Re: Pete Rose, 20 years later...HOF or not?
 

That sews up the "you gotta be a good human" to be in the HOF argument pretty well. :)
People are people.
I play the game like Pete plays the game, always did. He's who taught me.
Not a day did he not give 1000%.
I think he might even love playing ball more than I do. I doubt it though.
Last summer I played softball and stroked two homers with a broken back and hadn't picked up a bat in six months. I also snagged a diving liner at short and had to have the second and third basemen get me off the ground.
I laid in bed for three days after that.
It was worth every minute. :D

Re: Pete Rose, 20 years later...HOF or not?
 

Most of us who watch and enjoy sports do so under the assumption that the games are on the up and up. Otherwise all sports would be like professional wrestling. Sure, players will try lots of stuff, chemical and whatever to try to improve their performance, but I think most of us can at least accept that they are not fixing the games, they are trying to improve.

I do not think the same can be said of a gambler. All a gambler cares about is that the team he bet on ends up on top. Pete maintains that he never bet against his team, of course at one time he maintained that he didn't bet at all. Clearly he cannot be believed.

I do not dispute his many accomplishments and am very leary of applying criterion of things done outside of baseball to admittance into the Hall, but in this case, because gambling goes to the very integrity of the game, I think he shouuld be banned.

Re: Pete Rose, 20 years later...HOF or not?
 

I think that he should be let in the day after his ban expires! I wouldn't lift the ban which was set for "life" not forever.

Re: Pete Rose, 20 years later...HOF or not?
 

So gambling goes to the very integrity of the game but steroids do not?

Disagree.

Re: Pete Rose, 20 years later...HOF or not?
 

:tpd:

I agree....

The rules are supposedly posted in every club house since the Black Sox scandal. He walked by them every day. I have trouble putting up with liars...

Re: Pete Rose, 20 years later...HOF or not?
 

No. ****ing. ****.

:tu

Re: Pete Rose, 20 years later...HOF or not?
 

4,000 + reasons he should be in the HOF.....YES!

Re: Pete Rose, 20 years later...HOF or not?
 

I voted that he should be in the HOF.

However, if he is voted in that sets a very sad precedence for the jackasses who took every drug and hormone they could get their hands on just to be something that they never would have been without CHEATING.

The dudes who take drugs and hormones shouldn't be allowed. Period.
Hard work Talent, and Hustle is what make you a Hall of Famer. Not Science.

Pete had all of that, unfortunately he did break rules that shouldn't be bent for anyone.
If ya bend the rules for someone, ya got to do it for everyone.

Sad, but true.

It woulda been nice if he didn't get caught.

Re: Pete Rose, 20 years later...HOF or not?
 

the discussion on the steriod users is interesting when talking about the hall of fame. The owners and commissioners had to know it was happening - just look at the players - and they chose to stick their heads in the sand and let it continue. When folks got caught, they are all up in arms. I just don't know.

And now talk about how all of the baseball world talks about pitch count - are there any modern era pitchers that should be put in the hall of fame? My thought is no - Guys like Nolan Ryan, Catfish Hunter and Sandy Koufax threw more complete games in one season than the most dominate pitcher today will have in his career! Figure that one out if you can.

Re: Pete Rose, 20 years later...HOF or not?
 

You don't have to take Pete's word on that one.
A lawyer investigated Pete's gambling (The Dowd Report). Found 100's of instances of gambling. Not one bet was ever placed against his team.

Re: Pete Rose, 20 years later...HOF or not?
 

I voted no. Though i'm not sure I can really offer a fair opinion. He retired when I was 4, I never saw him play. I grew up with Pete Rose the joke. Gambler, liar, hustler, chicken suit, do anything for a buck Pete Rose. I just can't see putting such a low life next to guys like Cal Ripken or Hank Aaaron, who weren't just great ball players, but real ambassadors for the sport.

Re: Pete Rose, 20 years later...HOF or not?
 

:tpd:


I might agree with those who want him to finish the lifetime ban, as long as he gets inducted the year that he dies. His record as a player deserves to be honored. How can the greatest hitter in the game not be recognized in Cooperstown? As long as he gets in, I'm fine with it. I just hope I'm around to see it.

I will admit that I'm very biased on this subject, as I'm a die-hard Reds fan. We're known for three things: being the first professional baseball team, the Big Red Machine, and Charlie Hustle. (No offense to all of the other great Reds players through the years that weren't a part of the BRM: Larkin, Sabo, Davis, F. Robinson, O'Neill, and countless others.)

Re: Pete Rose, 20 years later...HOF or not?
 

Actually 4 things Andy. Marge Schott. :r

Re: Pete Rose, 20 years later...HOF or not?
 

In, no question.

Re: Pete Rose, 20 years later...HOF or not?
 

No!

great player but let's try and keep high standards SOMEWHERE!

Rob :tpd:

Re: Pete Rose, 20 years later...HOF or not?
 

I feel sympathy for the guy. I've got weaknesses and I've done things that run the gamut from "silly" to "stupid" to "hey, that guy needs his a$$ whipped for that sh%t". However, I do believe that standards need to be met - we shouldn't lower standards to help people meet them.

He was a great player and his record speaks for itself. If I had a vote I'd vote for a literal interpretation of the "lifetime" ban and allow them to vote on his admission posthumously.

;s Sorry Pete, you were great, but you screwed the pooch. :shrug :(

Re: Pete Rose, 20 years later...HOF or not?
 

if they let vick back in the NFL after what he did, Rose's offences pale to compare. LET HIM IN!

Re: Pete Rose, 20 years later...HOF or not?
 

I saw Pete play many, many times at Dodger Stadium.

I was there the day he turned around and flipped off the entire left field pavilion. That one didn't make the news.

Letting him in to the Hall of Fame cheapens the institution and degrades the honorable players that have, and will be, admitted.

I vote no.

Only my personal opinion, not worth much.

Re: Pete Rose, 20 years later...HOF or not?
 

It is worth as much as any of ours. :)

But what about the less than honorable members of the Hall?...there are quite a few of them.

Re: Pete Rose, 20 years later...HOF or not?
 

Agreed - some aren't worthy and shouldn't be there. But I can't go back in time and vote in a friendly poll prior to their induction, now can I? :r

Re: Pete Rose, 20 years later...HOF or not?
 

Fair enough. You against any steroid users making the Hall, I assume. :)

Re: Pete Rose, 20 years later...HOF or not?
 

There is no doubt there are a number of jerks and @$$holes already in the HOF. There is also no doubt that Pete Rose had the numbers to warrant first-ballot selection. However, rules are rules. If the rules are changed to satisfy Rose, or his fans, then why should not rules be changed to suit other violators, whatever they may be guilty of? Do you really want to open that door?

Did Pete Rose earn a spot in the HOF on the field? Yes. Did Pete Rose lose that right due to his actions? Yes. Should he be in the Hall? If you are willing to change the rules to allow others entry, past or future, no matter what their crime, then vote yes - otherwise, vote no. I vote no.

As for steroid use, it is and was definitely cheating - but until quite recently, it was not against the rules as written. Is this fair? Probably not, but that's the fact. Like it, hate it, whatever - unless this violation is grandfathered in, you have no choice but to accept it. As always, just :2

:ss

Re: Pete Rose, 20 years later...HOF or not?
 

What about all the players from the 60's on who used the geenies? They could be considered PED and they were also illegal.

Back on topic though. I still think Rose should be part of the HOF for his playing career. He was retired from baseball as a player. What about someone who was in the HOF as a player already and was now involved in baseball and had the same issue? Should he have is HOF status taken away?

Re: Pete Rose, 20 years later...HOF or not?
 

Tough question, and the honest answer is I'm not sure. I'm not in the least hung up over what someone wants to do with their body, although I'm not sure it's fair to compare a juicer to a non-juicer when it comes to setting records. I wouldn't think it's fair to compare men and women when it comes to the record books either.

If someone wants to juice up, it doesn't bother me any. (Lord knows the things I've subjected my own body to over the years.) I do think they should come clean and admit it, though.

So, if they are honest enough to admit they used steroids, I suppose I'm basically in favor of letting them in, with a mention that they used roids. Then the future generations can make up their own minds.

How about Shoeless Joe? In or out?

Re: Pete Rose, 20 years later...HOF or not?
 

My opinion? In. Guilty by association, not because of personal wrong-doing.

Re: Pete Rose, 20 years later...HOF or not?
 

I agree.

Re: Pete Rose, 20 years later...HOF or not?
 

After thinking about this for a couple of days, I voted no. But I am not against him being enshrined if the Vet's committee votes him in. I think they are a much better judge that the sportswriters in this situation. His stats as a player speak for themselves, but his actions as a manager and his willingness to lie for so many years leaves me with concerns.

As for the PED users, I think that is a more difficult issue. Many used before bans were enacted, many are suspected. Many are shown to have used under testing standards that are not acceptable today. Do we just throw out the past 25 years under assumption that all the records are tainted?

Re: Pete Rose, 20 years later...HOF or not?
 

I also agree. The players involved even stated that Shoeless Joe did not take any money.

Re: Pete Rose, 20 years later...HOF or not?
 

There may not have been any MLB bans but steroids were still an illegal item to be using without a legitimate perscription from a doctor. They still broke the law.

Re: Pete Rose, 20 years later...HOF or not?
 

I dont believe that would disqualify a player under the current rules of the Hall.
Pete was banned due to a violation of the morals clause. Same reason Willie Mays was prevented from working for a NJ casino, associating with gamblers is specifically prohibited.

Re: Pete Rose, 20 years later...HOF or not?
 

As do I. The evidence against him is questionable.

Re: Pete Rose, 20 years later...HOF or not?
 

As far as Shoeless goes, he was dumber than a box of rocks. He had one of the greatest series of all times and he is still not allowed in the Hall. BS if you ask me.

However, I think that the steriod era of the late 90's/ early 00's should be in the HOF. This was the single thing that pulled Baseball out of the crapper. Everyone remembers the 5000 or less fans in the stadiums until McGwire/ Sosa race. EVERYONE knew they were juiced, but no one cared because the fans were flocking back into the stadiums.

Re: Pete Rose, 20 years later...HOF or not?
 

Pete did apologize for betting on baseball, just not as sincerely as people would have liked. I loved watching Pete play the game. How many doubles did he get out of singles that he hustled on? The 44 game hit streak. He was one of the best players of all time. That is what he should be in the hall for.
Granted he was lying at the time, but I still like the way he made Jim Gray look like an a$$hat.

Let's not forget that he was also voted onto the all century team. One of only 30 players on that list. That list came out after his ban.

Re: Pete Rose, 20 years later...HOF or not?
 

I believe that is the only way he can get in, Bob, as they did not "stop the clock" regarding his 15 years of eligibilty during the ban. :)

Re: Pete Rose, 20 years later...HOF or not?
 

I voted yes.

Re: Pete Rose, 20 years later...HOF or not?
 

Yes. Its up to the Vets committee. I said this meaning that if the Vets approve him being in their hall then its kind of like your mom allowing a friend in who you dont like. Its their house.

Re: Pete Rose, 20 years later...HOF or not?
 

Word, My Brother. :tu

Re: Pete Rose, 20 years later...HOF or not?
 

Personally based on his credentials as a ball player I 100% think the guy belongs in the hall. He was one hell of a baseball player who played the game the way it was meant to be played-balls to the wall, you go hard on every play. Now having said that I have met the guy and hes a prick.

I was in Cooperstown a number of years ago with my dad and we were coming out of a restroom of the shop where Rose signs stuff every year at the hall of fame inductions and he was right outside the door kind of hanging out. I was probably 16 or so at the time and asked him if he would sign a baseball I had in my pocket. He said to me "do you have a ticket?" I asked him what for and his response was "if you don't have a ticket I won't sign anything" Well the ticket was for 40 bucks to get a ball signed later in the day.

Re: Pete Rose, 20 years later...HOF or not?
 

you asshat, I didn't get the reference at first, :r:r

Re: Pete Rose, 20 years later...HOF or not?
 

:tpd:

Needs to be put to bed and voted in.

Re: Pete Rose, 20 years later...HOF or not?
 

not finding evidence of his having placed bets against his team is not the same thing as saying he didn't do it.:2

Re: Pete Rose, 20 years later...HOF or not?
 

If he is a prick because he signs things for money, then 95% of ex-ballplayers must be pricks. ;)

:r

Re: Pete Rose, 20 years later...HOF or not?
 

I was referring to the fact that he didn't even take a second to sign a ball for me or engage in a quick conversation with me and my dad. Rose is my dads favorite baseball player and the only thing Rose said to us was do you have a ticket. I am all for paying for an autograph as it one of my hobbies but not taking one minute and signing a ball for a kid in the back of a building where nobody else was around is crap.

Re: Pete Rose, 20 years later...HOF or not?
 

I had a similar disappointing situation when I met my childhood hero as an adult (Stan Mikita), so I apologize for minimizing your story. :)

Re: Pete Rose, 20 years later...HOF or not?
 

The worst I saw was Scottie Pippin, the azzhat. walked past all the kids, looked at a handicapped kid in a wheelchair, and said "I dont do autographs".
Posted via Mobile Device

Re: Pete Rose, 20 years later...HOF or not?
 

You should consider yourself to have never been graced by Barry Bonds.
I had the privelage to meet him on a number of occasions.
I'm not sure what a$$hole college he went to, but he definately finished at the top of his class. :tu

Re: Pete Rose, 20 years later...HOF or not?
 

I think it is Cali players. I had Bud Black tell me he didnt know how to sign. My dad then asked him how he signed his paycheck. He flicked us off and went to the dugout getting booed.
Posted via Mobile Device

Re: Pete Rose, 20 years later...HOF or not?
 

IN for his play on the field.

Re: Pete Rose, 20 years later...HOF or not?
 

I think this may help put the matter in some kind of perspective.

There is only one rule in regards to criteria for membership in the Baseball HOF, and that is Rule Five:

Voting shall be based upon the player's record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played

Link - HOF Rules

Re: Pete Rose, 20 years later...HOF or not?
 

It really doesn't though, because there are many HOF'ers with what I would consider questionable character or integrity.