Dogs and Cancer

[E.J.]

Boxer with a Mast Cell Tumor. Anyone have experience?

Sounds like 1K for removal, which I am willing to pay.... But you hear the C word with an animal that is already half way through his life, you start to wonder if you are fighting an uphill battle....that you're not going to buy your way out of.

I hope that doesn't come off as crass or harsh.... I just fear 1K turns into 2K, which turns into 3K......:confused:

The vet seems to think this isn't uncommon and that prognosis is good, though that is a guesstimate..... Anyway, thought I'd ask the interweb....

Thanks....

E.J.

[poker]

I can only speak for myself, but when my yellow lab was still a part of our family (rip), vet costs were not a factor since she was, in our eyes, an actual member of our family.
Medical costs for pets can be huge which is why Im glad we had insurance for her (VPI). It helped quite a bit, especially when she got older.

[Blueface]

Been there.
Nearly three years ago, mine got the same thing.
Had him operated for nearly $2k and spent a crap load after that on follow up care.
Had him split half open from back to belly to remove the cancer.
Lab results came back that he had the worst level and it was likely to return.
In six months, it started to return.
Less than a year after surgery, had to put him down.
Only thing I never went for was the chemo. I made life as comfortable as possible but didn't do that to him.
In the end, no doubt I would do the same again.
Tough call.
Good luck.

[longknocker]

Best Of Luck, Brother. I Love My Animals More Than Humans, But I Felt Like Cancer In My Dogs & Cats Was A Death Sentence, So I Put Them Down. Just My :2 Unfortunately, You Need To Make That Decision Yourself. My Thoughts & Prayers Are With You, My Friend!:tu

[Blueface]

Best Of Luck, Brother. I Love My Animals More Than Humans, But I Felt Like Cancer In My Dogs & Cats Was A Death Sentence, So I Put Them Down.

Greg, so true.

[tsolomon]

Yes, went through this twice with one of my French Bulldogs, but based on my experience I would say to do the surgery and then skip the chemo and radiation. You have one of the breeds where mast cell tumors are more common, but there is more to the story than that. With surgery, what you hope for is clean margins when they remove the tumor, but they are fast growing and spider web out quickly.

After the second tumor when we did the second mast cell surgery, they were really pushing us to do the chemo and maybe radiation because they didn't get clean margins and the lab reports graded it as a 2-3. The dog was eight, so we questioned whether we should even think about and the cost which was over $4000. We went to second a onocologist at another clinic and were told several things that the previous onocologist never mentioned. That the singlecoated and pushed nosed breeds get about 50% of the tumors, but they usually aren't as agressive in these breeds. She advised us to send the tissue that was removed to another lab that had worked to establish the grading scale for these tumors to do a slice dissection and they could better determine if the tumor was agressive and needed more treatment. As it turned out, the results indicated that additional treatment wasn't needed.

The problem with surgery is that they have to take out a large piece of the dog to get clean margins and the tumor can be in a place where that is difficult to do. If they don't get clean margins, or they find the tumor to be a stage 2 or 3, that is when they suggest additional treatment with chemo and radiation.

[hotreds]

So sorry to hear. Hardest decision we ever had to make was to put down our dog. Vet came to the house, I was petting her and telling her how good a dog she was as she passed. Makes me cry to type this! We also spent some major bucks on an operation, but in the end this only prolonged her life a short while. She was 13, young for a Corgi.

I know it's a tough, tough, call. IF you can afford it, do the surgery. It may work out wonderfully- if it doesn't- well- you can say you did all you could for him. But, no, I would certainly NOT subject the dog to repeated operations.

May God guide you in your difficult decision!

[Subvet642]

Almost three years ago I lost my cat, Deli, to Renal Lymphoma and it almost killed me. As for me, I'd sell off my body parts if it could have helped her. Since then we bought health insurance for the other two; they're covered up to $20,000 per year, each. If there is a good prognosis, I'd go for it. Our neighbors downstairs have a cat that had cancer in her ear. They removed the tumor and figured she had about three months. Well, that was two years ago and there is now no sign of cancer at all. I'll keep you guys in my prayers.

[14holestogie]

I have never experienced any pet that needed surgery, but this is a heart-wrenching decision to make, to say the least.

I have always surrounded myself with dogs up until about 15 years ago when our Shi Tzu passed. It was just so painful for myself and the better half that I haven't had the nerve to own another.

I still love animals, it's just I don't want to be subjected to that pain again.

It comes down to a personal decision on your part, and only you know what that threshold is. :2

[riverdawg]

Yes, went through this twice with one of my French Bulldogs, but based on my experience I would say to do the surgery and then skip the chemo and radiation. You have one of the breeds where mast cell tumors are more common, but there is more to the story than that. With surgery, what you hope for is clean margins when they remove the tumor, but they are fast growing and spider web out quickly.

After the second tumor when we did the second mast cell surgery, they were really pushing us to do the chemo and maybe radiation because they didn't get clean margins and the lab reports graded it as a 2-3. The dog was eight, so we questioned whether we should even think about and the cost which was over $4000. We went to second a onocologist at another clinic and were told several things that the previous onocologist never mentioned. That the singlecoated and pushed nosed breeds get about 50% of the tumors, but they usually aren't as agressive in these breeds. She advised us to send the tissue that was removed to another lab that had worked to establish the grading scale for these tumors to do a slice dissection and they could better determine if the tumor was agressive and needed more treatment. As it turned out, the results indicated that additional treatment wasn't needed.

The problem with surgery is that they have to take out a large piece of the dog to get clean margins and the tumor can be in a place where that is difficult to do. If they don't get clean margins, or they find the tumor to be a stage 2 or 3, that is when they suggest additional treatment with chemo and radiation.

This covers all the corners pretty daggone well.:tu

[shilala]

I'd have the surgery done, and quickly. Mainly because of his age and odds of success.
I'd have to absolutely trust my vet as much as I do my family doctor.

I think much like Greg, in that I'd consider it a death sentence, first. I'd have to assess the situation based on information. I wouldn't think of the cancer any differently than if he was run over by a car, or in some other sort of accident. I'm very pragmatic, and don't think at all about what might happen a year down the line because I'm a firm believer that I just have today, and that plays in all my decision making. I'm never slowed down or stifled by "what if's?", so I'd consider my good friend in just that light.
If he's going to be better for the surgery at the end of the day, done deal.
I wouldn't consider the chemo and radiation at this point because it's not even part of the equation, nor are recurring tumors.
Being that it sounds like the surgery would be a success, I'd see if the he wants to go for a ride. :)

[mhailey]

My father is a veterinarian and i saw him counsel people on this type of situation through my whole childhood. There is no easy answer. As for me, I have a cat that, if it wasn't for my wife, I wouldn't even spend the money to vaccinate. I had another cat, that suffered from end stage renal failure, and I gave her nightly subcutaneous fluids for 1 1/2 years. She went on vacations with us so i could give her the fluids.

;s

[Subvet642]

My father is a veterinarian and i saw him counsel people on this type of situation through my whole childhood. There is no easy answer. As for me, I have a cat that, if it wasn't for my wife, I wouldn't even spend the money to vaccinate. I had another cat, that suffered from end stage renal failure, and I gave her nightly subcutaneous fluids for 1 1/2 years. She went on vacations with us so i could give her the fluids.

;s

Thank God for your wife, then.

[replicant_argent]

As a former boxer owner I can tell you that cancer is pretty prevalent in the breed. I lost my rescued and cancer survivor Tessa girl to cancer on her second time. I gave her the best I could for the four years I was able to give her after her rescue. Were I to get another boxer, I would look at pet health insurance. While this may not be possible for you at this juncture, perhaps it may help someone.

[mosesbotbol]

Personally, my theshold for surgery on an aminal is quite small. Seeing an animal suffer when the mid or long term does not look good seems cruel to me. Recovery is painful and quality of life isn't good; there's some tough choices to be made.

As much as we love our pets, we want them to have a quality of life and not suffer.

[Zane]

I can only speak for myself, but when my yellow lab was still a part of our family (rip), vet costs were not a factor since she was, in our eyes, an actual member of our family.
Medical costs for pets can be huge which is why Im glad we had insurance for her (VPI). It helped quite a bit, especially when she got older.



Thats why I have VPI as well.

[CigarNut]

One of my dogs had two bouts of cancer. The first was bone cancer in his jaw. After the x-rays, MRI and surgery to remove half of his lower jaw we were into it for about $4K. The money was hard but there was no question of spending it for my family and my special buddy.

Second time was about 3 years later -- eye cancer. He lived another three great years. And I still miss him.

This is him about 6 months before we had to put him down (due to kidney failure):

http://www.hcmbeads.com/images/perrier.jpg

One thing that shocked the heck out of me -- an acquaintence who was (I thought) a dog person told me after the first surgery that I was crazy to spend all that money when it would only cost $50 to put him down...

[Beagleone]

I recently had to go through the same thing with my beagle. It wasn't easy, from his first surgery to the last few moments we had with Bailey, it was very tough. I wouldn't do the chemo, but I tried to make his life as easy as possible. It was very sad to see him deteriorate, but he knew that we loved him. When the end came, I spent the entire morning with him before going to the vet. It was one of the saddest days in my life, but we were all there with him until the end. Good luck and I hope the best for you.

[OLS]

It might not surprise some of you to know I come from a family of old-school pragmatists
that never saw dogs as patients. Then again, we were pretty lucky with dogs and never
had any dogs that needed some kind of major treatment. But when it comes to dogs,
it is easy to think of them as part of the family and all the cliche's that people use,
because for the most part, they ring true. People really love their dogs. But with that
said, they are dogs. They do have feelings, but they cannot talk. Whether it is severe
arthritis or cancer, when it is a dogs time to go, they do NOT go to M.D. Anderson, they
go behind the barn while the kids are at school. If doctors want money to play "Dog
Mayo Clinic" on your hound, get a biopsy and that's it. If its cancer, send em off to the
doggie heaven, because it is a ton of money for a pet that can best be replaced by a
good old POUND PUP. Just because you euthanize them doesn't mean that they weren't
part of the family. It meant you cared enough about a dog that couldn't put his pain
into words to end his/her pain in a human way. People who over-extend a dog's life are
hurting two dogs...their own, and the dog at the pound who dies because you didn't need
him yet. Save two dogs, euthanize one and replace him with another that needs you, too.

[Subvet642]

It might not surprise some of you to know I come from a family of old-school pragmatists
that never saw dogs as patients. Then again, we were pretty lucky with dogs and never
had any dogs that needed some kind of major treatment. But when it comes to dogs,
it is easy to think of them as part of the family and all the cliche's that people use,
because for the most part, they ring true. People really love their dogs. But with that
said, they are dogs. They do have feelings, but they cannot talk. Whether it is severe
arthritis or cancer, when it is a dogs time to go, they do NOT go to M.D. Anderson, they
go behind the barn while the kids are at school. If doctors want money to play "Dog
Mayo Clinic" on your hound, get a biopsy and that's it. If its cancer, send em off to the
doggie heaven, because it is a ton of money for a pet that can best be replaced by a
good old POUND PUP. Just because you euthanize them doesn't mean that they weren't
part of the family. It meant you cared enough about a dog that couldn't put his pain
into words to end his/her pain in a human way. People who over-extend a dog's life are
hurting two dogs...their own, and the dog at the pound who dies because you didn't need him yet.
Save two dogs, euthanize one and replace him with another that needs you, too.

The first statement above could be said for infants, as well...

Our pets are not like broken toys, to be discarded when they wear out. They are sentient beings who are utterly dependent upon their people for absolutely everything. It is a grave responsibility.

The second statement is absurd in that it assigns guilt for the "sin" of having no need. Ergo, the deaths of ALL euthanized pound dogs would fall under this category as they also were not chosen.

I'm sorry, but that isn't pragmatic, it's icy.

[tsolomon]

For us it is a family issue as they are family pets. We first try to find out what is wrong and then if it's curable. If it's curable, what does it involve how much will it cost? There are a lot of factors to consider such as age, health and quality of life. When it comes to the questions of can you afford it and then should you do it, everyone gets to use their own balance scale to answer those questions. I have had to put down two dogs over the past year and a half. We opted for pallative care over treatment and then euthanized them when their quality of life declined, but we got to love them a little longer before saying goodbye.

[omowasu]

This is a very emotionally charged topic and I dont think there is really a right answer, except for what is right for you.

Surgery on any animal is risky, especially on a dog that has a lot less blood to lose than a human. The decision to put an animal through surgery really needs some thinking time - and its not an issue of money, its an issue of survival.

Some folks have mentioned getting a diagnosis and second opinion to determine the extent of tumor outgrowth and make a decision from there. I am inclined to agree with this and would do the same if I were in your shoes and it was my dog.

If surgery had a strong chance of helping, and the cancer wasnt metastisized, I would proceed... But if the cancer was spread and chance of survival was low or zero, I would make sure my dog had the happiest last days on earth possible and when he was too ill to function, I would put him down. And it wouldnt be easy.