Cuba relations thawing

[Tio Gato]

Our President is making a major announcement regarding relations with Cuba at noon. News outlets report that travel restrictions will be revised. (Among other reforms.) The full ending of the embargo will be a long haul, but it's hope for us cigar smokers. Word is the Pope had a lot to do with this. Hopefully things will get better for the people who make all those yummy smokes.

[AdamJoshua]

Well I know they are doing a 'prisoner' swap, I think I shall go into business manufacturing glass top boxes, beat the rush and corner the market.

[pnoon]

Our President is making a major announcement regarding relations with Cuba at noon. News outlets report that travel restrictions will be revised. (Among other reforms.) The full ending of the embargo will be a long haul, but it's hope for us cigar smokers. Word is the Pope had a lot to do with this. Hopefully things will get better for the people who make all those yummy smokes.

Higher prices and proliferation of fakes is not what I am hoping for.
:2

I do hope things improve for the Cuban people. They have suffered far too much for far too long.

[Remo]

I do hope things improve for the Cuban people. They have suffered far too much for far too long.

I am ready to spend some $$$ down there if it gets opened up, the flyfishing is some of the best in the world.

[JohnRogers]

This is dicey, one can see a future of Cuban cigars sold in the USA. Certainly today's announcement is a small step but the Cuban-American lobby has a strong voice. With out getting political one can say objectively the embargo has been a failure in most aspects.

[markem]

Well, here is one article. Don't know if it is true or not. Can't imagine how screwed up the market would/will be from this.


U.S. TRAVELERS NOW ALLOWED $100 OF CUBAN CIGARS
By Charlie Minato @charlieminato · On December 17, 2014

The importing of Cuban cigars to the U.S. is now legal, on a very small scale.

Following a series of high level talks, the United States and Cuba took major steps in restoring diplomatic relationships with eyes of ending the embargo.

The biggest news is that the countries will engage in full diplomatic relations, including a U.S. embassy in Havana, for the first time since Jan 3, 1961. For cigar smokers, there’s also a small reprieve.

American travelers will now be able to bring back $400 of goods from Cuba per trip, including $100 in alcohol and tobacco. While the price limits will make it challenging for a single person to bring back any full box of Cuban cigars, a handful of cigars is now legal. Previously, it was not only illegal for U.S. citizens to bring Cuban cigars back into the country, but a case could be made that even consuming Cuban cigars abroad could be considered a violation.

Despite the embargo, the U.S. is largely considered to be the largest market for Cuban cigars in the world and the enforcement of the law is not regularly enforced. Ironically, the holiday months are arguably the only time it is remotely challenging to procure Cuban cigars in the U.S. due to the symbolic enforcement that occurs in the months of November and December.

As for the end of the embargo against Cuba, there has been a growing belief that President Obama will attempt to make a normalization of relations between the estranged countries part of his legacy. It remains unclear if a full rollback of the embargo could occur within his final two years in office.

[JohnRogers]

Travel restrictions will be eased; Visitors to Cuba will now be allowed to use US credit/debit cards for any purchases instead of cash solely heretofore; and US travelers returning from Cuba will now be allowed to bring back $400 of ANY goods, including $100 worth of Cuban cigars.
So basically the best way for Americans to enjoy Cuban cigars will be trips booked on Priceline on a Cuban cigar tour?

[markem]

Okay, here's the rub. Will US travelers be able to bring back $100 in Cuban cigars from wherever they travel or just from Cuba? Do they have to prove that the cigars were actually sold to them in Cuba?

On the plus side, a thaw with regards to humanitarian issues is huge. I'd rather see a better life for Cubans than easier access to cigars for me.

[badbriar]

About damn time!!! :banger

...President Barack Obama declared the end of America's "outdated approach" to Cuba Wednesday, announcing the re-establishment of diplomatic relations as well as economic and travel ties with the communist island — a historic shift in U.S. policy that aims to bring an end to a half-century of Cold War enmity.

I'm with Mike - a road trim is only 90 miles from Key West!!! :D

[oldforge]

This is good news. With embassies in place there will be trade negotiations. In a couple of years Americans will be able to _legally_ purchase the Cuban cigars (including probably by mail order).

This is bad news for the Mexican fauxhiba industry of course. :-)

[AdamJoshua]

This is bad news for the Mexican fauxhiba industry of course. :-)

I disagree with this, I think with legal Cubans on the market here in the US, you will see the glass top boxes spring up all over the place and the fauxhiba market will have an explosion here in the states, where as right now they don't have a market in the physical territory.

[Blueface]

:po
bishes

[Ashcan Bill]

I suspect this is the beginning of the end to the embargo. I think by the time the next president takes office, it'll be completely ended.

[Whipper Snapper]

MMM, fauxhibas.

[Angry_Pirate]

Okay, here's the rub. Will US travelers be able to bring back $100 in Cuban cigars from wherever they travel or just from Cuba? Do they have to prove that the cigars were actually sold to them in Cuba?

On the plus side, a thaw with regards to humanitarian issues is huge. I'd rather see a better life for Cubans than easier access to cigars for me.

This is what I wonder too. Can they be purchased anywhere or just Cuba?

Great to hear something is being done about the whole out of date embargo!

[WhiteMamba]

I'm not sure that their would be any use for fauxhibas any more if they become legal. If the embargo is lifted wouldn't it just make Cuba another region like the DR and Nicaragua already are? They may be an initial influx to see what all the fuss is about but once that is over with and everyone tastes young CC's they won't want them any more. :2 The forbidden fruit will no longer be forbidden and they will lose their appeal to a lot of smokers. :2

[jjirons69]

I'm with Carlos...wait and see.

[kydsid]

As if any of us can do anything but wait and see what happens. Plus the door is only cracked, it won't be bad until commercial sale is authorized and that'll take Congress. I'll wager the first thing to happen is someone being arrested by ICE for reselling their $100 allotment.

[T.G]

I'm not sure that their would be any use for fauxhibas any more if they become legal. If the embargo is lifted wouldn't it just make Cuba another region like the DR and Nicaragua already are? They may be an initial influx to see what all the fuss is about but once that is over with and everyone tastes young CC's they won't want them any more. :2 The forbidden fruit will no longer be forbidden and they will lose their appeal to a lot of smokers. :2

iPhones are perfectly legal, yet you can buy counterfeits in just about every electronics shop in Hong Kong.

Ever seen a booze rack at the store in Mexico? They even counterfeit their own tequila.

Just because something is legal doesn't mean the people will be smart enough to realize that the bargain they are getting is because what they are buying is not authentic. People will buy what is cheap, and they'll do it more freely since there would be no repercussions.

[icehog3]

I suspect this is the beginning of the end to the embargo. I think by the time the next president takes office, it'll be completely ended.

Congress has a lot to say about that, and from all I've read, it won't be an easy fight.

[pnoon]

iPhones are perfectly legal, yet you can buy counterfeits in just about every electronics shop in Hong Kong.

Ever seen a booze rack at the store in Mexico? They even counterfeit their own tequila.

Just because something is legal doesn't mean the people will be smart enough to realize that the bargain they are getting is because what they are buying is not authentic. People will buy what is cheap, and they'll do it more freely since there would be no repercussions.

Hey Adam, Wanna buy a Rolex? :D

[T.G]

Hey Adam, Wanna buy a Rolex? :D

:wo

[Remo]

CA group trip to Cuba?…Epic!

[AdamJoshua]

"Oh I'm sure it's Cuban, the guy at the cigar place is the friend of a friend and he got it from a drawer hidden under the counter." :D

[AdamJoshua]

:wo

Oh thought he was talking to me, I already have a Rolox and a Movodo!

[markem]

People will buy what is cheap, and they'll do it more freely since there would be no repercussions.

https://smileyshack.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/sbiting_100-1081.gif :tu

[Solafide]

LoL I just heard on the news.. and the first reaction and self centered thought I instinctively had was CIGARS.

[Tio Gato]

LoL I just heard on the news.. and the first reaction and self centered thought I instinctively had was CIGARS.
I thought of Cuban women.:dr

[bobarian]

Not too concerned about cigars either way, but I have two words for you.
Legendario Elixir! :tu:banger:noon

[WhiteMamba]

I thought of Cuban women.:dr

:r :r you better make sure they're not fake

[markem]

Legendario Elixir! :tu:banger:noon

Fine if you bring it back, but if it is imported, expect the California prices to, well, make a trip to Cuba to buy it seem affordable.

[TNT009]

About damn time!

[mosesbotbol]

President needs a win to go on his legacy beyond killing Bin Laden. This is a good move as it will polarize many GOP candidates unless they join the band wagon.

Rubio does not stand a chance as becoming president right now.

Many Americans don't understand the whole embargo at this point and I am glad to see this moving forward, but some skepticism is inevitable when the government does anything.

[Ashcan Bill]

Congress has a lot to say about that, and from all I've read, it won't be an easy fight.

Very true. But the new Congress will be extremely business friendly, and business stands to profit the most from the lifting of the embargo. I give it two years at the outside. ;)

[Drphilwv]

I've had some Cuban rum while traveling. It was quite nice. I'm excited about the prospect of a nice box of CC being shipped to my mailbox with a half case of Havana Club

[JohnRogers]

The embargo has been obvious failure. The USA has a policy of changing China through engagement, yeah I kind of just rolled my eyes. Perhaps real change to Cuba can come from engagement. Raul Castro seems to hint he is open to change in Cuba. As we get excited about cigars we shouldn't forget Cuba is run by a brutal regime.

Does anybody know if human rights under Raul has been vastly improved?

[mosesbotbol]

I don't care much about being able to get cigars or rum as a reason to lift the embargo. Human rights and quality of life for the Cuban people are more important than scoring a box of Cohibas...

[icehog3]

Very true. But the new Congress will be extremely business friendly, and business stands to profit the most from the lifting of the embargo. I give it two years at the outside. ;)

Hmmmm....I will put up 5 Padrons to your 5 Habanos that it's not completely lifted by Dec. 17, 2016. ;) :) I'm not sure, but I think I have a decent chance to win that bet.

[mosesbotbol]

Funny, I was talking to the Singapore Habanos distributor the other night and he has much respect for NC's and for the obvious reasons; quality of the aged tobacco and consistent construction. Habanos smokers put up with a lot quality issues that are near non-existent on NC's. I am leaving the flavor differences out of the equation; those are personal preferences.

Line up 500 cigars; both Habanos and good NC's. How many NC's will be plugged vs. Habanos?

[Ashcan Bill]

Hmmmm....I will put up 5 Padrons to your 5 Habanos that it's not completely lifted by Dec. 17, 2016. ;) :) I'm not sure, but I think I have a decent chance to win that bet.

As long as you aren't betting Gurkhas, I'll accept your gentlemanly wager. After all, I have K Street on my side. :D

[badbriar]

"Oh I'm sure it's Cuban, the guy at the cigar place is the friend of a friend and he got it from a drawer hidden under the counter." :D

I saw exactly this just last Sunday at a local B&M! Too funny! :r

[Blueface]

Does anybody know if human rights under Raul has been vastly improved?

Yup.
In five years, Alan Gross lost 100 pounds and a number of teeth, along with partial eyesight, in spite of their fantastic medical system (as I chuckle in sarcasm).
Yup.
Improved tremendously.
Here is before and after.

[icehog3]

Funny, I was talking to the Singapore Habanos distributor the other night and he has much respect for NC's and for the obvious reasons; quality of the aged tobacco and consistent construction. Habanos smokers put up with a lot quality issues that are near non-existent on NC's. I am leaving the flavor differences out of the equation; those are personal preferences.

Line up 500 cigars; both Habanos and good NC's. How many NC's will be plugged vs. Habanos?

Moses, I did an experiemnt on another public forum last year. Numerous people logged all their cigars for the year, NC and CC. Good draw, tight draw, plugged draw. I store my cigars around 61-62% RH. For well over 500 Cuban cigars I smoked in 2013, I had 3 plugs. While that was worse than the NCs (0 plugged), it still ain't bad.

As long as you aren't betting Gurkhas, I'll accept your gentlemanly wager. After all, I have K Street on my side. :D

:D Nice. Obviously I will pay you off before 12/17/16 if you are right....

[mosesbotbol]

Yup.
In five years, Alan Gross lost 100 pounds and a number of teeth, along with partial eyesight, in spite of their fantastic medical system (as I chuckle in sarcasm).
Yup.
Improved tremendously.
Here is before and after.

I'm sure they are allocating what little health care resources they have on prisoners, right. There's a good amount of Cuban doctors throughout Asia and are highly regarded.

[Blueface]

I'm sure they are allocating what little health care resources they have on prisoners, right. There's a good amount of Cuban doctors throughout Asia and are highly regarded.

I am sure the Novacane that teeth extractions are being done without is also in Asia.

Cigars wise, this Cuban will take a Padron Anni any day. Bet both will cost about the same soon as prices increase on CC's.

[JohnRogers]

In five years, Alan Gross lost 100 pounds and a number of teeth, along with partial eyesight, in spite of their fantastic medical system (as I chuckle in sarcasm).
I chuckled about that when I saw his mouth empty of teeth on the news broadcast. Can you spot two interesting items in the photo?

As for CC vs NC, I'd like to finally be able to judge my self. I've had almost ten CC all but one miserable. Yet you can't judge a country's cigars based on just a few you had.

[The Poet]

I sympathize fully with Carlos here, as with the full Cuban-American community. I do not believe Raul is much better than Fidel, and do not think the lot of the common Cuban citizen has been much improved in recent years despite the announced "reforms". Still, the fact remains that 50+ years of US embargo has done little to bring the Cuban government to a more amenable relationship with either America or its own people. In fact, the removal of most support following the collapse of the Soviet Union, and the imminent prospect of a reduction of support from a struggling Venezuela has done more to bring about a reassessment by Cuba's leadership of their future. Thus it may indeed be time for the US to try a different approach to this sticky issue.

Albert Einstein famously said that definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting a different outcome. This has been America's tack since JFK first signed the embargo back in 1960. A change now might be an error, but it seems to me that stubborn resistance to change is decidedly one.

[Blueface]

I have always been divided on this subject as truly see both sides of the fence.
All I can and will say on the subject of the embargo is Raul Castro has just verbally urged the U.S. to end it.
That speaks volumes to me.
It may not have caused change in their regime but it sure as heck must be one hell of a rope around their neck.

[The Poet]

It may not have caused change in their regime but it sure as heck must be one hell of a rope around their neck.

Which begs the question, my brother: Who has been strangled more, the regime or the common folk?

[mosesbotbol]

If we lift the embargo and don't like how things are going 5-10 years down the road, we can renew it again. Once Cuban leadership gets a taste of US dollars, their regime will crumble quick. Pepsico and Coca Cola have enough money to make all of them get in line.

[8zeros]

My 2 cents.
I wouldn't go to Cuba. There are plenty of other destitute, and not so, islands in the Caribbean.
I smoke mostly Cuban cigars because they are cheaper for the value. I haven't bought any in a few years because my income doesn't justify having a ten year supply vs. a five year one. I haven't bought any NCs either.
You would be insane to invest or finance anything in Cuba unless you could deal with them like a drug lord. The whole world could if they wanted to and they don't.
Besides it being a brutal, dictatorial, police state, oligarchy, (wait, that sounds familliar ;) ), it may be a nice place.
Nothing has changed as far as trade goes. Where do I go to sell them a few containers full of vitamins and pet supplies?:r What would they pay me with? Chinese yuan? Oh yeah, those would be containers from China anyway. I could have them drop shipped.
I hear they got a lot of nice girls out there, a haw haw haw, a haw haw haw haw.
You can go there and bring back $100 worth of stuff, big cheer.

[WhiteMamba]

How were CC's viewed before the 60's? Anyone around here old enough to remember? We're they seen as anything special before the embargo?

[kydsid]

How were CC's viewed before the 60's? Anyone around here old enough to remember? We're they seen as anything special before the embargo?

Not old enough but know some of the history. Basically before the embargo a cigar was a cigar, it just happened that a lot of cigars or cigar tobacco came from Cuba. A lot of tobacco came to the US for rolling, which resulted in Havana Clears, a term describing tobacco cleared by Customs. And I know several old timers who recall cc being available in stores for quite a while after the embargo.

[mosesbotbol]

How were CC's viewed before the 60's? Anyone around here old enough to remember? We're they seen as anything special before the embargo?

Yes they were and actually a lot of American rolled cigars were using Cuban tobacco. NC grown tobacco was in the minority for sure.

[M1903A1]

How were CC's viewed before the 60's? Anyone around here old enough to remember? We're they seen as anything special before the embargo?

Absolutely they were, though of course they didn't have the "forbidden fruit" air about them. I remember some of my father's comments about Cuban cigars (he started smoking cigars in the years before the embargo), and as a passing element of historical research I've noticed advertisers' emphasis on Cuban cigars, or at least Cuban tobacco. Realize that there were something like 920 different brands of cigars made in Cuba before the embargo...granted, many of them were regional, city-specific, or even neighborhood-specific within Cuba, but at the same time many of the marcas were American-owned and targeted at the American market.

[M1903A1]

Yes they were and actually a lot of American rolled cigars were using Cuban tobacco. NC grown tobacco was in the minority for sure.

I recall reading (maybe in the book on the Cuesta-Ray story) that, when the Embargo came crashing down (almost) out of the blue on February 7, 1962, the American cigar industry was caught in a panic, so much had they come to depend on Cuban leaf.

[mosesbotbol]

The more intriguing question should be "what cigars outside of Cuba grown tobacco were popular at that time"?

[RWhisenand]

I chuckled about that when I saw his mouth empty of teeth on the news broadcast. Can you spot two interesting items in the photo?

As for CC vs NC, I'd like to finally be able to judge my self. I've had almost ten CC all but one miserable. Yet you can't judge a country's cigars based on just a few you had.

A photo of Che Guevara, and a blaster issued from the Empire to senior clone squad leaders.

Do I win anything?

[icehog3]

I suspect this is the beginning of the end to the embargo. I think by the time the next president takes office, it'll be completely ended.

Congress has a lot to say about that, and from all I've read, it won't be an easy fight.

Very true. But the new Congress will be extremely business friendly, and business stands to profit the most from the lifting of the embargo. I give it two years at the outside. ;)

Hmmmm....I will put up 5 Padrons to your 5 Habanos that it's not completely lifted by Dec. 17, 2016. ;) :) I'm not sure, but I think I have a decent chance to win that bet.

As long as you aren't betting Gurkhas, I'll accept your gentlemanly wager. After all, I have K Street on my side. :D

And exactly two years TO THE DAY from this "wager", an awesome fiver of CCs shows up at my door. I had no idea what they were for until Bill reminded me of this. A man of integrity, with great taste in cigars! Thank you, Bill, you are a gentleman and great BOTL. :D

[Porch Dweller]

:cl Very cool!

[The Poet]

But it's only the 16th today. There's still one day to go!

[icehog3]

But it's only the 16th today. There's still one day to go!

Unless you're related to Raul, I think I'm good. ;)

[The Poet]

We are all sons of Adam and daughters of Eve, brother.

[yourchoice]

Wow, that's awesome. WTG, Bill!

[pnoon]

Thank you, Bill, you are a gentleman and great BOTL. :D

I've met Bill. And herfed with him on multiple occasions.
I couldn't agree more, Tom.

[icehog3]

We are all sons of Adam and daughters of Eve, brother.

I'm nobody's daughter. Thomas. But I am, and always will be, your friend. Live long and prosper.

[The Poet]

I'm nobody's daughter. Thomas. But I am, and always will be, your friend. Live long and prosper.

Back at you, but live longer and prosperer. :D

[CigarNut]

Very cool thing to do, Bill!

[Ashcan Bill]

I can remember crap like this but not what I had for dinner two nights ago. :D

But I figured Tom deserved a little Christmas cheer regardless for what he (and Peter) do for all of us here. They commit a lot of time to keeping the funny train running.

And for those of you who really pay attention, I have to confess I slipped an Epicure No. 2 in there. ;)

[icehog3]

I can remember crap like this but not what I had for dinner two nights ago. :D

But I figured Tom deserved a little Christmas cheer regardless for what he (and Peter) do for all of us here. They commit a lot of time to keeping the funny train running.

And for those of you who really pay attention, I have to confess I slipped an Epicure No. 2 in there. ;)

Obviously YOU pay pretty close attention, Bill. ;) :r

[Dave128]

Awesome thing to do, Bill.

[mosesbotbol]

United is flying direct to Havana from Newark.