Any Duck Dynasty Debate Thoughts?

[The Poet]

I don't want to get into any political garbage regarding this story, but since it doesn't seem to want to go away I was wondering what some of you thought of this mess.

Personally, I've never watched it and have zero desire to do so (hey, I grew up in The South, and "know" these guys too well already :D ), and thus truly do not care about the status of this show. Yet one of my initial thoughts was this: Why in the world was GQ interested in an interview with Paul Robertson in the first place? The last time I checked, Ermenegildo Zegna did not make camo bib overalls. ;)

[Remo]

Have never seen the show so I can't comment, only issue I have is how basically no one can have their own opinions anymore, everything is so PC, don't say or do anything that may offend anyone...F that!!

[MrClean]

Have never seen the show so I can't comment, only issue I have is how basically no one can have their own opinions anymore, everything is so PC, don't say or do anything that may offend anyone...F that!!

This!

[The Poet]

Have never seen the show so I can't comment, only issue I have is how basically no one can have their own opinions anymore, everything is so PC, don't say or do anything that may offend anyone...F that!!

Mayor Bloomberg is not the only one who imposed a ban on smoking cigars even outside in NYC in order to enforce his opinion on others. Just sayin'. There are opinions, and then there are opinions. Can we be selective which are acceptable and which are not, and still have some integrity?

Plus, how does Paul's right to an opinion differ from A&E's opinion that they didn't care to have him represent their network any longer? Again, just sayin'.

As for being PC . . . well, to me, "political correctness" is an oxymoron, like "legal ethics". :r

Not taking a stance, only pointing out the other side.

[markem]

I'll believe it's not a publicity stunt when the cast decides not to take network money anymore so that they can say what they want and not give a rat's fart about their EMPLOYER.

[dijit]

Thomas I think for the most part you are right. Freedom of speech does not mean only if it appeases one side or the other. Yes I agree you cannot put yelling fire in a crowded building under the protection of freedom of speech. I have seen a few episodes and find it entertaining but not a must see. However; I place all television under the "not a must see" label. A&E needs to decide if they want to support free speech and say that the view expressed by the show may not accurately reflect the views of the network. This could allow them to keep the money bag this show has become.

[8zeros]

The first amendment only applies to the government vs the People. In the case here it's between Phil and A&E. I can be banned from this forum for speaking my open mind. Someone might get offended. No first amendment here either.

[pnoon]

The first amendment only applies to the government vs the People. In the case here it's between Phil and A&E. I can be banned from this forum for speaking my open mind. Someone might get offended. No first amendment here either.

I have to say, Roger, that your post made me chuckle. We've had some former members of our community who when presented with the request to refrain from religious and/or political posts, replied with "This is a free country. I can say whatever I want".

[AdamJoshua]

The first amendment only applies to the government vs the People. In the case here it's between Phil and A&E. I can be banned from this forum for speaking my open mind. Someone might get offended. No first amendment here either.

This is a private forum, this is not a public area, you are a guest here, there are certain rules that apply just as if you were in someone else's house.


That being said.


As far as A&E, it would seem the network head had him removed after some of her gay and lesbian staff were upset with what he said, so it wasn't about advertisers and marketing it was more personal at that point.

Cracker Barrel was going to remove Duck Commander (?) items from their stores and the petitions started right away NOT to remove the items, so they reversed their plans and kept the items.

I don't agree with what everyone thinks but I respect their right to think it, it appears the gay and lesbian community doesn't respect others rights if they disagree with them.

[markem]

I don't agree with what everyone thinks but I respect their right to think it, it appears the gay and lesbian community doesn't respect others rights if they disagree with them.

I think this is the most blatantly ignorant thing I have ever heard uttered here. But I respect your right to be amazingly ignorant.

[pnoon]

I can be banned from this forum for speaking my open mind. Someone might get offended. No first amendment here either.

This is a private forum, this is not a public area, you are a guest here, there are certain rules that apply just as if you were in someone else's house.


To clarify.

Roger - You or anyone else will not be banned for speaking your mind and possibly offending someone. My point had to do with others blatantly defying our clearly defined rules and staunchly defending their right to post whatever they wish. Personal insults are not permitted here but they occasionally happen and we try to warn before taking permanent action.

Adam's point and analogy about being a "guest" is spot on.

[dijit]

I think the big issue with those subjects here are people are so passionate they become rude and/or worse. The freedom of speech as read is to protect the rights of people's opinions. As interpreted for as long as I can remember it also supports a people's rights to no be forced to hear that particular opinion. Personally I think we should all sit down enjoy a nice smoke and ponder how to fix New York.

[AdamJoshua]

I think this is the most blatantly ignorant thing I have ever heard uttered here. But I respect your right to be amazingly ignorant.

Thank you.

[T.G]

Have never seen the show so I can't comment, only issue I have is how basically no one can have their own opinions anymore, everything is so PC, don't say or do anything that may offend anyone...F that!!

It's not uncommon for these kind of acting contracts to include catch-all sections about not doing anything that discredits or embarrasses the employer/production company/studio etc. Unless you're a serious A-lister, pulling Sheen-esque commentary out of your ass when on record isn't going to fly.

That being said, I still think it's a publicity stunt. If they were so embarrassed by him and wanted to bury this, why did A&E, after they had suspended him, decide to schedule and run a Duck Dynasty marathon of episodes featuring him. That decision wasn't made until after he was suspended. Ratings are through the roof now. It's all about the money.

[AdamJoshua]

I'm going to guess they couldn't be happier with how it played out, it's headline news and people who have never seen the show are now discussing it, you can't buy advertising like that.

In my own moronic opinion if people were more tolerant of each other, on both sides, we would have many of these issues.

[8zeros]

To clarify.

Roger - You or anyone else will not be banned for speaking your mind and possibly offending someone. My point had to do with others blatantly defying our clearly defined rules and staunchly defending their right to post whatever they wish. Personal insults are not permitted here but they occasionally happen and we try to warn before taking permanent action.

Adam's point and analogy about being a "guest" is spot on.
The rules of this forum are less strict than some other forums I go to. You fellas BS a lot and are not smacked down for being "off subject" or "not a forum topic".
I was just throwing out an example, using myself. I'm new here and still getting a feel for the place, I'm not going to start finding how far I can go with anything anyway. I try not to offend people unless they need it.

[RevSmoke]

I do not know much about Duck Dynasty. Watched it a couple times, wasn't really impressed with it.

If I might interject, the issue is tolerance.

Tolerance is: we agree to disagree and part friends, each respecting the others right to have and voice their own opinion - even if I do not like it.

Today, there are all sorts of people who scream about others whom they claim are "intolerant." They to want everybody to tolerate their opinion. But, their idea of tolerance is to shut down anybody who has an opposing opinion about a particular subject and silence them - or force them to cater to them in their belief and opinion.


AS AN EXAMPLE: I have a friend (couple) who are vegetarians. When they come to our place, they demand that we must prepare a special dish just for them. When we go to their house, they do not return the favor - there is no meat dish, anywhere. When I asked him to make a special dish for us when we come over, they refused, "We will not even cook meat in our home." When they came over the next time I had a help yourself meal. You grab a plate and could choose any or all of the following: cheesy potatoes, greens salad, beer cheese soup, broccoli w/cheese sauce, cheese & crackers, nuts, and finally some NY Strip steaks. They complained we didn't make them anything vegetarian. What?

Tolerance is not about forcing the other side to live according to your lifestyle, or even forcing someone to cater to your lifestyle. Tolerance is allowing people to live their way, even if you have an opposing viewpoint - but tolerance also allows both viewpoints full and free expression.

Of course, that's just my view.

[G G]

Well said Todd. I tired to bump you but I couldn't.

[shilala]

Nevermind.

[Lockspur]

Nevermind.

:tpd:

:lv

[Ashcan Bill]

In the final analysis, it's going to come down to money.

It won't matter who's right, who's wrong, who believes what or who said what.

After realizing a large percentage of the population don't give a fig what was said, A&E will welcome the duck guy back. The duck people will ignore the fact their A&E partners, rather than having their back, tried to toss them under the bus. They will have one big group hug, and get on with their joint pursuit of $$$$.

Wish I was wrong, but I'm pretty sure that's what's is coming down the pike.

[Blueface]

Frankly, love the show.
Very entertaining.
In the end, why can't it be that if you don't like it, you don't agree with them, you don't like A&E, then just don't watch it.
Quite simple really.

[Steve]

I like corn dogs...

http://blog.zap2it.com/frominsidethebox/duck-dynasty-hot-tub-grime-machine-ae.jpg

[Catfish]

AS AN EXAMPLE: I have a friend (couple) who are vegetarians. When they come to our place, they demand that we must prepare a special dish just for them. When we go to their house, they do not return the favor - there is no meat dish, anywhere. When I asked him to make a special dish for us when we come over, they refused, "We will not even cook meat in our home." When they came over the next time I had a help yourself meal. You grab a plate and could choose any or all of the following: cheesy potatoes, greens salad, beer cheese soup, broccoli w/cheese sauce, cheese & crackers, nuts, and finally some NY Strip steaks. They complained we didn't make them anything vegetarian. What?

If I were faced with a similar situation, I do believe I'd tell that couple to take a flying F at a rolling donut.

[shilala]

The duck people will ignore the fact their A&E partners, rather than having their back, tried to toss them under the bus. They will have one big group hug, and get on with their joint pursuit of $$$$.

I'm mostly with you, Bill. But I think Phil and his family really don't have much desire and/or need for A&E, aside from having some fun, and the notoriety of it all.
Phil blew off a professional football career to pursue his duck hunting/call making dream, and I don't think he'd miss A&E for a minute. I don't think he's all that driven by the mighty dollar as we'd think.
That's just my thought on it.

[TNT009]

Didn't care for his Blacks and Civil Rights comment.. His right I guess and mine not to watch the show!

[Steve]

I'm mostly with you, Bill. But I think Phil and his family really don't have much desire and/or need for A&E, aside from having some fun, and the notoriety of it all.
Phil blew off a professional football career to pursue his duck hunting/call making dream, and I don't think he'd miss A&E for a minute. I don't think he's all that driven by the mighty dollar as we'd think.
That's just my thought on it.

This

[Veatorious]

I'm mostly with you, Bill. But I think Phil and his family really don't have much desire and/or need for A&E, aside from having some fun, and the notoriety of it all.
Phil blew off a professional football career to pursue his duck hunting/call making dream, and I don't think he'd miss A&E for a minute. I don't think he's all that driven by the mighty dollar as we'd think.
That's just my thought on it.

Word. :tu

[The Poet]

Didn't care for his Blacks and Civil Rights comment.. His right I guess and mine not to watch the show!

Yeah, I'm surprised nobody on here seemed to notice that part of the interview controversy, and only the same-sex stuff. When I read that he said he worked beside blacks in his younger days ('50s and '60s) and never once heard one of them say "Doggone the white folks" or whatever, I didn't know if I should laugh or scream in anger. Do I believe he never heard that from a black man in segregated Louisiana? Damn straight I believe it. And HAD he heard something like that, he wouldn't have heard it again, since the "offender" would have been beaten, shot, or lynched within hours . . . if not by Paul or his family, by the fellow "white trash" (his words, not mine) down the road.

Does one have a First Amendment right to say what one wants? Well, what if what he's saying is "Let's lynch that farkin' . . . . ", well, you know the word that comes next.

[RWhisenand]

Count me as one who sees this as a publicity stunt. Already merchandise and re-runs have spiked, when the guy who said those things comes back, there will be another spike. Sorry but I think the whole thing was scripted.

[Ashcan Bill]

I'm mostly with you, Bill. But I think Phil and his family really don't have much desire and/or need for A&E, aside from having some fun, and the notoriety of it all.
Phil blew off a professional football career to pursue his duck hunting/call making dream, and I don't think he'd miss A&E for a minute. I don't think he's all that driven by the mighty dollar as we'd think.
That's just my thought on it.

I've never seen the show so I'm just going by what I've seen in the media the last few days. My knowledge of the duck guys is pretty limited. Not that that's ever stopped me from shooting my mouth off. ;)

I agree completely that Phil seems to be a guy who believes in what he believes and will not compromise those beliefs. That's just my read on him. If he were in this by himself, I have little doubt A&E would be holding an empty bag right now.

However, there are a lot of other family members involved. I don't know who has what, but I suspect some of them don't have his financial resources. They also have younger generations to think of. This is a long term business for the family, and these are not dumb people. Maybe I'm being cynical, but I think in the end money will talk.

I'm still looking for the group hug down the road.

[larryinlc]

In the final analysis, it's going to come down to money.

I think this is exactly right. In order to make the most money, these corporations need to appeal to most of the people most of the time. Whether some were offended or others defensive, it doesn't make good business sense to take sides. Remember Hank Williams Jr or Jimmy the Greek? Yes, they spoke their minds but it cost them their jobs.

The problem today due to instant news traveling throughout the internet in warp speed, opinions are formed and sides are taken in a nanosecond. Corporate America has their collective undies tied in knots over instant reprisal, and this scares the hell out of them.

I totally believe in free speech, but sometimes it's better to keeps ones opinions private for the benefit of all. Everyone makes money then and everyone is happy.

[The Poet]

I totally believe in free speech, but sometimes it's better to keeps ones opinions private for the benefit of all. Everyone makes money then and everyone is happy.

Yeah, what's the old line? It's better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.

Hey, I been there. You? :r

[MarkinAZ]

Well said Todd. I tired to bump you but I couldn't.

I bumped him for you Greg:tu

BTW, I love the show and its definitely a kick:tu Now, where did I place those bullfrog legs anyways...:D

[the jiggler]

Read an article this morning about the whole thing that had this quote from Rick Warren which I thought was pretty good:

Our culture has accepted two huge lies. The first is that if you disagree with someone’s lifestyle, you must fear them or hate them. The second is that to love someone means you agree with everything they believe or do. Both are nonsense. You don’t have to compromise convictions to be compassionate.

[dijit]

I'm mostly with you, Bill. But I think Phil and his family really don't have much desire and/or need for A&E, aside from having some fun, and the notoriety of it all.
Phil blew off a professional football career to pursue his duck hunting/call making dream, and I don't think he'd miss A&E for a minute. I don't think he's all that driven by the mighty dollar as we'd think.
That's just my thought on it.

Scott I think you are dead on with the thought that Phil isnt driven by the mighty dollar. They have dinner as the close to the show, at least the episodes I have seen. That dinner is at Phil's house. Which is not some lavish mansion. It looks to be relatively small and slightly reminiscent of a double wide mobile home.

[The Poet]

Read an article this morning about the whole thing that had this quote from Rick Warren which I thought was pretty good:

And does it surprise you that a bible-thumper supports thumping bibles? :r

There is a simple truth his statement skirts. Just because you say you do not hate someone does not mean you do not.

[dijit]

And does it surprise you that a bible-thumper supports thumping bibles? :r

There is a simple truth his statement skirts. Just because you say you do not hate someone does not mean you do not.

That's like saying just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you.

[kelmac07]

bishes

[G G]

Yeah, I'm surprised nobody on here seemed to notice that part of the interview controversy, and only the same-sex stuff. When I read that he said he worked beside blacks in his younger days ('50s and '60s) and never once heard one of them say "Doggone the white folks" or whatever, I didn't know if I should laugh or scream in anger. Do I believe he never heard that from a black man in segregated Louisiana? Damn straight I believe it. And HAD he heard something like that, he wouldn't have heard it again, since the "offender" would have been beaten, shot, or lynched within hours . . . if not by Paul or his family, by the fellow "white trash" (his words, not mine) down the road.

Does one have a First Amendment right to say what one wants? Well, what if what he's saying is "Let's lynch that farkin' . . . . ", well, you know the word that comes next.
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and comment. I have lived in the south the whole of my life. I'm not stupid enough to think that racism in the south didn't exist okay and don't still exist. But...... I read the comments and he said with his own eyes. I have traveled to the northeast quite a bit to visit family and I have heard the N word far more times there than I have in the south in my adult years. The stereo types are a bunch of rednecks that hate and lynch and all sorts of other things toward people that aren't white, but it simply isn't what I see with my own eyes as a southern man. everyone has a right to their opinion, but I see, and have seen much more racism in the north than I ever did in the south. I was actually shocked believe it or not, because whether we like it or not stereotypes affect us. I aint buying it. The man said the they were Godly and happy and I am gonna take him at his word that that's what he saw where he lived. We can make all the assumptions we want to, but at the end of the day we weren't there with him.

[G G]

I'm mostly with you, Bill. But I think Phil and his family really don't have much desire and/or need for A&E, aside from having some fun, and the notoriety of it all.
Phil blew off a professional football career to pursue his duck hunting/call making dream, and I don't think he'd miss A&E for a minute. I don't think he's all that driven by the mighty dollar as we'd think.
That's just my thought on it.
I agree Scott, contrary to what most believe these day there are people that have personal honor and ethics, morals and integrity.
I bumped him for you Greg:tu

BTW, I love the show and its definitely a kick:tu Now, where did I place those bullfrog legs anyways...:D
Thanks bro.
That's like saying just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you.
Bingo.

[dijit]

Greg, my experiences have been very similar. I lived in a very small town in TN for many years. Grew up in the most racist neighborhood I have ever experience anywhere. Cross burnings in yards in the early 80's. A families home burned down in the late 70's because they were the wrong race. I grew up in Indianapolis, IN, Ravenswood was the suburb name. I lived in Tullahoma TN. The racist experiences in Ravenswood far exceeded those in Tullahoma, Winchester, Deckerd, and Belvidere TN combined. It is naive at best to think racism doesnt exist anywhere in this country but I have experienced far worse in the north than the south.

[G G]

Greg, my experiences have been very similar. I lived in a very small town in TN for many years. Grew up in the most racist neighborhood I have ever experience anywhere. Cross burnings in yards in the early 80's. A families home burned down in the late 70's because they were the wrong race. I grew up in Indianapolis, IN, Ravenswood was the suburb name. I lived in Tullahoma TN. The racist experiences in Ravenswood far exceeded those in Tullahoma, Winchester, Deckerd, and Belvidere TN combined. It is naive at best to think racism doesnt exist anywhere in this country but I have experienced far worse in the north than the south.
Theres a lot more that I would like to say my friend, but in the spirit of the rules I will be careful to tread lightly. And the fact that most all brothers I have met here, no matter where they are from seem to be more conservative and tolerant even if we don't agree with whatever someone says or believes. I'm not trying to turn this into an argument against anyone, just stating what I have witnessed with my own eyes, much like Phil Robertson said.

[mosesbotbol]

I've seen the show a couple of times. If you want the show to be honest and real, people are going to have real opinions that may not sit well with PC "there's only one world view" crowd.

The anti-Christian propagandists have been rampant for a while and it's refreshing to see them put down for once. The inclusive societal view is only inclusive to their vision. There is no tolerance in their eyes.

Funny how politicians are keeping quiet (mostly) with elections around the corner and no one wants to put words to paper that could bite them either way.

[G G]

I've seen the show a couple of times. If you want the show to be honest and real, people are going to have real opinions that may not sit well with PC "there's only one world view" crowd.

The anti-Christian propagandists have been rampant for a while and it's refreshing to see them put down for once. The inclusive societal view is only inclusive to their vision. There is no tolerance in their eyes.

Funny how politicians are keeping quiet (mostly) with elections around the corner and no one wants to put words to paper that could bite them either way.
Yessir, I agree.

[the jiggler]

And does it surprise you that a bible-thumper supports thumping bibles? :r

There is a simple truth his statement skirts. Just because you say you do not hate someone does not mean you do not.

Rick Warren is not a Bible thumper. But I appreciate the ad hominem to get things rolling. :D

Not really a simple truth... more a suspicion framed as a platitude. Warren's point was that you don't have to sacrifice what you believe to love (really love) someone who disagrees (really disagrees) with your religious beliefs. This is not another way of saying love the sinner hate the sin. It applies to all parties, not just the Bible thumper.

And FWIW, I know orthodox Christians who say they do not hate and live lives that seem to show that they really don't. Course they could all be kicking puppies when I'm not around.

[The Poet]

I was born and raised in NC, lived in TN for 3 years after college, and have lived in NJ over 30 years. I cannot disagree with Greg and Michael about the existence of racism in the North, as it has at times shocked me too. But that's not the point. On the one hand, I am rational enough (or cynical enough, if you prefer) to believe that EVERYONE is racist, regardless of their race. It is primal, even evolutionary, and part of our DNA. The trick is not to let racism affect the way you treat people, for that is not racism but rather bigotry. There is a difference. Paul Robertson may never have allowed his "primal" racism to affect the way he treated individual blacks he has doubtless encountered throughout his life, I'll grant you that. But that does not mean his neighbor hasn't, so his statement that he never heard a black man he was hoeing cotton beside in his youth say "Doggone white folks" is, at best, naive, and at worst downright stupid and deceitful.

Defending a foolish racist comment by saying racism exists outside of Louisiana is, to me, a meaningless defense. It is true, but so what? It does not excuse it, wherever it is.

[MUNKY]

I'm mostly with you, Bill. But I think Phil and his family really don't have much desire and/or need for A&E, aside from having some fun, and the notoriety of it all.
Phil blew off a professional football career to pursue his duck hunting/call making dream, and I don't think he'd miss A&E for a minute. I don't think he's all that driven by the mighty dollar as we'd think.
That's just my thought on it.

Agreed, I personaly love the show and also love their duck hunting vids. Phil has taken duck hunting to a whole nether level. Quack Quack Jack

Ps: uncle Si is hilarious!

[G G]

I was born and raised in NC, lived in TN for 3 years after college, and have lived in NJ over 30 years. I cannot disagree with Greg and Michael about the existence of racism in the North, as it has at times shocked me too. But that's not the point. On the one hand, I am rational enough (or cynical enough, if you prefer) to believe that EVERYONE is racist, regardless of their race. It is primal, even evolutionary, and part of our DNA. The trick is not to let racism affect the way you treat people, for that is not racism but rather bigotry. There is a difference. Paul Robertson may never have allowed his "primal" racism to affect the way he treated individual blacks he has doubtless encountered throughout his life, I'll grant you that. But that does not mean his neighbor hasn't, so his statement that he never heard a black man he was hoeing cotton beside in his youth say "Doggone white folks" is, at best, naive, and at worst downright stupid and deceitful.
Defending a foolish racist comment by saying racism exists outside of Louisiana is, to me, a meaningless defense. It is true, but so what? It does not excuse it, wherever it is.

I take from this that you think just because someone that is white somewhere at some time was racist, then any statement I ever make about the subject HAS to be in relation to everything any white person ever said or did in the history of the nation or I am naïve, downright stupid and deceitful. I don't get your logic here but to each his own. I don't agree with your contention either that everyone is a bigot, but hey you can choose to look at it that way if you want to. I didn't try to excuse racism by saying it exists outside of LA, simply was pointing out that I am sick and tired of the old southern cliché (you had nothing to do with that) that all southerners are a bunch of rednecks that are always looking for a reason to lynch someone.

[G G]

And let me further say that I am not conceding that anything he said was racist, the man simply states what he saw with his own eyes in his part of the world. Personally I think to make this racist is disingenuous at best for all the news media and race baiters.

[dijit]

I take from this that you think just because someone that is white somewhere at some time was racist, then any statement I ever make about the subject HAS to be in relation to everything any white person ever said or did in the history of the nation or I am naïve, downright stupid and deceitful. I don't get your logic here but to each his own. I don't agree with your contention either that everyone is a bigot, but hey you can choose to look at it that way if you want to. I didn't try to excuse racism by saying it exists outside of LA, simply was pointing out that I am sick and tired of the old southern cliché (you had nothing to do with that) that all southerners are a bunch of rednecks that are always looking for a reason to lynch someone.

Greg, he said everyone is racist he implied that is not necessarily a bad thing. Its like everyone sees color. Bigotry is where I read the difference between peoples perception of racism and the act of bigotry. I dont know that I would say that anyone or everyone that has grown up in the south if they say they never heard either side speak negatively of the other are naive stupid or deceitful. There are a few of us out here that have tried all our lives to live and reflect an honorable life. Maybe Phil was just lucky enough to be surrounded by a whole herd of just such people.

[pnoon]

Let's tread carefully, Gentlemen.

[icehog3]

These kind of threads go well for a while, like this one has, but in my experience they go South, almost always. If it look like it's going to turn that way, don't be shocked if the ToE shuts 'er down.

[G G]

Greg, he said everyone is racist he implied that is not necessarily a bad thing. Its like everyone sees color. Bigotry is where I read the difference between peoples perception of racism and the act of bigotry. I dont know that I would say that anyone or everyone that has grown up in the south if they say they never heard either side speak negatively of the other are naive stupid or deceitful. There are a few of us out here that have tried all our lives to live and reflect an honorable life. Maybe Phil was just lucky enough to be surrounded by a whole herd of just such people.
I will repeat what I said in the first post. I'm not saying or ever thought that lots, and lots of people aren't racist everywhere. I certainly know people who are. But not everyone is. To somehow say what he said was bigoted or racist is a stretch in my opinion because frankly I don't see it. and I know that there are those that will say I am a bigot just because I say that, and if so then fine, but just because they say it don't make it so.

[dijit]

I still think we should all get together have a smoke and figure out how to fix New York. Or maybe San Diego. :r

[G G]

I will say again on my exit from this thread. Not trying to belittle or denigrate Thomas or anyone else. I am simply stating what I think and welcome anyone else to do the same. I believe that our inability to have a dialogue without calling names and discussing (which is what I am trying to do) is what is wrong with our once Great Nation and why it's in the shape it's in.

Peace out and Merry Christmas Brothers.

[Porch Dweller]

Well said Todd. I tired to bump you but I couldn't.

I took care of it. :D

Very well said.

[The Poet]

Rick Warren is not a Bible thumper. But I appreciate the ad hominem to get things rolling. :D


Craig, Rick Warren is an evangelical Baptist pastor of a megachurch whose net worth is estimated in excess of $10 million, and whose "official" annual salary is $900,000, yet believed to be more than $2 million. This is not exactly the type of Christian guidance I'd choose myself, but others are free to do so . . . though it does not seem Warren himself would welcome that "free" part. :D

You live in Charlotte, home to perhaps the most famous and most respected "bible thumper" of all, Billy Graham. His ministry also amassed a vast fortune over his 60 years of preaching, and he was during that time about as fundamentalist a Christian as anyone. Yet, lest my memory fails me, he assiduously tried to avoid embroiling himself in conflicts such as this one, keeping his peace like I was taught a good Christian should. That was my only point.

I dismiss the comment of Rick Warren out of hand because I dismiss its relevance, not its sincerity. By the same token, I dismiss the comments of Charlie Sheen, who has jumped onto Paul Robertson with both feet. Charlie Sheen is . . . well, I don't know exactly WHAT Charlie Sheen is. Hell, I'm not certain HE knows what or who he is from moment to moment. But his hateful vitriol is, to me anyway, as meaningless as the insipid pablum I view Rick Warren's statement to be. Neither seem relevant to the core issue, namely, should Paul Robertson face consequences which stem from statements he made which others found offensive.

Two other quick points. Warren may be right in stating that Paul's remarks to GQ did not express hatred. However, there is a sermon Paul Robertson made in 2010 that is being cited where he quite clearly expressed what I believe are his true feelings about homosexuality, decrying it as a vile sin for which its practitioners shall be condemned to hell, to burn for all eternity. That seems pretty unambiguous to me. Secondly, you can think what you want about Charlie Sheen (as long as you don't defend Paul Robertson's First Amendment right to speak his mind while telling Charlie to STFU :D ), but at the very least he knows a little something about facing the consequences of his own words and actions. True, it took him a while to accept it with a modicum of grace, and even to apologize for his deeds (sincerely or not, who can say), but at least he moved on . . . not to a place I'd want to be, but it's his life. I can only hope that, upon reflection and with the passage of time, the Robertson clan can, individually and/or collectively, can reach a similar insight, if not a true epiphany.

[The Poet]

Let's tread carefully, Gentlemen.

;s I'm trying, brother, and expressed my misgivings when I started this thread.

And to be clear, as Michael noted, when I said I believe everyone is racist, I did not say that every white American is racist, regardless of geography. I said EVERYONE, meaning just that, regardless of race, region, nationality, or religion. That troop of hominids across the stream competes with mine for food and for water, and has abducted our females in the past. They are not like us, and are our enemy, and they must be kept in their place . . . or eliminated.

How much more primal can you get?

[blugill]

i do not know much about duck dynasty. Watched it a couple times, wasn't really impressed with it.

If i might interject, the issue is tolerance.

Tolerance is: We agree to disagree and part friends, each respecting the others right to have and voice their own opinion - even if i do not like it.

Today, there are all sorts of people who scream about others whom they claim are "intolerant." they to want everybody to tolerate their opinion. But, their idea of tolerance is to shut down anybody who has an opposing opinion about a particular subject and silence them - or force them to cater to them in their belief and opinion.


As an example: I have a friend (couple) who are vegetarians. When they come to our place, they demand that we must prepare a special dish just for them. When we go to their house, they do not return the favor - there is no meat dish, anywhere. When i asked him to make a special dish for us when we come over, they refused, "we will not even cook meat in our home." when they came over the next time i had a help yourself meal. You grab a plate and could choose any or all of the following: Cheesy potatoes, greens salad, beer cheese soup, broccoli w/cheese sauce, cheese & crackers, nuts, and finally some ny strip steaks. They complained we didn't make them anything vegetarian. What?

Tolerance is not about forcing the other side to live according to your lifestyle, or even forcing someone to cater to your lifestyle. Tolerance is allowing people to live their way, even if you have an opposing viewpoint - but tolerance also allows both viewpoints full and free expression.

Of course, that's just my view.

^^^this^^^

[G G]

I will say again on my exit from this thread. Not trying to belittle or denigrate Thomas or anyone else. I am simply stating what I think and welcome anyone else to do the same. I believe that our inability to have a dialogue without calling names and discussing (which is what I am trying to do) is what is wrong with our once Great Nation and why it's in the shape it's in.

Peace out and Merry Christmas Brothers.
Said peace out, but I tried to edit this and it wouldn't let me.

Edit: Don't want anyone to think I am accusing anyone of not being able to discuss this in an intelligent manner, I am simply bowing out before the TOEs warnings of it going south happens.

[markem]

Said peace out, but I tried to edit this and it wouldn't let me.

Edit: Don't want anyone to think I am accusing anyone of not being able to discuss this in an intelligent manner, I am simply bowing out before the TOEs warnings of it going south happens.

Just a note, Greg, but I didn't see what you wrote as disrespcting anyone here or the discussion in general.

The topic at hand is one that really does involve a lot of emotion, deep thought by many people, and arguments that really do not lend themselves to just the written word. We will all read and interpret what is written here through the lens of personal experience and belief, which is sometimes forgotten but must be respected.

I do believe that as long as the discussion is more on the topic of motivations of the DD star and/or A&E that it really isn't violating the strictures of the board and thus likely to be allowed to run its course.

To me, it is sad that we are having this discussion at all given the extraordinary accepting nature that is the cigar community. I think that the vast majority of the people on CA really don't care and just want to connect with people who share their passion for cigars.

I wish everyone the merriest of Kwanzaa, the best of Chanukah, a joyous Solstice Season, a merry Christmas, the best of the season and an even more loving and joyous new year.

[The Poet]

Just a note, Greg, but I didn't see what you wrote as disrespcting anyone here or the discussion in general.

The topic at hand is one that really does involve a lot of emotion, deep thought by many people, and arguments that really do not lend themselves to just the written word. We will all read and interpret what is written here through the lens of personal experience and belief, which is sometimes forgotten but must be respected.

I do believe that as long as the discussion is more on the topic of motivations of the DD star and/or A&E that it really isn't violating the strictures of the board and thus likely to be allowed to run its course.

To me, it is sad that we are having this discussion at all given the extraordinary accepting nature that is the cigar community. I think that the vast majority of the people on CA really don't care and just want to connect with people who share their passion for cigars.

I wish everyone the merriest of Kwanzaa, the best of Chanukah, a joyous Solstice Season, a merry Christmas, the best of the season and an even more loving and joyous new year.

:tu :cl

In short, I myself did not like what was said in the GQ article, but I fully support the man's right to say what he wants. However, one must be willing to face the potential consequences of what one says or does, and the Robertsons seem to wish to avoid any fallout from this. They have the right to say whatever is on their minds. A&E has a right to react to what was said in any way they deem fit. GLADD and the NAACP . . . and Rick Warren and Charlie Sheen . . . have a right to voice approval or disapproval, as does every member of this forum. But NOBODY has the right, when consequences occur, to moan and cry and complain "But why? What did I do to deserve this? It's not fair!"

Yes, it is fair. And even if it's not fair, nobody ever said that life was supposed to be fair.

[RevSmoke]

;s I'm trying, brother, and expressed my misgivings when I started this thread.

And to be clear, as Michael noted, when I said I believe everyone is racist, I did not say that every white American is racist, regardless of geography. I said EVERYONE, meaning just that, regardless of race, region, nationality, or religion. That troop of hominids across the stream competes with mine for food and for water, and has abducted our females in the past. They are not like us, and are our enemy, and they must be kept in their place . . . or eliminated.

How much more primal can you get?

Really, you believe this? Wow! I am so sorry that life has treated you so poorly that you believe all people are this way.

It is human nature to desire to be part of a community.

It has also been proven in studies that hatred/animosity/bigotry/racism (whatever you want to call it) is a learned behavior. I personally believe there is only one [1] race, the human race, and there are just simply slight genetic differences which appear outwardly to be great differences [melatonin causes change in skin color for instance]. Studies have been done by placing children who had never had interaction with others whose skin color was different, into a room together - and those children never batted an eye and simply played together.

My own sons had their early years without exposure to those whose melatonin amounts caused differences in appearance. And when we were at a hotel pool one day with a mixed bag of children, they immediately found the children to join in play who were their size and age - and the skin color affected them not at all. When asked later who they were playing with in the pool, we were given names, nothing about their physical attributes was even mentioned.

Do I know people who would be labeled bigot? You betcha! I think that if we stopped thinking of these slight genetic differences (skin color, etc...) as being different races, some of the problems that do still exist would decrease. Of course the thought that these genetic differences are different races is something that we can larger blame on early evolutionists (Darwin being one who thought & taught such).

Peace of the Lord be with you.

[shilala]

Has nobody realized that these people kill ducks!!!1!!111one
THE AGONY!!!
:D

[RevSmoke]

Has nobody realized that these people kill ducks!!!1!!111one
THE AGONY!!!
:D

Hey, someone has to kill them so that I can eat them. :D

[The Poet]

Reverend, you are absolutely right that the innocence of children does not display the same social and cultural failures so common in the supposedly mature. And you and I agree that there is but one race, which we are all a part. (The same could be said for the, perhaps, not so innocent sex play amongst children, which can be as "egalitarian" as the worst of adult degenerates.) It tempts one to wish youthful innocence could survive childhood, and the flawed lessons taught the young by their presumed "wiser" elders. Sadly, this is not the case, and as you have doubtless ministered to many sinners you know this. Parents teach their children, good and bad.

My point, as well or poorly as was my attempt to make it, was that a distinction need be made between racism and bigotry. The former exists, yet does not necessarily lead to bad actions. The latter too often does. Robertson's remarks about happy black field hands singing while toiling in high cotton, never expressing the slightest vexation towards Mr. Charlie . . . well, I don't care if he was working right beside them, and was only reporting what he witnessed. It is naive, it is offensive, and is at least on the "bad' end of racism, if not full-blown bigotry. And again, I repeat why this debate exists, not who is right or wrong. It is a debate because A&E decided it did not want to continue a relationship with this man. They may be right, they may be wrong, but why can they not do what they want? True, the Robertsons and their fans have the right to voice their disapproval of the decision, but they have no more right than does A&E, does GLADD, does the NAACP, or does little ol' tongue-tied me.

And the happiest of Christmas season to you, Rev, and to your family, your friends, and your flock.

[shilala]

Our culture has accepted two huge lies. The first is that if you disagree with someone’s lifestyle, you must fear them or hate them. The second is that to love someone means you agree with everything they believe or do. Both are nonsense. You don’t have to compromise convictions to be compassionate.
I'm happy Craig posted this. I posted the same observation in my words earlier, but in order to add some teeth to my argument, I gave up some info that shouldn't be on the board, and deleted it.
I think Rick overreaches a bit, but is 100% accurate. Maybe not "our culture", but a good portion of the world at large, I suppose. Heck, I don't know.

Nobody ever has to compromise convictions to be compassionate.
"Love thy neighbor as I have loved you." Unconditional love. Solved.

[shilala]

Hey, someone has to kill them so that I can eat them. :D
Todd, can you imagine how much they could make if they made Canada Goose calls? Know how you can tell they aren't fit to eat? Cause there's hundreds of them within walking distance of my house. :)

[ChicagoWhiteSox]

Is there a way for freedom and liberty to win this so called "debate"? There always is, but sadly it seems to me no one cares to start with that question on any major issue:r

[pnoon]

Just a note, Greg, but I didn't see what you wrote as disrespcting anyone here or the discussion in general.

The topic at hand is one that really does involve a lot of emotion, deep thought by many people, and arguments that really do not lend themselves to just the written word. We will all read and interpret what is written here through the lens of personal experience and belief, which is sometimes forgotten but must be respected.

I do believe that as long as the discussion is more on the topic of motivations of the DD star and/or A&E that it really isn't violating the strictures of the board and thus likely to be allowed to run its course.

To me, it is sad that we are having this discussion at all given the extraordinary accepting nature that is the cigar community. I think that the vast majority of the people on CA really don't care and just want to connect with people who share their passion for cigars.

I wish everyone the merriest of Kwanzaa, the best of Chanukah, a joyous Solstice Season, a merry Christmas, the best of the season and an even more loving and joyous new year.
Well stated, Mark.

With all due respect to those interested in civil debate, this thread has been on the edge since post # 1. In the best interests of everyone, I am closing the thread and encourage everyone to enjoy the holiday and count your many blessings.