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G G
03-11-2015, 07:58 AM
Okay I remember way back in the day when Shilala made a compressor driven Frigidaire Wine Fridge into a Humidor. I always wanted one but at the time I had a working vinotemp. My vinotemp crapped out on me a couple weeks ago and I had to do something. I found the very model he uses to do this on craigslist for $100 and picked it up yesterday. In messaging with Scott on how to accomplish the conversion, he expressed a desire to post up all the info and pics he has sent me to help me do this in case someone else wants to they can use the thread instead of bugging the crap out of him (which is what I had to do). Here is what I have, and Scott said he will chime in when necessary because I am illiterate with handyman stuff.

Here is the Frigidaire, and mine is model #LFWC35F4LB and a 35 bottle fridge.

http://i531.photobucket.com/albums/dd360/ggainey/281492BD-E397-4D4C-AA89-FF2EBF81F6E9.jpg (http://s531.photobucket.com/user/ggainey/media/281492BD-E397-4D4C-AA89-FF2EBF81F6E9.jpg.html)

and here is the back so you can see it's compressor driven:

http://i531.photobucket.com/albums/dd360/ggainey/5C39B886-EAA2-4146-86DC-8118B5083117.jpg (http://s531.photobucket.com/user/ggainey/media/5C39B886-EAA2-4146-86DC-8118B5083117.jpg.html)

In order for this to work right without drying out the cigars you have to use two or three computer case fans powered with an adapter (12 volt) to power them. You have a drain hole at the bottom that you run the adapter cord out of before sealing up the drain with electricians putty. Shilala has two in his but after talking to him about it I am going to use three fans at 15 CFM in the 60 mm size. Scott says if he ever builds another one that is what he will do instead of two, so if it's what he will do then it's good enough for me.

http://i531.photobucket.com/albums/dd360/ggainey/293C75D7-20DF-4696-9D34-512396A5C10A.jpg (http://s531.photobucket.com/user/ggainey/media/293C75D7-20DF-4696-9D34-512396A5C10A.jpg.html)

http://i531.photobucket.com/albums/dd360/ggainey/0119E054-DA6E-450E-A679-25BD047DEBD3.jpg (http://s531.photobucket.com/user/ggainey/media/0119E054-DA6E-450E-A679-25BD047DEBD3.jpg.html)

Scott bought his from http://www.svc.com

The zip straps and zip strap mounts can be purchased at Lowe's, and he used #10 nuts and washers and screws and cut them off to attach the straps to the fan case and attaching the guard to the fan. The fans will blow on the evaporator (the whole back wall of the interior) to dry the moisture and drive it back to the beads. They will hang at a 45 degree angle and run 24/7. You will only use two of the three leads to wire the fans and Scott said not to ask which one's. I don't know yet either but he also said that if you wire the wrong one's then as soon as you apply power it WILL fry the fan so be careful with this part. Google is your friend I am sure on this part.

As far as beads, I already have a pound and a half of HCM beads in from the vino and I'm going to use that and get another pound for a total of 2.5 pounds. Scott says it should be good to go. Of course you can add more if you like.

I will update with pics when I get the fans and stuff to actually convert it and hopefully we can make it a sticky for how to do this or at least the thread will be here to help guide folks in the process.

The only part I'm unsure of at this point is the adapter. Scott said you use one adapter to power all the fans and it is a 12 volt adapter. My question is does it matter about the polarity or the milliamps? Maybe Scott can chime in with the particulars on that.

I would also assume by looking at the unit, the adapter will need to have a pretty long cord to make it from inside to the drain hole then out the bottom back of the unit. Scott can also probably expand in this as well.

T.G
03-11-2015, 08:35 AM
The only part I'm unsure of at this point is the adapter. Scott said you use one adapter to power all the fans and it is a 12 volt adapter. My question is does it matter about the polarity or the milliamps? Maybe Scott can chime in with the particulars on that.

I would also assume by looking at the unit, the adapter will need to have a pretty long cord to make it from inside to the drain hole then out the bottom back of the unit. Scott can also probably expand in this as well.

Yes, polarity matters since the fans are DC. Red wire is hot (+). If you hook it up backwards, it will either not run or you'll let the blue smoke out. If that happens, it'll never work.** If the fan has a yellow wire, you can ignore it, that's the feedback sensor for the RPM fan speed.

Assuming that each fan has the same nameplate data, 0.16A, that's 160mA each, that means for 3 fans, your draw will be around 480mA. In simple terms, equipment only draws the current (amperage) that it needs, so you can go higher, it won't hurt anything. I'd say go with at a 1A to 1.5A power supply would be fine and you can usually find them in thrift stores for about a buck. Depending on the fans, and I don't see it in the manufacturer literature for the ones you have, so I wouldn't do in your case without more research, you can run the fans at a lower voltage, like 9VDC to have them turn slower and not make as much noise.

So long as you maintain polarity, you can extend the wire by splicing in a longer section with crimp butt splices or just buy an extension that has the round plug ends (places like radio shack or fry's electronics have these).


**: Little known fact, electrical equipment doesn't actually run on electricity. It runs on a pre-installed charge of magic blue smoke. The electricity is necessary to create a field which keeps the blue smoke captive. If you let the blue smoke out, it won't run anymore.

G G
03-11-2015, 08:42 AM
Yes, polarity matters since the fans are DC. Red wire is hot (+). If you hook it up backwards, it will either not run or you'll let the blue smoke out. If that happens, it'll never work.** If the fan has a yellow wire, you can ignore it, that's the feedback sensor for the RPM fan speed.

Assuming that each fan has the same nameplate data, 0.16A, that's 160mA each, that means for 3 fans, your draw will be around 480mA. In simple terms, equipment only draws the current (amperage) that it needs, so you can go higher, it won't hurt anything. I'd say go with at a 1A to 1.5A power supply would be fine and you can usually find them in thrift stores for about a buck. Depending on the fans, and I don't see it in the manufacturer literature for the ones you have, so I wouldn't do in your case without more research, you can run the fans at a lower voltage, like 9VDC to have them turn slower and not make as much noise.

So long as you maintain polarity, you can extend the wire by splicing in a longer section with crimp butt splices or just buy an extension that has the round plug ends (places like radio shack or fry's electronics have these).


**: Little known fact, electrical equipment doesn't actually run on electricity. It runs on a pre-installed charge of magic blue smoke. The electricity is necessary to create a field which keeps the blue smoke captive. If you let the blue smoke out, it won't run anymore.

I am certainly not an electrician, but I was thinking that the little picture on the back of the adaptors were something about polarity. It's probably the same thing you are saying, and it's good info whether I'm dumb or not. Thanks for adding that to the thread. I hope with my info, and others adding more, that someone can do one of these and just follow the thread and not have to ask ten thousand questions like I did. Thanks.

T.G
03-11-2015, 09:03 AM
I am certainly not an electrician, but I was thinking that the little picture on the back of the adaptors were something about polarity. It's probably the same thing you are saying, and it's good info whether I'm dumb or not. Thanks for adding that to the thread. I hope with my info, and others adding more, that someone can do one of these and just follow the thread and not have to ask ten thousand questions like I did. Thanks.

Yes, the pictures are.

AC vs DC markings:
http://www.harmonycentral.com/forum/filedata/fetch?id=31129563&d=1398382724

1A = 1000mA

Tip/Ring polarity markings - note how #1 and #4 are the same, as are #2 and #3 - sometimes they mark the symbols upside down on the power supplies. The important part is the center dot is the "tip" the outer "C" is the "ring".
http://support.radioshack.com/support_tutorials/batteries/images/polarity-all.gif


When you have a barrel connector, the center is always "Tip" the outer sleeve is always "ring". In the photo below, the power supply should be marked with the first or fourth image from the photo above.
http://www.smart-clip.com/power_polarity.jpg

T.G
03-11-2015, 09:15 AM
Now, if you are adding connectors, then you'll have to either test them with a continuity meter or go by the packaging as there are about a billion different styles, but here's an example of how they tend to be designed.

https://dlnmh9ip6v2uc.cloudfront.net/assets/a/6/c/e/3/51141da0ce395fe67e000005.jpg



If you are cutting the connectors off and splicing wires, usually the wire with the marking is hot (+). The marking could be a ridge on the wire, a solid line, a dashed line etc. I say usually because sometimes they are wired with the marked wire as "tip" and with a tip negative supply, that would make the unmarked wire hot, so it's best to always double check with a multi-meter after you cut the connector off.

http://cdn.instructables.com/FN7/1TCT/FW5H2TM4/FN71TCTFW5H2TM4.LARGE.jpg
http://hostedmedia.reimanpub.com/TFH/Step-By-Step/FH08APR_LAMCOR_01.JPG
http://hostedmedia.reimanpub.com/TFH/Step-By-Step/FH08APR_LAMCOR_02.JPG

G G
03-11-2015, 09:20 AM
Thanks, I always kinda went with the side with the marking (line, etc) was hot. Good to know.

T.G
03-11-2015, 09:28 AM
Thanks, I always kinda went with the side with the marking (line, etc) was hot. Good to know.

I'd say that probably 98.2% of the DC power supplies I've cut the connectors off of, that is the case, but once in a while, for whatever reason, I see one that is reversed. An inexpensive ($5) basic multi-meter with DC volt setting is all you need to check the polarity of the wires.

G G
03-11-2015, 09:38 AM
gotcha Adam.

G G
03-12-2015, 02:37 PM
Also was searching on Bing about this topic and came across an old thread where Shilala stated that there is a rubber grommet on the high right back of the unit and that is where he ran the power cable for the fans out of the back of the unit. I was thinking I would have to run in down to the drain hole before sealing it with electricians putty.

G G
03-13-2015, 04:18 PM
The fans came in today, now just gotta wait for the other components to come in. They have red, black, and blue wires. I believe to wire them the red is hot, the black is ground, and the blue is tach. Only gonna wire red and black.

http://i531.photobucket.com/albums/dd360/ggainey/BC46F248-B265-4988-B425-CD8F4E9CFC13.jpg (http://s531.photobucket.com/user/ggainey/media/BC46F248-B265-4988-B425-CD8F4E9CFC13.jpg.html)

G G
03-14-2015, 03:45 PM
Went by Lowe's and got the cable ties, cable tie mounts, and electrical connectors for the fan wires.

G G
03-14-2015, 06:34 PM
Also was able to get a brother from my church that does woodworking to look at the four drawers from my vino and he says he can modify them to fit the frigidaire and build me one shelf from Luann for 35 bucks total. He has them now.

shilala
03-15-2015, 04:18 PM
**: Little known fact, electrical equipment doesn't actually run on electricity. It runs on a pre-installed charge of magic blue smoke. The electricity is necessary to create a field which keeps the blue smoke captive. If you let the blue smoke out, it won't run anymore.
Most people don't know this, that's why it's a little known fact.
Absolutely true.
On the great big powerlines they have blue AND red smoke, or so the legend goes. Nobody has ever owned up to letting that smoke out. I happen to know a guy that knows a guy, though.

shilala
03-16-2015, 02:03 PM
Someone will eventually ask "do I need to plug the drain hole?"
To this, I always answer "go drill a half inch hole in your desktop and see how well it holds humidity."
I've always wondered why guys think it's okay to have a hole in a winador, but not in any other kind of humidor.
And yes, if you have your winador in a basement or ambient condition where the RH is a constant 65%, the winador will also stay at 65%. So some folks can leave their cigars on the kitchen counter and they'll be fine.
But that's a very, very small percentage.
And humidity control is not the only reason we put our cigars in a humidor and don't want a constant transfer of outside air.
Did that sound pissy? :)

G G
03-16-2015, 04:10 PM
Okay, will post up pics tomorrow if I don't have a lot of 911 runs. I have it rigged with the fans and the DRAIN IS PLUGGED. LOL Had to use siliconized caulk since I didn't want to drive 40 miles for a pound of putty. I did text Scott and make sure I wasn't gonna destroy something by using it first though. And he is nice enough to actually answer me.

G G
03-17-2015, 09:39 AM
Got the Fridge pretty much set up yesterday. Here are some pics. I used this to seal up the drain since I didn't have quick access to the putty Scott recommended:

http://i531.photobucket.com/albums/dd360/ggainey/FAEAC4F1-DE76-4408-81D5-AA109E3AF1D4.jpg (http://s531.photobucket.com/user/ggainey/media/FAEAC4F1-DE76-4408-81D5-AA109E3AF1D4.jpg.html)

I had to run the wire for the fans out the drain hole because mine doesn't have any other places to run it without drilling a hole somewhere up in the top so I ran it this way. The wires will be hidden by the drawers anyway:

http://i531.photobucket.com/albums/dd360/ggainey/DA06666B-F906-4851-9CB1-9B97C5F2171F.jpg (http://s531.photobucket.com/user/ggainey/media/DA06666B-F906-4851-9CB1-9B97C5F2171F.jpg.html)

Here are the fans installed and they work like a charm. I used three because Shilala said that even though he used two and it works fine if he ever builds out another one he would use three. I have learned over the years that if it's good enough for Scott then it's probably worth doing. The different color cable ties are because the nice black one's I bought were too big to fit through the mounts and I had these laying around:

http://i531.photobucket.com/albums/dd360/ggainey/70C76DCA-9BD7-42E7-9A6A-A17B7252E8C1.jpg (http://s531.photobucket.com/user/ggainey/media/70C76DCA-9BD7-42E7-9A6A-A17B7252E8C1.jpg.html)

I am now just giving it a couple days for the plugged drain to cure and also got a pound and a half of HCM beads from my vino. I have another pound on the way. As soon as all that comes together and I get my drawers back I will get it loaded up and see what happens.

G G
03-19-2015, 01:44 PM
Alright, a little update:

I had my cigars in the freezer for the last three or four days. I have been working crazy hours lately and have been on shift for 48 hours at a time for the last week.

I had the fridge turned off to let the siliconized sealer set up for two days since I wasn't here. When I got home from work this morning I checked the seal and it's all good. I turned fridge on and then put the cigars back in it. They are in what I had them in the freezer in because I don't have my drawers back from my friend that's modifying them for me. Anyway I am having trouble getting the dial to keep the temp up where I want it. This fridge is supposed to have a range of like 40 degrees to 64 degrees. It does ice up on the evaporator everytime I turn it on though. Shilala says it's cool and I just have to keep finessing it til I get it right.

http://i531.photobucket.com/albums/dd360/ggainey/DD63E53C-8756-4B7E-A102-53BF8ACE9351.jpg (http://s531.photobucket.com/user/ggainey/media/DD63E53C-8756-4B7E-A102-53BF8ACE9351.jpg.html)

http://i531.photobucket.com/albums/dd360/ggainey/998E0557-38F6-46B5-BBB3-F6EDCE801DE7.jpg (http://s531.photobucket.com/user/ggainey/media/998E0557-38F6-46B5-BBB3-F6EDCE801DE7.jpg.html)

http://i531.photobucket.com/albums/dd360/ggainey/0A8C8873-6586-486E-B62D-9AE44AFF567C.jpg (http://s531.photobucket.com/user/ggainey/media/0A8C8873-6586-486E-B62D-9AE44AFF567C.jpg.html)

afranco
03-19-2015, 02:35 PM
Looking good

G G
03-20-2015, 01:28 PM
Thanks Alfredo.

Small problem: This fridge is supposed to have a temp range from 40 to 64 degrees. I can't get it to go more than around 45 so far. Messaged with Shilala about it and he says that it'll be easier to get it up when I get my drawers and everything back in it.

shilala
03-20-2015, 01:44 PM
I've been talking to Greg about the temp control on these things.
There's a spring stop right after the highest setting, then you force past that spring to make the knob "boing" and shut off.
It takes some practice to get the fridge set, and then I just leave it alone. I always kept mine at 72*.

On the evaporator frosting...
The whole back of this thing is an evaporator. Right now because Greg has nothing (or next to nothing) in there, the thermal mass is not sufficient to keep the air warm enough for it to short-cycle like we want it to.
In short, we want the giant mass of cigars to warm the air as fast as the evaporator cools it.

The evaporator may frost later, anyways. Doesn't matter. It's perfectly fine.
Eventually the compressor will shut off, the frost will thaw, and the fans will dry the condensate, sending it back to the air and the beads. Then it'll repeat, the cycles being more and more even as time goes on.

Greg's situation that he's showing you right now is actually really cool.
Most guys do the same thing, and it's easy to understand why. They expect a system to work when only part of the parts are in place, but it doesn't. And it does weird things.
It's because there are a lot of invisible numbers and temperatures, and physical properties at play. Lots of parts in the machine, and they all need to be in place, then have time to coalesce and work in harmony.

Now, if the front window were missing, nobody would give a second thought as to why things weren't working. Most guys wouldn't even try to make it work without a window except maybe Gainey and Murphy and Jerebek, but they Polanders. You'll have that.
Greg can't get predictable results right now because we're still missing lots of parts.
I'm not making foolish of him at all, really. We did this thread so guys can understand, and he's the PERFECT guy to do it with.
He's been super easy to work with, and reacted to the build exactly the way most brothers do. That's allowing me to answer all the questions I forget.

So, once Greg gets all the parts and pieces in place (cigars, boxes, trays, beads), stops opening the door 100 times a day, and lets the winador stabilize, he'll find that it just plain works.
Like magic.
Hopefully he'll journal all those fun days while it's coming together.

The only other thing I can mention is that lots of times guys use a Johnson Temperature control. That's fine.
I suggest this model because I personally know it's not necessary. Guys can save 60 or 70 bucks, get it set, and it never, ever changes.
I also like for there to be no extra moving parts and to keep the retrofit very, very simple.
There are tons of these setups out there. Nobody has EVER had a problem one.
Gainey will probably fix that. :lr

We do have the control option to fall back on, so it's out there.
We'll see what happens. I think Gary is just stubborn enough to get that temp set perfect. :tu

G G
03-20-2015, 03:46 PM
Did you call me Gary? :r

I am slow when it comes to doing stuff like this I admit, but Shilala did say something earlier that is true. He said I was dumb stubborn like him. That's actually pretty apt, I will stay with it til it turns out like it needs to cause I aint got sense enough not to. LOL

G G
03-22-2015, 12:47 PM
Just to add to the problem of getting the temp set right.

I know Shilala says it will be easier to get it right once I get the drawers and all the stuff in the humi. I have tried to get the temp down by tweaking the knob. The problem is when I turn it from off to on there is an audible and you can feel the click and hear the compressor come on. When it's just turned enough to get the click the temp will settle at around 44 to 48 degrees, then when I try to just turn it a little as Shilala suggested, it goes off and there is no discernable click so then when I see the temp get up to over 60 then I turn it back on and it starts all over. I can't get it to go over 50 when it's on so far.

shilala
03-22-2015, 04:55 PM
I just figured out why you can't get it to work, Stashu. :lr
You're turning it the wrong direction.
The lowest setting is farthest from off. You want to turn the knob at least halfway in that direction, then on the way back to off, where the knob gets real stiff before it boings off, that's where the delicate high settings are.

You and I have put so many words into this that I have to go make a video for ya, even though I know you'll understand exactly what I mean.
It's something everybody will need to understand and a little video will make it real obvious.

One other thing...
You can use those plastic zip-strap anchors and zip-ties to hold your wiring running down the back and get rid of the black tape holding your wires down.
That's actually what they're for. Assuming you have some more?

G G
03-22-2015, 05:42 PM
Okay let's see if I can make sense of this problem. Here are two pics of the setting knob:

In the first one it is off. In that setting you can only turn it counter clockwise to Cold, then normal, then colder. I thought that cold is the lowest, then normal is a little colder, then colder being the coldest setting.

http://i531.photobucket.com/albums/dd360/ggainey/8325F433-AA81-421C-8E38-2EFF2E7EF8CF.jpg (http://s531.photobucket.com/user/ggainey/media/8325F433-AA81-421C-8E38-2EFF2E7EF8CF.jpg.html)

In the next one it is on cold obviously. When I try to turn it back towards off just the tiniest bit it goes off. And when it's off you can't turn it clockwise to colder, you have to go counter clockwise past cold and normal to get to it.

http://i531.photobucket.com/albums/dd360/ggainey/73FDD571-692B-4A28-A154-FC8B4F73442D.jpg (http://s531.photobucket.com/user/ggainey/media/73FDD571-692B-4A28-A154-FC8B4F73442D.jpg.html)

G G
03-22-2015, 05:50 PM
I have turned if off. Then following your directions have turned it halfway (Normal) and will adjust it back toward cold a little at a time.

G G
03-22-2015, 06:01 PM
I said it wrong above. Off, then cold, then normal, then colder. With cold being the warmest setting. Here is a pic from the users manual:

http://i531.photobucket.com/albums/dd360/ggainey/C8233C91-52E1-4199-9049-CAE993FF13F4.jpg (http://s531.photobucket.com/user/ggainey/media/C8233C91-52E1-4199-9049-CAE993FF13F4.jpg.html)

shilala
03-23-2015, 12:53 PM
I'm looking forward to see what happens now, Greg.

No sense in the video now that we know you have a different control.
If worse comes to worst, we can always add a controller. We still need to see what you can do and get it all put together and filled, first.

G G
03-23-2015, 02:25 PM
Yeah, I'm hoping that all those scientific things you said is the problem cause walking it down little by little didn't help. If it's on no matter where I put it it's around 42 to 44 degrees. It's mostly empty though so I'm still hoping once I get my drawers and shelf in it and put the few boxes I had back in it it will help.

shilala
03-23-2015, 02:39 PM
It may start that cold, but not maintain that temp once we fill her up.
Fridges do goofy things when they're just chilling air. Screws up the radiation of heat from near surfaces to your tstat.
Let's see what happens. I think Adam has a real cheap source for a Johnson control if necessary.

G G
03-23-2015, 02:49 PM
It may start that cold, but not maintain that temp once we fill her up.
Fridges do goofy things when they're just chilling air. Screws up the radiation of heat from near surfaces to your tstat.
Let's see what happens. I think Adam has a real cheap source for a Johnson control if necessary.

Good to know Scott.:tu

G G
03-23-2015, 05:16 PM
I don't expect to have no beetle problem. LOL

G G
03-27-2015, 01:09 PM
So I am on duty for 24 hours until 8 AM in the morning but the pound or two of beads are in. I will have about 3.5 pounds of HCM beads when I get them in the humi. I called the dude that has my drawers and left a message but he hasn't returned my calls. That may be a problem, I mean he didn't sell em or nothing like that just seems like he must not be in a hurry to get them done since he has had them two weeks.

shilala
03-27-2015, 01:14 PM
Two weeks is nothing, Greg. It takes me 6-8 weeks just to tired of something being in my way, then another year or two till I actually get it done.
The wheels of the woodshop grind slowly.

shilala
03-27-2015, 01:15 PM
If it makes you feel better, I break stuff and cut myself a lot. :tu

kgoings
03-27-2015, 01:17 PM
Nice project

stearns
03-27-2015, 02:23 PM
It takes me 6-8 weeks just to tired of something being in my way, then another year or two till I actually get it done.
The wheels of the woodshop grind slowly.

I can attest :r

shilala
03-27-2015, 03:19 PM
See? Ben knows what he's talking about. :tu
Benster, I did invent/made a whole gob of new hold-downs just so I could try to get the umpteenth modification of your cribbage board done.
So, If I ever do get back in the woodshop, there's a remote chance I could get it finished in this decade. :tu

stearns
03-27-2015, 03:21 PM
Ain't no problems, jut messing with ya. Plus I hear the 20's are a great decade for this typa thing :tu

G G
03-27-2015, 03:22 PM
:tu

shilala
03-27-2015, 03:47 PM
Yeah, I know you don't care, Bensy. It'll be a beautiful day when I get done. :)
Greg, I'd suggest you make shelves out of duct tape just to hold you over. :tu

stearns
03-27-2015, 04:02 PM
Greg, for shelves, way back when I got my vino I measured that the size was and went to home depot had them cut me some temp shelves out of whatever type of wood Scott told me to use at the time. If you think it's going to be another may weeks before you see them that's always an alternative for the short term. It is super cheap. won't be able to hold singles, but great for boxes. I drilled a couple big holes in them for air flow and still use a few for underneath my singles drawers for putting stuff in 5-inger bags

G G
03-28-2015, 10:00 AM
Yeah, I know you don't care, Bensy. It'll be a beautiful day when I get done. :)
Greg, I'd suggest you make shelves out of duct tape just to hold you over. :tu

Greg, for shelves, way back when I got my vino I measured that the size was and went to home depot had them cut me some temp shelves out of whatever type of wood Scott told me to use at the time. If you think it's going to be another may weeks before you see them that's always an alternative for the short term. It is super cheap. won't be able to hold singles, but great for boxes. I drilled a couple big holes in them for air flow and still use a few for underneath my singles drawers for putting stuff in 5-inger bags

It seems that Ben's idea is more practical. :r

I hope to have them back soon, should see him tomorrow at church and at least know when I will get them back.

I received the beads from Shilala and as usual he went beyond. Two pounds of the beads and an Cigar Asylum coin. Awesome and thanks to Scott.:tu

Scott labeled the beads and said they were 70ish% and I think I'm going to take them down to 62%. Anyone have a preference for the best way? Oven or refrigerator?

shilala
03-28-2015, 10:37 AM
You throw a beatdown on that guy in the church parking lot, he's gonna get the message, Greg.
Don't ever say oven again. :lr

G G
03-28-2015, 10:58 AM
You throw a beatdown on that guy in the church parking lot, he's gonna get the message, Greg.
Don't ever say oven again. :lr

I will whoop him good. No heating beads in a kitchen appliance, i swear. :r

G G
03-28-2015, 11:00 AM
Also on Scotts advice i am going to leave the beads where they are until i get everything in the fridge and stabilize. He pointed out that the little extra oomph will help season the drawers and shelf and boxes and od course ceegars.

G G
03-30-2015, 10:22 AM
Okay, I got one of the drawers back from the guy. He only done one and wanted me to try it before he does the other three in case he has to make adjustments. It fit just fine so hopefully I will have the other three back in 6 weeks since it took two for him to do one. LOL He is working cheap so I really can't complain. I have the one drawer full of cigars with 3.5 pounds of beads and the humidity is hanging right around 66 to 68%. I have quite a bit of mass with a three boxes, a big Tupperware full of cigars, and the drawer full of cigars and still can't get the temp above 44 degrees. Still going to wait until I get the other three drawers in it with the shelf and see what happens then. Might have to go with a temp controller.

shilala
03-30-2015, 10:28 AM
Didn't that thing say it'd go up to 66?
You might want to try the coldest setting. Maybe it's just ass-backwards?
Reason I'm asking is because it might pay to just go swap it out, the temp control may be wonky.
Now that you've put the fans in once, it'll probably only take 10 minutes to do it the second time.
Or we can go with the temp control. Hopefully we can find a schematic to tell you what wires to grab.

G G
03-30-2015, 10:34 AM
I would have to take the fans out to change the temp control?

I did think about it being backwards and have tried it several different ways. Turned it to the coldest setting yesterday and it went down to 35 degrees. Which according to the documentation it aint supposed to go that low. It's at 49 right now with it turned to the highest setting which is warmer than it has went before.

shilala
03-30-2015, 10:46 AM
I would have to take the fans out to change the temp control?

I did think about it being backwards and have tried it several different ways. Turned it to the coldest setting yesterday and it went down to 35 degrees. Which according to the documentation it aint supposed to go that low. It's at 49 right now with it turned to the highest setting which is warmer than it has went before.

No, you'd have to take the fans out if you returned the unit and got another one.
But I was just thinking. Have you checked it with more than one thermometer, and what kind are you using?

G G
03-30-2015, 10:49 AM
No, you'd have to take the fans out if you returned the unit and got another one.
But I was just thinking. Have you checked it with more than one thermometer, and what kind are you using?

No return. Didn't buy it new. Bought it from a dude on craigslist. He bought a house in Fernandina Beach, and I'm sure it costed him a ton. The wine fridge was in the deal and when it didn't work he made them buy a brand new one. He don't drink wine and wanted to use it for drinks and beer. He said it didn't get his drinks cold enough so he bought a beverage fridge and sold this one. It's about a year old and he never really used it and I paid him $100.

shilala
03-30-2015, 10:57 AM
No return. Didn't buy it new. Bought it from a dude on craigslist. He bought a house in Fernandina Beach, and I'm sure it costed him a ton. The wine fridge was in the deal and when it didn't work he made them buy a brand new one. He don't drink wine and wanted to use it for drinks and beer. He said it didn't get his drinks cold enough so he bought a beverage fridge and sold this one. It's about a year old and he never really used it and I paid him $100.

Yup, I forgot that stuff. My brain death is acting up. :)
Back on point...
Have you checked it with more than one thermometer, and what kind are you using?

Ya know, I retrofitted one of these and turned it into a drinks fridge and it gets so cold I have to watch it doesn't freeze the stuff. I used to keep it on my back porch, then I put it in the office, and now I'm gonna put cigars in it.

I wish I could see more of the inside back of your unit.
I just want to know more about the temp control that's in it. Seems like the sensor lead (the part that reads the temp, I'm lost for the word right now) is buried?

G G
03-30-2015, 11:15 AM
I have a couple, one a decent one (I think) and one a cheapo from Walmart. Here are some pics and it does appear that the temp probe is hidden at least from the inside:

http://i531.photobucket.com/albums/dd360/ggainey/f8204b13-464b-4b83-877e-c99f230df92f.jpg (http://s531.photobucket.com/user/ggainey/media/f8204b13-464b-4b83-877e-c99f230df92f.jpg.html)

http://i531.photobucket.com/albums/dd360/ggainey/624443C0-20A7-43A1-A4CB-1BED85E412EA.jpg (http://s531.photobucket.com/user/ggainey/media/624443C0-20A7-43A1-A4CB-1BED85E412EA.jpg.html)

http://i531.photobucket.com/albums/dd360/ggainey/10EE10D3-E1F7-4702-9D2C-6180BFA5F8B7.jpg (http://s531.photobucket.com/user/ggainey/media/10EE10D3-E1F7-4702-9D2C-6180BFA5F8B7.jpg.html)

http://i531.photobucket.com/albums/dd360/ggainey/39C8D6EC-8A82-4F9D-A061-6907ED635A60.jpg (http://s531.photobucket.com/user/ggainey/media/39C8D6EC-8A82-4F9D-A061-6907ED635A60.jpg.html)

And here's a little diddy I did a couple years ago for the people who keep us free. It was in the same bunch of pics on photobucket and I though it would bring something besides the drudgery of this thread. LOL

http://i531.photobucket.com/albums/dd360/ggainey/th_Capture_20110804.mp4 (http://i531.photobucket.com/albums/dd360/ggainey/Capture_20110804.mp4)

G G
03-30-2015, 11:41 AM
The thermometers didn't match in the photo cause I took them out a little apart

shilala
03-30-2015, 11:45 AM
Okay, buddy. Awesome tune, by the way. :tu

Ima need to look up that control. It's blowing my mind.
That top thermometer/hygrometer, you should probably stomp that. The caliber is a good one. I'd still feel better if you had a plain, old fridge thermometer.
Does the woman have one of those thermometers hanging on her fridge shelf? I doubt it, those went the way of the dinosaurs when they invented glass shelves.

This is a good type of thermometer for temperature, and they're cheap...
Nevermind, I just sent you a couple via Amazon. They'll be there Wednesday. :tu

G G
03-30-2015, 11:50 AM
Well you didn't have to do that, I was already thinking when I go to the big city today I could pick one up, but there is no need now. Thanks a ton and I will get them in there soon as I get them.:tu

shilala
03-30-2015, 11:54 AM
My pleasure, brother. :tu

I can't find a schematic for the Model LFWC35F4LB, or a parts breakdown.
I need Adam. T.G. Adam, not chocolate pudding Adam.

G G
04-01-2015, 06:42 PM
Okay the new and improved thermometers came in today. But I am two hours and twenty minutes from getting off from a 38 hour shift. I get home at almost 11 pm, go to bed and get up at 7 am for another 24 hours. So I will put them into the fridge tonight and will update what happens on Friday.:tu

G G
04-03-2015, 09:03 AM
I got home this morning and with the thermometers Shilala sent me the temp is settled in at around 58 degrees. The good thing is the temp matches the thermometers that I already had in there. The Walmart cheapo is about 2 degrees off from the hygro and the two Shilala sent. Maybe that means when I get the other drawers and the shelf back in it, it will help it a little more.

G G
04-03-2015, 09:22 AM
Checked again and it goes down to about 51 degrees when it cycles then up to around 58.

That's better than 43 though.

shilala
04-03-2015, 09:34 AM
I don't know anything about that thermostat, so we'll just have to see what happens once you load it up.
58 wouldn't be awful, but it's too cold for me. It'd be okay for me if I had a regular humi on top and moved "smokes I was going to smoke" up there to warm.
I always smoke out of my travel humidors, so it would be fine, I suppose.

G G
04-03-2015, 09:44 AM
I don't know anything about that thermostat, so we'll just have to see what happens once you load it up.
58 wouldn't be awful, but it's too cold for me. It'd be okay for me if I had a regular humi on top and moved "smokes I was going to smoke" up there to warm.
I always smoke out of my travel humidors, so it would be fine, I suppose.

If it don't get a little warmer I will probably do the temp control. I hope to get it to at least mid 60s.

G G
04-19-2015, 01:11 PM
Okay so I got the other drawers back today. I now have all of them in (5) and am now going to wait and see what it stabilizes at and go from there.

Calling TG calling TG. Adam, Scott says you are the man as far as getting good prices on temp controls. If I have to buy one, ballpark what are we talking about?

G G
05-03-2015, 04:20 PM
I have tried and tried to get the temp set and I can't get it to go high enough. I am going to send a PM to T.G. and see where to get a temp control from.

G G
05-03-2015, 04:27 PM
Is this what I need? I am awaiting Adam's reply but plundering around on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Johnson-Controls-A19AAT-2C-Temperature-Controller/dp/B0002EAL58/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1430688368&sr=8-3&keywords=johnson+temperature+controller

G G
06-27-2015, 09:06 AM
This was kinda on the backburner for the last while. Had life get in the way with lots of crap. Anyway Adam has suggested a few temp controls and I will be getting a Johnson A419 digital. Since the temp won't go above mid 40s I gotta get it up. There is also a condensation problem as well. The condensation builds up in the bottom of the evaporator to the point that if I don't wipe it out once every couple weeks it will spill over into the bottom. No cigars are getting wet or anything,, because I keep it wiped out and keep the drawers pulled toward the door so they aren't as close to the condenation as they would be pushed all the way in.

G G
07-15-2015, 08:33 AM
Update: I ordered and received the Johnson Temp control. Since I already had the wire for the three fans running up through the drain hole, I figured I would run the temp probe the same way. When I pulled all the drawers out and looked at the back where the drain comes out, the drip pan (sits on top of the compressor) was kinda in the way. It pops off, so I removed it. The temp probe still wouldn't go up in the drain tube. I could tell by looking at the drain from the inside that it has an insert that makes the drain smaller. I took a pair of pliers with a screw driver handle and gently tapped the drain from the bottom and it came loose on the inside and I removed it. That made the drain hole just big enough that I could run the temp probe up through it. I'm going the seal it up with the electricians putty that Shilala recommended. It is scheduled to be delivered today. I set the temp at 65. I have never used a temp controller before so I asked a couple more questions of TG and he has answered them and I thank him for his recommendations and help choosing the temp controller and his help in the settings.

I have the setting for the setpoint at 65 F. There is also a setting for differential and as TG explained it that is the temp that it will go to below the setpoint before it cuts the fridge off. The differential comes defaulted at 5 degrees. So with the setpoint at 65 with a differential of 5 it will go down to 60 degrees before it cuts off. TG explained that if you have the differential too close to the set point it will cycle the compressor too often and for very short periods leading to premature failure of the comoressor, so he said 5 is good. I am waiting for the thing to stabilize since it was empty for an hour or two while i was working on it and will update soon.

G G
07-15-2015, 05:13 PM
Also got the electricians putty in today and went and plugged up the drain from the top and bottom.:tu

G G
07-17-2015, 09:54 PM
I meant to point out that when I cleaned the siliconized crap outta the drain, it didn't ever cure all the way inside and it came out goopy. I will forevermore never use any of that again and will use the Shilala endorsed electricians putty as it doesn't set up and stays pliable. I wold think that if I ever have to unplug it and replug it would be easy to do with the putty. I am also thinking of setting the set point a little higher than what I have it at. Any suggestions on what to put it at? Thinking bout putting the set point at 68 or 69, and that would mean it would cut out at 63 or 64 respectively.

T.G
07-17-2015, 11:12 PM
The problem with 68 or 69 degrees F, is that you are basing the cut-out on the temp around the sensor. If another area of the humidior is higher, or the sensor is out of calibration and reading low, then you have an area, or possibly the entire humidor, that is running at 70-something.

65 gives you a nice margin of error / buffer.

G G
07-18-2015, 08:47 AM
The problem with 68 or 69 degrees F, is that you are basing the cut-out on the temp around the sensor. If another area of the humidior is higher, or the sensor is out of calibration and reading low, then you have an area, or possibly the entire humidor, that is running at 70-something.

65 gives you a nice margin of error / buffer.

Adam, I was hoping you would reply since you already told me that when we were messaging. I went back last night and re-read the whole thread. I saw where Shilala posted that he always kept his set at 72. Was hoping he would post too and give us a couple of reasons why. I will probably leave mine where it is since it seems to be a little warmer in the bottom. I know common sense says that hot air rises, and I am sure you and Scott can both explain the physics of it better than I know. I have learned that when we are dealing with these humidors, vinos and such it isn't always gonna act like it's supposed to. Thanks for all your help too.

G G
07-18-2015, 02:24 PM
Here are a few photos of the humi now that I have the temp control in and it's been going for about 4 days, I think it's starting to settle in. I also bought a Taylor Thermometer because it popped up when I bought the temp control on Amazon and even though the one's that Shilala gave me work great this one is bog enough that my old eyes can see without squinting too much. I am using the two that Shilala gave me in the bottom and top. And as you can see it's warmer in the bottom that in the top. You can't see it in the pictures but the temp sensor for the controller is in the top of the unit right behind the light fixture. So the readings that you get are from the very top of the unit.

I think I forgot to mention that I got some cannisters from Michael to put my beads that I got from Shilala, they are the pencil eraser kind.


http://i531.photobucket.com/albums/dd360/ggainey/A2A43733-DA41-4BDA-8E1B-64B660BFDA4F.jpg

http://i531.photobucket.com/albums/dd360/ggainey/59353BF3-47B2-45CC-B34C-207B040ECE27.jpg

http://i531.photobucket.com/albums/dd360/ggainey/F1313CBB-BCB1-4DB5-B851-D5DEAAC45B72.jpg

http://i531.photobucket.com/albums/dd360/ggainey/D9C862D8-B3BE-4FF6-A0B9-D17854AAA661.jpg

http://i531.photobucket.com/albums/dd360/ggainey/2698A418-1FA9-45F1-905A-906DC6EA3E2A.jpg

G G
07-18-2015, 02:35 PM
http://i531.photobucket.com/albums/dd360/ggainey/FBA9B4DF-75F8-4059-9601-B079B5D97B31.jpg

The humidity is hanging in around 59 or 60 %. I calibrated the hygrometer when I started all this so I think I will do it again.

afranco
07-18-2015, 09:38 PM
Looks good brother !!!!!

G G
07-19-2015, 07:57 AM
Thanks Alfredo.

I salt tested the Caliber III hygro, well actually it's still testing. It went to about 66% pretty quickly and this morning it was reading 66% and 74.2 degrees. I think I may need to get another one. Anyone have any recommendations? I hate buying hygros because I have never had one that really worked accurately for me.

Does anyone know how much the temp affects the humidity? I mean is there a scale you can apply? For instance if it's 75 degrees and 75% then if it's 70 degrees will it be x amount %.

shilala
07-19-2015, 11:09 AM
The Humidity is Relative to the temperature, that's why they call it relative humidity, meat.
There's no chart, because it's not a direct relationship.
Anyways, it looks like you're right where you want to be!!!
Congratulations!!! :tu

G G
07-19-2015, 12:14 PM
The Humidity is Relative to the temperature, that's why they call it relative humidity, meat.
There's no chart, because it's not a direct relationship.
Anyways, it looks like you're right where you want to be!!!
Congratulations!!! :tu

Okay Scooter, I knew it was RELATIVE, hence why i asked it it was somewhat predictable. LOL. I was thinking about buting a new hygrometer but I prolly won't. Just let it sit and only open it when I want a cigar and just let it be. Thanks.:tu

G G
07-19-2015, 12:20 PM
I was curious about the fact that it seems to be backwards from usual reality in the fact that it's warmer in the botton than in the top.

G G
07-19-2015, 12:37 PM
Just ordered a boveda calibration kit for $7.95 shipped on Amazon. I don't believe I have ever really gotten the salt test at the right dampness.:td

T.G
07-19-2015, 03:16 PM
I was curious about the fact that it seems to be backwards from usual reality in the fact that it's warmer in the botton than in the top.

I have two thoughts on that, both SWAGs

1) Poor air circulation in the cabinet.
2) The compressor motor is at the bottom of the enclosure and the insulation is allowing some heat from it to pass into the cabinet.

G G
07-19-2015, 03:24 PM
I'm not sure Adam. I know that the fans are blowing the air around pretty good on the back wall of the unit. You can feel it all the way to the bottom. The second part is true the compressor is underneath the bottom rear of the unit so that is probably the culprit.

T.G
07-19-2015, 03:37 PM
You know what SWAG means, right? I don't put much stock in those ideas, even though I presented them.

Scientific Wild Ass Guess.

G G
07-19-2015, 04:53 PM
You know what SWAG means, right? I don't put much stock in those ideas, even though I presented them.

Scientific Wild Ass Guess.

It's funny you should ask. I didn't but bing didn't either. It said it means Secretly We Are Gay. I didn't think that's what you meant LOL. THEN I FIGURED IT OUT. SIMPLY WILD A&& guess. In matters pertaining to humis your guess is better than mine. :r

G G
07-19-2015, 05:48 PM
I missed the scientific part in the above post. LOL

G G
07-25-2015, 12:28 PM
Okay, so the wife messages me and tells me that the boveda pack came in the mail today. I will have to wait til tomorrow to check the hygrometer with it because I am at work until 8 am in the morning.

I did make a small change. Before I got the temp control I had an awful amount of cendensation that was building up in the drain area. It would build up so much that I had to dry it out every week because if I didn't it would have eventually spilled over. Shilala assured me that when I got the controller that it would have less condensation and it did. With the temp set at 65 and a differential of 5 the temp controller would shut off at 60. With this temp there was still some condensation, not as much as previolusly but enough that I didn't like it. I changed the temp to 67 so that it cuts off now at 62. There is very little condensation if any. With this small change the temps are almost uniform through the interior. It gets up to around 68 or 69 in the bottom where it seems to be warmest with the middle and top being right where it's supposed to be.

I knew how it worked from talking to Shilala. I was kinda surprised how much of a swing in the humidity you observe when it cycles or when the door is opened. The humidity will drop to the high 40s or low 50s when it cycles and it happens very quickly as well as when you open the door. It also rebounds right back up to where it should be very quickly when it cycles off. Shilala says it's perfectly the way it is supposed to work.

I hope Shilala doesn't mind me sharing his text, but here is his words on the subject:

That's exactly what it's supposed to do.
The water in the air collects on the evaporator, which is the back wall.
Then your fans dry that off and return it to the air.
Instantaneous readings really mean nothing.
You want a net aggregate.
If, when it's not running and the back is dry, your rh reading is around what you want it, you're done.
If you want to test that RH point, turn the compressor off.
See what it says after a few hours.
You don't need to do any of this because you already know it's okay, plus you don't have it filled.
In short, you're all good, stud!!!

shilala
07-25-2015, 12:52 PM
Now you just gotta fill the thing up.
Like I said, if you don't have enough boxes of cigars, fill it up with something.
Lots of guys use plain old boxes with wadded paper in them.
I think I mentioned I'd go beyond that, but only because you have more than plenty of beads. The paper and boxes is a good idea if a guy needs to hold a bit of extra water vapor, but I don't like chance of a box getting pushed back against the evaporator, getting wet, and molding.

Rubbermaid bowls full of water or sand WITH THE LIDS ON are a great idea. That's a great heat sink that'll help your unit stabilize quickly when it cycles.
That's essentially because once they're to temp, they just stay that way. All you're really cooling is the air.
By filling the unit, you vastly decrease the volume of air you need to cool, effectively decreasing the cycle time AND amount of water that gathers on the evaporator.

I can't stress enough that readings a guy gets when the unit is empty (or mostly empty) are almost worthless. They're useful to predict the final result of the project, but in no way reflect how the unit is going to cycle when it's full. Not even remotely.
But when a guy understands all the things going on, those numbers are a great help in telling if settings and fan direction and amount of beads are close.
I can tell Greg with complete confidence that he's good to go.
All he needs to do is get everything ready for the long haul by filling her up.

This has taken forever, but it's been fun.
Greg mentioned to me that he has about 200 bucks in this unit.
It will last a lifetime, literally. Plus it has tons more space than his previous broken almost new winador.

It's long been said that guys can't use compressor driven units for winadors.
Here's about the 20th one I've taken part in or built myself.
So that little piece of knowledge can be filed with the "woosh test" which is equally wrong. :D

I sure hope this helps guys along!!! :tu
Thanks for all the help, Adam!!!

G G
07-25-2015, 12:57 PM
It has been fun and I say thanks to Shilala for all the answered texts and aggravation I put him through. Also thanks to Adam as well for the messages and pointing me to the right temp controller. Thanks for anyone else that has added to this project.

I would also say that with the vino it was always struggling to keep the temps cool enough in the summer since I live in Florida. With this unit that is no longer a problem at all.

I also think when I get the hygro calibrated I doubt very seriously I will worry about it too much, since we know the efficiency of the beads to be almost perfect I doubt I will have to mess with it for years.

G G
07-28-2015, 06:53 PM
Just an update: I got the boveda calibration pack. Put the hygro in it and let it sit for about 30 hours. It was steady at 71, which means it's reading about 4 points low. Took it out of the pack and put it back in the humi. It is reading around 64 or 65, which means my humidity is a little higher than I would like at 69%. I think I will just leave it for now and see what happens as I add more cigars to it, or maybe use a couple of Shilala's ideas to take up space in it. I like this setup tons better than I ever did the vinotemp.

BigAsh
07-29-2015, 07:51 AM
Done already?...seems like only 4 months ago that you started this project!!...congrats Double G...lets see some finished pics!

G G
07-29-2015, 09:24 AM
Done already?...seems like only 4 months ago that you started this project!!...congrats Double G...lets see some finished pics!

Keith, since cigars don't fall out of it when I open the door I am hesitant to post pics because someone might think I don't have it full enough. LOL I already posted some and it don't really look any different than the last one's. Just getting the humidity and hygro, and the temp control all dialed in. It has been a long project but it was fun. I always have fun when I am working with Scott, even though it's probably not fun for him. :r

G G
09-05-2015, 12:17 PM
Just a quick update after a couple months.

I haven't filled it up yet although I have a pretty fair amount of cigars in it. As stated above my hygro is reading about 4 points low. It is usually pretty steady at reading around 64 to 66%. Basically it's at 68 to 70% according to the boveda pack I calibrated with. I finally decided I don't care. It's doing great with pretty big swings when the unit cycles, but that's to be expected. It rebounds very quickly when it shuts off. The cigars smoke fine and burn even so I aint stressing worrying about the humidity NO MO. LOL

G G
01-14-2016, 09:18 AM
Just figured I would post an update since it has been a while now. This thing is rock solid and never changes. With the temp control the temp is rock solid and the humidity never changes. I don't even pay it much attention anymore since it's so stable. I would definitely recommend going this route if you ever get the chance.

shilala
01-14-2016, 12:10 PM
I told ya it'd work.
If anyone has any questions in the future, just pm Greg.
If you need his number, pm me. :D

G G
01-14-2016, 12:14 PM
I told ya it'd work.
If anyone has any questions in the future, just pm Greg.
If you need his number, pm me. :D

haha, I will definately be willing to help. Scott put up with all kinds of stupidry from me and answered all my questions.