Originally Posted by BC-Axeman (Post 301412)

I wouldn't take these comedians seriously. We have top politicians, even presidential candidates call our soldiers lazy, stupid losers who had no future so they joined the military. This is how Jon Stewart portrayed them in order to bash Bush. Al Franken has done the same. One Congressman claimed our Marines were GUILTY of MURDER and the hadn't even been tried! Our leading newspapers propagate these stereotypes. These guys on Red Eye were cracking jokes about soldiers asking for time off. That is pretty funny. They did take it too far, but there are far worse things, especially in Canada, to worry about than some almost nonexistent comedians who no one had ever heard about before.

Originally Posted by RBOrrell (Post 301371)

I am deeply offended by not just this particular episode, but the more deeply rooted stereotypes and ignorances that are the real reason that they said these things in the first place. While I don't want to appear hypocritical (and in no way am I trying to accuse any BOTL here), in my experiences, the "worldlyness" of most citizens of the USA is below that of most other countries. Why is that? They don't have to be because they are as powerful as they are. However, the ignorance of Canada (or any other country for that manner) bites them once in a while like this particular show.

I have no idea who these 5 people are. I have never heard of them, except I recall the "comedian" was on Last Comic Standing in the past, I guess that makes him an expert in international affairs. They clearly show that they have no idea of this country, and they are no better than the people you see driving across the border in July with skis strapped to their cars looking for the ski hills!

The sad thing is, we really can't do anything about it. A "boycott" of Fox or it's advertisers would not be effective because technically, the Canadian audience is not part of their demographic and our dollars are not a factor. I don't watch any Fox shows anyways, there is nothing there worth watching (cartoons? give me a break).

I get sick and tired of watching the sterotypes of this country portrayed on US-based TV.

This country has a long history of participation in international military actions. We were participants in the Boer War and then both World Wars - way before the US in both cases I may add - Korea, the first Gulf war and lately Afghanistan. How many Americans know about the Canadians that enlisted, fought and died in the 1960's and 1970's in Vietnam? We invented the PeaceKeeping arm of the UN and spent many years doing just that. We are a country of less than 30 million people. At the end of WW II, we had the 4th largest navy in the world. We do not shy away from a fight - as long as it's justified!

The more I think about these jerks on Fox the angrier I get. I would suggest to anyone to pick up a book on Canadian history, I think you would be surprised at what you read.

Originally Posted by ActionAndy (Post 301565)

Who cares. You didn't know who the comedians were, they weren't on your radar. You're a grown man. Your country is full of grown men. So act like it and ignore idiots.

Originally Posted by zonedar (Post 301554)

BTW, to the Canadians and other allies, Thanks for being there for your friends.

Originally Posted by ActionAndy (Post 301565)

Who cares. You didn't know who the comedians were, they weren't on your radar. You're a grown man. Your country is full of grown men. So act like it and ignore idiots.

Originally Posted by RBOrrell (Post 301594)

Thanks you for such an excellent post. You're right, they were not on my radar, and why should a statement about a Canadian Armed Forces General be on theirs? It's attitudes like those portrayed on the show in question and your attitude here, explains why the US is not held in the highest regard around the world.

Originally Posted by pnoon (Post 301574)

Let's keep the personal comments toward Asylum members out of the discussion here.

Originally Posted by RBOrrell (Post 301594)

Thanks you for such an excellent post. You're right, they were not on my radar, and why should a statement about a Canadian Armed Forces General be on theirs? It's attitudes like those portrayed on the show in question and your attitude here, explains why the US is not held in the highest regard around the world.

Originally Posted by RBOrrell (Post 301594)

Thanks you for such an excellent post. You're right, they were not on my radar, and why should a statement about a Canadian Armed Forces General be on theirs? It's attitudes like those portrayed on the show in question and your attitude here, explains why the US is not held in the highest regard around the world.

Originally Posted by ChicagoWhiteSox (Post 300616)

But I think there is a reason that FOX News leads all other news channels.

Originally Posted by zonedar (Post 301554)

BTW, to the Canadians and other allies, Thanks for being there for your friends.

Originally Posted by Seanohue (Post 301569)

Do what I do; don't watch TV. I think it's been 9 months since I've seen a live TV program.

Originally Posted by ActionAndy (Post 301622)

...let me clarify: I was not trying to insult you. I'm trying to say this: Don't let people that don't matter matter. Getting deeply offended by words gives the speaker power. Do not give him that power by reacting.

Originally Posted by RBOrrell (Post 301371)

I am deeply offended by not just this particular episode, but the more deeply rooted stereotypes and ignorances that are the real reason that they said these things in the first place. While I don't want to appear hypocritical (and in no way am I trying to accuse any BOTL here), in my experiences, the "worldlyness" of most citizens of the USA is below that of most other countries. Why is that? They don't have to be because they are as powerful as they are. However, the ignorance of Canada (or any other country for that manner) bites them once in a while like this particular show.

Originally Posted by mithrilG60 (Post 301631)

There are very very few news broadcasts around the world that are unbiased enough for me to give any form of serious attention to and Fox is certainly not one of them. The BBC and CBC are really the only ones that report equally on all sides of matters of real significance. Besides those I tend to try and read 3 - 4 online newsprint sources; one with a very left wing slant, one with a very right wing and 1 - 2 that are moderate. While I personally am centre-left by Canadian standards (which would probably be very left wing by American standard), I feel that if I don't see the news from both the far-left and far-right view points I can't possible make an informed decision on the reality of the situation. That kind of balance is what's completely missing in almost all media news whether the outlets are American, Canadian, etc.



Don't equate entertainment value with actual news reporting. News is meant to be informative, well balanced, unbiased and factual yet all those hallmarks come a distant second to shock/entertainment value on all the US cable news channels (Fox, CNN, etc.) as well has many of the major network programs. That's also certainly not a purely American phenomenon as the same unfortunate trend applies to many of the equivalent news programs running on Canadian networks.

While the entertainment-news programs do give you some idea of current events, they also ALL contain underlying motivations that skew the reporting and as a result the truth they portray. Always there is an underlying financial motivation as ramping up the entertainment value of the news cast provides more revenue in the form of advertising.

While the financial motivation is unfortunate, what's scary is the underlying political motivations. The constant blind and unquestioning (aka biased?) support given to the Bush administration by both Fox and CNN are a prime example of that. Regardless of a journalist's personal political views or leanings their job is to critically report on and question the actions of political leadership. The media play a very important role in keeping politician's honest and on course by holding their decisions and actions up to public scrutiny, and since the general public's perceptions are formed almost entirely on what the media tells them, the dangers of the media giving any administration carte blanche are very high.

Originally Posted by BC-Axeman (Post 301724)

Dogs set the standard for integrity. We should all hope to be so true.

Originally Posted by mithrilG60 (Post 301631)

There are very very few news broadcasts around the world that are unbiased enough for me to give any form of serious attention to and Fox is certainly not one of them. The BBC and CBC are really the only ones that report equally on all sides of matters of real significance. Besides those I tend to try and read 3 - 4 online newsprint sources; one with a very left wing slant, one with a very right wing and 1 - 2 that are moderate. While I personally am centre-left by Canadian standards (which would probably be very left wing by American standard), I feel that if I don't see the news from both the far-left and far-right view points I can't possible make an informed decision on the reality of the situation. That kind of balance is what's completely missing in almost all media news whether the outlets are American, Canadian, etc.



Don't equate entertainment value with actual news reporting. News is meant to be informative, well balanced, unbiased and factual yet all those hallmarks come a distant second to shock/entertainment value on all the US cable news channels (Fox, CNN, etc.) as well has many of the major network programs. That's also certainly not a purely American phenomenon as the same unfortunate trend applies to many of the equivalent news programs running on Canadian networks.

While the entertainment-news programs do give you some idea of current events, they also ALL contain underlying motivations that skew the reporting and as a result the truth they portray. Always there is an underlying financial motivation as ramping up the entertainment value of the news cast provides more revenue in the form of advertising.

While the financial motivation is unfortunate, what's scary is the underlying political motivations. The constant blind and unquestioning (aka biased?) support given to the Bush administration by both Fox and CNN are a prime example of that. Regardless of a journalist's personal political views or leanings their job is to critically report on and question the actions of political leadership. The media play a very important role in keeping politician's honest and on course by holding their decisions and actions up to public scrutiny, and since the general public's perceptions are formed almost entirely on what the media tells them, the dangers of the media giving any administration carte blanche are very high.

Originally Posted by BC-Axeman (Post 301724)

Dogs set the standard for integrity. We should all hope to be so true.

Originally Posted by spectrrr (Post 301636)

The rare TV shows I'm interested in watching, I stream.

Originally Posted by ChicagoWhiteSox (Post 301838)

FOX News is a news channel. They give news. Some of there shows more than others. But the main point is they give news. News that is by far more balanced than any other national news channel. If I am equating FOX news as entertainment, then where do people get their national news? FOX news leads all national news. But if you believe that the majority are watching FOX news for entertainment, then i ask again, where do they get there news from on TV?


With regards to the second bold highlight, again, some news channels skew more than others. I believe that FOX news is the most balanced of them all:2 That is why the majority of Americans wanting news turns to FOX news. If they didnt like FOX news, they wouldnt watch it. If they wanted entertainment, they would watch Jon Stewart. If they wanted far skewed news, they would watch msnbc. But the numbers dont lie. People are watching FOX news for balanced news.:2

Originally Posted by mithrilG60 (Post 302083)

Or just download them...... there's no commercials at all then ;)



None of that really discounts my point though. Every American newscast I've ever seen, and most Canadian ones as well, are more entertainment and less news. When I say "entertainment" I'm not talking about the satirical comedy produced in a quasi-newscast format that people like Jon Stewart or Rick Mercer produce. I'm talking about the fact that there's more emphasis on the presentation value of what they're saying than the actual substance of the content or veracity of their reporting. Compared to the reporting that comes out of BBC WorldNews or CBC's The National, FoxNews is primarily an entertainment channel and unfortunately one that's regarded as not much more than a bad joke by much of the world (I'll take your word for it that it is taken seriously within the US).

I find it honestly very scary how many people form their world opinions based on the reporting of syndicated network news programs. The fact that most people have forgotten how to think for themselves if it's not presented to them in a flashy yet concise 30 second soundbite puts a HUGE amount of power in the hands of a small few that are motivated only by ratings and are therefore easily corrupted to the agenda of a small minority.

Originally Posted by Rockestone (Post 302139)

B B C = Boring!

There is nothing wrong with adding a little spice to the presentation of the news as long as the product being delivered is NEWS!

:2

Originally Posted by Rockestone (Post 302139)

B B C = Boring!

There is nothing wrong with adding a little spice to the presentation of the news as long as the product being delivered is NEWS!

:2

Originally Posted by kaisersozei (Post 299882)

I've never this "Red Eye" segment, but they look like a bunch of stoned out jokers trying to get a rise out of people, not too credible if you ask me

Originally Posted by mithrilG60 (Post 302145)

The highlighted portion is the key right there. Sadly it's still not stacking up too well in Fox's favour....

It's also a pretty pathetic commentary when people first have to be entertained in order to be informed. A large part of the reason why the BBC or CBC is so much better is precisely because they assume that they're dealing with an adult audience that doesn't need to be distracted by showmanship in order to keep their attention. Instead they just concentrate on digging up and reporting the facts. I'd rather have to think for myself than be bottle fed some moronic pundit's view on the world as if it were either news or fact :2

Originally Posted by 14holestogie (Post 302075)

Fox fair and balanced? Yeah, OK. :)

About as balanced as MSNBC.

I am a little more unbalanced than my therapist thinks, I guess. ;)

Originally Posted by Rockestone (Post 302154)

Your problem is that you feel like if it's not boring it's not real news. You are wrong. I'm sorry that you are that narrow minded.

Originally Posted by pnoon (Post 302167)

I've said it before in this thread and I'll say it again.

Debate/discuss the issues. Keep the personal insults to yourselves.

Originally Posted by Rockestone (Post 302173)

Sorry Pnoon. :(

Got a little carried away. I should count to 10 before I post.;)

Originally Posted by andysutherland (Post 302158)

Fox is fair and balanced. It balances the scale with MSNBC.:)

Originally Posted by 14holestogie (Post 302075)

Fox fair and balanced? Yeah, OK. :)

About as balanced as MSNBC.

I am a little more unbalanced than my therapist thinks, I guess. ;)

Originally Posted by mithrilG60 (Post 302145)

The highlighted portion is the key right there. Sadly it's still not stacking up too well in Fox's favour....
It's also a pretty pathetic commentary when people first have to be entertained in order to be informed. A large part of the reason why the BBC or CBC is so much better is precisely because they assume that they're dealing with an adult audience that doesn't need to be distracted by showmanship in order to keep their attention. Instead they just concentrate on digging up and reporting the facts. I'd rather have to think for myself than be bottle fed some over-opinionated and under-educated pundit's myopic view on the world as if it were either news or fact :2

Originally Posted by mithrilG60 (Post 302083)

Or just download them...... there's no commercials at all then ;)

Originally Posted by mithrilG60 (Post 302083)

None of that really discounts my point though. Every American newscast I've ever seen, and most Canadian ones as well, are more entertainment and less news. When I say "entertainment" I'm not talking about the satirical comedy produced in a quasi-newscast format that people like Jon Stewart or Rick Mercer produce. I'm talking about the fact that there's more emphasis on the presentation value of what they're saying than the actual substance of the content or veracity of their reporting. Compared to the reporting that comes out of BBC WorldNews or CBC's The National, FoxNews is primarily an entertainment channel and unfortunately one that's regarded as not much more than a bad joke by much of the world (I'll take your word for it that it is taken seriously within the US).

I find it honestly very scary how many people form their world opinions based on the reporting of syndicated network news programs. The fact that most people have forgotten how to think for themselves if it's not presented to them in a flashy yet concise 30 second soundbite puts a HUGE amount of power in the hands of a small few that are motivated only by ratings and are therefore easily corrupted to the agenda of a small minority.

Originally Posted by Rockestone (Post 302139)

B B C = Boring!

There is nothing wrong with adding a little spice to the presentation of the news as long as the product being delivered is NEWS!

Originally Posted by Rockestone (Post 302154)

I reiterate, it does not matter the presentation as long as you are being delivered the news. You prefer some stuff shirt with a monotone voice reading off of a sheet of paper. I prefer a more high paced presentation that doesn't cause drool to form at the corners of my mouth.

Originally Posted by spectrrr (Post 302411)

*whistles innocently* http://www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/angel/angel04.gif It's a public forum :tg

Originally Posted by ChicagoWhiteSox (Post 302303)

FOX doenst give news? Last time I watched FOX, it was news. And i wasnt entertained by the news they were giving.

Originally Posted by Rockestone (Post 302154)

I reiterate, it does not matter the presentation as long as you are being delivered the news. You prefer some stuff shirt with a monotone voice reading off of a sheet of paper. I prefer a more high paced presentation that doesn't cause drool to form at the corners of my mouth.

Once again, it's my opinion.

Originally Posted by mithrilG60 (Post 302471)

Downloading copyrighted materials such as dvd/blu-ray movies and music which is not made publicly available without a purchase cost is different, however there's nothing wrong/illegal with downloading tv programing. It's already public domain since it's being broadcast on open airwaves which means copyright doesn't apply unless you in turn are trying to resell/profit from it.

Originally Posted by mithrilG60 (Post 302471)

Technically me telling you that the sun rose in the east and Tom Cruise is a Scientologist classifieds as "news" too, that doesn't mean actually news.

It's not news if it's not investigated and reported in an open unbiased manner and Fox isn't particularly well noted for practicing that style of journalism. At least outside the US, they're known more for being the biased public mouth piece of the Bush Administration's policy wonks than for reputable reporting. All things considered, being perceived as the propaganda dept for an extremely unpopular president is hardly a ringing endorsement of your journalism integrity. Fox as ALOT of work to do if they want to salvage their reputation as a serious news organization, most of the world considers then naught more than a bad joke.

Originally Posted by spectrrr (Post 302667)

*envisions a warning from Peter in his future*

Originally Posted by mithrilG60 (Post 302471)

It's not news if it's not investigated and reported in an open unbiased manner and Fox isn't particularly well noted for practicing that style of journalism. At least outside the US, they're known more for being the biased public mouth piece of the Bush Administration's policy wonks than for reputable reporting. All things considered, being perceived as the propaganda dept for an extremely unpopular president is hardly a ringing endorsement of your journalism integrity. Fox as ALOT of work to do if they want to salvage their reputation as a serious news organization, most of the world considers then naught more than a bad joke.

Originally Posted by ChicagoWhiteSox (Post 302278)

How is FOX not fair? Or balanced? Please explain.

Originally Posted by spectrrr (Post 302667)

1) That FOX is biased towards the right. My response: no question, you are correct. Just as the rest of the networks are equally biased towards the left. Don't hate on FOX for that unless you also plan on hating on the other networks for being biased the other way.



2) That FOX does not actually broadcast well investigated and reported news in an unbiased manner. My response: YUP, no argument there. just don't forget all the other networks. Just cause a network broadcasts the news you like to hear doesn't make it any more accurate than the network that broadcasts the news you don't like to hear. In reality, I don't think there is a single USA based network that broadcasts FAIR, UNBIASED, ACCURATE news. "left", "right", doesn't matter... a different still sh!t, with it's perfume sprayed on it.

Originally Posted by Bear (Post 302658)

While I agree that news being delivered in a dry, pretentious manner gets old fast and doesn't serve it's viewership. The same could be said of the polar opposite (Naked News anyone?).

I'm not familiar with Fox. I also don't watch CNBC, BBC, ABC, CBS or NBC as my main source for televised news so I will refrain from commenting on the quality of their material. I'm Canadian and as such I have access to a great Publicly owned network called the CBC. They have great National news content (The National), do a good job of presenting a Coast to Coast view of the issues and make a concerted effort to remain unaffiliated to any one Political Party.

I really enjoy watching the news and reading the newspaper (Toronto Star), but I also don't rely exclusively on either of them to get the whole story. When there's an issue that I feel strongly about and that I find I need to know more about I research the topic.

What I'm getting at I guess is that the media / medium can't (or at least shouldn't) be the sole method of educating one's self on how our deepest opinions are formed. :2

Oh, and the four clowns who caused the uproar...? asshats (IMO of course ;) ).

Originally Posted by Rockestone (Post 302748)

I agree. You should not rely on only one news source for your information. My comes from radio, newspapers (until they shut down!) and then television...in that order.
:tu

Originally Posted by mithrilG60 (Post 302471)

Technically me telling you that the sun rose in the east and Tom Cruise is a Scientologist classifieds as "news" too, that doesn't mean actually news.

It's not news if it's not investigated and reported in an open unbiased manner and Fox isn't particularly well noted for practicing that style of journalism. At least outside the US, they're known more for being the biased public mouth piece of the Bush Administration's policy wonks than for reputable reporting. All things considered, being perceived as the propaganda dept for an extremely unpopular president is hardly a ringing endorsement of your journalism integrity. Fox as ALOT of work to do if they want to salvage their reputation as a serious news organization, most of the world considers then naught more than a bad joke.

Originally Posted by spectrrr (Post 302667)

2) That FOX does not actually broadcast well investigated and reported news in an unbiased manner. My response: YUP, no argument there. just don't forget all the other networks. Just cause a network broadcasts the news you like to hear doesn't make it any more accurate than the network that broadcasts the news you don't like to hear. In reality, I don't think there is a single USA based network that broadcasts FAIR, UNBIASED, ACCURATE news. "left", "right", doesn't matter... its still sh!t, with a different perfume sprayed on it.

Originally Posted by TheRiddick (Post 302720)

Funny thing is that most who tell you that FOX is biased and not reputable will also tell you that they themselves never watched it, they simply "heard" from their friend, who heard from his pregnant girlfriend, who heard from her way too liberal college professor who got her pregnant, who heard ir from his boyfriend, who heard... You get the picture. Kids play this game called "broken phone", too bad so many adults still do.
You're absolutely right about perception, its the keyword to this discussion.

I start my day with various Russian news streams, then move over to San Francisco Chron (as left as it gets), then NY Daily News (left again), MSN (still very left) and only then FOX cable (mostly financial news coverage and some prime time).

If there is anything biased on FOX I would LOVE for anyone to point it out to me, for every right winger they ALWAYS have a left winger chime in, if that's not "unbiased" then I have no idea what qualifies. It is their company policy to split the views presented 50/50 and they actually stick to it. Name ANY other news media outlet that does that, here or abroad. After reading all the left leaning "news", I find FOX unbiased and very refreshing. Although sometimes too soft when taking on some issues or people. IMO.
Any specific recent news item you can point to where you felt FOX did not cover it properly? TIA.

But as you said, its the perception. And not reality that FOX is biased.

And BTW, I am absolutely sure that if I start watching BBC (again), I WILL find problems with their coverage as well, and quickly so. Just start with their well known anti-semitic stance, main reason I stopped watching them some time ago. If that's your definition of "truth" and "balance", then I can easily see why you (you and "the world") and I disagree on what "news" means. The only "truth" BBC reports on is EPL score lines, but I get much better coverage of that elsewhere.

Originally Posted by 14holestogie (Post 303039)

Seems we're arguing OPINIONS.

We all win. :tu