - which this one wasn't.

Pre-draw - rich tobacco & bitter on the back of my tongue

Initial light - nice. Interesting coffee and dark dark chocolate taste - that definitely coincides with my pre-draw taste.

First third - the ash is super weak on this, falls off at a butterfly's wing flap. Taste has subdued considerably but still get the dark chocolate undertone.

Second third - good burn, horrid ash, becoming less and less chocolate and more bitter.

Last third - purge, draw, ash fall, taste burnt chocolate, repeat ......... though I must have been hypnotized as I literally nubbed this thing down as far as I could go. Hmmm.

Maybe I have two sides of my smoking brain fighting each other on this. One side isn't impressed at all with the ash and just wants to trash it, doesn't like the burnt chocolate -- but the other side finds it interesting and wants to continue to see where it goes......

I'm not sure I'd buy this cigar but definitely would smoke it again if gifted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by andysutherland
Cigar #9



Construction: 5.5 x42 box-pressed (very square), dark brown wrapper

Pre-light: I honestly forgot to do a pre-light draw.

1st Third: The first bit tasted both bitter and like plain old tobacco. The bitterness remained, but a dark coffee flavor was detectable.

2nd Third: Still bitterness. Dark coffee is behind the bitterness. A nutty flavor is detectable near the end of the second third. Some sort of bitter nut.

Final Third: Still bitter. The nutty flavor is still there, and the coffee returns. Bitterness, nuttiness, and black coffee.

Final Thoughts: The cigar had a bitter taste in the forefront the entire time. The coffee and nutty flavors were nice, but they were behind the bitter flavor. This appearance of this cigar was very attractive, but the bitterness left a bad taste in my mouth.
Would I buy this cigar again? I'd be willing to give it a second shot, as the bitterness may have been exclusive to this single stick.

We had about the same experience with this stick.


Sorry you guys didn't enjoy cigar #9. This is one that I've liked, and picked up a box of the coronas. Not my favorite size, but was hoping they would work for this review. On cbid, when someone says,"mmmmmmmmmmmm...." they are referring to cigar #9:


http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/g...banCarrera.jpg
Estaban Carrera (picture is of natural, the reviewed cigar was a maduro).

Re: Blind ten spot review Part Two
 

No way! Maybe I just got a bad stick. I love these! Never had one with that much bitterness before.

Re: Blind ten spot review Part Two
 

I have never had that stick before.... Like I said - I would try it again.

Again - Lou thank you for this opportunity. Greatly appreciated.

Re: Blind ten spot review Part Two
 

:tpd:
Thank you to both of you for both opportunities.

I'll try to get to the last one today. No later than tomorrow.

Re: Blind ten spot review Part Two
 

Cigar #10 (Final Review)

http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/pictur...pictureid=2861

Construction: 6x56-58(ish), light/medium brown wrapper

Pre-Light: Tobacco taste, smells like a tobacco barn

1st Third: Very peppery with a slight bit of sweetness in the background. Pepper and sweetness start to blend into a spicy-sweet cinnamon flavor.

2nd Third: Cinnamon is gone. Pepper returns to the forefront. Just pepper. Cinnamon flavor returns near the middle of the second third. Pepper and spice. The pepper is strong. Smoking this cigar is almost like tongue bite from a pipe.

Final Third: Pepper, pepper, and more pepper. I nubbed it!

Final Thoughts: I enjoyed this cigar immensely. Full-bodied, spicy, and peppery. I'd love to get my hands on more of these.

I would guess that this stick was a DPG of some sort.