2013 MLB Hall of Fame ballot [Archive] - Cigar Asylum Cigar Forum

jonumberone

11-29-2012, 09:11 AM

In what is for sure to be one of the most controversial votes in a long time, The BBWAA released the 2013 ballot for the MLB HOF.

Here is the new Hall of Fame ballot. For holdovers, numbers refer to previous year's votes, percentage of ballots and years on ballot.

Sandy Alomar Jr.
Jeff Bagwell 321, 56.0%, 2
Craig Biggio
Barry Bonds
Jeff Cirillo
Royce Clayton
Roger Clemens
Jeff Conine
Steve Finley
Julio Franco
Shawn Green
Roberto Hernandez
Ryan Klesko
Kenny Lofton
Edgar Martinez 209, 36.5%, 3
Don Mattingly 102, 17.8%, 12
Fred McGriff 137, 23.9%, 3
Mark McGwire 112, 19.5%, 6
Jose Mesa
Jack Morris 382, 66.7%, 13
Dale Murphy 83, 14.5%, 14
Rafael Palmeiro 72, 12.6%, 2
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines 279, 48.7%, 5
Reggie Sanders
Curt Schilling
Aaron Sele
Lee Smith 290, 50.6%, 10
Sammy Sosa
Mike Stanton
Alan Trammell 211, 36.8%, 11
Larry Walker 131, 22.9%, 2
Todd Walker
David Wells
Rondell White
Bernie Williams 55, 9.6%, 1
Woody Williams

Thoughts?
Who gets in? Who doesn't?
Do Clemens, Bonds, Sosa, and the like ever see the hall?

Discuss!

pnoon

11-29-2012, 09:17 AM

My choices are as follows:

Don Mattingly
Tim Raines
Lee Smith
Alan Trammell
Larry Walker

Some of the names even under consideration are comical.

"Do Clemens, Bonds, Sosa, and the like ever see the hall?
IMO, No - for the obvious reasons. But set those reasons/criteria aside and they are no-brainers.

shilala

11-29-2012, 09:45 AM

I'm excited to see what happens.
Personally, I think the Writer's couldn't possibly care about the "steroid era".
Reason being, they're educated. Ball players have always juiced and always will. Anything to give them an edge. They know how many Hall of Famers there are that used substances to help their game. That's how I think on where the bulk of the writer's personal mindset lies.

That said, they'll likely use this first ballot to test the waters. Don't vote for Bonds and Clemens and see where the public response lies. Their first loyalty is to political correctness, of course. They pander to the public and write what will keep the paychecks coming rather than what they necessarily think is true or right. I can't imagine for a minute they'll stick their necks out, enshrine a couple bobbleheads, then cross their fingers that public opinion doesn't execute them. Imagine for a minute what would be in the newspapers and on ESPN? "Baseball Writers Want Your Kids To Use Steroids!!!"

After we see the fallout from the obvious roid users not being enshrined, we should all have a good idea where this is headed. I think it's headed toward them being enshrined, but baseball is steeped in a tradition of being obstinate, so there's that.
If there's one indicator I can point to that guages public sentiment on roids, it's Lance Armstrong. He just got stripped of his titles, was juicing, blah, blah, blah. The public outcry was zero. I love Lance, everybody loves Lance. Nobody cares and everyone thinks what happened was ridiculous. We still love Lance, he's a good dude, and he's badass.
Bonds and Clemens are not good dudes, they're the opposite. If anything, it's their personalities that will make it easy not to accept them. Let's see what happens with Sammy after this year. :tu

Islayphile

11-29-2012, 10:00 AM

Fred McGriff belongs in the HOF

2490 Hits

441 2B

24 3B

493 HR

1550 RBI

.284 BA

Gophernut

11-29-2012, 10:03 AM

Do Clemens, Bonds, Sosa, and the like ever see the hall?
Discuss!

I hope not, as Peter said, no for the obvious reasons. They have hof numbers, but how did they get to them?

Of the remaining players on the ballot, I would really like to see Jack Morris get in. One of the most dominant pitchers of his era. He also had one of the best, if the not THE best, pitching performances in game 7 of the 1991 World Series.

Blak Smyth

11-29-2012, 10:14 AM

Don Mattingly

Surprised this hasn't happened yet.
I am unknowledgeable on many of these players listed.

forgop

11-29-2012, 10:15 AM

Too bad Clemens wasn't able to pitch to get a 5 year extension like he hoped.

mkarnold1

11-29-2012, 10:18 AM

Of the remaining players on the ballot, I would really like to see Jack Morris get in. One of the most dominant pitchers of his era. He also had one of the best, if the not THE best, pitching performances in game 7 of the 1991 World Series.

:tpd:, It is shocking to see Don Mattingly with such a low percentage after 12 years. At this point is seems unlikely that he gets in.

STEVE S

11-29-2012, 10:33 AM

I would love to see Don Mattingly, finally get voted in.

kelmac07

11-29-2012, 11:35 AM

:wo :wo Kenny Lofton on the ballot...he doesn't have the numbers to support an induction, but he gets my vote.

icehog3

11-29-2012, 11:35 AM

Personally, I think the Writer's couldn't possibly care about the "steroid era".
Reason being, they're educated. Ball players have always juiced and always will. Anything to give them an edge. They know how many Hall of Famers there are that used substances to help their game. That's how I think on where the bulk of the writer's personal mindset lies.

I am not sure, Scott....how do you explain 6 years of Mark McGwire? He wasn't even accused of using true anabolics, just prohormoes. Maybe the writers just don't like the guy?

mahtofire14

11-29-2012, 12:49 PM

I think it's a huge deal to the writers. They are all purists. They hold these players to such a standard that when a known steroid user makes it on the ballot they are pretty much offended by them, and rarely vote for them.

I say Lee Smith and Larry Walker get in.

The Poet

11-29-2012, 02:27 PM

My choices are as follows:
Don Mattingly

Don Mattingly

:tpd:, It is shocking to see Don Mattingly with such a low percentage after 12 years. At this point is seems unlikely that he gets in.

I would love to see Don Mattingly, finally get voted in.

I love Donnie Baseball. He's not only a major reason I'm a baseball fan now, he's the SOLE (soul??) reason I became a Yankee fan. I would love to see him get voted into the Hall.

I don't see it happening, however, unless he makes it as a manager twenty years from now.

dave

11-29-2012, 03:25 PM

Didn't read responses after OP so as not to affect my list:

Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Don Mattingly
The only three that jump out at me. No fan of the first two, but seems to me that cheaters or not, I put them in. I can't plink and plunk individuals out of an entire era. Some didn't cheat, but I believe that most did.
I admit, though, that I gave up on baseball in the 94 strike and never looked back. So, I'm no longer a fan and certainly not knowledgeable enough to entrust with a vote.

jonumberone

12-01-2012, 06:31 AM

I thought there would more discussion on this, actually I thought there would be much more vitriol aimed at the steroids players.

My ballot would look like this:

Craig Biggio
Don Mattingly
Jack Morris
Tim Raines

I think in time some of the steroids players will get in.
IMO, Bonds and Clemens are hall of famer's without steroids.
Sosa, Palmeiro and Mcgwire are a product of steroids.
That's how I see it anyways.

shilala

12-01-2012, 08:37 AM

I am not sure, Scott....how do you explain 6 years of Mark McGwire? He wasn't even accused of using true anabolics, just prohormoes. Maybe the writers just don't like the guy?
I sure don't have the answer, Tom. I have a number of guesses, is all. Even those are conflicting. :)
McGwire is a good dude and I'd vote for him in a heartbeat. His play alone might not get it, but what he's done in the community and the way he handled the steroid allegations are a positive to me.
I think he's fallen in the "nobody is going to stick their neck out" category because his play makes it easy and he's stood alone. With Bonds and Clemens (and other great steroid players coming up for election) that's going to be tougher because their play has always been excellent. Add to that the swaying of public sentiment as I see it, and a juicer might get inducted.

I don't think people make a distinction between anabolics and prohormones, specifically. Probably because they don't know the difference. At least I don't. I'm not sure if the distinction helps McGwire at all.
That makes me think to this point...
Players have used everything from amphetamines to cocaine to painkillers to booze to steroids to the drug du jour, Adderall, to get an edge. It's all the same to me and I can see why they'd do it. For some it's ego, some are trying to keep their job, some want to heal, some want to manage pain to play.

I'm as interested as anyone to see this play out. I'm hoping that the media has overdone the whole thing to death and it's made people not really care, or at least made them see that steroids do not make for a superman baseball player. Talent and practice does. Steroids just make a guy a bit more powerful, but so do a couple Vicodin when a guy has a sprained ankle.

icehog3

12-01-2012, 09:37 AM

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Scott, lots of good sense there.

For the record, anabolic steroids are illegal without a prescription, whereas prohormones are legal to sell, just not allowed for use by MLB. (I should say, legal at the time of sale, they are often made illegal after some time on the market, and usually make one small change and reappear again, legallly, with a new formula).

The Poet

12-01-2012, 12:01 PM

If we're talking legality, it behooves us to define it in baseball terms as well as purely legal ones. The careers of those either accused or confessed users of PEDs occurred during a period where their use was frowned upon and condemned by MLB, and was considered "cheating" by the fans, but when it WAS NOT SPECIFICALLY BANNED BY BASEBALL RULES. That may seem nit-picking, but it does proffer the excuse (valid or not) that a player cannot be banned from the HoF for cheating if he did not actually break the rules.

I'm not saying I want guys like Bonds, Sosa, Clemens, etc. in the Hall, or even that I'd have no problem were they elected. Still, I need confess I'd have no "legal" leg to stand upon, so could not logically justify a complaint.

mahtofire14

12-01-2012, 12:41 PM

I would go with

Bagwell
Biggio
Jack Morris
Lee Smith

Morris deserves it. Pitched one of the best pitching performance in baseball history, in the most important game of the year. Also has the career stats.

icehog3

12-01-2012, 04:23 PM

If we're talking legality, it behooves us to define it in baseball terms as well as purely legal ones. The careers of those either accused or confessed users of PEDs occurred during a period where their use was frowned upon and condemned by MLB, and was considered "cheating" by the fans, but when it WAS NOT SPECIFICALLY BANNED BY BASEBALL RULES. That may seem nit-picking, but it does proffer the excuse (valid or not) that a player cannot be banned from the HoF for cheating if he did not actually break the rules.

Absolutely true in the case of Mark McGwire and the substance androstenedione.

Stephen

12-01-2012, 04:52 PM

Omitting Clemens and Bonds (who to me are first ballot HOF guys) the only two I would vote for would be Biggio and Piazza.

Gophernut

12-01-2012, 05:22 PM

Saw on the ESPN crawl, that a preliminary count of votes showed that Bonds, Clemens, and Sosa did not get in.

bvilchez

12-01-2012, 07:06 PM

The unfortunate part of those steroid users on the current list is that I believe, IMO, that without the substances they took they still would have been extraordinary players. I don't know if they would have been putting up numbers like they did but their performance would have still been superb enough to get them inducted.

icehog3

12-01-2012, 07:36 PM

mase

12-01-2012, 08:28 PM

Surprised no one mentioned Piazza. Greatest offensive catcher ever. I think he makes it.

icehog3

12-01-2012, 10:01 PM

Omitting Clemens and Bonds (who to me are first ballot HOF guys) the only two I would vote for would be Biggio and Piazza.

Surprised no one mentioned Piazza. Greatest offensive catcher ever. I think he makes it.

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa73/icehog3/doh-1.jpg

dozer

12-04-2012, 11:27 PM

I'd be surprised if Bagwell didn't juice, yet he will most likely get in at some point. I just don't see how you can keep Bonds out when there will be users that eventually slide through.

Stephen

12-05-2012, 09:02 AM

I'd be surprised if Bagwell didn't juice, yet he will most likely get in at some point. I just don't see how you can keep Bonds out when there will be users that eventually slide through.
Yep. Completely stupid. Ditto for Clemens. The best pitcher and the best everyday player from this generation and neither one will be in the HOF (anytime soon at least) because of speculation.

The Poet

12-05-2012, 12:58 PM

Surprised no one mentioned Piazza. Greatest offensive catcher ever.

And possibly the worst defensive catcher ever too, so there's that also. :tu

:D

dozer

12-05-2012, 11:17 PM

Despite his shortcomings defensively, Piazza deserves to be in...I am still holding out for Edgar as a dh...

jonumberone

01-08-2013, 06:28 AM

The ballot results will be announced tomorrow @ 2PM ET

Gophernut

01-09-2013, 12:03 PM

The ballot results will be announced tomorrow @ 2PM ET

Nobody gets in. Interesting.

kelmac07

01-09-2013, 12:09 PM

Come on now...not one person?? I guess the writers are holding everyone that played in the "sterioid era" hostage. I, for one, completely disagree with this decision. BOOOO!!!

Gophernut

01-09-2013, 12:13 PM

I agree Mac, I thought that Biggio, Piazza, and Morris should have gotten in.

E.J.

01-09-2013, 01:56 PM

Not surprised & not even sure I am disappointed. It will be interesting to see if the big names get in later. There is something to be said for being a first ballot guy and you knew because of their history, they weren't going to be FBG's.

I thought Biggio may slide in.

Next year they'll get some 1st ballot guys.....

E.J.

01-09-2013, 02:02 PM

Those mentioning Piazza, I had always assumed he was a juicer....and don't think I'm alone. Though he isn't Bonds, Mac, Sosa, Clemens et. al., I think he gets lumped in with the PED guys.

jonumberone

01-09-2013, 05:55 PM

Interesting results, indeed.
The writers set out to send a message.
I'm not really sure how I feel about this.
One thing is for certain, I am starting to dislike these writers (not just in baseball) who vote.
They use "integrity of the game" as the main reason to keep guys out!
Then they use these ballots to settle grudges and personal vendettas.
Where's the integrity in that? :confused:

The BBWAA election rules say: "Voting shall be based upon the player's record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played."

icehog3

01-09-2013, 07:20 PM

They use "integrity of the game" as the main reason to keep guys out!
Then they use these ballots to settle grudges and personal vendettas.
Where's the integrity in that? :confused:

Couldn't agree with you more, Dom. :tu

VirtualSmitty

01-10-2013, 05:18 AM

Craig Biggio
Don Mattingly
Bernie Wiliams

Stephen

01-10-2013, 07:10 AM

I couldn't have said it any better myself... (http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/47091/the-fallacy-of-the-baseball-hall-of-fame)

icehog3

01-10-2013, 07:58 AM

I couldn't have said it any better myself... (http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/47091/the-fallacy-of-the-baseball-hall-of-fame)

Interesting read, thanks Stephen. :tu

pnoon

01-10-2013, 09:00 AM

Nobody got in?!?!?!

They could have at least given Ray Lewis the Humanitarian Award.
:=:

;s
I know. I'm sad and pathetic.

Stephen

01-10-2013, 09:46 AM

Nobody got in?!?!?!

They could have at least given Ray Lewis the Humanitarian Award.
:=:
Ray Lewis would kill to get into the Hall of Fame. :rd

STEVE S

01-10-2013, 10:49 AM

I guess the list was so controversial that the voters (writers), couldn't even get one person voted in. How sad is that?? :sh

icehog3

01-10-2013, 11:25 AM

Nobody got in?!?!?!

They could have at least given Ray Lewis the Humanitarian Award.
:=:

;s
I know. I'm sad and pathetic.

Not to mention rude and unattractive. ;)

icehog3

01-10-2013, 11:26 AM

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/8831305/hall-famers-glad-barry-bonds-roger-clemens-denied

OLS

01-10-2013, 11:33 AM

Stephen

01-10-2013, 01:46 PM

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/8831305/hall-famers-glad-barry-bonds-roger-clemens-denied
Gossage and Eckersley piping up about this is irony at its finest.

Stephen

01-10-2013, 01:53 PM

Actually they should have voted the entire steroid class in at one time, rigged the balloting and all to do it,
then erected a special room JUST for them...a closet of sorts. That way if everybody would play clean,
we could just move on. But what would I care, baseball escapes me.
Do we also get a, "greenies" wing, a, "doctored the ball" wing, and a, "played prior to segregation" wing, too? It's a museum, not a choir loft.

icehog3

01-10-2013, 02:02 PM

Gossage and Eckersley piping up about this is irony at its finest.

Backround, please....What were Eckersley and Gossage's "vices"? :)

The Poet

01-10-2013, 02:10 PM

But what would I care, baseball escapes me.

Score that an "E-6" on your cards, kids. :D

gorob23

01-10-2013, 02:10 PM

Backround, please....What were Eckersley and Gossage's "vices"? :)

They hated the cold! They played them game the right way....

Rob :tu

14holestogie

01-10-2013, 03:36 PM

Not to mention rude and unattractive. ;)

I typed out that same reply a couple of times but thought better of it. :r

But, I concur. :noon

pnoon

01-10-2013, 03:43 PM

Bless you all. :tg

Stephen

01-10-2013, 04:59 PM

Backround, please....What were Eckersley and Gossage's "vices"? :)
Gossage was long rumored to doctor the ball, and since apparently all we need now our allegations...

But more to the point. Both Gossage and Eckersley were in that Oakland clubhouse (Eckersley more so than Gossage) when the Bash Brothers & Co. were doing their thing (and both benefiting might I add). I won't go so far as to say that they were complicit by their silence, but if they didn't speak up then, they come off as self-righteous b!tches sounding off 20 years later. :2

Stephen

01-10-2013, 05:19 PM

Gossage was long rumored to doctor the ball, and since apparently all we need now our allegations...
*are* not *our*. Blasted 15 minute time limit edit. :D

icehog3

01-10-2013, 05:41 PM

Stephen

01-10-2013, 06:21 PM

Thanks, Stephen. :tu
No problem, boss. I know I'm in the minority in all of this, but I must say, it is a a tad entertaining to see the BWAA voters catch some blowback over how this has been handled.

icehog3

01-10-2013, 07:22 PM

No problem, boss. I know I'm in the minority in all of this, but I must say, it is a a tad entertaining to see the BWAA voters catch some blowback over how this has been handled.

Yup, I am no fan of the writers associatrion either.

jonumberone

01-11-2013, 06:15 AM

Gossage was long rumored to doctor the ball, and since apparently all we need now our allegations...

But more to the point. Both Gossage and Eckersley were in that Oakland clubhouse (Eckersley more so than Gossage) when the Bash Brothers & Co. were doing their thing (and both benefiting might I add). I won't go so far as to say that they were complicit by their silence, but if they didn't speak up then, they come off as self-righteous b!tches sounding off 20 years later. :2

To be fair I've never heard of Gossage doctoring the ball.
Also, Gossage didn't get to Oakland until 92' and left in 93'.
92' was Canseco's last year in Oakland, as he was traded at the deadline.
In 93',Gossage's last year, Mcguire only played 27 games for the A's.
I understand your point of "all we need now are allegations", and I'll give you your gripe with Eckersley, but to lump Gossage in with to your argument, is painting with too broad a brush.

I'm glad you bring up the bash brothers.
It seems to me, a lot of people think the steroids era started in 98, when Sosa and McGuire both broke the record.
I clearly remember allegations against McGuire, Canseco and the like, going back to 87' when Mcguire hit 49 HR as a rookie, and 88' when Canseco became the first member of the 40/40 club.
I wonder why the writers haven't held steroids against players that played in the late 80's - early 90's?

Stephen

01-11-2013, 01:03 PM

To be fair I've never heard of Gossage doctoring the ball.
Also, Gossage didn't get to Oakland until 92' and left in 93'.
92' was Canseco's last year in Oakland, as he was traded at the deadline.
In 93',Gossage's last year, Mcguire only played 27 games for the A's.
I understand your point of "all we need now are allegations", and I'll give you your gripe with Eckersley, but to lump Gossage in with to your argument, is painting with too broad a brush.
Which is more than enough time with a ballclub to have known what was happening is a pretty safe assumption to make, wouldn't you say?
I'm glad you bring up the bash brothers.
It seems to me, a lot of people think the steroids era started in 98, when Sosa and McGuire both broke the record.
I clearly remember allegations against McGuire, Canseco and the like, going back to 87' when Mcguire hit 49 HR as a rookie, and 88' when Canseco became the first member of the 40/40 club.
I wonder why the writers haven't held steroids against players that played in the late 80's - early 90's?
Yeah, there's a lot of sports writers out there with egg on their face. They either:

1. Sucked at their job and were oblivious as to what was going on
2. Knew what was going on and turned a blind eye, thus making them sucky at their job AND hypocrites

Blueface

01-11-2013, 01:14 PM

Surprised no one mentioned Piazza. Greatest offensive catcher ever. I think he makes it.

I am afraid I am to blame for that.
Rumor has it after he was seen hanging out with me in San Juan late November, his chances of the HOF went to crap.

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s167/cmach_photo/5E79E671-8D00-4B4C-9932-C326B6E0E0A8-39758-00001B17697D8AF3.jpg

The Poet

01-11-2013, 02:33 PM

I am afraid I am to blame for that.
Rumor has it after he was seen hanging out with me in San Juan late November, his chances of the HOF went to crap.

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s167/cmach_photo/5E79E671-8D00-4B4C-9932-C326B6E0E0A8-39758-00001B17697D8AF3.jpg

Nice pic.

Speaking of nice "picks", did he allow any passed balls down there, or peg the ball into center field instead of to second base? :r

Gophernut

01-11-2013, 03:04 PM

Nice pic.

Speaking of nice "picks", did he allow any passed balls down there, or peg the ball into center field instead of to second base? :r

I was going to ask if you could feel his backne through his shirt or maybe it had cleared up by then..

Stephen

01-11-2013, 06:51 PM

I was going to ask if you could feel his backne through his shirt or maybe it had cleared up by then..
I laughed.

Starscream

01-12-2013, 12:32 PM

jonumberone

01-08-2014, 05:25 PM

Another year gone by and none of the steroid players get in.
I figured it would be awhile until Bonds or Clemens got close, but I thought Piazza or Biggio might get the nod.
I also thought Mussina and Schilling might get in.
So the saga continues.
Do these guys ever see the hall?

kelmac07

01-08-2014, 05:35 PM

I say no...although I feel they deserve to be in there, just like Pete Rose does.

icehog3

01-08-2014, 08:00 PM

Rafael Palmiero off the ballot.....

mahtofire14

01-08-2014, 09:02 PM

Feel pretty crappy that Jack Morris won't ever be in the hall. No 300 wins but the guy was the dominant pitcher of his era AND he pitched arguable one of the best pitching performances in World Series History.

After not getting in today he said I was upset but glad it's over. 15 years of hearing my critics was long enough.

kelmac07

01-08-2014, 09:04 PM

E.J.

01-09-2014, 12:08 AM

What type of douche doesn't vote for Maddux? I shake my head at the process....

E.J.

01-09-2014, 12:11 AM

"I'm going to be THE GUY that makes a first ballot HOF'er, not"

No to mention Biggio, yea...make him wait one more year...:rolleyes:

The Poet

01-09-2014, 04:48 AM

What type of douche doesn't vote for Maddux? I shake my head at the process....

If you were following this "saga" on the interweb, you know the stink some raised about Maddux not being the first unanimous HOFer. Me, I don't see the big deal. He got in with a landslide, so who should care? IMHO, though Maddux certainly earned his election on the first ballot, the only player I have witnessed lately who deserves to be elected unanimously is Mariano Rivera . . . and five years from now that ain't gonna happen either. I won't care, and neither will Mo.

I doubt if Greg does either.

jonumberone

01-09-2014, 05:41 AM

If you think Maddux not being a unanimous selection is a sin, consider the fact that Joe Dimaggio wasn't elected on his first ballot.
He didn't get in until his 3rd try.

The Poet

01-09-2014, 05:51 AM

If you think Maddux not being a unanimous selection is a sin, consider the fact that Joe Dimaggio wasn't elected on his first ballot.
He didn't get in until his 3rd try.

'Er ya go. Consider that, as well as the fact than NOBODY'S been elected unanimously yet. You really think Greg Maddux was better than anybody else ever elected? Plu-leeeze.

pnoon

01-09-2014, 06:42 AM

If you think Maddux not being a unanimous selection is a sin, consider the fact that Joe Dimaggio wasn't elected on his first ballot.
He didn't get in until his 3rd try.

That's because the Hall of Fame used to be for great (elite) players. Now it can be referred to as the Hall of Good. Any player who had a decent career is on the ballot now. And some get in.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it. :2

The Poet

01-09-2014, 07:18 AM

I get your point, Peter, but it does not explain why Don Mattingly received only 8.2% of the votes, which is less than Roger Clemens, Barry Bonds, Lee Smith, Mike Mussina, Jeff Kent, Mark McGwire, and Larry Walker (Larry Walker? Who the fark is Larry Walker? :D), and only slightly more than Sammy Sosa. True, the stats of many exceed Donnie's, but many are also on that "tainted" list.

E.J.

01-09-2014, 09:39 AM

I stick to the fact that not voting for someone who is clearly the elite of the elite, a 1st ballot HOFer if there ever was one, just "because it's the way it is done" is a joke. We are not talking about someone who needs discussion, arguments for or against.... he's in, everyone knows he's in and there are those that don't vote for him related to history of how it has been done or whatever....it is a joke.

I am sure Maddux could not care less, but I care. As stated above, I shake my head & roll my eyes at the process....

The Poet

01-09-2014, 10:14 AM

As stated above, I shake my head & roll my eyes at the process....

That's allowed, brother. Just don't expect it to change. :r

E.J.

01-09-2014, 10:54 AM

That's allowed, brother. Just don't expect it to change. :r

I don't....usually never giving it a second thought, even this time of year. Maddux is special to me, so there is just some extra "rock in the shoe" with this one....

On the flip side, he's in and I'm heading to Sun Valley, ID for the weekend, things are looking up....:tu

The Poet

01-09-2014, 10:56 AM

I don't....usually never giving it a second thought, even this time of year. Maddux is special to me, so there is just some extra "rock in the shoe" with this one....

On the flip side, he's in and I'm heading to Sun Valley, ID for the weekend, things are looking up....:tu

Hope you get some fresh powder to soften the feel of that rock in your shoe. :tu