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-   -   Any effect due to horizontal vs vertical storage? (http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/showthread.php?t=12896)

troutbreath 03-29-2009 09:42 AM
Re: Any effect due to horizontal vs vertical stora
 
Good stuff. I hope there is no impact, as tetris has forced me to this option.


I wonder if there is a tendency for the cigars to "warp" over time, rather than remaining straight?

s15driftking 03-29-2009 10:12 AM
Re: Any effect due to horizontal vs vertical stora
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nozero (Post 309134)
:hm I'd rather have a maid...

like this???

http://assets.spirithalloween.com/im...796.zoom.a.jpg

or like this???

http://www.halloweencostumes4u.com/M...003/888527.jpg

SeanGAR 03-29-2009 11:20 AM
Re: Any effect due to horizontal vs vertical stora
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by s15driftking (Post 309168)
like this???

or like this???
Kinda depends .... do you need a right guard for your flag football team?

ucla695 03-29-2009 01:02 PM
Re: Any effect due to horizontal vs vertical stora
 
Playing cigar Tetris in my cabinet has led me to store a couple of boxes vertically. I opted to store them caps side down so as not to damage the feet. I haven't noticed any difference in how they smoke and don't think there are any problems with it.

taltos 03-29-2009 01:22 PM
Re: Any effect due to horizontal vs vertical stora
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanGAR (Post 309100)
Not so, my good man.

If the cigars are stored vertically, with the feet facing down, all of the "goodness" (sorry to be using such a technical term) will slowly but surely drip out of the cigars.

I base this on tasting cigars stored horizontally and stored foot down. Blind tasting has shown a clear preference for those stored horizontally.

Now, you probably are thinking ... shouldn't they be stored vertically, but foot up because, after all, if the "goodness" can drip out foot down vertically, it might still drip out, albeit more slowly, if stored horizontally?

Yes, this is indeed the case. In fact, my butler has done an experiment to test this and has found that "foot up" cigars taste better.

So there you go .. conclusive proof.
Were they stored in a B&M or in an Internet facility?:D

Mr Edmundo 03-29-2009 01:28 PM
Re: Any effect due to horizontal vs vertical stora
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobarian (Post 308806)
I am pretty sure that cigars are not familiar with the Law of Gravity. :r
On the contrary. They seem to know that they have to fall "down". I've never seen a cigar that didn't understand that. :r

Legend 03-29-2009 02:48 PM
Re: Any effect due to horizontal vs vertical stora
 
Where exactly is the cigar "goodness" in the cigar at the start? Perhaps based on seangar's testing the big internet guys tend to store verticle!

It could happen.

Mr Edmundo 03-29-2009 03:18 PM
Re: Any effect due to horizontal vs vertical stora
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Legend (Post 309410)
Where exactly is the cigar "goodness" in the cigar at the start? Perhaps based on seangar's testing the big internet guys tend to store verticle!

It could happen.

Geeze!!!!
Here we go again :rolleyes:

SeanGAR 03-29-2009 04:48 PM
Re: Any effect due to horizontal vs vertical stora
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Legend (Post 309410)
Where exactly is the cigar "goodness" in the cigar at the start?
I'm glad you asked that question.

Being hydrophilic, goodness is typically attached to the cellulose molecules in the tobacco leaves by hydrogen bonding. The early hypothesis suggested in the 1950s that goodness is attached to the lignins in the tobacco has been shown to be false.

However, as water molecules are present in the environment (70% humidity is RELATIVE humidity of course, and that is relative to pure water at that same temperature and pressure), they compete for the goodness binding sites on the cellulose.

It comes as no surprise, thus, that storage at very high humidity causes problems. For one, goodness molecules are freed up and molds are able to feast on them. For another, long term storage at high humidity results in a LGC ... that would be Low Goodness Cigar, for the noobs.

So not only should cigars be stored foot up, but at humidity where the goodnes is not out-competed by water molecules. That has been shown to be around 60-70% RELATIVE humidity.

Storage at too low humidity results in activation of GD enzymes. That would be Goodness Destroying enzymes, for the noobs. That is why you can't store cigars at too low or too high humidities. It all relates to dG/dt .. or the rate of goodness change with time.

rharris 03-29-2009 07:38 PM
Re: Any effect due to horizontal vs vertical stora
 
So if I store my crappy cigars horizontally underneath my good ones(stored vertically)Will some of the goodness become imparted and replace some of the crappiness? Or is it possible that crapiness rises maybe through osmosis?

Legend 03-29-2009 07:43 PM
Re: Any effect due to horizontal vs vertical stora
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanGAR (Post 309577)
I'm glad you asked that question.

Being hydrophilic, goodness is typically attached to the cellulose molecules in the tobacco leaves by hydrogen bonding. The early hypothesis suggested in the 1950s that goodness is attached to the lignins in the tobacco has been shown to be false.

However, as water molecules are present in the environment (70% humidity is RELATIVE humidity of course, and that is relative to pure water at that same temperature and pressure), they compete for the goodness binding sites on the cellulose.

It comes as no surprise, thus, that storage at very high humidity causes problems. For one, goodness molecules are freed up and molds are able to feast on them. For another, long term storage at high humidity results in a LGC ... that would be Low Goodness Cigar, for the noobs.

So not only should cigars be stored foot up, but at humidity where the goodnes is not out-competed by water molecules. That has been shown to be around 60-70% RELATIVE humidity.

Storage at too low humidity results in activation of GD enzymes. That would be Goodness Destroying enzymes, for the noobs. That is why you can't store cigars at too low or too high humidities. It all relates to dG/dt .. or the rate of goodness change with time.
In your model goodness is always deteriorating. Then how do we factor in that aging is supposed to increase the goodness in a cigar typically.

Your theory may still need work. Or I have not understood your excellent explinations.

rharris 03-29-2009 07:45 PM
Re: Any effect due to horizontal vs vertical stora
 
This thread has given a lot of
Better
Understanding
Longterm
Ligero
Storage
Hydrophillic
Interaction
Terms

OR, B.U.L.L.S.H.I.T. if one prefers.

SeanGAR 03-29-2009 07:48 PM
Re: Any effect due to horizontal vs vertical stora
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rharris (Post 309790)
So if I store my crappy cigars horizontally underneath my good ones(stored vertically)Will some of the goodness become imparted and replace some of the crappiness? Or is it possible that crapiness rises maybe through osmosis?
The density of goodness is so great that, even when it is in the vapor form, it follows gravity to the center of the earth, being so much denser than air. But sadly, crappiness is less dense than air and rises .... and as you no doubt know ... once vapors of goodness and crapiness meet, they cancel each other out, just like matter and antimatter. So you risk a stock of insipid cigars by storing good ones above poorer ones.

SeanGAR 03-29-2009 08:03 PM
Re: Any effect due to horizontal vs vertical stora
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Legend (Post 309795)
In your model goodness is always deteriorating.
If the cigar is stored foot up, the goodness will not leave the cigar, even if it dissociates temporarily from the cellulouse. You can calculate that yourself using Fick's equation if you like. Just remember the ρ of goodness is 11.14 kg/m3. For the cigar to lose goodness, it has to exit the foot ... stagnant layer and all, as a man of your stature would see immediately, that would not happen before centuries pass if stored foot up.

Quote:
Then how do we factor in that aging is supposed to increase the goodness in a cigar typically.
Actually that is quite simple. Master cases of cigars .... you're familiar with that term right ... being a legend and all ... are used up top to bottom. So .. the longer the cigar box has sat in the remainder of the master case, the more goodness has dripped down from cigars from above. Once the bottom layer is removed from the master case, it will degrade in quality. That is why cigars improve with age and then decline.

Quote:
Your theory may still need work. Or I have not understood your excellent explinations.
Grasshopper ... you will understand one day.

rharris 03-29-2009 08:03 PM
Re: Any effect due to horizontal vs vertical stora
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanGAR (Post 309799)
The density of goodness is so great that, even when it is in the vapor form, it follows gravity to the center of the earth, being so much denser than air. But sadly, crappiness is less dense than air and rises .... and as you no doubt know ... once vapors of goodness and crapiness meet, they cancel each other out, just like matter and antimatter. So you risk a stock of insipid cigars by storing good ones above poorer ones.
So with this new information in mind,would it be safe to say that your theory is perhaps best summed up by saying that Horizontal Organization Reactions Seem (to)Exhibit Some Higher Inclination (of) Taste? Or H.O.R.S.E.S.H.I.T for short?

SeanGAR 03-29-2009 08:18 PM
Re: Any effect due to horizontal vs vertical stora
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rharris (Post 309812)
So with this new information in mind,would it be safe to say that your theory is perhaps best summed up by saying that Horizontal Organization Reactions Seem (to)Exhibit Some Higher Inclination (of) Taste? Or H.O.R.S.E.S.H.I.T for short?
EXACTLY!

I love when somebody can summarize a complex theory with a single word ... or acronym I suppose.

lightning9191 03-29-2009 09:31 PM
Re: Any effect due to horizontal vs vertical stora
 
Dammit this thread went legendary on me :ss

Sauer Grapes 03-29-2009 09:45 PM
Re: Any effect due to horizontal vs vertical stora
 
Someone is in rare form tonight. Love it!

md4958 03-30-2009 08:07 AM
Re: Any effect due to horizontal vs vertical stora
 
Just watching this video that was posted in another thread. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59OIa...eature=related

At around the 9:13 and again at the 10:00 marks, you will see that many of the cigars stored at the Pepin factory are upright. If its good enough for the Don, then its good enough for me :D

Scottw 03-30-2009 09:29 AM
Re: Any effect due to horizontal vs vertical stora
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nozero (Post 309134)
:hm I'd rather have a maid...
I wish I was a legend, actually, I don't. :r


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