Quotes By Our Founding Fathers.

[shilala]

The point of this sharing is simply so that folks may be able to read and feel the mindset of our leaders when this great Country was born.
For me, it helps me to understand why things happened the way they did, and how we got where we are.
Does it matter in the long run?
I think so, if but in one way.
So that my children understand my fierce love of Liberty, and so that is passed on in my family. By God's Grace, it's worked. :)

I'm just going to share some Jefferson quotes, because he speaks to me so strongly.
I hope you'll all share your favorites. :tu

[shilala]

“I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend.”
From a letter to William Hamilton, April 22, 1800

“We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.”
From the Declaration of Independence

“I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.”
From a letter to Benjamin Rush September 23, 1800

“I set out on this ground which I suppose to be self evident, ‘that the earth belongs in usufruct to the living;’ that the dead have neither powers nor rights over it.”
From a letter to James Madison criticizing the new Constitution, September 6, 1789

“Say nothing of my religion. It is known to God and myself alone. Its evidence before the world is to be sought in my life: if it has been honest and dutiful to society the religion which has regulated it cannot be a bad one.”
From a letter to biographer Joseph Delaplaine, December 25, 1816

“Determine never to be idle. No person will have occasion to complain of the want of time who never loses any. It is wonderful how much may be done if we are always doing.”
From a letter to his daughter, Martha May 5, 1787

[Subvet642]

Thomas Paine, Common Sense, January 16, 1776

"Society in every state is a blessing, but Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one: for when we suffer, or are exposed to the same miseries BY A GOVERNMENT, which we might expect in a country WITHOUT GOVERNMENT, our calamity is heightened by reflecting that we furnish the means by which we suffer. Government, like dress, is the badge of lost innocence; the palaces of kings are built upon the ruins of the bowers of paradise. For were the impulses of conscience clear, uniform and irresistibly obeyed, man would need no other lawgiver; but that not being the case, he finds it necessary to surrender up a part of his property to furnish means for the protection of the rest; and this he is induced to do by the same prudence which in every other case advises him, out of two evils to choose the least. Wherefore, security being the true design and end of government, it unanswerably follows that whatever form thereof appears most likely to ensure it to us, with the least expense and greatest benefit, is preferable to all others."



Thomas Paine, The American Crisis, December 23, 1776

"These are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands by it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing its value. Heaven knows how to put a proper price upon its goods; and it would be strange indeed if so celestial an article as FREEDOM should not be highly rated. Britain, with an army to enforce her tyranny, has declared that she has a right (not only to TAX) but "to BIND us in ALL CASES WHATSOEVER" and if being bound in that manner, is not slavery, then is there not such a thing as slavery upon earth. Even the expression is impious; for so unlimited a power can belong only to God."

[Porch Dweller]

"Posterity! You will never know how much it cost the present generation to preserve your freedom! I hope you will make a good use of it."
-John Adams

[dijit]

I never really paid attention to American History until I was too old to be graded for it. Now I dwell upon it with frequent regularity. I use it in my everyday life to instill upon my children and hopefully my children's children not only my love of country but for my fellow man. You gentlemen have given me quotes I have either forgotten about or never had cause to remember but all apply to my life and my beliefs. Thank you

[dijit]

A popular Government, without popular information, or the means of acquiring it, is but a Prologue to a Farce or a Tragedy; or, perhaps both. Knowledge will forever govern ignorance: And a people who mean to be their own Governors, must arm themselves with the power which knowledge gives.

James Madison, letter to W.T. Barry, August 4, 1822

This is one of my favorites as it has applied to our form of society and government since before it was formed as it is human nature to want to help their own and seek peace and harmony.

A universal peace, it is to be feared, is in the catalogue of events, which will never exist but in the imaginations of visionary philosophers, or in the breasts of benevolent enthusiasts.

James Madison, essay in the National Gazette, February 2, 1792

[G G]

Benjamin Franklin: Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

[icehog3]

"Power always thinks... that it is doing God's service when it is violating all his laws." -John Adams

"Because power corrupts, society's demands for moral authority and character increase as the importance of the position increases." - John Adams

"I, I've been watching you, I think I wanna know ya" - Morris Day

[shilala]

O e o e o. - The Time

[Whee]

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy."--Benjamin Franklin

[AdamJoshua]

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy."--Benjamin Franklin

http://awesomeshit.ninja/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/abraham-lincoln-quote-internet-hoax-fake.jpg

[icehog3]

I didn't realize Abe was a Founding father. :)

[shilala]

Abe can do whatever he wants.

[dave]

" I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccesful rebellions indeed generally establish the incroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions, as not to discourage them too much. It is a medecine necessary for the sound health of government."

-Thomas Jefferson


I, too, love Thomas Jefferson; however, his writings were so prolific and thoughtful, that his quotes are too often used in poor context to justify just about any position about anything. I generally try to avoid quoting him for just that reason. But, I do come back to this one from time to time when discussing various 'protest actions'; be it Occupiers, or Hands Uppers, etc. Even when I disagree with the message of a protest or rally, I tend to go out of my way to defend the rights of those who want to get their message out. I can't find the quote now, but I believe that Jefferson had another, similar quote about rebellion that seemed to almost forecast an insurrection every couple decades.....just to keep the powers in check....Sorta scary to think about nowadays.

[Subvet642]

" I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccesful rebellions indeed generally establish the incroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions, as not to discourage them too much. It is a medecine necessary for the sound health of government."

-Thomas Jefferson


I, too, love Thomas Jefferson; however, his writings were so prolific and thoughtful, that his quotes are too often used in poor context to justify just about any position about anything. I generally try to avoid quoting him for just that reason. But, I do come back to this one from time to time when discussing various 'protest actions'; be it Occupiers, or Hands Uppers, etc. Even when I disagree with the message of a protest or rally, I tend to go out of my way to defend the rights of those who want to get their message out. I can't find the quote now, but I believe that Jefferson had another, similar quote about rebellion that seemed to almost forecast an insurrection every couple decades.....just to keep the powers in check....Sorta scary to think about nowadays.

Jefferson hated the Constitution and the Jay treaty because they exposed him to his creditors. A slave owner, he never freed more than a handful of them and then only his family members; and not even all of them. His free-spending ways in France and at home caused him to have to rent out his slaves in order to pay his debts. It seems that he only hated banks when it was time to pay them back. He also applauded the Terror in France as Robespierre threatened to kill both Thomas Paine and General Lafayette. I'm not a fan.

[shilala]

Jefferson hated the Constitution and the Jay treaty because they exposed him to his creditors. A slave owner, he never freed more than a handful of them and then only his family members; and not even all of them. His free-spending ways in France and at home caused him to have to rent out his slaves in order to pay his debts. It seems that he only hated banks when it was time to pay them back. He also applauded the Terror in France as Robespierre threatened to kill both Thomas Paine and General Lafayette. I'm not a fan.

Nobody in the US was happy with the Jay Treaty, mainly because Hamilton castrated it before Jay could even leverage Britain into the US's terms.

The "hated the Constitution" comment, I'm not sure what that alluded to. I just can't place use for it in your comment, brother. The results of the Jay treaty caused Jefferson to be exposed to his overseas creditors. Didn't matter, it certainly didn't ruin him.
It didn't much matter who liked the Jay Treaty, or why. It was high time to ease tensions between the colonies and Britain.

When Jefferson wrote the words "all men are equal" in the Declaration of Independence, he also stuffed a good bit of anti-slavery sentiment into the document. Words that absolutely set straight the fact that the States were headed away from slavery, and would be indebted to do so.
At the time, in his young life, it was how he felt and what he believed.
Later on he completely flip-flopped.
His anti-slavery writings dried up completely, and he wrote Washington with his infamous "4 percent" formula, which is regularly mischallenged because people are unread.
But he absolutely was pro-slavery, pro Monticello Industry, and pro making money.
All that was in direct opposition to his earlier leanings and writings on his own brand of Democracy, which I adore.

The younger man just got turned around, Darren.
Whether it was vice or luxury or whatever, I've never hunted up.
I'm okay with "people change". It's odd in his case that he goes so far from good to bad.
The fortunate thing is that it was the best of Thomas Jefferson that was present when our country needed him. :tu

Oh, almost missed something.
Jefferson did not applaud the Terror in France. He applauded the outcome of the French Revolution, and what it meant to a free world.
Here are his own words directly prior to The Terror (https://chnm.gmu.edu/revolution/d/592/).
I don't get to a post-Terror letter to refute that as well, I just ran out of time. :)

[Subvet642]

Nobody in the US was happy with the Jay Treaty, mainly because Hamilton castrated it before Jay could even leverage Britain into the US's terms.

The "hated the Constitution" comment, I'm not sure what that alluded to. I just can't place use for it in your comment, brother. The results of the Jay treaty caused Jefferson to be exposed to his overseas creditors. Didn't matter, it certainly didn't ruin him.
It didn't much matter who liked the Jay Treaty, or why. It was high time to ease tensions between the colonies and Britain.

When Jefferson wrote the words "all men are equal" in the Declaration of Independence, he also stuffed a good bit of anti-slavery sentiment into the document. Words that absolutely set straight the fact that the States were headed away from slavery, and would be indebted to do so.
At the time, in his young life, it was how he felt and what he believed.
Later on he completely flip-flopped.
His anti-slavery writings dried up completely, and he wrote Washington with his infamous "4 percent" formula, which is regularly mischallenged because people are unread.
But he absolutely was pro-slavery, pro Monticello Industry, and pro making money.
All that was in direct opposition to his earlier leanings and writings on his own brand of Democracy, which I adore.

The younger man just got turned around, Darren.
Whether it was vice or luxury or whatever, I've never hunted up.
I'm okay with "people change". It's odd in his case that he goes so far from good to bad.
The fortunate thing is that it was the best of Thomas Jefferson that was present when our country needed him. :tu

Oh, almost missed something.
Jefferson did not applaud the Terror in France. He applauded the outcome of the French Revolution, and what it meant to a free world.
Here are his own words directly prior to The Terror (https://chnm.gmu.edu/revolution/d/592/).
I don't get to a post-Terror letter to refute that as well, I just ran out of time. :)

Actually, Hamilton was the main proponent of the Jay Treaty; it was his idea. What the French Revolution meant to the world is that revolutions are subject to counter-revolutions and are prone to devolve into despotism and tyranny; ours was a shining exception. After all, France ended up with an emperor instead of a proper republic for almost 100 years. As for Jefferson's disdain for the Constitution, I think it speaks to his flawed character. He whined about the amount of power it gave the Federal government but was quick to take advantage of it when it suited him. When he became President, he instructed his Secretary of the Treasury, Albert Gallatin, to "find the dirt" on Hamilton. He didn't because he couldn't; there was no "dirt". He may have written some pretty words but he never translated any of them into action; one need only look at how he treated his enslaved "family". Jefferson died in a hideous amount of debt, a debt his slaves were never able to work off. I generally dismiss Jefferson as a poser.

[shilala]

I can see right where you're coming from on pretty much every point, Darren.
I certainly respect your point of view, as well.

Pretty much everything can be seen in more than one light.
Take Jefferson's debt, for instance.
He was deep in debt nearly his entire life.
He was a lousy farmer. Or had lousy Virginia farmer luck, as can be seen regularly to this day. Virginia can be hell to farm. That's why Monticello was so diverse.
He had many debtors, many in the same boat as he, and most of their debt ultimately went bad.
I can think of one story where he wrote a $20,000 note and the guy died before he could make a payment. Jefferson ate it. The way the economy worked at that time, that was at the very LEAST worth $500,000 in today's dollars, and worth as much as almost 500 MILLION.
He took on a huge amount of debt from his father-in-law.
His debt multiplied exponentially during the Panic of 1819.
When he died, he was maybe 2 million in debt. Or, more aptly, Monticello was.

His part in that was that he spent lavishly, liked to play the big shot, and mostly took advantage of his reputation so he could swing in style.

In my estimation, under the much greater umbrella of the times, he was about average in his typical politician tripe.
I probably give him a lot more stroke for the regular guy he was, and the flowery sentiment he spilled. He was fantastic at inciting a nation to do good, even if he was what he was.

I think if you and I had cigars with him, we'd find him a very likable guy, whereas, for instance, we'd find John Adams something of a dick. :)

Anyways, thanks for the discussion, brother!!!
Add some more awesome quotes, will ya?

[shilala]

And may that Being who is supreme over all, the Patron of Order, the Fountain of Justice, and the Protector in all ages of the world of virtuous liberty, continue His blessing upon this nation and its Government and give it all possible success and duration consistent with the ends of His providence.

-John Adams Inaugural Address, I forget the date. It was a long time ago. 1790 something.

[dave]

As much as I value an union of all the states, I would not admit the southern states into the union, unless they agreed to the discontinuance of this disgraceful trade, because it would bring weakness and not strength to the union.
---George Mason June 17.....1788

Let that year sink in a little bit.....had more of his generation thought the same way, I wonder how different the next 80 years would have been....or even the next 227 years

[shilala]

Oddly, George Mason was a slaveholder from Virginia.
He's also the man who's mostly responsible for our Bill of Rights.

People today many times think that people spoke out of two sides of their mouths back then, which is understandable.
A large majority of the population DID support abolition, but could really only speak as hard as their income was indebted to slavery.
It was a strange, strange time that was completely polarized by slavery.

It was just in 1783 that Massachusetts made the first move to just flat-out abolish slavery in their state. Every slave was freed.
Before that, Pennsylvania and Vermont made gestures in that direction, partially putting a stop to slavery. They chose a more gradual abolition.
Between 75 and 83, all the 13 colonies had plans in place to end slavery.
Then it took 80 more years and millions of lives to put an end to it.
So sad.

[Subvet642]

I can see right where you're coming from on pretty much every point, Darren.
I certainly respect your point of view, as well.

Pretty much everything can be seen in more than one light.
Take Jefferson's debt, for instance.
He was deep in debt nearly his entire life.
He was a lousy farmer. Or had lousy Virginia farmer luck, as can be seen regularly to this day. Virginia can be hell to farm. That's why Monticello was so diverse.
He had many debtors, many in the same boat as he, and most of their debt ultimately went bad.
I can think of one story where he wrote a $20,000 note and the guy died before he could make a payment. Jefferson ate it. The way the economy worked at that time, that was at the very LEAST worth $500,000 in today's dollars, and worth as much as almost 500 MILLION.
He took on a huge amount of debt from his father-in-law.
His debt multiplied exponentially during the Panic of 1819.
When he died, he was maybe 2 million in debt. Or, more aptly, Monticello was.

His part in that was that he spent lavishly, liked to play the big shot, and mostly took advantage of his reputation so he could swing in style.

In my estimation, under the much greater umbrella of the times, he was about average in his typical politician tripe.
I probably give him a lot more stroke for the regular guy he was, and the flowery sentiment he spilled. He was fantastic at inciting a nation to do good, even if he was what he was.

I think if you and I had cigars with him, we'd find him a very likable guy, whereas, for instance, we'd find John Adams something of a dick. :)

Anyways, thanks for the discussion, brother!!!
Add some more awesome quotes, will ya?

I'll bet you're right, Scott. Even John Adams himself thought he was difficult. I lived in his home town for about 12 years after I got married. It's been said that he was probably the most deserving, after Washington, but the least prepared to be President.

[Stephen]

As much as I value an union of all the states, I would not admit the southern states into the union, unless they agreed to the discontinuance of this disgraceful trade, because it would bring weakness and not strength to the union.
---George Mason June 17.....1788

Let that year sink in a little bit.....had more of his generation thought the same way, I wonder how different the next 80 years would have been....or even the next 227 years
Until you realize that he owned more slaves than any other delegate to the Constitutional Convention. He was opposed to the slave trade, not slavery for purely economical reasons (his slaves wouldn't be as valuable to the Southern market if, "fresh" batches were coming in from Africa/the Caribbean).

[shilala]

Until you realize that he owned more slaves than any other delegate to the Constitutional Convention. He was opposed to the slave trade, not slavery for purely economical reasons (his slaves wouldn't be as valuable to the Southern market if, "fresh" batches were coming in from Africa/the Caribbean).
I did not know that. Thanks, my man!!!

[dave]

I didn't either. A little more interwebs reading clouds things a little more, however. I can't find much to support the reasons stated (devaluation.) What I've seen today seems to indicate that reasoning had more to do with being realistic about the issue in social climate of the time; and that big changes across the colonies was going to be slow going. All is just speculation, however, since his writings that have survived are a little contradictory, but don't seem to indicate his personal feelings/rationalizations. Entirely possible that a couple centuries treatment of a respected founding father have tried to smooth rough edges.

[shilala]

He was simply a man of his time, Dave.
We tend to look at these guys with the different morality of today's eyes.
The fact that he was in a position to give the northerners an abolishionist gift, yet better his lot, really just means he was a damn motivated businessman with a sensible head.
Were he from further south, there's no way he'd consider such a thing as giving up slave trade.
He could make that concession because of his proximity to the northern economy he served.

In short, he was certainly not a bad guy, and should be admired. :tu

[Subvet642]

He was simply a man of his time, Dave.
We tend to look at these guys with the different morality of today's eyes.
The fact that he was in a position to give the northerners an abolishionist gift, yet better his lot, really just means he was a damn motivated businessman with a sensible head.
Were he from further south, there's no way he'd consider such a thing as giving up slave trade.
He could make that concession because of his proximity to the northern economy he served.

In short, he was certainly not a bad guy, and should be admired. :tu

Hi Scott, I just can't compartmentalize morality like that. There were others who took a stand, like Hamilton, who never owned or allowed a slave to work for him. Once, when he was ill and stuck in the city, a friend sent him a servant to help. He sent her back at once. When Washington freed all of his slaves, he gave them money and land. Thomas Paine hated slavery in no uncertain terms. Article I, Section 9, Clause 1 of the Constitution calls them Persons and bans their importation after 1808, so there certainly was a sense of the moral hypocrisy evident.

[shilala]

Agreed, Darren.
It remains that it was not even remotely the morality of the times.
Hell, 50 years prior nobody griped on slavery at all.
We as a country and culture evolved around it, albeit slower than most other civilized (and barely civilized) countries.
The big holdup here was, as remains today, money.
That treading into where we don't go here, let's get back on point.
I sure hope you and I can talk on this together someday.
I find it fascinating, although I don't get very emotional about it.
I just sincerely hope we've learned from it all, and continue to grow under God.

[shilala]

For the want of a nail the shoe was lost,
For the want of a shoe the horse was lost,
For the want of a horse the rider was lost,
For the want of a rider the battle was lost,
For the want of a battle the kingdom was lost,
And all for the want of a horseshoe-nail.
Benjamin Franklin