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View Full Version : Does "Icing" the kicker really work?


Justinphilly
09-30-2012, 11:19 PM
Tonight the Eagles beat the Giants in a nail biter. But, with 15 seconds left the Giants had a chance to take the lead but missed the kick. BUT WAIT, Andy Ried called a timeout. He missed the first, and the second attempt.

The question is. "Isn't this whole concept bush-league, and shouldn't it be stopped?"

NeuRon
09-30-2012, 11:55 PM
I think its one of the stupidest strategies in all of sports; not just football..

Besides the fact that it doesnt really work, it is kind of common sense. In most cases, your giving the kicker a practice kick anyways..

bobarian
10-01-2012, 12:11 AM
Tonight the Eagles beat the Giants in a nail biter. But, with 15 seconds left the Giants had a chance to take the lead but missed the kick. BUT WAIT, Andy Ried called a timeout. He missed the first, and the second attempt.

The question is. "Isn't this whole concept bush-league, and shouldn't it be stopped?"

How is it "bush league" to use a timeout that would otherwise go to waste?
It doesnt matter if it works or not. :sh

I think its one of the stupidest strategies in all of sports; not just football..

What other sport is it used to make a kicker delay a kick?

Besides the fact that it doesnt really work, it is kind of common sense. In most cases, your giving the kicker a practice kick anyways..

If it worked once in the history of football, then it works. Your statement is just silly.

NeuRon
10-01-2012, 12:15 AM
All sports involve niche strategies.. And out of all of them, i believe this to be the dumbest..

BTW, This is a thread based on opinion, is it not? So to me, YOUR statement is silly..

NeuRon
10-01-2012, 12:17 AM
So by your submission, doing something once (out of a million tries) successfully means it will work (yes), but does that make it smart? (nope)

Alot of people have tried to rob banks.. Sure its worked plenty of times, and people get away with it.. does that make it a gleaming idea?

bobarian
10-01-2012, 12:48 AM
Your statements are completely void of facts. If a team has a timeout why not use it before the game ends? Please give me a viable reason or something based upon fact that would show this to be a flawed strategy and a waste of time?

Please cite another sports example of such a "niche" strategy? Maybe a batter stepping out the box to get the pitcher out of his rhythm? "The Shift"?
A golfer using his putter as a plumb bob? Deferring a winning coin toss to the second half? Spiking the ball to stop the clock? :sh

NeuRon
10-01-2012, 12:56 AM
http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/34217/icing-the-kicker-remains-ineffective-practice

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7318214/icing-kicker-work

NeuRon
10-01-2012, 12:58 AM
Your statements are completely void of facts.

Thats because it was my opinion.... :)

Please cite another sports example of such a "niche" strategy? Maybe a batter stepping out the box to get the pitcher out of his rhythm? "The Shift"?
A golfer using his putter as a plumb bob? Deferring a winning coin toss to the second half? Spiking the ball to stop the clock?

Oh, and you forgot Hack a Shaq :)

elderboy02
10-01-2012, 06:04 AM
Icing doesn't work. I have read many articles where in fact, not icing the kicker usually works in favor of the team who didn't call a time out.

Blak Smyth
10-01-2012, 06:08 AM
Depends on the kicker and situation, it works occasionaly. If I was a kicker, I would hate it. As a fan I don't care as long as it doesn't work against my team :D

BlkDrew
10-01-2012, 07:35 AM
The packers and saints game last night was a great example. In the last 3 minutes of the game.

NeuRon
10-01-2012, 07:46 AM
^^guys we are gonna need more evidence and facts!! Opinion doesnt matter!! :) :)

Blak Smyth
10-01-2012, 07:52 AM
From wiki:
"A study was undertaken by Scott Berry, a statistician and the former chairman of the Statistics in Sports section of the American Statistical Association, and Craig Wood, a biostatistician and the Henry Hood Center for Health Research Pillar Award winner, which was published in 2004 in the journal Chance. Berry and Wood looked at every field-goal attempt made in the 2002 and 2003 NFL seasons, including playoffs, and concluded that, for "pressure kicks" – those made with 3 minutes or less remaining in the game or overtime period which would tie the game up or put the kicking team in the lead – in the 40-55 yard range, icing the kicker caused the percentage of successful attempts to drop by about ten percent for an average kicker on a sunny day. On shorter kicks, the effect was found to be negligible. However, the statistical signficance of the difference found – which amounted to four kicks out of 39 attempts – has been questioned, and an examination by Nick Stamms of STATS, Inc. found that "pressure kicks" (defined as above except within two minutes, not three) in the NFL regular season from 1991 to 2005 showed an insignificant difference between non-iced kicks (457 out of 637, or 71.7%) and iced kicks (152 out of 211 or 72%)."

Take it for what it is worth.

Stephen
10-01-2012, 08:18 AM
Please cite another sports example of such a "niche" strategy?
As dumb as, "icing" the kicker? That's easy. Sliding into first base.

forgop
10-01-2012, 08:53 AM
What does work is getting the timeout called only for the kicker to miss and be granted the timeout, only then to go on and kick the game winning FG.

MajorCaptSilly
10-01-2012, 09:09 AM
Some teams have an invisible guy who whispers lines from Chinatown to the kicker during the timeout. It works better when he sounds like Jack.

MCS

Bigsam
10-01-2012, 09:41 AM
These guys are pro's they are use to pressure. I think it does work part of the time but for the most part I think there either going to miss or make it by how the kick is executed not by being iced. But even if there's a slight chance I think I would want to ice him. I don't like how they do it a milisecond before the kick is made Ice him when they line up. It almost blew up in Andy Reids face if he had a toch more on it Giants win but then again Giants fault I thought there was some terrible play calling on that last drive I would have tried picking up 5 to seven yards to give my kicker a chance but then again they probably forgot more football hen I will ever know.

fhrblig
10-01-2012, 11:21 AM
It only works when Mike Shanahan does it.

smitty81
10-01-2012, 11:41 AM
What gets me is that they were IN field goal range after being given a Defensive pass interference call. Why not just run the ball for a few more yards with 1:15 left on the clock and 2-3 downs. Why pass the ball and risk the penalty or interception. They got an offensive pass interference call and moved them out of range. They also had 15 seconds left and 2 more downs. I would have tried a pass and a spike at that point knowing your kickers range. That passing play came back to bite them in the butt.

I just don't get the play calling in the end.

CigarNut
10-01-2012, 12:11 PM
From wiki:
"A study was undertaken by Scott Berry, a statistician and the former chairman of the Statistics in Sports section of the American Statistical Association, and Craig Wood, a biostatistician and the Henry Hood Center for Health Research Pillar Award winner, which was published in 2004 in the journal Chance. Berry and Wood looked at every field-goal attempt made in the 2002 and 2003 NFL seasons, including playoffs, and concluded that, for "pressure kicks" those made with 3 minutes or less remaining in the game or overtime period which would tie the game up or put the kicking team in the lead in the 40-55 yard range, icing the kicker caused the percentage of successful attempts to drop by about ten percent for an average kicker on a sunny day. On shorter kicks, the effect was found to be negligible. However, the statistical signficance of the difference found which amounted to four kicks out of 39 attempts has been questioned, and an examination by Nick Stamms of STATS, Inc. found that "pressure kicks" (defined as above except within two minutes, not three) in the NFL regular season from 1991 to 2005 showed an insignificant difference between non-iced kicks (457 out of 637, or 71.7%) and iced kicks (152 out of 211 or 72%)."

Take it for what it is worth.Thanks for siting factual information Shane!

NeuRon
01-14-2013, 04:23 AM
Ask Pete Carroll how he feels abot icing a kicker now

Unreal. They would have won that game... DUMB

Ubiquitous
01-14-2013, 05:19 AM
Ask Pete Carroll how he feels abot icing a kicker now

Unreal. They would have won that game... DUMB

Don't let that take away from Russell Wilson playing like a ROCKSTAR:noon:noon:noon

jonumberone
01-14-2013, 05:26 AM
Ask Pete Carroll how he feels abot icing a kicker now

Unreal. They would have won that game... DUMB

FWIW, that timeout came well before the snap of the ball, and so did the whistle.
I think when it was snapped, and subsequently kicked, the center, holder, and kicker were well aware that it was a "practice try". :2

SvilleKid
01-14-2013, 06:56 AM
What does work is getting the timeout called only for the kicker to miss and be granted the timeout, only then to go on and kick the game winning FG.

Which is what happened on the Falcon's/Seahawk Game with 8? seconds left yesterday. What was a hoot on that game was watching Pete Carroll strut and fuss around the sidelines like he didn't know who called the timeout, when the cameras clearly showed him telling the ref "timeout" right before the snap. Atlanta kicker missed that kick. But he made the kick on the second try after the timeout, and won the game for Atlanta. It clearly put Seattle out of the playoffs! And it was a 49 yard kick, with under 10 seconds. Pretty much as high pressure as it gets! Against Pete Carroll. Couldn't happen to a more deserving coach (not team). In my opinion, of course!

OLS
01-14-2013, 07:21 AM
Icing doesn't work. I have read many articles where in fact, not icing the kicker usually works in favor of the team who didn't call a time out.
I tend to believe THIS. I think they have always said kickers are mini-mental cases to begin with.
If the kicker KNOWS there is a timeout remaining, and he is going through his routine, RIGHT UP TO
SECOND that ball is snapped, the kicker is waiting for the whistle to blow, and NOT thinking about the kick.

"IS LUCY GOING TO PULL THAT FOOTBALL OUT OF THERE??"

To me it's like running to set up play action. You HAVE to run now and again to make the play action a viable
threat. I see not calling that timeout most of the time as a strategy. Provided of course that you occasionally
DO call one. ;)