Does this seem right to you?

[irratebass]

My friend went to a local B&M because I received an email and told him that some new sticks were in.

He went and picked up a few for me and I asked him how much they were his response was "Very expensive, but very yummy."

So, again I asked him how much and his response was "Between $15-$30!!!" I couldn't believe this, so I went online and found 2 of these cigars pictured below, the Octoberfest and La Duena for $7.50-$8.75

This really upsets me that this B&M would hike the price up an extra $7-$14.....I heard about taxes, but c'mon......I want to support this business, but if I can get them for WAY less online why bother? Any feedback??

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d64/irratebass/Cigars/B992D8F5-B3AE-4188-9DC1-6EDC8FC49698-885-00000082ABA7B63D.jpg

[Ogre]

Depending on where your friend is, that may be right. Some states like New York have a 70% tobacco tax. There is also the possibility of additional mark-up. We have a shop here that charges on average $1-$2 above retail. Why you ask, "Because We Can", is the response I got when asked.

[markem]

The nice thing about a free country is that you can take your business elsewhere. It's a hard lesson, but I never ask someone to buy sticks for me unless I know what it will cost.

[Ismith75]

That seems to be in the ballpark for the PG's.

[irratebass]

Depending on where your friend is, that may be right. Some states like New York have a 70% tobacco tax. There is also the possibility of additional mark-up. We have a shop here that charges on average $1-$2 above retail. Why you ask, "Because We Can", is the response I got when asked.

It was Alan Larry, we are both in Indiana and I just couldn't make it so he went instead.

[maninblack]

Ouch. Lesson learned.

[poriggity]

Being from the land of taxes, aka California... I have succombed to pretty much ordering all my cigars online.... Not to mention, the only decent cigar shop with a lounge in the area is no longer in business. There is a decent cigar shop near my work, but there is no lounge, and no smoking in the shop. I will occasionally pick up some smokes from there, but they are $$$. Online is where it's at.
Scott

[Zane]

It was Alan Larry, we are both in Indiana and I just couldn't make it so he went instead.


I am on the north side of Indy and we have 2 local B&M's here. I find usually a 2 to 3 dollar markup at one and a 4 to 5 at the other compared to online. And that is before taxes......

[oooo35980]

There is a B&M here that marks up LPs and other semi-htf sticks 100% or more. In Alabama where taxes aren't bad at all, it's just gouging. That same place also sells wine at damn near restaurant prices. Some proprieters will charge whatever they can get people to pay.

They might even need to charge such high prices to pay rent, if people who know cigars don't come to your store because the prices are stupid high then your business will rely on the odd curious newby than comes in and doesn't know what cigars are worth. So if your prices are too high to start with and run all the customers away, then prices just have to keep going up, next thing you know you're selling LP9s for $25.00

That's my theory, anyway.

[MedicCook]

You also have to take into account that the online big boxes are buying the cigars in larger quantities than the local B&M so the online places buy cheaper and sell cheaper. It's just like Wal*Mart coming into your neighborhood and putting the local family owned shop out of business.

[area51]

This is my take on all this. Take it for what it's worth. I love my B&M, great place run by a great guy. The thing is he is a little overpriced compared to online vendors. That is because of state taxes and such. I understand that. What I do however is if he has a stick I have yet to try, I will pick up 1 or 2 just to support him. I will then buy a box online if I truly like it. To each their own however.

[jdakine]

There is one B&M on Maui and no smoking in the shop. There about a handfull or less on Oahu and the tobacco tax is 50% in Hawaii. I always travel with my own cigars, but when visiting a B&M, I will always purchase a couple of cigars to support their business.

I don't have to buy the most expensive cigar in the shop, but it must be nice to have them around, to sit and light up a smoke and enjoy the moment. Just saying.......

[irratebass]

I am on the north side of Indy and we have 2 local B&M's here. I find usually a 2 to 3 dollar markup at one and a 4 to 5 at the other compared to online. And that is before taxes......

This was at Indy Cigar Bar

You also have to take into account that the online big boxes are buying the cigars in larger quantities than the local B&M so the online places buy cheaper and sell cheaper. It's just like Wal*Mart coming into your neighborhood and putting the local family owned shop out of business.

This is exactly why I want to support my local B&M's

This is my take on all this. Take it for what it's worth. I love my B&M, great place run by a great guy. The thing is he is a little overpriced compared to online vendors. That is because of state taxes and such. I understand that. What I do however is if he has a stick I have yet to try, I will pick up 1 or 2 just to support him. I will then buy a box online if I truly like it. To each their own however.

Now this I didn't think about, nice strategy.

[drevim]

Down here in Evansville, IN, we have a couple of pretty decent B&Ms. But one is quite a bit better. I've personally witnessed an employee from the second shop come into the better one, purchase a box, then go back to their shop and mark them up $4-5 a stick.

Pretty much have stopped visiting shop #2.

[kelmac07]

I'm with the majority here. I really do want to support my local B&M, so I stop in periodically to pick up a few sticks (new releases I want to try) and if I enjoy them, I'll buy a box online. Best time to buy boxes from a B&M are during cigar events. While I don't like the mark up...fully understand it. Now for the folks in the high tax states...I feel for ya brothers.

[Subvet642]

I think I'm also in the majority here. The B&M in my neighborhood has good prices and sells at MSRP, even Opus, but if a B&M decides to mark-up their prices to ridiculous levels, then why should I (or anyone else) support them? Customer loyalty isn't automatic, nor should it be, but it must be reciprocal; a business gets my loyalty when they earn it.

[Zane]

This was at Indy Cigar Bar.

Well. That's the issue heh. I have only been there a few times but since its not a typical B&M its beyond marke

[CigarSquid]

Being from the land of taxes, aka California... I have succombed to pretty much ordering all my cigars online.... Not to mention, the only decent cigar shop with a lounge in the area is no longer in business. There is a decent cigar shop near my work, but there is no lounge, and no smoking in the shop. I will occasionally pick up some smokes from there, but they are $$$. Online is where it's at.
Scott

Pretty much my deal here in Southern Oregon. Very rarely do I buy local.. If I can get a free shipping(which happens 99.99% of the time) it is always cheaper.

Sucks not to buy local, but in an effort to help them, I need to help myself save money as well.

[mosesbotbol]

How are there prices on cigars you are familiar with? Maybe he had to pay a premium to get them, hence the high price? Maybe the high price is push customers to another cigar instead?

[irratebass]

Down here in Evansville, IN, we have a couple of pretty decent B&Ms. But one is quite a bit better. I've personally witnessed an employee from the second shop come into the better one, purchase a box, then go back to their shop and mark them up $4-5 a stick.

Pretty much have stopped visiting shop #2.

Wow! That's a D1ick move for sure.

[Remo]

Utah is like 400 % tax...no local buying for me :td

[replicant_argent]

Down here in Evansville, IN, we have a couple of pretty decent B&Ms. But one is quite a bit better. I've personally witnessed an employee from the second shop come into the better one, purchase a box, then go back to their shop and mark them up $4-5 a stick.

Pretty much have stopped visiting shop #2.

Wow! That's a D1ick move for sure.

So, the first shop owner is happy, he sold cigars for his price.
The second shop is purchasing a product, and putting capital into a product he may or may not sell, taking the risk that he can indeed sell them for the higher price to make a (fairly small) retail profit to drive his business. He is also expanding his inventory to serve his customer base at a cost that is most likely higher than what may have been normal wholesale pricing (if there is a licensing or preferred vendor pricing structure.)
The customer (any customer at any shop) has the choice to buy or not buy at any price.

And the "D1ck" move is exactly what?

[czerbe]

I always try and buy local but for larger quanities I buy online its just the was it is.. Although if you guys want to support a B&M and not shop at a Super Store there are a couple out there that have really good pricing and will ship to your door, Buckhead Cigar in Atlanta, and Burns in TN two great places I buy smokes from online that are B&M

[irratebass]

So, the first shop owner is happy, he sold cigars for his price.
The second shop is purchasing a product, and putting capital into a product he may or may not sell, taking the risk that he can indeed sell them for the higher price to make a (fairly small) retail profit to drive his business. He is also expanding his inventory to serve his customer base at a cost that is most likely higher than what may have been normal wholesale pricing (if there is a licensing or preferred vendor pricing structure.)
The customer (any customer at any shop) has the choice to buy or not buy at any price.

And the "D1ck" move is exactly what?

The d1ck move I was referring to was shop #2 raising the price higher than shop #1.

You explained it all in your above message, and you are right shop #2 has a right to do that and we as consumers have the right not to shop there.

[bobarian]

The d1ck move I was referring to was shop #2 raising the price higher than shop #1.

You explained it all in your above message, and you are right shop #2 has a right to do that and we as consumers have the right not to shop there.

That's absolutely ridiculous. You know nothing about the second shop. He may have higher rent and overhead. He had to pay sales tax on his purchase and pay the employee to go and buy the box. Maybe his customers dont like the first shop and are willing to pay extra. :2

[N2 GOLD]

I order about 95% of my stuff online. The main reason is because of the DEALS one can get via online shopping. From time to time I do walk-in to B&M's but to see what they have in stock & so check out the price range they offer. I'll buy loose sticks & give myself a $$ limit but never buy a full box with the retail mark-up. I look for new sticks to try which is why I go the my local shops. But, for boxes/bulk online has the best deals. IMO I think most B&M's have extreme pricing. Which is why I limit my spending at B&M's.

[CigarNut]

I order about 95% of my stuff online. The main reason is because of the DEALS one can get via online shopping. From time to time I do walk-in to B&M's but to see what they have in stock & so check out the price range they offer. I'll buy loose sticks & give myself a $$ limit but never buy a full box with the retail mark-up. I look for new sticks to try which is why I go the my local shops. But, for boxes/bulk online has the best deals. IMO I think most B&M's have extreme pricing. Which is why I limit my spending at B&M's.The catch with this is that if you do not support your local B&M's then they will disappear.

I buy stuff online but I also buy stuff from my local shops as well -- it costs a little more, but I hope it pays off for me (and the B&M's) in the long run. Having said that our local ZB&M's may have higher pricess (due to higher costs) but none of them are gouging us...

[Mattso3000]

The catch with this is that if you do not support your local B&M's then they will disappear.


My patio is below zero for half the year...I need that place to go and I buy whatever I can afford to from the local B&M as well as keeping a membership there. Doesn't hurt that it's a damn fine place to go have a smoke.

[N2 GOLD]

The catch with this is that if you do not support your local B&M's then they will disappear.

I buy stuff online but I also buy stuff from my local shops as well -- it costs a little more, but I hope it pays off for me (and the B&M's) in the long run. Having said that our local ZB&M's may have higher pricess (due to higher costs) but none of them are gouging us...

I'm all for the B&M's making money. But, when they price their inventory above and beyond M.S.R.P. well thats just not my cup of tea. I understand every business whats to make $$ I get it. I also love the fact that I can choose to but or not to buy. I'm not saying that all B&M's do this but the ones who do just make it harder for the rest of them. I'm just saying IMO...

[The Poet]

Perhaps this true story will shed some light on some of the questions above . . . and perhaps not.

Remember those Webkins things, those "beanie baby"-type stuffed toys with the web code that let kids go online to adopt and interact with the characters? They became a redhot fad for a time. Well, a woman who'd just taken over a long-established shop here in town wanted to get into this fad, but could not find a wholesale supplier of these toys that still had them in stock. So she went online to purchase them, thus to be able to offer them to her potential customers. This meant that, instead of paying a few dollars for them, then marking them up to the "normal" retail of $8-$12, she was purchasing many of the most-popular characters for $25-$30, then turning around and selling (or trying to sell them) for $50-$60 each. A man from a neighboring town came in with his little girl, who "just had to have" one particular of these, but when the father saw the price he flipped out about the gouging the woman was attempting . . . to the point where he actually ended up in jail for threatening the woman's life.

Now, she was an idiot for thinking her idea of buying merchandise at inflated prices was a proper business plan. The father was triply an idiot for allowing his daughter to wrap him about his finger so completely, for getting so angry at the woman for charging what she wished for something noboby actually needed anyway, and mainly for letting his mouth write his @$$ a ticket to the pokey. And the little girl? Well, she at least had the excuse of youth for her idiocy.

A "hot" cigar which a local B&M cannot easily acquire may have put this owner into the same situation. Does that make him dishonest? No, not if his aim is to satisfy his customer's demands. Does that make him foolish? No, not if he manages to sell the product at an inflated price. Does that make him in danger? In this day and age, perhaps so.

[drevim]

That's absolutely ridiculous. You know nothing about the second shop. He may have higher rent and overhead. He had to pay sales tax on his purchase and pay the employee to go and buy the box. Maybe his customers dont like the first shop and are willing to pay extra. :2

While I, and no one except the owners, can speak of overhead costs. This may very well be true. I wasn't passing judgement on either shop. The newer shop (#1 in the post) seems to have a much larger selection, and as was stated, made their asking price for the box.

#2 has been around for a much longer time, and while it does have a decent selection, has always had far more of a mark up than the other 4 or 5 shops in town. May be that they were able to do this prior to any competition. May be that they have the overhead issue. They do a steady business, but seemed to be mostly regulars when I was going there.

The only point I was trying to make, is that markups can happen in many ways.

[bobarian]

While I, and no one except the owners, can speak of overhead costs. This may very well be true. I wasn't passing judgement on either shop. The newer shop (#1 in the post) seems to have a much larger selection, and as was stated, made their asking price for the box.

#2 has been around for a much longer time, and while it does have a decent selection, has always had far more of a mark up than the other 4 or 5 shops in town. May be that they were able to do this prior to any competition. May be that they have the overhead issue. They do a steady business, but seemed to be mostly regulars when I was going there.

The only point I was trying to make, is that markups can happen in many ways.

I must have missed where I was commenting on your post. :sh

[Cav22]

I know when I worked at a cigar shop the price was based on taxes plus a slight markup for profit. As the taxes kept going up the owner would lower the profit margin to keep the customers from paying to high of a price. Online you can get away with lower prices because you dont have to pay the same tax as you would at a retail shop.

[drevim]

I must have missed where I was commenting on your post. :sh

It was a comment of a comment of my post. I probably should have multi-quoted to connect the chain. No worries, just wanted to clarify my point.

[pnoon]

It was a comment of a comment of my post. I probably should have multi-quoted to connect the chain. No worries, just wanted to clarify my point.

Just get your sorry a$$ to San Diego.

:hf

[Mr. Ed]

The local B&M i deal with is quite literally a home away from home. It's a real inviting, calm, relaxed lounge that used to be an old house. It feels like you're heading over a buddy's place for a smoke. I'll buy a box every couple of months and rented out a locker to support him. I know I'm taking a hit on the box price vs what I can purchase online, but that's a hit I'm willing to take for using his amenities. (Plus it's in PA, so there's no cigar tax!:noon)

As for the cigar prices. The PGs are a very pricey stick. Not surprised there. As for the Pete Johnson stuff, if he's not an authorized Tat retailer he's probably purchasing them from a distributor or another shop and is already paying a premium for that. Idk if that's the case or not, but like others have said: cigar tax.

[bobarian]

Just get your sorry a$$ to San Diego.

:hf

:tu

[forgop]

We have a shop here that charges on average $1-$2 above retail. Why you ask, "Because We Can", is the response I got when asked.

I'd quickly tell him that you'll buy them cheaper online from now on "because you can".

[Ranger_B]

I would buy more from my B&M if he would update his selection with more of the "boutique" lines. But when it comes to padrons, fuentes, ashtons I go to him. I also grab all my pipe tobacco from my local shop. The owner is a great guy and prices very fairly he just doesnt have to space and has an old clientele that stick to the more traditional brands that take up a ton of space in his small humidor. So newer stuff I get online and then my regular smokes I get from him.

[dave]

I don't frequent B&M's often, but when I do go into one (any one), I always buy at least one cigar. I think they serve a purpose and I like to support them (a little anyway.)

I agree completely with R. Agent.
I really cannot understand anybody getting upset over pricing at any one shop. Short of wide-spread collusion, I say let the market do its thing. I, and the other patrons, will judge with our wallets.

[irratebass]

I don't frequent B&M's often, but when I do go into one (any one), I always buy at least one cigar. I think they serve a purpose and I like to support them (a little anyway.)

I agree completely with R. Agent.
I really cannot understand anybody getting upset over pricing at any one shop. Short of wide-spread collusion, I say let the market do its thing. I, and the other patrons, will judge with our wallets.

I only got upset because of the markup on the Quesada and La Duena's especially after I found out how much they can be had for online, + this is the only B&M locally that is carrying them...I want to support them, but not at those prices...that's the bottom line.

[poker]

Personally, if the cigar shop I plan to visit has a lounge that I will use while there, I will purchase a cigar from them to support them. If I do not plan on using their lounge at all, I have no obligation to support them if I feel their prices are out of line.

True story:

Just happened not 15 minutes ago. Went to grab a sandwich at Subway here in Newbury Park and noticed there was a new B&M tobacco shop (Tobacco Royale) in the same strip mall. Walked in just to take a look around as its been a while since I stepped into a B&M.
Fuente Short Stories @ 8.95 a pop...not too out of line for SoCal I guess, when my eyes locked onto a full intact box of Fuente Fuente Opus X's. No price on the cigars.

I walk out and ask how much just out of curiousity.
He says "50"
I say "Excuse me?"
He says "50"
I say "each?"
He says "yes, 50 ea"
I say "seriously?"
He says "how much you normally pay?"
I say quietly to myself "holy crap"
He says "I give you discount if you buy whole box"
I quietly exit as he tries to call his boss to get a box discount.

Holy cow, I thought I was Vegas for a minute.

[mosesbotbol]

You can ask the B&M owner if he'll cut you a break on a box and mention where you saw them and for how much. I know of instances where I saw cigars much cheaper than the B&M and their response was "Can you get me some too, that's as cheap as I paid".

[Boz]

This is my take on all this. Take it for what it's worth. I love my B&M, great place run by a great guy. The thing is he is a little overpriced compared to online vendors. That is because of state taxes and such. I understand that. What I do however is if he has a stick I have yet to try, I will pick up 1 or 2 just to support him. I will then buy a box online if I truly like it. To each their own however.


Exactly what I do. I also try and make it to the events he puts on.

[neoflex]

I only got upset because of the markup on the Quesada and La Duena's especially after I found out how much they can be had for online, + this is the only B&M locally that is carrying them...I want to support them, but not at those prices...that's the bottom line.

Even at a local level those prices are high for both those sticks! :2

[ninjavanish]

I feel like you guys may be forgetting that for every price hound out there, there's some guy who knows no better or has enough money that he doesn't care about the price and/or is willing to pay whatever price to get whatever it is that he wants.

I mean, I worked in retail for a long time. People would come everyday and say "I can get these for almost half as much online." The answer was always, "Then sir, I believe you may be in the wrong place." No offense meant to those who are constantly on the hunt for the best prices, but you must recognize that you're not the only clients a store may have. I also had guys come in nearly everyday and say "I want a box of the most expensive cigar you've got." Or, "I want a box of whatever you recommend is good, don't care about the pricing as long as you say it's good." And would gladly pay it without blinking an eye.

While it's nice to fantasize about the customer always being right, that's in regards to customer service. Not pricing. Sorry to say, but when it comes to keeping the doors open and making a profit, that's a decision that the manager/owner must weigh. The truth of the matter is you have no idea what their overhead/clientele demographic/COG's/ROI/Market Position/etc/etc are and therefore telling someone how to price their cigars is comparable to telling them how to run their business. Which, quite frankly, is impolite at best, unless you have some special relationship with the manager/owner which would allow such a discussion to take place in earnest.

This is not to say that you (the consumer) have no recourse against pricing that doesn't suit you. You can simply not purchase and walk away and say "You know, I don't think the pricing is right in here for me, but thank you anyway." That's not accusatory or inflamatory, and you might be suprised how quickly some sales associates would jump to say "well, that's something we could remedy." You're also much more likely to get a deal from someone if you're not coming to them with a complaint about their pricing. And trying to grind a deal out of someone is probably going to be met with flat out "Can't do that. Or, My manager isn't here to approve a deal like that right now."

The thing is, you must know by now (Because it's not like this has happened overnight), the internet and catalog business will forever demolish Brick and Mortar pricing unless something drastic happens.

If you don't want to purchase from a B&M... Just don't. There's someone else who will.

[splattttttt]

I live just a stone's throw from New Hampshire, where there is NO sales tax, except for dining. This new B&M that opened just a few weeks ago is looking to compete against a large veteran and will sell to me for what I pay on line as long as I make up the difference that I pay for shipping. That was what I actually proposed and they are good with it.

[irratebass]

I want to set the record straight and make a formal apology.....I just received the sticks on Saturday, I smoked 1 Octoberfest and put the others in my herfador without really eyeballing them.

This morning I pulled out the La Duena and noticed the price tag on the cello.....$8.95 I can live with this, because that's what I have found them on line for. so I APOLOGIZE to that B&M and the sticks that were $15-$30 must have been the PG's.

I still do not know how much the Octoberfests were since they didn't have cello.

[CigarNut]

You could have just called the B&M and asked their prices. That would save a lot of time and aggravation for all... Just my :2

[RWhisenand]

Being that I live in BFE, I have only gotten to go to one real B&M, I thought his prices were reasonable and I gladly left with a few cigars I had not tried before. When I get a chance to get back to Carson City I plan on making a stop in to the little cigar bar we found by accident.


I feel that many B&M's gouge just because they can sell to the impulse buyer who wants a cigar that night with his buddies, but dose not own his own humidore. Just an observation from someone who lives way outside the city!

[Zane]

Also this was a cigar bar. Only one In the City so no competition.

[dwoodward]

You're all lucky compared to our B&M... I don't dare support them. They mark everything up 2-3x the cost of the sticks. And it's not taxes. From what I have heard the prices years back were great. But the owner decided his main clientele were the people that didn't really care what the cost of a stick was and would pay for the sticks no matter what, so they hiked up the prices to wherever they could keep selling sticks.

It's all good business, but bad for the average joe like myself.

[DaBear]

I feel like you guys may be forgetting that for every price hound out there, there's some guy who knows no better or has enough money that he doesn't care about the price and/or is willing to pay whatever price to get whatever it is that he wants.

I mean, I worked in retail for a long time. People would come everyday and say "I can get these for almost half as much online." The answer was always, "Then sir, I believe you may be in the wrong place." No offense meant to those who are constantly on the hunt for the best prices, but you must recognize that you're not the only clients a store may have. I also had guys come in nearly everyday and say "I want a box of the most expensive cigar you've got." Or, "I want a box of whatever you recommend is good, don't care about the pricing as long as you say it's good." And would gladly pay it without blinking an eye.

While it's nice to fantasize about the customer always being right, that's in regards to customer service. Not pricing. Sorry to say, but when it comes to keeping the doors open and making a profit, that's a decision that the manager/owner must weigh. The truth of the matter is you have no idea what their overhead/clientele demographic/COG's/ROI/Market Position/etc/etc are and therefore telling someone how to price their cigars is comparable to telling them how to run their business. Which, quite frankly, is impolite at best, unless you have some special relationship with the manager/owner which would allow such a discussion to take place in earnest.

This is not to say that you (the consumer) have no recourse against pricing that doesn't suit you. You can simply not purchase and walk away and say "You know, I don't think the pricing is right in here for me, but thank you anyway." That's not accusatory or inflamatory, and you might be suprised how quickly some sales associates would jump to say "well, that's something we could remedy." You're also much more likely to get a deal from someone if you're not coming to them with a complaint about their pricing. And trying to grind a deal out of someone is probably going to be met with flat out "Can't do that. Or, My manager isn't here to approve a deal like that right now."

The thing is, you must know by now (Because it's not like this has happened overnight), the internet and catalog business will forever demolish Brick and Mortar pricing unless something drastic happens.

If you don't want to purchase from a B&M... Just don't. There's someone else who will.

:tpd:

Many people forget that B&Ms have significantly higher operating costs, plus a higher rate for cigars than online vendors(factory direct pricing, as well as bulk deals). Not to mention taxes. It comes off as just flat out rude and pompous to straight up say to someone "Well I can get this much cheaper online!" to a worker in a B&M, who, more often than not, has no control over the pricing.

[Geerawkz]

First off irratebass good to see you here I think we are instagram buddies and always great to see a familiar face.

I follow area51's strategy for the most part, I love supporting my local shop when I can despite the fierce competitive prices tat can be found online and from that damned site cbid haha. Although with the current economy and cosntant support I've given to my local shop, he sometimes more often then not will match a lower price I've found to keep most of his loyal customers happy and continually buying from him. Great way to keep his repeat customers coming in!