Boveda Packs Regeneration

[shilala]

I use a lot of 65% Boveda packs. I often find them rock hard among "stuff".
A couple weeks ago I found two, and I'd always guessed I could soak them in water to juice them up again, so I tried it.
It works just fine. No need for distilled water because dissolved solids can't pass through the membrane, anyways. There's just salt solutions in them to begin with, so there's no "right amount of water" to worry about, either. It's pretty awesome.

Awhile back I looked around to see if I could find some semi-permeable membrane of some sort to make big Boveda packs for my stuff. I never did leg it out, I got drawed off. I need to get back to that. :tu

[stearns]

Awhile back I looked around to see if I could find some semi-permeable membrane of some sort to make big Boveda packs for my stuff. I never did leg it out, I got drawed off. I need to get back to that. :tu

Please do, I'll be your test subject, you dont even have to pay me very much :tu

[hotreds]

I tried it also, but it seemed to turn the membrane yellow and make it very weak. I was afraid of it busting and ruining stogies.

[Subvet642]

I recharge my Boveda packs all the time. I just put them in a tupperware with a cup of water such that they don't get wet, and close it up. In a week, charged packs.

[T.G]

I've been recharging the boveda packs for years using basically the same method as Darren described, put them in a tupperware with a wet sponge and seal it up for a while.

I did recently toss one of the small wet-nap ones into a container of water to see what would happen, the labels/outer "paper" fell off within 24 hours, then it eventually expanded to about the size of a golf ball.

[shilala]

I just went and looked some more, I can't find any kind of membrane aside from dialysis stuff. Latex might work, dunno. I suppose I'll have to go search permeability by size.
It's not fun so far. I bet that's why I stopped looking before. :)

These big packs have been soaking for a couple weeks, at least. They haven't degraded a lick. :sh

[T.G]

I dunno Scott. I used RO water rather than tap, but I can't see that making a difference. Maybe the two sizes use different materials for the outer layer? This was one of the white colored packs if that helps any.

[Porch Dweller]

I recharge my Boveda packs all the time. I just put them in a tupperware with a cup of water such that they don't get wet, and close it up. In a week, charged packs.

:tpd:

[shilala]

I dunno Scott. I used RO water rather than tap, but I can't see that making a difference. Maybe the two sizes use different materials for the outer layer? This was one of the white colored packs if that helps any.
No clue at all. I bet you're right, though. The white ones seem different. I have the brown paper ones.

[EricF]

I recharge my Boveda packs all the time. I just put them in a tupperware with a cup of water such that they don't get wet, and close it up. In a week, charged packs.

:tpd:

^^^This^^^

[shilala]

I figured out what I can use to make packs. Now I just have to find some and this is a party. I'm looking forward to messing around with it. I already tested umpteen saturated salt solutions for use with SAP, but it all sucks cause the salt crawls all over. The only way to hold it in is pvc.

[Wharf Rat]

Take a look at the humi bags on this page. I just got some of these in a shipment from Atlantic. It's apparently what you want, built into a plastic bag.

http://www.sikarlan.com/OTHERS.htm

[T.G]

No clue at all. I bet you're right, though. The white ones seem different. I have the brown paper ones.

Here are some photos. If there is anything on it that you want examined or a closer shot of, LMK.

[Subvet642]

Here are some photos. If there is anything on it that you want examined or a closer shot of, LMK.

Adam, in that state, do they still maintain their set rh?

[mk05]

I just dunk the Boveda in water until it gets squishy again. Must have done it at least 5 times per bag. Works better with bigger ones.

[T.G]

Adam, in that state, do they still maintain their set rh?

I haven't bothered to check yet, so I'll have to test one and get back to you.

[Subvet642]

I haven't bothered to check yet, so I'll have to test one and get back to you.

Thanks. I would imagine that the salt concentration must have a lot to do with performance.

[hotreds]

I just dunk the Boveda in water until it gets squishy again. Must have done it at least 5 times per bag. Works better with bigger ones.

I'll hafta try that, I have quite a few of these. Does it matter how hard they've gotten, or should they still have some "squish" to them?

[longknocker]

I regenerate mine, too. I also wonder if The RH is accurate after this.:confused:

[BlkDrew]

I'll hafta try that, I have quite a few of these. Does it matter how hard they've gotten, or should they still have some "squish" to them?

It will regenerate from completely crisp.

[Lockspur]

I have 2 84% brown packs...stiff as boards. Will try this and see what happens. :)

[shilala]

I haven't bothered to check yet, so I'll have to test one and get back to you.
There's no reason it should change, but I'm looking forward to hearing what you find out.
Just throw it in a ziplock bag with your hygro?

[T.G]

There's no reason it should change, but I'm looking forward to hearing what you find out.
Just throw it in a ziplock bag with your hygro?

That's what I would think too, but it's simple enough to check. Although I have to find my hygro first. I think I accidentally burred it in one of the troop coolers. :r

I'm taking to Michael right now about the ones he has for sale.

[jjirons69]

Does the recharged Boveda still read the humidity specified on the pack after a charge?

[Zane]

Does the recharged Boveda still read the humidity specified on the pack after a charge?

It should. The salt ratio shouldnt change.

[hotreds]

Once you take them out of their bath, do you air dry them or?........

[Wharf Rat]

Once you take them out of their bath, do you air dry them or?........

I prefer to put them in a window with a Western exposure, so they get the afternoon sun. When, they're dry, the bags need to be gently massaged to fluff up the crystals.

[hotreds]

Thanks!

[Porch Dweller]

I prefer to put them in a window with a Western exposure, so they get the afternoon sun. When, they're dry, the bags need to be gently massaged to fluff up the crystals.

https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=HN.608027426289746696&pid=15.1

:D

[shilala]

Does the recharged Boveda still read the humidity specified on the pack after a charge?

It should. The salt ratio shouldnt change.
The ratio won't change a bit. It can't. A saturated salt solution (which is what Boveda packs are) can only ever be the RH it is. The reason that's a constant is because of the volume of the Boveda packs. You couldn't get enough water in one of those packets to dilute the salt far enough that it wouldn't continue being saturated. (Saturated chemically speaking.)
Different salts achieve a different RH over themselves based on their composition. Sodium Chloride, table salt, yields 75.67% RH at 10*C.
This is a really good read for all stuff salt/RH related, and will show you guys the different RH values for different salts. (http://nvlpubs.nist.gov/nistpubs/jres/81A/jresv81An1p89_A1b.pdf)

What I've always wanted to know, and I started doing experiments when I was developing the HCM beads, is "can a brother mix salts and make a custom RH?"
I never finished the experiments, so I never found out.
I'll figure it out one of these days if I'm ever so moved.
It might seem like a really stupid question, but the answer to that question, coupled with some charts and graphs, would be a boon for us cigar hoarders. It'd open up a huge amount of opportunities for do-it-yourself humidity control. :tu

[T.G]

The ratio won't change a bit. It can't. A saturated salt solution (which is what Boveda packs are) can only ever be the RH it is. The reason that's a constant is because of the volume of the Boveda packs. You couldn't get enough water in one of those packets to dilute the salt far enough that it wouldn't continue being saturated. (Saturated chemically speaking.)



Actually, you can, Scott. Although keep in mind that this pack was allowed to absorb water and expand beyond it's design parameters. Hygrometer and battery are new, and was calibrated with the Boveda 75% calibration kit just prior to placing in the bag with the expanded pack a few days ago.

http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=14534&stc=1&d=1396370901

[shilala]

Holee sack, Adam. lol
That's just one of those itty bitty guys. You're absolutely right, I stand corrected. You manged to get enough water in there that the solution is no longer salt-saturated.
The ones I'm messing with are the big 65% ones. I dried them out completely and there's a good amount of salt in there. So much so that if I filled it like a ready-to-pop balloon like yours, it should remain saturated.
Now I'm not sure, though. I think I'll fill them the rest of the way and mess around with it some more.

It does make sense, what you found out. If these things are made with just enough salt to saturate the design amount of water, that creates a stumbling point for recharging them. Get too crazy and it's going to give up copious amounts of vapor till it reaches saturation again and starts to work right.
If we didn't know what was going on, we'd likely try recharging once, assume it doesn't work, and not bother again. Easier to just buy some new ones.

Thanks for hanging with me on this, my brother. Ya know, this is just how we all invented the hcm and hcs beads. A whole bunch of guys back at the old place joined me and we messed with a bunch of media till we got it all dialed in with real-world data.
I still haven't figured out how to improve on hcm beads. I tried tons of salts, denatured alcohols, glycols, combinations of those, saturated polymers, everything I could think of.
It's still easier just to use hcm beads with Boveda packs for an extra water-sink and to keep them dialed in. It's an awesome combo. :tu

[T.G]

Holee sack, Adam. lol
That's just one of those itty bitty guys. You're absolutely right, I stand corrected. You manged to get enough water in there that the solution is no longer salt-saturated.
The ones I'm messing with are the big 65% ones. I dried them out completely and there's a good amount of salt in there. So much so that if I filled it like a ready-to-pop balloon like yours, it should remain saturated.
Now I'm not sure, though. I think I'll fill them the rest of the way and mess around with it some more.

It does make sense, what you found out. If these things are made with just enough salt to saturate the design amount of water, that creates a stumbling point for recharging them. Get too crazy and it's going to give up copious amounts of vapor till it reaches saturation again and starts to work right.
If we didn't know what was going on, we'd likely try recharging once, assume it doesn't work, and not bother again. Easier to just buy some new ones.

Thanks for hanging with me on this, my brother. Ya know, this is just how we all invented the hcm and hcs beads. A whole bunch of guys back at the old place joined me and we messed with a bunch of media till we got it all dialed in with real-world data.
I still haven't figured out how to improve on hcm beads. I tried tons of salts, denatured alcohols, glycols, combinations of those, saturated polymers, everything I could think of.
It's still easier just to use hcm beads with Boveda packs for an extra water-sink and to keep them dialed in. It's an awesome combo. :tu


No problem Scott.

Yeah, these little ones seem to have very tight margins for how much water they can hold. Neither of the two in the attached photo were recharged by dunking, they were both allowed to sit in sealed containers with moistened sponges at the opposite end of the container. The 69% pack is puffed up, but to no where near the amount that the one with the failed label was. The 72% pack has even less water in it than the 69% pack.

I have the failed label pack sitting out on the counter, once it drops back to something resembling original size, I'll test it again.


http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=14548&stc=1&d=1396656626

[T.G]

So, here are some weights on various packs.

75% calibration pack*: 8.1g
failed label 72%**: 29.4g
Pack 1 (72% from previous photo): 10.5g
Pack 2 (69% from previous photo): 16.8g
Pack 3 (69% almost crunchy pack now in bag with hygro): 6.1g
Pack 4 (72% crunchy pack): 3.3g

*: has been in use for 10-12 days now in the supplied bag, 3 hygrometers calibrated
**: has been sitting out for a few days

Weights measured with 500g x 0.1g digital scale.

I'll retest the humidity on the packs when they drop down to around 8g or 9g.

[shilala]

That's good stuff, Adam!!!
I'll be watching for the results. :tu

[T.G]

Pack #1 was down to 8.6g this morning so I tossed it in a bag with a hygometer. Will check readings this evening.

[shilala]

Thanks, brother.
I threw the two I had setting out back in my winador.

[Sadden]

Hmmm , I think we need to examine the weight on a given brand new pack , and then recharge a used one to the same weight , then do a side by side and see where they level out at with calibrated hygros. Im starting to think that recharging them wont keep the setpoint the same.

[T.G]

Hmmm , I think we need to examine the weight on a given brand new pack , and then recharge a used one to the same weight , then do a side by side and see where they level out at with calibrated hygros. Im starting to think that recharging them wont keep the setpoint the same.

It's physically impossible for the salt to pass through the membrane of the pack due to it's larger molecular size, so the set point will absolutely remain the same so long as the water level is within design specifications. It's when the packs are overcharged past specifications and the ratio of water to salt is excessive, the pack will no longer maintain the design setpoint until enough water has been released from the pack to return to the design ratio.

A lot of what you mentioned has already been done and recorded in previous posts. What hasn't been posted yet is the results from testing the previously overcharged pack #1 once it dropped back into range because as with all other readings, 2-3 days are allowed for the environment to stabilize before readings are taken. Pack #1 was placed in the isolated environment on the 8th, which was 2 days ago. Reads will be posted when it's ready and I have time.

[Toombes]

I've recharged smaller packs using the tupperware/distilled water method. Works like a charm.
I'm using 1 lb of beads and 5 large packs in my cooler. I split the beads into 1/2 lb containers and overly saturate one container with the other one lightly spritzed. The packs soak up the excess from the beads and give out moisture when the beads start to dry out. Everything has been an didn't a stable 67% for the last year and I've only had to recharge the beads once.

[T.G]

So, as pretty much exactly as expected, after dropping back into the proper weight range and therefore correct salt ratios, the packs are performing as labeled:

Pack #1 - when overcharged, was pushing 78%, now it's been holding steady for a few weeks at 72% once it dropped back down to 8.6g

Pack #2 - previously overcharged with 16.9g total weight, was hovering at 79%. Now, back down to about 9g, it has been holding at 69%.

BTW Scott, from testing the packs along the way as they lost moisture, max weight seems to be around 9.5g give or take for these smaller packs. Over that and they are going to read high, below that and they are fine.

[Subvet642]

For anyone interested, the B----- website calls them 8 gram for the small and 60 gram for the large.

[T.G]

For anyone interested, the B----- website calls them 8 gram for the small and 60 gram for the large.

Thanks for finding the info, Darren. That makes sense with what I saw; since it's a two-way pack, they are going to sell with the salt solution over saturated so it still has the capability of absorbing some excess humidity while maintaining the setpoint RH. If they sell it at a charged/total weight of 8g, they get crunchy around 3.3g, this means there is about 4.7g of water in there. When over charged, I saw it start hitting the target RH once it dropped to about 9.5g in weight when placed into a dry bag, so that means it has the ability to absorb approximately an additional 30% water, which is reasonable.

[Subvet642]

My pleasure!

If all these values are fixed (RH setpoint of the RO membrane, etc.), can we graph out how long a depleted pack must soak to hit the target weight?:sh

[shilala]

That about wraps up this test. Very nicely, too.
Well done, gentlemen!!! :tu

[Subvet642]

That about wraps up this test. Very nicely, too.
Well done, gentlemen!!! :tu

:D

[T.G]

My pleasure!

If all these values are fixed (RH setpoint of the RO membrane, etc.), can we graph out how long a depleted pack must soak to hit the target weight?:sh

Maybe.

There are some things we don't know about these packs, like what the transfer rate is through the membrane. Also you have a variable for how dried out the pack really is when you start and water temperature might also be a variable.

I suppose I can take a few dried out packs and toss them in water, then periodically pull them out to weigh them. Not exactly the most scientific method, but maybe narrow the times down a little bit.

[meatcake]

I do this all the time too, the only drawback I can tell is they seem to dry up faster after the recharge. Still getting SAME RH for most part though. So I got a 12 pack and just rotate.

[Subvet642]

Maybe.

There are some things we don't know about these packs, like what the transfer rate is through the membrane. Also you have a variable for how dried out the pack really is when you start and water temperature might also be a variable.

I suppose I can take a few dried out packs and toss them in water, then periodically pull them out to weigh them. Not exactly the most scientific method, but maybe narrow the times down a little bit.

It was just a thought. You guys have done some good work and it was fun geeking-out with you. Personally, I use the sealed Tupperware method but that takes time; a quicker way would be helpful but at this point, you've done enough work. Bravo-Zulu!:salute:

[Subvet642]

I do this all the time too, the only drawback I can tell is they seem to dry up faster after the recharge. Still getting SAME RH for most part though. So I got a 12 pack and just rotate.

That would mean that "re-charged" humidity escapes the humi faster than "new" humidity or that a new pack works slower than a re-charged pack.:hm The new ones do feel different from re-charged ones, though.

[meatcake]

That would mean that "re-charged" humidity escapes the humi faster than "new" humidity or that a new pack works slower than a re-charged pack.:hm The new ones do feel different from re-charged ones, though.

Could be that I am impatient and don't wait for them to FULLY recharge? Not sure. I haven't been real technical about how i do it. I put them in a snap lock tupperware with another tupperware inside it with 2 fresh sponges soaked in distilled water. I put the packs around that, lock it up and leave them for a week or until they feel squishy again. They just don't seem to have the same consistency of NEW boveda packs once recharged. Who knows.

[Zane]

Could be that I am impatient and don't wait for them to FULLY recharge? Not sure. I haven't been real technical about how i do it. I put them in a snap lock tupperware with another tupperware inside it with 2 fresh sponges soaked in distilled water. I put the packs around that, lock it up and leave them for a week or until they feel squishy again. They just don't seem to have the same consistency of NEW boveda packs once recharged. Who knows.

I imagine your like me and have no patience so they don't get fully recharged.

[meatcake]

I imagine your like me and have no patience so they don't get fully recharged.

Probably true.

[OLS]

I also put mine in a empty desktop humidor with some overly-charged beads and they fatten up pretty well.
I have never thought that it was worth it for me to soak them, but I KNOW they work that way, too.
And when I charge them, they are invariably flat and hard as a rock. Bringing them back for many years has
not seemed to lessen their efficacy.

[shilala]

You guys can get a gram scale like old Cheech there has, they're but a couple bucks at Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=gram+scale).
The 8 bucks spent on a scale would save a fortune on Boveda packs.

It'd be nice to take the info from this post and turn it into a coherent sticky.
It'd save brothers a lot of money, not to mention how useful the information would be for all the boys and girls we support overseas. I know I sent a small fortune in Boveda packs.
It's not like I'd ever quit buying them, they're ideal for SO many situations. It just makes good sense to squeeze every penny out of them that we can. Then we could buy more Boveda cigars, if they'd just start making some. :D

[badbriar]

Have two 69 Boveda packs that were pretty stiff- almost dry. Had them in a zip lock with wet sponge for two weeks now. Pretty much recharged, but still a little bit crunchy around the edges. Is this normal?
RR

[T.G]

Have two 69 Boveda packs that were pretty stiff- almost dry. Had them in a zip lock with wet sponge for two weeks now. Pretty much recharged, but still a little bit crunchy around the edges. Is this normal?
RR


Can't say if it's normal or not, but I wouldn't worry about it. It's just salt and water inside a sealed bag, so eventually the crystallization at the edges should go into solution.

[Subvet642]

Have two 69 Boveda packs that were pretty stiff- almost dry. Had them in a zip lock with wet sponge for two weeks now. Pretty much recharged, but still a little bit crunchy around the edges. Is this normal?
RR

Can't say if it's normal or not, but I wouldn't worry about it. It's just salt and water inside a sealed bag, so eventually the crystallization at the edges should go into solution.

That's been my experience.

[WaxingMoon]

Here is how I rehydrate my Boveda packs.... works well...

I have a "large" sealed container with a lid and the next size down container without the lid...

http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn88/evsallee/DSCN1685_zpse4f5cc08.jpg (http://s302.photobucket.com/user/evsallee/media/DSCN1685_zpse4f5cc08.jpg.html)


I then put all the packs I want to rehydrate in to the smaller container, which will remain "dry".

http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn88/evsallee/DSCN1686_zps9ca37843.jpg (http://s302.photobucket.com/user/evsallee/media/DSCN1686_zps9ca37843.jpg.html)


I then nest the smaller container in to the larger container which is about 1/2 full of DW.... The Boveda packs will not come in to contact with the DW... as they are "floating" in the smaller container.

http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn88/evsallee/DSCN1687_zpsecf8e282.jpg (http://s302.photobucket.com/user/evsallee/media/DSCN1687_zpsecf8e282.jpg.html)


Then, I put the lid on the larger container and put them aside - and forget about them until I need them again. By that time, they will be ready for reuse.... I usually go a couple of months before having to replace them.... and I do all four of my humidors at the same time.

http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn88/evsallee/DSCN1688_zps468f31cd.jpg (http://s302.photobucket.com/user/evsallee/media/DSCN1688_zps468f31cd.jpg.html)

[MarkinAZ]

Great job and photographs everyone. I like the idea of re-hydrating a pack back to its original weight (small pack 8g app and large pack 60g app). This appears to bring the pack back to its original RH set.

The manufacturers web page indicates the packs when originally purchased, should last between 2-4 months. I would assume if you recharge a pack, that it should last at least 3 months (avg) prior to needing another recharge. This depends on, of course, how many cigars one is keeping humidity on.

Again, good work all:tu

[badbriar]

Know that this is an older thread, but wanted to post an observation. I usually recharge my packs in a Tupperware with a water source, usually a saturated washcloth. Packs are positioned so they do not come in contact with the water source. Usually do 1 or 2 packs over a 2-3 week time. This method works well, but requires patience. Recently found that I let four packs get to near hockey puck state and started the recharging process. After 2 weeks, only two were anywhere near being rehumidified. Being the impatient sort, I decided to experiment with Scott's method and soaked them in water for 36hours. They were nice and juicy! Then I realized there was the issue of getting the outer paper to dry without drying out the entire packs, so they were placed outside overnight to dry in the humid Florida air. By morning, the packs were dry outside, but juicy inside! No discoloration or degradation of the outer wrapper at all - look like new! In all, a great way to do a quick-charge when needed. I would not do this as a matter of course, but only when needed in a short time period. Bovedas Rock! :banger