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icehog3
09-09-2012, 12:46 AM
I heard lots of headlines about him being shut down, but I thought that was just for the regular season. So, the Nationals have the best record in the majors, but Strasburg won't pitch in the playoffs?

I read about the long term health concerns....I get it. I still think it's odd. What are other baseball fans' thoughts?

Mattso3000
09-09-2012, 12:53 AM
I would have thought if they wanted to limit innings they should have had him going on 6 or 7 days rest with a 6 inning per game cap long ago. I think shutting him down is a bad idea if they plan to have him available at all for the postseason.

Angry_Pirate
09-09-2012, 01:00 AM
I read an interview with Chipper Jones before a game with the Nats a week or so ago and he said that it was crazy after playing 140 plus games and have a great record and a chance of going to the World Series to sit a great pitcher like Strasburg. You never know what the next season might hold injuries etc.. as Chipper said it could be a once in a lifetime opportunity. I don't know much about the injury itself or the long term effects but I couldn't imagine Nationals fans being to pleased about it.

tsolomon
09-09-2012, 08:16 AM
As a Nat fan, I think it both sucks and is the right thing to do. We have a good starting rotation and bullpen along with the return of Lannan everything still looks good. They told everyone at the begining of the season that they were going to shut him down for health reasons and stuck to it. Kudos to them for sticking to the plan, but I really hope that Strasburg can deal with it. :2

massphatness
09-09-2012, 08:36 AM
Rare that you see a professional franchise do the right think for the long term when following a different path could benefit the short term. I give the Nats props.

elderboy02
09-09-2012, 09:10 AM
I think they are crazy. If my team is in 1st place, I want to win the World Series.

Sauer Grapes
09-09-2012, 09:16 AM
They are crazy. If they wanted to limit him, they should have started doing so earlier in the season so he could pitch in the playoffs and not hit his limit.

icehog3
09-09-2012, 10:06 AM
I would have thought if they wanted to limit innings they should have had him going on 6 or 7 days rest with a 6 inning per game cap long ago. I think shutting him down is a bad idea if they plan to have him available at all for the postseason.

That's the thing, Matt....they are NOT pitching him in the postseason. I think that's nuts. :2

ChicagoWhiteSox
09-09-2012, 10:34 AM
The Nats are just stupid IMO. Why didn't they skip some of his starts during the last 140 games if they are worried about his inning count? Now, they pull him for the rest of the season.. Talk about an inexperience ball club.. He would have helped them NOW, nothing is guaranteed for next season or the one after. Each year you try to build a club that can help you win NOW, and also make strategic moves to plan and build for the coming years. There is a balance of both short term and long term investment planning. Clearly the Nats don't have the right people in the front office:2

VirtualSmitty
09-09-2012, 10:38 AM
Rare that you see a professional franchise do the right think for the long term when following a different path could benefit the short term. I give the Nats props.

Same. I'm impressed they are actually following through with it.

ChicagoWhiteSox
09-09-2012, 10:40 AM
As a Nat fan, I think it both sucks and is the right thing to do. We have a good starting rotation and bullpen along with the return of Lannan everything still looks good. They told everyone at the begining of the season that they were going to shut him down for health reasons and stuck to it. Kudos to them for sticking to the plan, but I really hope that Strasburg can deal with it. :2

They could have made plans to pitch him less during the regular season so that he would be able to pitch in the post season... Poor planning is really all I see with this move. Certainly shutting him down hurts the Nats starting rotation, I don't see anyone that would fill his shoes. Why hurt your club that has a very good shot of winning the whole show?

ChicagoWhiteSox
09-09-2012, 10:44 AM
Rare that you see a professional franchise do the right think for the long term when following a different path could benefit the short term. I give the Nats props.

The Nats hurt themselves bad by not planning this thing right. They could have had their cake and ate it too. Balance between short term and long term investment is clearly not the Nats thinking right now.

tsolomon
09-09-2012, 11:22 AM
They could have made plans to pitch him less during the regular season so that he would be able to pitch in the post season... Poor planning is really all I see with this move. Certainly shutting him down hurts the Nats starting rotation, I don't see anyone that would fill his shoes. Why hurt your club that has a very good shot of winning the whole show?
They could have done a lot of things but he came back from surgery to have a successful season. They had a rehab plan in place and followed it. The team has played really well through injuries to a number of players and they'll get through this.

ChicagoWhiteSox
09-09-2012, 11:43 AM
They could have done a lot of things but he came back from surgery to have a successful season. They had a rehab plan in place and followed it. The team has played really well through injuries to a number of players and they'll get through this.

I understand they've already implemented their plan and that it is too late to change anything or allow him to pitch in the post, but I'm just saying they didn't do it right. They could have planned it so that he could have pitched in the post season while still having a successful rehab.

gorob23
09-09-2012, 11:44 AM
TOUGH call

but

David Clyde...

I think the line of thinking is give up one season for many...

but..

why not tailor the program to include the possibility of getting into the playoffs.

But

The Goal is TO GET INTO THE PLAYOFFS and then try and take it from there so the thinking was probably "lets try and use him as long as we can to try and get us there and then win it without him in the final games

I could argue this with myself for hours... :sh

but

I do understand the move

Rob ;s

ChicagoWhiteSox
09-09-2012, 11:46 AM
That's the thing Rob, the Nats are not promised a post season next year, or the year after that! All they can do is do everything they can to win in the present and balance that with making conscious moves to help them in the future as well.

gorob23
09-09-2012, 11:50 AM
That's the thing Rob, the Nats are not promised a post season next year, or the year after that! All they can do is do everything they can to win in the present and balance that with making conscious moves to help them in the future as well.

All correct but gotta play the odds do you want the kid for ONE season or many...

"you don't save a pitcher for tomorrow because Tomorrow it might rain"

Look you know These guys want to win, so THIS must have been one tough call for many reasons. :sh

Rob

ChicagoWhiteSox
09-09-2012, 11:56 AM
All correct but gotta play the odds do you want the kid for ONE season or many...

"you don't save a pitcher for tomorrow because Tomorrow it might rain"

Look you know These guys want to win, so THIS must have been one tough call for many reasons. :sh

Rob

Yeah I'm sure they want to win, but I think now that the reality of their planning for the kid is coming to fruition, they must be kicking themselves. There was a way to preseve him for future seasons while also preserving the present season. Chicago has done a little bit of preserving a young pitcher in Chris Sale. He's had at least 3 of his planned starts skipped to keep him fresh for the hopeful post season, while also preserving him for seasons to come. Damn what a season the Nats are having though!

icehog3
09-09-2012, 05:03 PM
I agree with you, Nate. When they were in a great position come late July, why not limit his starts and have some innings left for the postseason. Lots of teams only make the dance once or twice a decade, not sure why they didn't plan better and have him available for playoff games.

Starscream
09-09-2012, 05:44 PM
I'm on the fence on this one. I see the point in limiting him and protecting the future. At the same time there's data out there that show that limiting innings after TJ surgery is really not necessary (atleast to the point that the Natsare limiting him to. I don't want to see anyone's career ruined due to neglect, but at the same time, don't be overly cautious either when you have a World Series caliber team. Strasburg could mean the difference in bringing a championship to a franchise that has never won it all.

blugill
09-09-2012, 06:26 PM
It's horrible!
He's on my fantasy team and I'm hanging on to fifth place by the skin of my teeth!!

kelmac07
09-09-2012, 11:01 PM
Nothing is going to guarantee his health...or that the Nats will this good next year. Although I understand they are looking out for his future...why not go for the glory now?? :2

bobarian
09-10-2012, 12:20 AM
Its a lose/lose situation really. They have several hundred million dollars invested and its about time that GM's and owners start to realize that their investments are long term. Much like the concussion situation in the NFL, the players dont always do whats best in the long run. I do admire the team for sticking to their guns, but its tough on the fans. :2

gorob23
09-10-2012, 11:43 AM
PLANNING.... I think thats what we are all really saying .......

Rob :tu

Hey just a thought, think they know what a "Snow Globe" is :sl

Rob ;s

dave
09-10-2012, 12:06 PM
Heck...the management and doctors don't really know anything for sure. He's their best pitcher. He should have been starting every third game. If he went over 250 innings, dial it back to every fourth.


I, for one, wholeheartedly applaud the Nats organization. The science and 'evidence' may not be 100% conclusive, but I find it hard to argue that this isn't good for his long-term health (and the team's.)

Bigwaved
09-12-2012, 09:49 PM
it is the right move. The medical data to support it has been explained. I am satisfied with the pitching staff even without him. They play really solid defense and their offense has started to boom with the return of the players who have been injured. Like most everything in the press nowadays, anything to stir up the **** is what is makes the "news". Ask the Cubs fans how Wood turned out...

MedicCook
09-12-2012, 10:16 PM
Look what the Yankees did with Joba and the innings limits and messing around with him because he was a young arm that they wanted to preserve for the long haul. He still blew his elbow out and had to have Tommy John surgery. If you have a team that can win the World Series you do everything in your power to win now. Plus what is this going to do to him if the Nats win the World Series with him sitting on the bench. What kind of issues will now come up in the clubhouse between him and his teammates. The Nats knew before Spring Training what his innings limit would be and they should have planned accordingly like others have said.

icehog3
09-13-2012, 01:31 AM
If you have a team that can win the World Series you do everything in your power to win now.

I agree....lots of teams don't get a second chance.

The Nats knew before Spring Training what his innings limit would be and they should have planned accordingly like others have said.

Exactly.

gorob23
09-13-2012, 10:18 AM
LOOK the bottom line is I hurt my throwing shoulder playing volleyball and I haven't been able to throw B.P. in 6 years...

Rob ;s

ChicagoWhiteSox
09-13-2012, 10:19 AM
LOOK the bottom line is I hurt my throwing shoulder playing volleyball and I haven't been able to throw B.P. in 6 years...

Rob ;s


Which club? Why didn't they try to preserve you for long term BP?:r:r

jonumberone
10-06-2012, 07:29 AM
So, does Strasburg wind up on the postseason roster?
I know the GM says no, but at what point do they start to reconsider?
If they move into the NLCS? Or the World Series?
Do you think they will play in a World Series, with arguably, their top pitcher on the bench?
How big will the uproar be if they get knocked out of an elimination game,with Edwin Jackson on the hill, and Strasburg on the bench?
Should be pretty fascinating to watch this unfold.

NeuRon
10-06-2012, 08:04 AM
there has been alot of great points in this thread about long term preservation.. but its the Nats. c'mon now.. This might be their best chance to get something going.. i say they get him in the lineup and get him one start and see what happens.. He is rested, albeit not overly rested.. He could probably have some quality showings.

i DO give them credit for sticking to their guns, but seriously, they are killing their fans right now, and if this thing backfires, they will never hear the end of it

jonumberone
10-10-2012, 01:56 PM
And so it begins!

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/washington-nationals-missing-stephen-strasburg-presence-in-the-postseason-100912

If the Cards hold on, and win todays game, it's going to get a lot deeper for Mike Rizzo

icehog3
10-10-2012, 06:43 PM
31 years since this franchise was in the postseason (when they were the Montreal Expos). I am no less confused by the Nats lack of planning today than I was when I started this thread.

alloy
10-12-2012, 06:54 AM
And so it begins!

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/washington-nationals-missing-stephen-strasburg-presence-in-the-postseason-100912

If the Cards hold on, and win todays game, it's going to get a lot deeper for Mike Rizzo


Thank you Mr. Detweiler/ JZimm/ Clippard/ Storen! Oh yeah, props to Mr. Jason "Bang Zoom Game Saving, Season Saving" Werth!
:banger

tsolomon
10-12-2012, 09:25 AM
All I can say is :bdh. Go Nats, go Gio! :banger

icehog3
10-12-2012, 11:24 AM
This debate will go on unless the Nats win it all. :2

gorob23
10-12-2012, 02:23 PM
Which club? Why didn't they try to preserve you for long term BP?:r:r

Moved to volleyball , much more pleasant if you lose :tu

Rob :tf

Bigwaved
10-12-2012, 11:30 PM
This thread has been about as stupid as it gets, imo. I cannot wait for all of the "experts" to "educate" everyone on how shutting the kid down "cost" them. Where are the ****ing Rolaids? I am sure everyone who disagrees with what they did is a "medical expert" that lends something more than a Holiday Inn Express point of view. :rolleyes: The closer gives up four runs in the 9th to hand the Cards the game. Yup, blame the series on no Strasburg. Bravo...BTW, what are the lottery numbers while you are at it?

ChicagoWhiteSox
10-12-2012, 11:36 PM
This thread has been about as stupid as it gets, imo. I cannot wait for all of the "experts" to "educate" everyone on how shutting the kid down "cost" them. Where are the ****ing Rolaids? I am sure everyone who disagrees with what they did is a "medical expert" that lends something more than a Holiday Inn Express point of view. :rolleyes: The closer gives up four runs in the 9th to hand the Cards the game. Yup, blame the series on no Strasburg. Bravo...BTW, what are the lottery numbers while you are at it?

Nats fan?:D

Mattso3000
10-12-2012, 11:37 PM
:r tell us how you really feel. Don't hold back this time.

ChicagoWhiteSox
10-12-2012, 11:42 PM
This thread has been about as stupid as it gets, imo. I cannot wait for all of the "experts" to "educate" everyone on how shutting the kid down "cost" them. Where are the ****ing Rolaids? I am sure everyone who disagrees with what they did is a "medical expert" that lends something more than a Holiday Inn Express point of view. :rolleyes: The closer gives up four runs in the 9th to hand the Cards the game. Yup, blame the series on no Strasburg. Bravo...BTW, what are the lottery numbers while you are at it?

I don't know if anyone can directly correlate the series loss because of Strasburg, and I don't blame it on him, but does that really matter? Does it change the fact that it is still stupid the way the Nats handled the kid? I don't think it does.

icehog3
10-12-2012, 11:58 PM
This thread has been about as stupid as it gets, imo. I cannot wait for all of the "experts" to "educate" everyone on how shutting the kid down "cost" them. Where are the ****ing Rolaids? I am sure everyone who disagrees with what they did is a "medical expert" that lends something more than a Holiday Inn Express point of view. :rolleyes: The closer gives up four runs in the 9th to hand the Cards the game. Yup, blame the series on no Strasburg. Bravo...BTW, what are the lottery numbers while you are at it?

Color me stupid I guess, Davey-Boy. :rolleyes:

Bigwaved
10-13-2012, 12:06 AM
I don't know if anyone can directly correlate the series loss because of Strasburg, and I don't blame it on him, but does that really matter? Does it change the fact that it is still stupid the way the Nats handled the kid? I don't think it does.

No, you cannot. Fact? Stupid? Do you know what a fact is? Or are you just using it loosely here? What seems stupid in life to me is when someone speaks about something they know very little about like they are an expert. You seem to be doing right about now. If not, here is you chance to speak to your expertise on the subject. Lay out your facts that back up your claim of how they mishandled the guy. Do not forget to provide your qualifications on the subject of TJ surgery recovery times, how much stress you should put on the replacement UCL, specifically for younger individuals and the long term impact on them. I will not hold my breath waiting for these facts.

icehog3
10-13-2012, 12:21 AM
Having a cigar and a de-caf. :)

ChicagoWhiteSox
10-13-2012, 12:27 AM
No, you cannot. Fact? Stupid? Do you know what a fact is? Or are you just using it loosely here? What seems stupid in life to me is when someone speaks about something they know very little about like they are an expert. You seem to be doing right about now. If not, here is you chance to speak to your expertise on the subject. Lay out your facts that back up your claim of how they mishandled the guy. Do not forget to provide your qualifications on the subject of TJ surgery recovery times, how much stress you should put on the replacement UCL, specifically for younger individuals and the long term impact on them. I will not hold my breath waiting for these facts.

This is an interesting response. Before I form my reply, I'm curious what you think the reason was for the Nats shutting him down?

Bigwaved
10-13-2012, 12:29 AM
Color me stupid I guess, Davey-Boy. :rolleyes:

The the thread is stupid not from your original question. i did not say that, either. No, it turned stupid when hindsight became the driver of expert opinion. In my opinion, it is a result of the media creating an issue out of a non-issue to sell a story. I distinctly remember how up in arms everyone was when they shut down Zimmermann last year using the same reasoning. :rolleyes: From Spring Training, the team stated what the plan was. It wasn't confusing, bad planning or stupid, as described. The front office weighed out all of the medical data and made a choice to do what they thought will benefit the team in the long run. The rebuilding plan has been to target the 2013 season for quite a while. This year's version played above all expectations. To think it is a one time chance for this team to play in the playoffs is trending towards ludicrous, imo.

Bigwaved
10-13-2012, 12:38 AM
This is an interesting response. Before I form my reply, I'm curious what you think the reason was for the Nats shutting him down?I have no doubt you would find it interesting. They based it off the best medical data they had. i said that earlier in the thread. It was not some secret to how they arrived at this decision with the pitchers they control who have had this surgery. They wil do it with Giolito, too.

ChicagoWhiteSox
10-13-2012, 12:48 AM
I have no doubt you would find it interesting. They based it off the best medical data they had. i said that earlier in the thread. It was not some secret to how they arrived at this decision with the pitchers they control who have had this surgery. They wil do it with Giolito, too.

Best medical data of what? I don't like to assume things, but I will here because you aren't picking up what I'm throwing down:D You agree the Nats shut golden boy down because of his TJ surgery and that they don't want to risk post TJ surgery injury based off of "medical data"? I just want to get this clear before I form my response to your post above.

icehog3
10-13-2012, 12:58 AM
My original point was this, Dave....The Nats decided to limit his innings...not his appearances or pitch count. Once it became apparent that the Nats were likely going to make the post season, and since it was an inning count they were using, why not reduce his innings pitched per appearance, or have him skip a couple starts, in order to leave his inning count with some room to spare for the postseason?

Bigwaved
10-13-2012, 01:06 AM
Best medical data of what? I don't like to assume things, but I will here because you aren't picking up what I'm throwing down:D You agree the Nats shut golden boy down because of his TJ surgery and that they don't want to risk post TJ surgery injury based off of "medical data"? I just want to get this clear before I form my response to your post above.
If I am not picking up what you are throwing down, then spill it. Quit playing these reindeer games. If you want me change it to medical advice, then fine. Happy now? Can you "form" your response now? I don't really don't want to make the time for more of your bs. It is up to you to produce the credentials you posses to make you expert enough to determine how "stupid" everyone is who involved in the decision to limit his innings, just as they did with Zimmermann the year earlier. I am all ears. Where are your facts? Golden boy? You are going to have to try harder, spanky.

icehog3
10-13-2012, 01:11 AM
Let's argue opinions and/or facts, Men, and stop making this personal. :2

icehog3
10-13-2012, 01:13 AM
Ya know what? I am the O.P. for this thread, and I am making a request of the ToE to shut it down, since it is getting to a place we don't do at CA,

Oh yeah, I am a ToE too, so this thread is done.

icehog3
10-13-2012, 01:18 AM
And it's a f*cking shame too, because I was enjoying the discourse and differing thoughts and opinions until it went South and was made personal.

I am not an expert on cigars, but I freely give my opinion. I'd hate to thnk I'd get jumped because I have an opinion despite not being an expert.