View Full Version : Aristocrat Sealing Issues

01-24-2015, 10:11 PM
How often is everyone filling up your S&F units?

I have a plus 48 , with S&F and triple the reccomended HCM beads. I Fill up every 2 -3 weeks in the wintertime. Been chatting with Scott (thanks for the advice brother) and he figures I have a large leak. And as usual he is right :)

My door is not sealing very well, Scott figures it might be from sitting on the carpet. An issue i will address asap.

Also i noticed tonight that the power cable passthrough is just a 1/2" hole with no sealant , plug or anything really. So i will address that ASAP as well.

Been working 14 hour days for the past 3 weeks so I havent had time to start working on it really since noticing all of this.

I am dealing with 20% rh ish in the house right now. Its not like my RH in the cabinet is dropping. Its staying right where I have it set. Just drinking lots of water.

01-24-2015, 10:22 PM
I think the first time I filled it up, after seasoning it, was after the first 6 months. I'm in SD, the humidity is up and down, some days I will open it and watch it drop from 62 to 40 fairly fast, that being said it corrects itself within a short time.

I had a lot of beads in it, but turns out the beads were keeping the RH higher than I wanted, instead of lowering them I just gave them away, the S & F has been perfect without them.

01-25-2015, 11:58 AM
I have an M60 Plus. It's very dry here, in the Mohave Desert, so I top mine off once a month, with about 8 to 10oz of distilled water.

Ashcan Bill
01-25-2015, 12:50 PM
I have a 48 plus too.

In the spring it starts really drinking up water. I have to fill the reservoir every three weeks or so. And I mean fill it. By mid summer it seems to have had it's fill, and I go back to adding some water about every six weeks. That's the norm for me.

Mine has two Peltier cooling units. When the weather warms up and they kick in, they seem to suck all the humidity up. It takes the system a couple of months to adjust, during which time it really binge drinks.

01-26-2015, 07:50 AM
I also suggested that Colin add a humidifier in that room. If the RH was 20% in here, my nose would be bleeding and I'd need a gallon of water a day. That's cause of all the holes I have in me.

Thing is, the greater the difference in RH on the outside and inside of the humidor, the greater the vapor pressure differential.
Vapor pressure is odd in that it isn't a direct relationship. You can't math it with a formula, you need a chart.

The greater the differential in vapor pressure, the greater is the force at which your humidor will expel water vapor.
You'd think it'd be the same across the board, but it's not at all.

Think of it this way...
If the RH inside a mayonaisse jar is 72% and the RH outside is 73%, the vapor pressure variance will be very slight, so the water vapor in the jar will move out and mix with the surrounding air calmly and slowly when the lid is removed.
If The RH in a humidor is 72% and the room RH is 20%, the vapor will rush out of the humidor with a force much like air runs out of a balloon when you let it go.

Realistically, even in the type of situation Colin has, a nice, tight humidor (no leaks) should lose a couple ounces of water each winter season if you open it twice a day.
That figure is generous, I did the math till I was blue in the face when I developed HCM beads.
Obviously, a few leaks are to be expected.
But if a guy is cranking out a quart of water a week, there's a HUGE problem. Math and RH/temperature/pressure relationships bear it out very obviously.

It's why it's so easy to help guys figure out what's going on.
Math + Nature = You got a leak. Period. :D

01-26-2015, 09:41 PM
Yep. And thats where I am at. Maybe one of these days I will actually get a day off to work on the thing. In the meantime i guess I will just keep ordering sticks and topping up the S&F. I will be sure to update when I start sealing her better. Hopefully this weekend.. maybe...? :S

02-01-2015, 06:09 PM
As always , Scott is right :(

Door Seal
Top Right Corner:
http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af94/SaddenDude/Cigars/20150201_173111_zpspmbrp5ki.jpg (http://s997.photobucket.com/user/SaddenDude/media/Cigars/20150201_173111_zpspmbrp5ki.jpg.html)

02-01-2015, 06:10 PM
Bottom Right Corner:
http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af94/SaddenDude/Cigars/20150201_173224_zpswqnhfqwf.jpg (http://s997.photobucket.com/user/SaddenDude/media/Cigars/20150201_173224_zpswqnhfqwf.jpg.html)

Top Left Corner:
http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af94/SaddenDude/Cigars/20150201_173133_zpsvkgyhvwr.jpg (http://s997.photobucket.com/user/SaddenDude/media/Cigars/20150201_173133_zpsvkgyhvwr.jpg.html)

Bottom Left Corner:
http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af94/SaddenDude/Cigars/20150201_173247_zpslgdelbtw.jpg (http://s997.photobucket.com/user/SaddenDude/media/Cigars/20150201_173247_zpslgdelbtw.jpg.html)

02-01-2015, 06:11 PM
The wire pass through is not ideal either....
http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af94/SaddenDude/Cigars/20150201_175532_zpsosjjjomj.jpg (http://s997.photobucket.com/user/SaddenDude/media/Cigars/20150201_175532_zpsosjjjomj.jpg.html)

This is no smack on Bob. However this is the second door I have had problems with , it looks like this one has warped as well... :( The first one warped within 3 days of turning on the S&F...

The problem I have is that right now its around 20% RH. And the cabinet is set at 68%. The inside of the door wants to expand , and the outside wants to contract. Wood is a natural Product and that's what it wants to do.

Clearly sitting on the carpet is not helping either , the door is trying to touch the bottom molding on the handle side. I have had to fiddle with it extensively to stop it from touching :(

I am think I am going to move it to my storage room. Its a better surface to be sitting on , a room humidifier will keep the RH up at a decent level. And its cool in the summer.

In the meantime I will email Bob and see what he has to say. I don't think the door is salvageable though.

02-01-2015, 06:12 PM
Fortunately, Bob uses adjustable hinges, so you should be able to correct that easily. Settling will also cause that.

02-02-2015, 10:42 AM
Well i have had to call Bob and have him walk me through adjusting the door step by step before. But with the way it pinches in the middle and pulls away at the corners. I would be thoroughly surprised if its salvageable. Bobs good though so maybe he can help me correct it. That top right corner is kinda dubious though.

Didnt have time to email him last night. After work today i will.

02-03-2015, 11:29 PM
Are your doors not lined with foam where they meet the cabinet? Maybe you can line them to help with the seal?

Also, I know my doors adjust up and down depending on where the cabinet is sitting on the floor. Bob mentioned that they were designed that way and that they should correct themselves when the floor is level. I might try moving it off of carpet like you suggest.

I actually feel lucky. I don't even fill my S&F reservoirs. I only keep them for the fans and have them set to run on the axillary timer every 15 minutes. I just use 3-4 lbs of beads in my M Plus 25D.

Of course, the humidity in my house is 45-50% pretty much all year round, so I hardly recharge the beads as well. ;-)

02-05-2015, 01:32 PM
I feel like that for the money you pay for these, they should be sealed up. There is no excuse for the open hole where the wiring goes.

02-05-2015, 04:10 PM
I feel like that for the money you pay for these, they should be sealed up. There is no excuse for the open hole where the wiring goes.

Without moving mine away from the wall, as I recall there is a sleeve that the wires are fitted through and the sleeve 'pops into' the back of the cabinet much like a stopper. You can't totally seal that in the case that you need to remove the wires, the hole has to be big enough for the small plug (not the wall plug but the plug into the unit) to fit and if you totally sealed it with some compound ... well you'd be boned.

02-08-2015, 01:29 PM
Are your doors not lined with foam where they meet the cabinet? Maybe you can line them to help with the seal?

Theres a hard foam gasket there. But the difference in RH has caused the door to warp slightly and pull away from that foam in the corners. I am thinking about going to some kind of thick rubber gasket. The kind that squishes a lot. That way Bob doesn't have to replace the door.

Its an expensive door , and the shipping is also expensive. I don't want to see Bob go through all the hassle of replacing it just so the next one can do the same thing.

02-16-2015, 08:23 AM
I should update this. I found the plug for the power cable passthrough. So thats squared away. I also cleaned out the storage room and am going to bribe some BOTLs to help me move the tower there.

02-16-2015, 10:32 AM
Colin, have you checked that door front with a straight edge to see how warped it is?
There's an easy way to pull out a warp like that, well, easy if you have a shop.
But you could mess with it a bit and see what happens by just using a few bungie cords and a dowel (or a pen) and a bottle of distilled water and some garbage bags or plastic.

I'd tape plastic on the inside opening to hold in my humidity first.
Then wrap the door very loosely. make it so you can close the top of the bag off good.
Spray the back of the door liberally with water. (You'll want to repeat this part as necessary over the course of a couple days at least.)
Close the door with the pen stuck in the door on the non-hinge side.
Bungie the whole top of the unit around the door, and do the bottom too.
That should pull the warp out, and it should stay out.

You'll have to work with the size of the pen, maybe use a dowel or something. I'd use about twice the diameter of the warp, as read using the straight edge.

I'd probably shellac the backside and clamp it up, but that's a little excessive to do without a shop.

02-16-2015, 11:31 AM
I could probably do something like that Scott

I am going to get the cabinet moved. Then I will let it relax for a few days then see where its at with a straight edge and another flashlight test.

I could put towels on the corners and use ratchet straps to pull it straight. So you just soak the door down for a few days and then pull off the plastic and strap it into place and leave it till it acclamates? Even something like stacked pennies would work i bet.

02-16-2015, 11:45 AM
Just soak the inside of the door.
Stacked pennies would work fine.
I suggested bungies rather than rathchet straps because I don't know what the door is made of, and we don't want to get too aggressive. You'll just end up twisting the top and bottom rails of the door if you overdo it. :tu

03-04-2015, 01:23 PM
So I finally got around to calling Bob today. as always his customer service is second to none. I showed him the picture here.

He is sending me some triangular foam to fit to the inside edge of the humidor , that will get it sealed up for when I take off in April to go get married.

He really wants to just up and build me a whole new door. I'm still on the fence about it. as this would make door #3 , and the first two didn't fare too well (the second significantly better than the first though). I just don't want Bob to go through the time , energy , money and materials to build me a new door , when I am afraid it will do the same thing as the first two.

With that said Bob is very insistent , and quote "I would not be able to sleep well if I knew that one of my humidors out there was not performing as it should. Plus I like a challenge and want to make it right for you"

As always his customer service is second to none. For which I am extremely grateful.

Short Term I will seal it up with some additional foam , and longterm Bobs going to work on a new door for me. I would hazard a guess that he will have it done about the time I am sitting on the beach in Jamaica , smoking cigars and drinking cocktails. We will see as we approach the end of the month though. I will probably have him hold onto it until I get back from the honeymoon. He wants to test it out on one of the units they have there for a few weeks first though anyways.

03-04-2015, 01:31 PM
How can you beat that?
Bob kicks ass. :tu

03-04-2015, 01:43 PM
Very cool -- Bob is awesome!

03-04-2015, 03:25 PM
Yep. I cant reccomend anyone else. His units are nothing short of excellent , and his customer service even better yet.

In regards to water consumption , I filled the 1.5qt resevoir on Febuary 15th , today is March 4th and it will need to be filled again. Not acceptable when you consider that theres 10+ pounds of HCM beads in there as well.

03-04-2015, 04:14 PM
Cannot go wrong with Bob and even a few month later it still brings me joy just to look at mine. Phrasing....