Starting a brick and mortar

[Crusader]

Anybody here start one up recently. Buddy and I are kicking it around. My guess is the fed makes it tough but would be interested to hear someone's story.

[Zane]

Anybody here start one up recently. Buddy and I are kicking it around. My guess is the fed makes it tough but would be interested to hear someone's story.

I think your biggest issue will be local trouble. Smoking bans and all that.,

[mosesbotbol]

Unless you have a sweetheart deal on rent, I would not open a tobacco B&M. All the odds are stacked against you unfortunately. Opening a cigar lounge, provided you can serve alcohol is another story and would need further consideration.

If you opened a business that bread & butter was something else and includes cigars and least you have a core business to sustain itself.

[Crusader]

Unless you have a sweetheart deal on rent, I would not open a tobacco B&M. All the odds are stacked against you unfortunately. Opening a cigar lounge, provided you can serve alcohol is another story and would need further consideration.

If you opened a business that bread & butter was something else and includes cigars and least you have a core business to sustain itself.

This is more in line of what we are thinking. A high end lounge gentlemans club, no not strippers, where things like shaving razors, suits, higher end alchohol, traditional items. A place where professional and semi professional guys would want to hang out and watch a game smoke a stick and check out some stuff for him.

[shilala]

I think your idea has merit if there's the demographic to support it.
I'd think broader, with lots of stuff to shop. Then the "lounge" as an afterthought.
Moses hit it on the head, I suppose I didn't need to parrot him.

What I wanted to say is that I personally think B&M smoking isn't going to be around much longer. It sucks, but I think it's inevitable that the anti-smoking legislators will push them to extinction if they try to hang on as they are today.
Whether someone can even open a new smoking area legally is another question you'd need to answer. I'm sure it completely depends on your state.

[ColdCuts]

It sounds like a dream come true, owning and operating a B&M. But, sadly, I bet it would prove to be a nightmare with bans as they are and only getting worse. I'm afraid the B&M is going to go the way of the dodo.

As has already been said more than once, you'd obviously have to open where you've got enough suit-wearing, top-shelf liquor-drinking, cigar-smoking, 'professional and semi-professional guys' to frequent your business. It would be foolish, for example, to open that kind of a place in Brooklyn. If, on the other hand, you opened a B&M that catered to jeans-wearing, mid-shelf liquor-drinking, non-professional guys, and you carried, say, beard grooming supplies, and had a tattooist working alongside your walk-in humidor, then you should definitely consider Brooklyn.

And, I'd like to submit an application to work there, please.

[CRIMPS]

What I wanted to say is that I personally think B&M smoking isn't going to be around much longer. It sucks, but I think it's inevitable that the anti-smoking legislators will push them to extinction if they try to hang on as they are today.
.

Unfortunately, I agree with Scott on this. My uninformed and uneducated recommendation, not even worth :2 , would be to diversify as much as possible.

Good luck. Where there is a will, there is a way.

[badbriar]

IMHO, it all depends on the location. Here in Florida, there are a lot of B&M shops, but few are good ones. By good, I don't mean big. I mean good with service and offerings. Where I live, there are a lot of cigar enthusiasts that are really looking for good places to go. Interesting thing is that there may be one shop packed to standing room only and another one just down the street that is nearly empty. All boils down to service and the connection with clients. Very similar to pubs that way. I know a guy who has a primary job that bought a poorly performing small shop. After renovations to update and clean up, he's doing well and has been in the black from his second month. His thing is superb customer service. I say go for it and good luck! Live the dream while you can. BTW, restrictions are not that bad here at all. Probably because FL is a service based state. :2
RR

[nutcracker]

Luxury tobacco is simply under siege.
I would be very cautious.

[RWhisenand]

I think you need to consider how much you need to make, are you comfortable already? Do you need this income to make ends meet? Are you semi retired and looking for a hobby business? Where would this be located? What are the margins on the merchandise you wish to sell? Is your target demographic strong in your area, and do they have disposable income? What are you going to offer to beat CBid or Amazon?

Do some hard marketing research, and avoid cherry picking your results.

[ApexAZ]

I am fortunate enough to be within 5 miles of one of the best cigar bars in the entire valley (Phoenix) and I would be absolutely shocked if the owner isn't making money hand over fist. They sell a ridiculous amount of tobacco and liquor and the staff are amazing. They do a really good job of making you feel welcome and important and I've seen them double in size in like 3 years since they opened. They have an amazing selection of whiskey and they always rotate new craft beers on tap. Not only are they drawing cigar connoisseurs, but also whiskey and beer connoisseurs. It's a great way to get people interested in other tastes.

The moral of the story? If you can serve drinks and your place has an awesome vibe in a good location, then you'll do well so long as you have the demand from the proper demographic.

[Crusader]

Both of us are in retail rv dealership. I am administration and he in finance. My ideal is to make men Men again! Dudes now days grow out nasty scraggly beards dress in t shirts and cargo shorts and have added a new color to the wheel called Real tree . The feminization of men has also been pushed to a point. Some of us remember when the dad on TV was the wise all knowing thought of reason and now on the shows they are bumbling fools that the kids are smarter than the parents.
My dream would be a place where guys can get back to feeling like a man and hopefully dress and act more like a figurehead than a dunderhead!

: sorry rant over ;)

[Chainsaw13]

I am fortunate enough to be within 5 miles of one of the best cigar bars in the entire valley (Phoenix) and I would be absolutely shocked if the owner isn't making money hand over fist. They sell a ridiculous amount of tobacco and liquor and the staff are amazing. They do a really good job of making you feel welcome and important and I've seen them double in size in like 3 years since they opened. They have an amazing selection of whiskey and they always rotate new craft beers on tap. Not only are they drawing cigar connoisseurs, but also whiskey and beer connoisseurs. It's a great way to get people interested in other tastes.

The moral of the story? If you can serve drinks and your place has an awesome vibe in a good location, then you'll do well so long as you have the demand from the proper demographic.

Fox's? Was there a couple weeks ago when in Phx. Great place.

[mosesbotbol]

You have to figure out who you core clientele will be. Is it business professionals & executives, college students, blue collar... Each have their own demands and narrow focus.

The "something for everyone" approach may not be ideal. Doing fewer things better may hit the nail on the head. Finding out what your market is, is not easy task. You may be too close to too see the forest for the trees. Even the location itself could determine your niche.

[ApexAZ]

Both of us are in retail rv dealership. I am administration and he in finance. My ideal is to make men Men again! Dudes now days grow out nasty scraggly beards dress in t shirts and cargo shorts and have added a new color to the wheel called Real tree . The feminization of men has also been pushed to a point. Some of us remember when the dad on TV was the wise all knowing thought of reason and now on the shows they are bumbling fools that the kids are smarter than the parents.
My dream would be a place where guys can get back to feeling like a man and hopefully dress and act more like a figurehead than a dunderhead!

: sorry rant over ;)

I'm actually in the market for an RV. Do you sell 5th Wheels? Can I contact you with some questions about the whole process (i.e. how can I save money? :))

As far as the type of demographic, money doesn't discriminate. If you want to make money, sell cigars to anyone you can legally sell to in the highest volume possible. That's just my opinion. Even still, Fox seems to understand the need to place the highest priority to the people who keep returning over those who disrupt the groovy atmosphere. I think that's a good approach. The cigar enthusiasts are the bread and butter. The bar goers and casual smokers are the icing on the cake.

[ApexAZ]

Fox's? Was there a couple weeks ago when in Phx. Great place.

Yes, Fox Cigar bar in Gilbert. It's my home away from home!

[ColdCuts]

Both of us are in retail rv dealership. I am administration and he in finance. My ideal is to make men Men again! Dudes now days grow out nasty scraggly beards dress in t shirts and cargo shorts and have added a new color to the wheel called Real tree . The feminization of men has also been pushed to a point. Some of us remember when the dad on TV was the wise all knowing thought of reason and now on the shows they are bumbling fools that the kids are smarter than the parents.
My dream would be a place where guys can get back to feeling like a man and hopefully dress and act more like a figurehead than a dunderhead!

: sorry rant over ;)

I've never owned a pair of cargo shorts. I do, however, have a big beard. And when I'm not at work I often wear t-shirts. And I promise you, Crusader, I am as much a man or more than the suit-wearing demographic you intend to build your B&M around. You want to open an exclusive lounge for clean-shaven rich guys, that's fine. You're entitled to do so. I'll go someplace else. But understand this: being a man is a thing of substance that does not require a barber or a tailor. And sitcom dads are not the best barometer for the contemporary definition of manliness. :2

[Subvet642]

Risk is the moral justification for profit. If the rewards are worth the risk, then go for it. But, like everyone else has basically said: do your homework and study your demographic. Personally, I like your idea, I'd practically live there.

[Porch Dweller]

I've never owned a pair of cargo shorts. I do, however, have a big beard. And when I'm not at work I often wear t-shirts. And I promise you, Crusader, I am as much a man or more than the suit-wearing demographic you intend to build your B&M around. You want to open an exclusive lounge for clean-shaven rich guys, that's fine. You're entitled to do so. I'll go someplace else. But understand this: being a man is a thing of substance that does not require a barber or a tailor. And sitcom dads are not the best barometer for the contemporary definition of manliness. :2

Yeah, I'm not sure how my beard, my T-shirt with "My Gun License is the Second Amendment" written on the front, and my cargo shorts which expose my hairy calves somehow are symptoms of "the feminization of men". Seems rather counter-intuitive to me. But what do I know, I'm only a whiskey-slugging, cigar-smoking, beer-brewing, BBQ-ing veteran of almost a quarter century in the military; perhaps my "feminization" is so complete I don't even recognize it in me. I guess I'll go watch some TV shows from the '50's so I can learn what I should be doing as a man. That is, if I can get to the remote before I menstruate all over it.

[CRIMPS]

:po

Whoever makes a Mad Men reference first wins. :r

[Dave128]

Both of us are in retail rv dealership. I am administration and he in finance. My ideal is to make men Men again! Dudes now days grow out nasty scraggly beards dress in t shirts and cargo shorts and have added a new color to the wheel called Real tree . The feminization of men has also been pushed to a point. Some of us remember when the dad on TV was the wise all knowing thought of reason and now on the shows they are bumbling fools that the kids are smarter than the parents.
My dream would be a place where guys can get back to feeling like a man and hopefully dress and act more like a figurehead than a dunderhead!

: sorry rant over ;)

I've never owned a pair of cargo shorts. I do, however, have a big beard. And when I'm not at work I often wear t-shirts. And I promise you, Crusader, I am as much a man or more than the suit-wearing demographic you intend to build your B&M around. You want to open an exclusive lounge for clean-shaven rich guys, that's fine. You're entitled to do so. I'll go someplace else. But understand this: being a man is a thing of substance that does not require a barber or a tailor. And sitcom dads are not the best barometer for the contemporary definition of manliness. :2

Yeah, I'm not sure how my beard, my T-shirt with "My Gun License is the Second Amendment" written on the front, and my cargo shorts which expose my hairy calves somehow are symptoms of "the feminization of men". Seems rather counter-intuitive to me. But what do I know, I'm only a whiskey-slugging, cigar-smoking, beer-brewing, BBQ-ing veteran of almost a quarter century in the military; perhaps my "feminization" is so complete I don't even recognize it in me. I guess I'll go watch some TV shows from the '50's so I can learn what I should be doing as a man. That is, if I can get to the remote before I menstruate all over it.

Just an observation, Crusader, but not many of us on this board would be eligible to enter your establishment. I'm not so sure your most recent post was very well thought out.

[AdamJoshua]

Just an observation, Crusader, but not many of us on this board would be eligible to enter your establishment.

Or that would even classify what he considers a man in general. :r If i DID get cargo pants, but had them camo or cut off some of my old BDUs would that be manly? :confused:

[Dave128]

Or that would even classify what he considers a man in general. :r If i DID get cargo pants, but had them camo or cut off some of my old BDUs would that be manly? :confused:

No.

[ApexAZ]

I personally really enjoy wearing cargo shorts and I'm 35. They are comfortable and the pockets do come in handy from time to time.

[cmitch]

The most successful shop I know is the Cigar Room in Madison, Alabama in a booming N. Alabama metropolitan area. No alcohol is served. It's BYOB. There are 3 lounge areas and all are for everybody. No tooty snooty stuff here. One is quiet and gives someone a place to watch TV or read. Another has a poker table, game area, juke box, and pool table. The outside retail area has a sitting area which has become my favorite because the conversation is lively and interesting.

Next door to the shop is a place called 'Wish You Were Beer.' They sell only microbrews and do a whopping business. The cigar shop owner owns the entire strip mall so all businesses compliment his shop. A hairdresser on one end (while the ladies get their hair done, the husbands can hang out at the cigar shop). A Thai restaurant is to the left of the shop.

He is successful because customer service is No. 1. 99% of the folks appreciate it. The staff is nice and helpful. The owner, Donald Waddell, is one helluva nice guy along with his right hand man, Donny Muse. If you want to look at shops before you open yours, I suggest you plan a trip here before doing anything.

[Crusader]

I appoligize if I hurt some feelings, it was not the intentions. My reference is to understand our type of shop we are looking for. We live in a town of about 50k and the only place to buy "premiums" is at a Smoker Friendly that is in the seedy part of town.
Yes, I absolutely think there has been a de-emphasis of the gentleman in our American culture, especially in I'm ok you're ok groups. Hey, I wear T-shirts and cargos too, but, they should not be your first choice out to eat and especially to church.
Why would I want to do a business deal with someone who does not care about appearance in any way.
Anywho, the guys I know will not even go to the one place in town due to the clientele that hang out there and my buddy and I do go go there minimum once a week in the winter for a mini herf because they do have a decent lounge that no one really uses.
Our idea would be to reach the other half that are missing out. The sticks would be our enjoyment and the others stuff to suplement.

And on the rvs. Heartland rv is probably the most solid manufacturer with Open Range / Highland ridge being a close second. Otherwise they are mostly the same using the same parts. 95% of owning an rv is your dealer you buy it from and how well they stand behind the product they sell. As the Warranty Manager I can tell you those two company's I mentioned back their product and what they don't we do as long as it's not absurd neglect. I pay a lot of claims for people on things that are not covered and that's what keeps us in business. Hell, we even do a lot of other dealerships warranty because they suck and won't help out their own.

[AdamJoshua]

No.

:lv

[ApexAZ]

I appoligize if I hurt some feelings, it was not the intentions. My reference is to understand our type of shop we are looking for. We live in a town of about 50k and the only place to buy "premiums" is at a Smoker Friendly that is in the seedy part of town.
Yes, I absolutely think there has been a de-emphasis of the gentleman in our American culture, especially in I'm ok you're ok groups. Hey, I wear T-shirts and cargos too, but, they should not be your first choice out to eat and especially to church.
Why would I want to do a business deal with someone who does not care about appearance in any way.
Anywho, the guys I know will not even go to the one place in town due to the clientele that hang out there and my buddy and I do go go there minimum once a week in the winter for a mini herf because they do have a decent lounge that no one really uses.
Our idea would be to reach the other half that are missing out. The sticks would be our enjoyment and the others stuff to suplement.

And on the rvs. Heartland rv is probably the most solid manufacturer with Open Range / Highland ridge being a close second. Otherwise they are mostly the same using the same parts. 95% of owning an rv is your dealer you buy it from and how well they stand behind the product they sell. As the Warranty Manager I can tell you those two company's I mentioned back their product and what they don't we do as long as it's not absurd neglect. I pay a lot of claims for people on things that are not covered and that's what keeps us in business. Hell, we even do a lot of other dealerships warranty because they suck and won't help out their own.


Thanks! I am actually looking very hard at Heartland Sundance and Elkridge models. The difficulty I'm having is trying to determine MSRP :) I suspect the dealers inflate the MSRP, but I have no way of knowing for sure. They have a few 32-35' with floorplans I like in the $40k range, but I'm really trying to be out the door for 35k or less.

As far as the cigar shop, a town of 50k isn't a lot of people. Can a town that size actually support more than one? Is the demographic you are seeking out actually large enough to support you? You said there is a nicer lounge that rarely gets used, why is that? Is it because the current clientele runs off the others, or is it because there simply aren't enough others? In such a small town I would be wary of opening something unless I was certain I could dominate. I'm from a town that size and unless yours is very different, the ratio of what you might call sophisticated affluent versus every day people is pretty small.

[Crusader]

Here is our website you could compare with. Again we go way beyond what most dealers do. Ask your dealer to show you the entire dealership and have them explain how they will take care of you after the sale. We automatically set up 60 day and ten month inspections to help hammer out problems while in warranty.
As the saying goes , "People forget a cheap price log before a cheap service"
http://richsonsrv.com/

[Chimneyfish]

location location location!
developers, developers, developers!

Subways, Subways, Subways!!

[ApexAZ]

Here is our website you could compare with. Again we go way beyond what most dealers do. Ask your dealer to show you the entire dealership and have them explain how they will take care of you after the sale. We automatically set up 60 day and ten month inspections to help hammer out problems while in warranty.
As the saying goes , "People forget a cheap price log before a cheap service"
http://richsonsrv.com/

Since this is beginning to stray off the topic of cigars, would it be okay if I PM you?

[kydsid]

My opinion after visiting stores from one end of the country top to bottom left to right. Customer service first, lounge quality second, retail selection third. I will revisit a great lounge with good amenities and little to no cigars before a place with every cigar made and a folding chair in front of a b&w TV.

Next I don't think a town, any town, of 50k people can support cigar b&m.

[Crusader]

Since this is beginning to stray off the topic of cigars, would it be okay if I PM you?

Sure

[Crusader]

Since this is beginning to stray off the topic of cigars, would it be okay if I PM you?

My opinion after visiting stores from one end of the country top to bottom left to right. Customer service first, lounge quality second, retail selection third. I will revisit a great lounge with good amenities and little to no cigars before a place with every cigar made and a folding chair in front of a b&w TV.

Next I don't think a town, any town, of 50k people can support cigar b&m.

Maybe, we are more of a tri cities area with a town of 20k 15 mi away and a college town of 40k about 35 mi. That's why would be more of what I call an executive type of business specializing in finer but affordable things for men-(P

[mosesbotbol]

A barbershop with cigars would be a nice combo. Good way to kill time while in queue.

[Crusader]

A barbershop with cigars would be a nice combo. Good way to kill time while in queue.

I'm on board. Cigars, lounge, suites, straight razors and a barber. BOOM:tu

[RandJCigars]

I just opened my second cigar lounge / b&m and I would echo what these guys have said; if you live in a good state where taxes aren't ridiculous and bans aren't prevalent, than go for it. I am in Texas, specifically south of Houston. Houston has a smoking ban but an amendment to the ordinance allows smoking indoors as long as your sales are 90% or more tobacco.

More specifically, my new lounge is in Friendswood....where there are NO smoking bans. Where the city council voted to allow business owners to make their own decisions on whether or not to allow smoking. (I love Friendswood...I live there). Furthermore, Friendswood has no ordinance or law against smoking AND drinking...in other words...I could hypothetically sell alcohol eventually if I wanted to.

Things to think about going into it:
1. How much square feet are you wanting vs needing. My original store in Pearland is a whopping 895 square feet...tiny. However, because of my setup, I still have 350 facings. My friendswood store is 1450 square feet. I have 500 facings there, a large lounge, an office, and a good sized warehouse in the back for my wholesale business. Moral is...what do you actually need vs what do you want? Do you need an office? Do you need a storage room? Are you wanting a walk-in or a cabinet system (I am a huge proponent of a cabinet system). What capacity are you aiming for for your smoking area/lounge?

2. Do you have a GOOD contractor ready to dedicate up to 3 months for a commercial build out? It would help to find a contractor that can sub out a guy who is familiar with really good HVAC systems/ERV systems/ Ventilation methods. Make sure if you do go forward with this...that ALL subs know the scope of the work. They need to know every detail so they don't unbid it...only to comeback and request a change order because the project needs this or that.

3. The location you want will determine where you get your cigars; direct from manufacturers or from wholesalers/distributors. It may not be the same where you live, but here in the Houston area....if a new lounge/b&m opens within 5 miles of another established cigar business...that lounge will not be open direct. In other words, the reps will not open direct accounts with you for the respective manufactures. I wholesale and distribute all brands...so believe me I know...I reek the benefits of guys that do that.

4. The Lease Language. This is important. Most leases have a section or paragraph that is titled "Use". This paragraph is, by default, "retail". However if you want to allow smoking...you must demand that the paragraph be changed and worded to suite your business. I do this with all my leases...it simply necessary to protect you and your business.

5. Cost. This is probably the biggest factor for anyone opening any type of business. Just to give you a rough estimate, my new lounge cost me right around $100,000 for buildout/construction + Furniture/Fixtures (which includes TV's, Display Cases, Cabinets/Millwork, etc). The Cigar Inventory alone was an additional $50,000. Accessory Orders totaled $5000 (humidors, briar pipes, lighters, cutters, butane, humidors, ashtrays, etc). This was for a 1450 square foot space that had never been built out so we had to do it all; Demising wall, all interior partition walls, plumbing, electrical, HVAC/ventilation, floors, paint, ceiling grid and tiles, etc. Plan well, establish a good relationship with your bank so you can get a good business loan. Also get a business credit card from Capitol One...they have one that gives 2% cash back and the points never expire. A card like that will pay you back so much...you won't believe it.

If you have any other questions, feel free to ask!
Good Luck!

Jimmy

[mosesbotbol]

I just opened my second cigar lounge / b&m and I would echo what these guys have said; if you live in a good state where taxes aren't ridiculous and bans aren't prevalent, than go for it.

How's business? Sounds like you have a lot invested. Between paying off your loans, along with salary, BAU operating costs, etc... Is there any left over? I don't mean for you to open your books, but to just illustrate that at the end of the day, the margins aren't that big and any missteps could wash away any profit.

Perhaps I am wrong and the cigar business is flush with cash?

[AdamJoshua]

Jimmy that was an excellent and very informative post, never wanted to open a B&M myself but I still found it interesting from a general business side (my father owned a few bars and even a donut shop). Thanks for taking the time!

[RandJCigars]

Jimmy that was an excellent and very informative post, never wanted to open a B&M myself but I still found it interesting from a general business side (my father owned a few bars and even a donut shop). Thanks for taking the time!


It was my pleasure, I'm just glad to help. I was lucky to have my father help me open my first store, but most are not that lucky. My father has been in the Liquor and Tobacco businesses for 32 years now...so I had a great resource. I have personally been in the tobacco business since I was 18; I started with online Hookah sales. I used some of that money to start my wholesale cigar business believe it or not! I am now a full blown Cigar B & M / Lounge owner and I also wholesale and distribute all premium cigars to a handful of stores. On top of all that...I have my own brand of Cigar, named Inception, that is now in 92 stores across 24 states.

If you're going to get into something...you gotta go 100%, otherwise you're wasting your time. I am open to answer any questions for anyone else considering this business as a career path.

Thanks,

Jimmy

[stearns]

Excellent post Jimmy, thanks :tu

[Crusader]

Yes, thank you. Your rough numbers are better than we thought. Hmmm, it's so crazy it just might work after all ;)

[RandJCigars]

Yes, thank you. Your rough numbers are better than we thought. Hmmm, it's so crazy it just might work after all ;)

Hope it helps! Let me know if you need any other questions answered. If you would be interested in ordering from us wholesale when you're all up and running, if and when, I'll be glad to discuss that as well.

Thanks,

Jimmy

[mosesbotbol]

I have personally been in the tobacco business since I was 18; I started with online Hookah sales. I used some of that money to start my wholesale cigar business believe it or not! I am now a full blown Cigar B & M / Lounge owner and I also wholesale and distribute all premium cigars to a handful of stores. On top of all that...I have my own brand of Cigar, named Inception, that is now in 92 stores across 24 states.

If you're going to get into something...you gotta go 100%, otherwise you're wasting your time.

Wow, good for you! Love hearing that entrepreneurship is alive and well!

[brigey57]

Anybody here start one up recently. Buddy and I are kicking it around. My guess is the fed makes it tough but would be interested to hear someone's story.

Unless you have a sweetheart deal on rent, I would not open a tobacco B&M. All the odds are stacked against you unfortunately. Opening a cigar lounge, provided you can serve alcohol is another story and would need further consideration.

If you opened a business that bread & butter was something else and includes cigars and least you have a core business to sustain itself.

I agree, tough crowd for a B&M cigar shop; plus I think you'll have better luck with a cigar lounge with optional adult beverages. I would also go to a friendly location. Get your licences and permits ahead of time before you sink a ton of money into your business. If you'll need funding good luck with that one too. :2